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djohn2oo8
09-16-2013, 09:25 AM
What do you expect to see from them once we go against the elite QBs? Mccain being the weak spot and all.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 09:51 AM
What do you expect to see from them once we go against the elite QBs? Mccain being the weak spot and all.

When you say elite, do you mean Brady & Peyton?

Or are you talking about these 1st & 2nd year players people are calling elite now; Luck, Wilson, & Kaepernick?

Seattle showed us how to beat Kaepernick, Wilson didn't look elite last week, & Tannerhill just outplayed Luck.

badboy
09-16-2013, 11:38 AM
We need it to get better fast.

bash
09-16-2013, 11:53 AM
I wish we'd try Bouye over Mccain, I feel at this point im open to anything except back to back touchdowns by Wes Welker, Eddie Royal, Amendola, or Lance Moore. Id much rather have KJ and rusty Jjo fighting for the ball with back up from reed/swearinger/keo/manning/pleasant

Rey
09-16-2013, 12:04 PM
When you say elite, do you mean Brady & Peyton?

Or are you talking about these 1st & 2nd year players people are calling elite now; Luck, Wilson, & Kaepernick?

Seattle showed us how to beat Kaepernick, Wilson didn't look elite last week, & Tannerhill just outplayed Luck.

I wouldn't take much away from those games. Both of those teams' defenses face similar type of QB's with similar type of plays in practice. Both those defenses have faced mobile QB's that can throw and run the read option with good rb's to give it to.

Plus I think both those teams are really good anyways. So while two beasts may not look like much head to head, match them up with a weaker opponent and its slaughter time.

Make no mistake about it. Texans are likely going to need their A games if we get those teams not shooting themselves in the foot.

Rey
09-16-2013, 12:06 PM
I want to see Brandon Harris. He's more physical than McCain and I think if they actually let him play he could take some lumps and develop into a much better player than Brice.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 12:12 PM
I want to see Brandon Harris. He's more physical than McCain and I think if they actually let him play he could take some lumps and develop into a much better player than Brice.

I was thinking the same thing. Harris would have whupped Eddie Royal & Kendall Wright into submission.

It's funny.... I can't name the Chargers or Titans 1 & 2 receiver, but I damn sure know their slot guy.

NastyNate
09-16-2013, 12:18 PM
Kareem Jackson had a very good game, was excellent in run support. The rest of the secondary was horrible.

texanhead08
09-16-2013, 12:21 PM
Its beyond strange how Kareem is now our shutdown corner and teams throw at Jonathan Joseph like he is Kareem circa 2010.

HJam72
09-16-2013, 12:25 PM
Um, I hate to be the Kareem basher here, but he gave up an entire TD drive practically by himself. The rest of the game was fine, but I don't really believe he outplayed J-Jo. On the drive where he got called for the helmet-to-helmet hit, he also gave up a long pass before it & the TD pass after it.

Mr teX
09-16-2013, 12:28 PM
Elite qb's will do what elite qb's do to secondaries...shred. if we are going to fashion ourselves as contenders, our defense has to at least slow them down and give our offense a chance; something we did not do last year against them.

For some odd reason though, I'm not worried about Manning..I guess years of abuse will do that to you & i don't feel his teams are any better than anything we faced all those years he was in Indy.

SF though....really worried about that game...As of now, I don't see how we're going to stop Kaepernick...& he's not even elite..evidenced by his whopping 6 pts he gave me in FF last night :brickwall:.

Allstar
09-16-2013, 12:52 PM
I'm just glad we're not facing Ponder this year :wadepalm:

Insideop
09-16-2013, 12:54 PM
Elite qb's will do what elite qb's do to secondaries...shred. if we are going to fashion ourselves as contenders, our defense has to at least slow them down and give our offense a chance; something we did not do last year against them.

For some odd reason though, I'm not worried about Manning..I guess years of abuse will do that to you & i don't feel his teams are any better than anything we faced all those years he was in Indy.

SF though....really worried about that game...As of now, I don't see how we're going to stop Kaepernick...& he's not even elite..evidenced by his whopping 6 pts he gave me in FF last night :brickwall:.


Need to worry about the Ravens first. But, the next 3 games will tell us a lot about our team. Win, lose, or draw, we're fixin to find out what we have! :texflag:

GNTLEWOLF
09-16-2013, 01:00 PM
What secondary?:thinking:

infantrycak
09-16-2013, 01:15 PM
What secondary?:thinking:

The one that is 5th in yards given up, 6th in ypa and 3rd in % completions allowed - 52.5%.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 01:22 PM
Its beyond strange how Kareem is now our shutdown corner and teams throw at Jonathan Joseph like he is Kareem circa 2010.

