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THEFUTURE
07-06-2005, 07:11 PM
alright this isnt an immediate help for this year, but it is for next year... Randy McMichael, his contract runs out after this year, if the Dolphins don't wrap him up, i say we throw out whatever we can for him, i think he could be a solution to our problems, and we would be able to dump Billy Miller or Bruener or Joppru (i like him, but its up to CC). this guy is legit, and could be even better once he gets out of the hell that is miami

cred
07-06-2005, 07:23 PM
I like it, the guy is good...........but we have to haver billy he is a great reciever for us.He just is bad at everything else.
Happy Birthday to my boy Keith!


No way we keep Miller if in fact we would be able to get Randy McMichael. If this were to happen we should dump both Miller and Bruener, but keep Joppru. There is no way Joppru could go down for a 4th straight season. With Joppru and McMichael, that would be an outstanding combination, and if Joppru doesn't work out than we could drop him after that year is over because he would be an UFA.

texasguy346
07-06-2005, 07:25 PM
There's a few problems with that. Randy hasn't threatened to hold out, and in fact I believe its been mentioned that he doesn't plan on missing any team activities this offseason in hopes that the Dolphins will pay him more along the lines of a TE of his caliber when its time to start contract negotiations. That indicates to me that he's pretty content in Miami. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see him in a Texans uniform, but its alot like the Bubba Franks thing. Both guys seem pretty happy with their current teams despite their contract. Only way I could see him even entertaining the idea is if the Texans through tons of cash his way (even more than the other NFL teams desperate for a TE). That's assuming Miami's front office some how makes a huge blunder and lets their #2 receiving threat walk which isn't likely.

THEFUTURE
07-06-2005, 08:39 PM
There's a few problems with that. Randy hasn't threatened to hold out, and in fact I believe its been mentioned that he doesn't plan on missing any team activities this offseason in hopes that the Dolphins will pay him more along the lines of a TE of his caliber when its time to start contract negotiations. That indicates to me that he's pretty content in Miami. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see him in a Texans uniform, but its alot like the Bubba Franks thing. Both guys seem pretty happy with their current teams despite their contract. Only way I could see him even entertaining the idea is if the Texans through tons of cash his way (even more than the other NFL teams desperate for a TE). That's assuming Miami's front office some how makes a huge blunder and lets their #2 receiving threat walk which isn't likely.
yeah im just saying that if he does somehow make it to free agency, he would be a great asset, plus lets not forget who his agent is, drew rosenhaus... so if drew wants the money, the texans will probably spend more than any other team, to find a solution for one of their few holes

cred
07-06-2005, 09:06 PM
I am really glad you don't run a francise. How many people thought that there was NO way Jop would hurt himself this year.

Chances are that this deal would never go thru anyway, but one can only wish. Now if joppru was to go down again (what could be the chances of this actually happening) and we did have Randy McMichael, it still would be an upgrade over everybody that we have now anyway. Besides what would we gain in cap space with losing Miller and Bruener.

CAbills
07-06-2005, 09:35 PM
alright this isnt an immediate help for this year, but it is for next year... Randy McMichael, his contract runs out after this year, if the Dolphins don't wrap him up, i say we throw out whatever we can for him, i think he could be a solution to our problems, and we would be able to dump Billy Miller or Bruener or Joppru (i like him, but its up to CC). this guy is legit, and could be even better once he gets out of the hell that is miami

I highly doubt the dolphins lets him go. He is young, I think only 26 and easily the best TE in the division. I would be very surprised is they let one of their key components on offense go. Especially with the QB situation they need all the help they can get.

DRIFTAWAY
07-06-2005, 10:17 PM
i would trade billy miller mark bruiner joppru and marcellus rivers and a 3rd round pick for Randy Mcmichael.

texasguy346
07-06-2005, 10:26 PM
yeah im just saying that if he does somehow make it to free agency, he would be a great asset, plus lets not forget who his agent is, drew rosenhaus... so if drew wants the money, the texans will probably spend more than any other team, to find a solution for one of their few holes

It all depends. The Cardinals are set to have an UDFA TE starting for them this season. I would imagine that Green would definately pursue Randy pretty hard if he were to somehow come available. I just don't want to see CC throwing way too much cash at one player just because another team is jacking up the price. I really wouldn't expect him to do so either. Really just way to many 'what ifs' that surround this situation, and it's probably closer to a dream scenario than anything else.