I thought it was funny when Wilcox said Locker was targeting Kj after that 99 yard drive.

What's bad, is that some people believed it.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 01:32 PM
Um, I hate to be the Kareem basher here, but he gave up an entire TD drive practically by himself. The rest of the game was fine, but I don't really believe he outplayed J-Jo. On the drive where he got called for the helmet-to-helmet hit, he also gave up a long pass before it & the TD pass after it.

He gave up that catch to Nate Washington... other than that, I don't think he gave up a catch. But I really want to see the All 22 before I say too much about it. To me, the last two games, looks like he's getting a little over-confident & is trying to make plays instead of just playing solid coverage & forcing the QB to look elsewhere to throw the ball. Where he just "let the receiver go" & Nate Washington caught the big pass, he was probably expecting a throw he could make a play on like he did earlier.

The hit to Wright. Not a very smart play, should have just tackled him. He came off his man to make a play... he tried to separate the ball from the receiver.. gave up the play & then some. But whoever was covering him (McCain I assume, but he was nowhere in the screenshot) blew that one.

Same thing with Delanie Walker. Kareem didn't make a play to keep him out of the endzone, but he was standing on the goal line when he got to him (hyperbole). Walker was not Kareem's assignment. He was just all over that side of the field, because the receiver he was covering didn't give him enough to do.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 01:35 PM
Need to worry about the Ravens first. But, the next 3 games will tell us a lot about our team. Win, lose, or draw, we're fixin to find out what we have! :texflag:

The next three games isn't going to tell us anything the first 5 games of 2012 didn't (5-0). Winning games in Sept is nice.... but they don't tell us a whole lot.

deucetx
09-16-2013, 01:36 PM
I thought it was funny when Wilcox said Locker was targeting Kj after that 99 yard drive.

What's bad, is that some people believed it.

To back up what TK is stating PFF, who watches every snap and every game, have the breakdown in regards to coverage for the Titans game.

KJ: 5 targets 2 receptions 12 yards 1 TD 2 Passes Defended
JJ: 11 targets 7 receptions 73 yards 0 TD 0 Passes Defended

Nawzer
09-16-2013, 01:40 PM
I thought they had a better game as a unit.

Corrosion
09-16-2013, 04:15 PM
The one that is 5th in yards given up, 6th in ypa and 3rd in % completions allowed - 52.5%.

With Shiloh Keo starting .... and being the one we hear from the least. (Its usually not good when we hear a DB's named called).


I think Im more concerned with the offense - particularly the OL than anything else. They didn't run block well after the opening drive for the next two and a half quarters , and the pass protection broke down early and often ..... from damn near everywhere.

HOU-TEX
09-16-2013, 04:19 PM
It's going to be interesting how this unit plays with Reed in the mix this week. Will they be better, status quo or take a step back?

Odds are, his play count will probably be very limited

Mr teX
09-16-2013, 04:23 PM
With Shiloh Keo starting .... and being the one we hear from the least. (Its usually not good when we hear a DB's named called).


I think Im more concerned with the offense - particularly the OL than anything else. They didn't run block well after the opening drive for the next two and a half quarters , and the pass protection broke down early and often ..... from damn near everywhere.

This.. alot of the pressure has been coming from the edges. Freeney manhandled Brown last week..this week Newton was getting drove.


Newton is......Newton.

bckey
09-16-2013, 07:24 PM
Need to worry about the Ravens first. But, the next 3 games will tell us a lot about our team. Win, lose, or draw, we're fixin to find out what we have! :texflag:

I think the next 5 games up to the bye week will tell us a lot about our team. The Rams and Chiefs are much better this year than last year.

@Ravens
Seahawks
@49ers
Rams
@Chiefs

The Pencil Neck
09-16-2013, 07:43 PM
The next three games isn't going to tell us anything the first 5 games of 2012 didn't (5-0). Winning games in Sept is nice.... but they don't tell us a whole lot.

It's a helluva lot better than LOSING games in September.

amazing80
09-16-2013, 08:17 PM
McCain is bad and rbs and tes will still haunt us. Nothing changed so far, and honestly Im not sure how much Reed can help, its not deep throws that hurt us, its short to intermediate ones.

Our oline is another story :toropalm:

Texan_Bill
09-16-2013, 08:32 PM
The one that is 5th in yards given up, 6th in ypa and 3rd in % completions allowed - 52.5%.