Hervoyel
07-07-2005, 10:26 AM
I am really glad you don't run a francise. How many people thought that there was NO way Jop would hurt himself this year.


He's right though. Look Joppru doesn't cost that much at this point. He's "playing", for lack of better term since he hasn't actually played a down for the Texans, under his rookie contract. Joppru gets one more chance, no doubt about it. After that I think his spot is gone if he makes it four straight years.

I'd think simply out of morbid curiosity the Texans keep him around another year. They've already lost the majority of the money they're going to lose on him. What's left doesn't amount to much really. I myself am very curious to see if it's possible for someone to go through their entire rookie contract without being healthy for a single game. I hope it's not possible.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
07-07-2005, 12:35 PM
Joppru gets one more chance, no doubt about it. After that I think his spot is gone if he makes it four straight years.

Is his season over... do they have an updates?

Vinny
07-07-2005, 12:36 PM
It was over when he tore his ACL

Vambo, the Marble Eye
07-07-2005, 12:44 PM
Understood... but it happened in mini-camp so is it a 12 month thing or is he going to be available for post season?

Additionally what is Miller’s and Bruener's contract status? When do they become UFA?

…I ask because I think our existing tight end position is really one-dimensional and I have no confidence that Miller is learning how to block under Bruener's tutelage or Bruener is getting better at catching the ball.

Vinny
07-07-2005, 02:27 PM
Most of his money is already paid via his signing bonus. His salary is not so much that you would need to cut him right now just to have someone else pick him up for next season.

jacquescas
07-07-2005, 02:43 PM
at this point its worth more to keep him than cut him, we are already under the cap by a decent chunk, we dont need more cap room.

jr0ck
07-07-2005, 03:06 PM
even though it's still hard to believe that it's three in a row for good 'ol joppy boy, imagine the chip on his shoulder if and when he gets healthy. if he's been working hard for three years to play pro ball, i definately see him fully recovering from the bum ACL. then that leads us to this time next year, where we find out if his spirit has been officially borken and he will only have amounted to a shell of his former potential...but let's hope for the former and not the latter. either way, we will only know if he's a texan.

bckey
07-07-2005, 10:37 PM
Joppru may play next year and not be worth a darn. How many times have we seen a good player in college stink up the pros. And we are talking about one that hasn't played football for 3 years by the time he gets another shot and has never played an nfl down. I'm all for giving him another shot next year but I do think we need to sign a very good proven te. TE has been a weak link on the Texans since our beginning.

ATX
07-08-2005, 05:54 AM
so who are the top 5 all around TEs?

mexican_texan
07-08-2005, 10:59 AM
so who are the top 5 all around TEs?

1) Tony Gonzalez
2) Shannon Sharpe
3) Ozzie Newsome
4) Mike Ditka
5) Mike Vrabel :confused:

mexican_texan
07-08-2005, 11:13 AM
what about chad lewis? he is a free agent, the eagles don't seem interested, and carr could use a veteran that worked with a great pocket prescence QB in Don-nabb. then again, i don't think the texans want 6 TE's.

El Tejano
07-08-2005, 11:35 AM
I think Chad Lewis also injured himself pretty good in the NFC championship game so he might be damaged goods.

throwANDREtheBALL
07-08-2005, 01:03 PM
yeah, last reported, he's nicked up pretty good...........errrr bad.

mexican_texan
07-08-2005, 01:05 PM
He could help David's pocket prescence. Last time I saw him, it was on Sportscenter teaching chinese kids how to throw footballs. They looked like they could start for the bears...

texasguy346
07-08-2005, 01:21 PM
I'm pretty sure Lewis was considering retirement. I think it's doubtful that he'll play anywhere this season.

z0rpAn
07-08-2005, 01:26 PM
I highly doubt the dolphins lets him go. He is young, I think only 26 and easily the best TE in the division. I would be very surprised is they let one of their key components on offense go. Especially with the QB situation they need all the help they can get.
We could always trade Ragone for him :)

mexican_texan
07-08-2005, 02:37 PM
I'm pretty sure Lewis was considering retirement. I think it's doubtful that he'll play anywhere this season.

Well, just like Bubba from the Bay, he seems only interested in rejoining his former team. Anyway, i think Rogane...err....Ragone should be traded this month, it doesn't seem his stock will be higher for a while. And I'd like to take this chance to remind everyone that Tony Gonzalez is entering a contract year.

infantrycak
07-08-2005, 03:06 PM
And I'd like to take this chance to remind everyone that Tony Gonzalez is entering a contract year.

Gonzalez signed a 7 year contract with the Chiefs in 2002.

BringItOn
07-08-2005, 04:10 PM
There is no way Joppru could go down for a 4th straight season.

Don't say things like that! Joppru may read these boards and take your statement as some kind of bizarre challenge.

mexican_texan
07-08-2005, 05:29 PM
Gonzalez signed a 7 year contract with the Chiefs in 2002.

He was on the Best Damn Sports Show period last night and one of the guys said that Tony Gonzalez was one of the best, but was being payed only 3 million a year. Tony said he was entering a contract year and hopefully will get more money.

stephen1
07-08-2005, 09:03 PM
1) Tony Gonzalez
2) Shannon Sharpe
3) Ozzie Newsome
4) Mike Ditka
5) Mike Vrabel :confused:

how can you leave out winslow sr.?

mexican_texan
07-09-2005, 01:13 AM
how can you leave out winslow sr.?

i dunno. I just never heard about Tony Gonzalez go after his records.

Texas_Thrill
07-10-2005, 12:52 AM
Mike Vrabel? I hope that was a joke.

And it said ALL AROUND TE.....that should knock Sharpe down a few nothces and Ditka UP.

Did ya'll forget about Todd Heap? Keith Jackson from the Eagles back in the days? Ben Coates?

Gonzalez might be the best playing today and honestly at this point he's #2 on my list to A. Gates.

But that all time list ya'll put up was a joke.

mexican_texan
07-10-2005, 01:20 AM
Mike Vrabel? I hope that was a joke.

And it said ALL AROUND TE.....that should knock Sharpe down a few nothces and Ditka UP.

Did ya'll forget about Todd Heap? Keith Jackson from the Eagles back in the days? Ben Coates?

Gonzalez might be the best playing today and honestly at this point he's #2 on my list to A. Gates.

But that all time list ya'll put up was a joke.

u just realized that? anyway, :dangit: Gates has had one, count it one, good year, and how many has Gonzo had? He is also the only Latino worth knowing in the NFL.

stephen1
07-10-2005, 01:31 AM
u just realized that? anyway, :dangit: Gates has had one, count it one, good year, and how many has Gonzo had? He is also the only Latino worth knowing in the NFL.

i agree gonzalez is better. gates was good last year but tony was even better, 102 catches! maybe not as many td's but he was the cheifs only threat and he still kept producing

Texas_Thrill
07-14-2005, 01:39 AM
Career wise yes Gonzales is better than Gates but like I said if we are going on who i'd take right now. I'd take Gates over Gonzo on youth.

There just aren't the all around TE's like their use to be. Now it seems like all of them "specialize" in catching or receiving like Fullbacks.

ATX
07-14-2005, 03:52 AM
my original question was suppose to be top 5 current all around TEs. i also forgot the point i was intending to make. so anyway, who's the top 5 all around TEs currently?

ATX
07-14-2005, 03:54 AM
oh, i remember my original point. notice how none of the top 5 current TEs were in the superbowl? we don't need a top TE to make it the big dance.

mexican_texan
07-14-2005, 01:26 PM
Career wise yes Gonzales is better than Gates but like I said if we are going on who i'd take right now. I'd take Gates over Gonzo on youth.