With Shiloh Keo starting .... and being the one we hear from the least. (Its usually not good when we hear a DB's named called).


I think Im more concerned with the offense - particularly the OL than anything else. They didn't run block well after the opening drive for the next two and a half quarters , and the pass protection broke down early and often ..... from damn near everywhere.

Also with A. Smith playing 1 of 2 games. The front end has a lot to do with the success of the back end.

infantrycak
09-16-2013, 08:34 PM
The front end has a lot to do with the success of the back end.

Hey now, no Saturday night talk.

burro
09-16-2013, 08:48 PM
I want to see Brandon Harris. He's more physical than McCain and I think if they actually let him play he could take some lumps and develop into a much better player than Brice.

Agreed. Brice McCain is subpar, always playing off the receiver and taking bad angles. He was arguably the worst CB on our 2010 roster. That says a lot.

Until our CBs can play tight coverage and make physical plays for the ball, we will always have a frustrating weakness against screens and other short yardage passes.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 08:56 PM
Until our CBs can play tight coverage and make physical plays for the ball, we will always have a frustrating weakness against screens and other short yardage passes.

Teams usually stack their receivers on those screens, so you can't play tight coverage. Everyone crowding the line on our side makes it harder on us.

HouTx11
09-16-2013, 08:59 PM
The entire secondary needs to step it up. KJ gave up the biggest 3 plays on that 99 yard drive including the TD, even though there were other passes and runs that were given up on that drive by Joseph, Cushing, etc...

On the previous Titan drive that resulted in the safety Joseph got burned on the sideline, but fortunately the Titans were flagged for delay of game.

Hoping we see a better effort from the D in Baltimore.

Texan_Bill
09-16-2013, 09:25 PM
Hey now, no Saturday night talk.

:spit: Awesome!!

burro
09-16-2013, 09:31 PM
Teams usually stack their receivers on those screens, so you can't play tight coverage. Everyone crowding the line on our side makes it harder on us.

You don't have to play press coverage, just not 5 yards off the receiver.

steelbtexan
09-16-2013, 09:52 PM
The secondary

Needs Ed Reed back in a bad way.

Corrosion
09-17-2013, 12:57 AM
Also with A. Smith playing 1 of 2 games. The front end has a lot to do with the success of the back end.

I was saying that .... they haven't been bad.

As Cak posted 5th in yards given up, 6th in ypa and 3rd in % completions allowed.


Im not complaining about the defense ... they have had a brainfart or two but played well in general , even with Shiloh Keo starting in place of Reed.


All my b!tch!ng is reserved for that OL .... they haven't been very good thus far (outside of the first drive against the Tinbreds).

4th and a foot - get stuffed ?! (against the Chargers)
Fosters 2pt conversion .... he did that pretty much on his own.
The 4th down attempt against the Tinbreds failed.
Schaub got hit & hurried on several plays in the early portion of the 4th quarter Sunday including the pick 6.


They really need to get right , right fast cause the opposition only gets tougher over the next three weeks.

silvrhand
09-17-2013, 08:11 AM
the secondary will only do as good as the pass rush.. We need to get more consistent pressure on the QB, our OLB has to step up and start getting pressure off the edge to get the QB moving up in the pocket.

thunderkyss
09-17-2013, 08:39 AM
the secondary will only do as good as the pass rush.. We need to get more consistent pressure on the QB, our OLB has to step up and start getting pressure off the edge to get the QB moving up in the pocket.

Jake Locker threw for 148 yards. He only completed 56% of his passes.

They ran for 119 yards.

6 first downs by passing

6 first downs by running

Offensively they scored 17 points.

I don't know if we've got a secondary problem as much as we have a defense problem.

Then again, they had 15 possessions & only scored on three.


There's no way the Titans should have had 15 possessions in a game... if we're running the ball, so maybe we've got an offense problem.

I think we've got too many problems right now, to just "focus" on one facet of the team.

deucetx
09-17-2013, 09:22 AM
We had about 13 hurries this past game. That's actually pretty good so pressure wasn't an issue this game as that is pretty consistent. The fact of the matter is you won't put pressure on the QB every single pass. Just not going to happen unless you're going against the most inept offensive line/schemes and the Titans aren't that. Now the Jaguars....

I don't think the defense or secondary had a bad game. It's just that they don't put it all together. They will look stout and then have a lapse here and there. Honestly, there is no reason the Titans offense should have a 99-yard drive on the defense. Just none. Maybe guys got a bit relaxed seeing the team pinned so far back or the Titans just had one of those moments everything clicked. Who knows.