There just aren't the all around TE's like their use to be. Now it seems like all of them "specialize" in catching or receiving like Fullbacks.

i would take gonzo right now. Gates is overrated. Their styles are similar, both being ex-basketball players and grabbing passes down like rebounds. Gates may be younger, which makes him less experienced. :brickwall

BornOrange
07-14-2005, 01:39 PM
oh, i remember my original point. notice how none of the top 5 current TEs were in the superbowl? we don't need a top TE to make it the big dance.
While the Texans may not need a top 5 TE to make it to the Super Bowl, they definitely need a lot more production from the TE spot. The Patriots and Eagles both get qood numbers from a variety of players at TE.

Patriots TE's
Graham - 30 catches, 364 yards, 7 TD's
Fauria - 16 catches, 195 yards, 2 TD's
Weaver - 8 catches, 93 yards, 0 TD's
Klecko - 3 catches, 18 yards, 0 TD's
Watson - 2 catches, 16 yards, 0 TD's
Vrabel - 2 catches, 3 yards, 2 TD's
Team Total - 61 catches, 689 yards, 11 TD's

Eagles TE's
Smith - 34 catches, 377 yards, 5 TD's
Lewis - 29 catches, 267 yards, 3 TD's
Bartrum - 5 catches, 45 yards, 1 TD
Team Total - 69 catches, 689 yards, 9 TD's

Houston TE's
Miller - 17 catches, 178 yards, 1 TD
Bruener - 4 catches, 52 yards, 0 TD's
Team Total - 21 catches, 230 yards, 1 TD

BornOrange
07-14-2005, 02:46 PM
Here are the numbers for Houston TE's in the first 3 seasons.

2004
Miller - 17 catches, 178 yards, 1 TD
Bruener - 4 catches, 52 yards, 0 TD's
Team Total - 21 catches, 230 yards, 1 TD

2003
Miller - 40 catches, 355 yards, 3 TD's
Holloway - 8 catches, 84 yards, 0 TD's
Team Total - 48 catches, 439 yards, 3 TD's

2002
Miller - 51 catches, 615 yards, 3 TD's
Holloway - 7 catches, 73 yards, 0 TD's
Team Total - 58 catches, 688 yards, 3 TD's

stephen1
07-14-2005, 02:49 PM
the first season billy miller was david's security blanket. like DD is now. if we can get that kind of production this season from him without the receivers performance dropping off we should have a much better record.

ATX
07-14-2005, 06:28 PM
While the Texans may not need a top 5 TE to make it to the Super Bowl, they definitely need a lot more production from the TE spot. The Patriots and Eagles both get qood numbers from a variety of players at TE.

Patriots TE's
Graham - 30 catches, 364 yards, 7 TD's
Fauria - 16 catches, 195 yards, 2 TD's
Weaver - 8 catches, 93 yards, 0 TD's
Klecko - 3 catches, 18 yards, 0 TD's
Watson - 2 catches, 16 yards, 0 TD's
Vrabel - 2 catches, 3 yards, 2 TD's
Team Total - 61 catches, 689 yards, 11 TD's

Eagles TE's
Smith - 34 catches, 377 yards, 5 TD's
Lewis - 29 catches, 267 yards, 3 TD's
Bartrum - 5 catches, 45 yards, 1 TD
Team Total - 69 catches, 689 yards, 9 TD's

Houston TE's
Miller - 17 catches, 178 yards, 1 TD
Bruener - 4 catches, 52 yards, 0 TD's
Team Total - 21 catches, 230 yards, 1 TD

you do make a good point, we definitely need better production from the TE spot. i don't get to review games or anything like that, but is our problem from poor TE play or Carr not being able to get it to the TE? seems like DD gets alot of the catches that a TE would get on another team.

stephen1
07-14-2005, 07:09 PM
you do make a good point, we definitely need better production from the TE spot. i don't get to review games or anything like that, but is our problem from poor TE play or Carr not being able to get it to the TE? seems like DD gets alot of the catches that a TE would get on another team.

the eagles threw a lot to westbrook and still had tight end production, but they have a pass oriented offense whereas ours is a clock eating run scheme so the limited run attempts may be why they had all the receiving production.

Vinny
07-14-2005, 07:11 PM
We use our TE much more like Pittsburgh has used theirs in their power rushing scheme.

stephen1
07-14-2005, 07:13 PM
We use our TE much more like Pittsburgh has used theirs in their power rushing scheme.

thats why bruener starts instead of miller. bruener is a bad pass catcher but can be a decent run blocker just needs to reduce the penalties. miller is a pass catcher but not a very punishing blocker.

Scottyboy
07-14-2005, 09:46 PM
We defiantly need a Decent TE. Joppu is done. Trust me, and Miller and
Bruner are a couple of goons. Would be great to get a good TE before Training camp!! :homer:

ATX
07-15-2005, 01:01 AM
so any hope in rivers, murphy, or halterman the rookie? what's the word on them?

DreamCatcher
07-15-2005, 04:08 PM
If we had the chance to get McMichaels he would add more firepower to the Texans O FOR SURE.

TheOgre
07-15-2005, 04:36 PM
My solution is to draft another one. If Joppru FINALLY gets to play a down, it is bonus. Haven't we hit the Three-strikes-and you're-out rule yet?

z0rpAn
07-15-2005, 04:48 PM
My solution is to draft another one. If Joppru FINALLY gets to play a down, it is bonus. Haven't we hit the Three-strikes-and you're-out rule yet?

that'll be next year i believe

Evans Fan
07-15-2005, 09:45 PM
My solution is to draft another one. If Joppru FINALLY gets to play a down, it is bonus. Haven't we hit the Three-strikes-and you're-out rule yet?


Joppru was good in college so when he gets on the field he will be good

pockets44
07-19-2005, 06:12 PM
I've got to disagree on this. I think Miller is a good TE, we just aren't utilizing him the way we should. He's not the total package, but he is good at what he does best. CATCHING THE BALL! Carr just doesn't hit him enough. Its andre, andre, andre, oh crap heres the rush, dump to dominick.

mexican_texan
07-20-2005, 01:34 PM
Lets uhhh just kidnap Tony Gonzalez...is that legal?

way ahead of you, bud.

U4ikrob
07-20-2005, 01:55 PM
Joppru was good in college so when he gets on the field he will be good

I think theres a good chance Bennie may never play a down in a Texans uni IMO. Not bashing the guy as I would LOVE to see him get out there and kick some butt like he was intended to do, but his body hasnt co-operated. Honestly I look for the Texans to really grade him hard next year and he will have to produce tangible, regular, repeatable results by camp next year or he could be cut in Training camp IMO. Honestly at that point you have to wonder about his level of desire to play and his competitiveness and football skills after not playing hardly a down 3 years in a row and what he will produce on the field and if it's worth what your paying him or is it more fiscally responsible to cut him and re-sign him if they intend to keep him to a min contract with incentives based on playing time.

infantrycak
07-20-2005, 02:12 PM
Honestly at that point you have to wonder about his level of desire to play and his competitiveness and football skills after not playing hardly a down 3 years in a row ...

IMO it is totally unfair to question the desire of someone who just went down with a torn knee ligament after recovering from a detached ligament in his groin. Do you seriously think more desire & competitiveness would have held those ligaments together? This isn't some guy with bruised muscles and strains that can't be objectively verified. These are deals requiring surgery. Fans really need to ease up on trying to look into players' heads.

TommyS
07-20-2005, 04:14 PM
IMO it is totally unfair to question the desire of someone who just went down with a torn knee ligament after recovering from a detached ligament in his groin. Do you seriously think more desire & competitiveness would have held those ligaments together? This isn't some guy with bruised muscles and strains that can't be objectively verified. These are deals requiring surgery. Fans really need to ease up on trying to look into players' heads.

i dont think he was trying to blame bennie's weak knees/groin/ligaments etc on his (lack of) desire, but stating that maybe it will be hard to light the fire under him after 3 years off the field.

i would disagree - after 3 years away, especially after all the hard work in training/re-hab, i think the guy will be screaming to get out on the field and hit someone, catch a pass, make a block. it must be the most frustrating thing ni the world for pro-athletes to suffer through injuries, and this guys had more than his fair share.

but you're right - we have no way of looking into the guy's head, whatever happens.