So I'm not overly worried yet. There is only really one team in the AFC that has the receivers to concern me and that is the Broncos. I'm use to Manning. But the fact he has four rather darn good targets or more specifically, two that can really work the middle, is a bit concerning.

Other than that who has anything in the conference that can test the depth of our secondary? Not the Pats since they are grooming youngsters. And...well...that's it. Not much in the AFC right now when it comes to offensive capabilities.

thunderkyss
09-17-2013, 10:38 AM
There is only really one team in the AFC that has the receivers to concern me and that is the Broncos. I'm use to Manning. But the fact he has four rather darn good targets or more specifically, two that can really work the middle, is a bit concerning.


Not only that, they're big, strong, & athletic. Put the ball in their hands & something's about to happen. You don't "stay in front of them & make the play".

Most offenses, you have the one guy. We've got Andre, Arizona has Fitz, Chicago has Marshall, & Miami has Wallace. Denver, you've got Thomas & Thomas... & while he isn't big & strong, Welker is a video game.... the play is just starting when they catch the ball.

Decker ain't no joke either.

sandman
09-17-2013, 11:27 AM
Rivers went for 400+ yards on the Eagles, and for the season has a 7:1 TD to INT ratio, 66% completion rate, sacked only three times and a rating of 115%.

It wasn't exactly Blain Gabbert that they held to only 10 yards in the second half last Monday night.

Flacco has less yards, lower completion rate, worse TD:INT ratio, twice as many sacks and a miserable rating of 78%.

Of course, any given Sunday, but I'm not seeing where Flacco's physical QB skills are any bigger threat than Rivers. That being said, his legend is built more on his intangibles than anything else.

thunderkyss
09-17-2013, 12:38 PM
Flacco has less yards, lower completion rate, worse TD:INT ratio, twice as many sacks and a miserable rating of 78%.


I expect him to beat his average next week.

TexanBacker93
09-17-2013, 10:10 PM
I'm waiting to see how the next 3 games plays out, but I'm not to upset about the D so far. It's only 2 games, but they've shown the ability to make the stops when necessary.

The 2nd half of the Tacks game is a perfect example. Tennessee had the ball 8 times in the 2nd half. 7 of those drives were either a 3 and out or a safety. The one drive being a 99 yard TD drive bolstered by a missed bounce pass (IMO at least), and KJ's personal foul. At this point the D and Lechler had kept the Titans on one end of the field, but the turtle wasn't able to mount any drives during the 3rd or early 4th quarters. 1 drive might have given the D a break and said "you don't have to win this yourselves, we'll do our part".

In the Chargers game, after the 1st drive in the 3rd Quarter and going behind by 21 points the Chargers mounted an offensive display that might even make the Jags snicker. They had 2 3 and outs followed by a TD pass from Rivers to Cushing on the first play of that drive, and then 2 more 3 and outs. Those 5 offensive possessions netted them 10 yards.

Yeah, we've given up some bad plays. We might get dissected by Brady et al. I think being able to put up 11 3 and outs, 2 defensive scoring plays while holding any NFL team not based in Northern Florida from doing anything for most of a half when you can't afford them to get anything is pretty good.

Our offense has given a TD to the other team in each game. The D has responded and made the plays necessary.

San Diego ended up with about 250 yards on us. They put up 550 against the Eagles in Philly.

Corrosion
09-17-2013, 11:51 PM
I'm waiting to see how the next 3 games plays out, but I'm not to upset about the D so far. It's only 2 games, but they've shown the ability to make the stops when necessary.

The 2nd half of the Tacks game is a perfect example. Tennessee had the ball 8 times in the 2nd half. 7 of those drives were either a 3 and out or a safety. The one drive being a 99 yard TD drive bolstered by a missed bounce pass (IMO at least), and KJ's personal foul. At this point the D and Lechler had kept the Titans on one end of the field, but the turtle wasn't able to mount any drives during the 3rd or early 4th quarters. 1 drive might have given the D a break and said "you don't have to win this yourselves, we'll do our part".

In the Chargers game, after the 1st drive in the 3rd Quarter and going behind by 21 points the Chargers mounted an offensive display that might even make the Jags snicker. They had 2 3 and outs followed by a TD pass from Rivers to Cushing on the first play of that drive, and then 2 more 3 and outs. Those 5 offensive possessions netted them 10 yards.