Buzz
07-22-2005, 12:54 AM
I think Bennie should try his luck for one of the NFL Europe teams if he can ever get healthy. If he does well, like Ragone, then the team will want to see if he can take the next step and be good enough to stick around.

Vinny
07-22-2005, 01:09 AM
Joppru isn't a project, he is just injured.

Big78
07-22-2005, 02:06 AM
Okay do you guys think there were quality TEs left on the 3rd round? The Morency pick really gets me going "uhhhhhh..... wth.....". Now were signing DD to a long term contract? Ehhhh just dont make and sort of sense.


there is always the option of giving him some playing time and show that he can produce and get his stock up. then we trade him to some one that needs a rb such as the bowns for a draft pick or a tight end.

Big78
07-22-2005, 02:21 AM
i just checked and in the 5th round this guy was still available. it sounds like he could be fairly effective if given the chance. check him out. and he was taken by St. Louis in the 5th /144th pick.

www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/position/TE

his name is Jerome Collins

Vinny
07-22-2005, 02:23 AM
I have Collins on both my dynasty teams and he is a project and will take a few years to develop. Should be a solid special teamer. He is in a Peek/Wand-type 3 year grooming situation.

Big78
07-22-2005, 05:06 PM
do u think he would have been a better pick than any of our other later one's such as the center we just signed or morency?

Vinny
07-22-2005, 05:19 PM
Collins is a project. He isn't going to see the field much and he was taken before Hodgdon in any case. I was one of the guys who wanted a back early so I'm very happy we took Morency.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-22-2005, 05:28 PM
Morency was rated by some as the 4th best back in the draft (ahead of Arrington) prior to running a 4.6 at the combine. I think he was a very good pick for the Texans. Our RB depth was severely lacking. I personally don't think much of Wells as a backup.

throwANDREtheBALL
07-23-2005, 02:24 PM
If the Texans wanted a TE they should've taken Joel Dreessen TE RD 6 pick 198, instead of S C.C. Brown....or Kevin Everett TE RD 3 pick 86....but, they obviously liked our TE situation.

But, I agree with the RB pick, Hollings hasn't proved anything yet and Wells doesn't exactly have the coaches confidence when Davis is hurt.

I'm not sure if I agree that Morency was a STEAL in round three, but, I am glad that they drafted him and not Maurice Clarett.

ccdude730
07-23-2005, 02:47 PM
i think that wells is a suitable backup. there was talk last offseason about him taking a shot at the FB position and i think this season they think he might have a shot at it with it being norris' position.

IMO the texans took morency because they have doubts with hollings. i can see the backfield including norris, wells, davis, and morency. they still might want to work with hollings though.

Wells doesn't exactly have the coaches confidence i cant see that, sorry

and as for our TE solution, well im clueless and just hope who we have now can get the job done. and with the new offense they wont really be NEEDING the position as often as one was needed last season; however im not certain to how the "new-style" offense will require a legit TE

throwANDREtheBALL
07-23-2005, 02:52 PM
I guess I should have explained myself better.

Wells does have the coaches confidence as far as, playing Special Teams and willing to contribute wherever necessary.........but, he does not have their confidence in being a backup that can come in and put together good production for multiple games if DD goes down.

If Davis was to get injured in week 1 for the season, the coaching staff or GM didn't think that Wells was the answer or they wouldn't have picked a RB in Round 3.

That said, I like Wells and I think that its great how he's working on different aspects of his game to keep helping the team in any way that he can.

ccdude730
07-23-2005, 03:00 PM
i can see what you mean and i feel that he is able to effectively contribute for a while (situational to a couple of quarters to even a game or two), but he is not an answer to our RB needs.