Yeah, we've given up some bad plays. We might get dissected by Brady et al. I think being able to put up 11 3 and outs, 2 defensive scoring plays while holding any NFL team not based in Northern Florida from doing anything for most of a half when you can't afford them to get anything is pretty good.

Our offense has given a TD to the other team in each game. The D has responded and made the plays necessary.

San Diego ended up with about 250 yards on us. They put up 550 against the Eagles in Philly.

Good post - fat rep.


The bold above is why Im b!tch!ng more about the OL than anything the defense has done thus far ... Oh , and don't forget that the Bullock has the yips.

thunderkyss
09-18-2013, 12:21 AM
Good post - fat rep.


The bold above is why Im b!tch!ng more about the OL than anything the defense has done thus far ... Oh , and don't forget that the Bullock has the yips.

Not to make excuses, the Titans' D capitalized on our mistake with that pick6. But that was our mistake, Schaub misreading the corner (that CB was not fully turned yet).

Then the 9 points missed by Bullock was more about Bullock than the Titans.

That's a 15 point swing, score "should have been" 23-17 in regulation.

I know it doesn't work that way, I'm not looking for a moral victory or a silver lining. Just saying we beat ourselves a bit there.

Corrosion
09-18-2013, 12:32 AM
Not to make excuses, the Titans' D capitalized on our mistake with that pick6. But that was our mistake, Schaub misreading the corner (that CB was not fully turned yet).

Then the 9 points missed by Bullock was more about Bullock than the Titans.

That's a 15 point swing, score "should have been" 23-17 in regulation.

I know it doesn't work that way, I'm not looking for a moral victory or a silver lining. Just saying we beat ourselves a bit there.

I wont argue over the missed FG's - Bullock has the yips!


But ... you do have to credit the Tinbreds defense for forcing Schaub into that mistake - If they don't put the heat on him , he easily has time to make the proper read (3rd and a lot , why the hell are you throwing an 8 yard route ?!) rather than the throw he made that ends with a pick 6.


That play .... irks the crap outa me.

Everyone blames Kubiak for the conservative play calling (often on 3rd down).
Its 3rd and long , unless forced to , you don't throw in front of the marker - Schaub does this crap a lot , usually underneath stuff .... but when I watch that play , I get a better understanding of the shortcomings of Schaub (mobility) playing into the reasoning behind the "result" of many 3rd down plays , despite the call - most of which don't end up in the hands of the primary receiver.

I guess what Im saying is - other than screens & draws , Gary isn't drawing up plays where the primary receiver is short of the mark - Schaub is checking to them more often than not to mask his ineptitude in mobility.

paycheck71
09-18-2013, 12:45 AM
I thought it was funny when Wilcox said Locker was targeting Kj after that 99 yard drive.

What's bad, is that some people believed it.

The announcers were just atrocious in that game. It's hard to take someone seriously when they don't know the safety and punting rules.

thunderkyss
09-18-2013, 12:49 AM
Everyone blames Kubiak for the conservative play calling (often on 3rd down).
Its 3rd and long , unless forced to , you don't throw in front of the marker - Schaub does this crap a lot , usually underneath stuff .... but when I watch that play , I get a better understanding of the shortcomings of Schaub (mobility) playing into the reasoning behind the "result" of many 3rd down plays , despite the call - most of which don't end up in the hands of the primary receiver.

I guess what Im saying is - other than screens & draws , Gary isn't drawing up plays where the primary receiver is short of the mark - Schaub is checking to them more often than not to mask his ineptitude in mobility.

I don't think that's it. A lot of the plays are designed to clear out parts of the field & let our play-makers make plays. That's why I didn't understand keeping Walter over Jacoby.

One play in particular, Andre was cutting across right to left. OD crossed left to right, Andre ran the under route, OD ran the over. Schaub decided to throw the ball to Andre & ODs route should have created a natural pick... but OD ran around Andre's defender. Andre would have had plenty of room to run if we had got that pick.

Those WR screens, when they work, they work. When they don't, major fail.

Remember Martin's big play? It was second down but the same thing applies. We release 4 receivers into the pattern, Jean squatted at the sticks, Martin runs a 4 yard route, Andre & Hopkins ran verticals. Schaub chose the 4 yard route, Martin shook his defender, turned it upfield, & picked up 32 yards.

I understand on third down & 7 you don't throw that 4 yard route to KeyShawn Martin. But you throw it to Andre, Arian or OD if the right play is called & they're in the defense you expected.

Corrosion
09-18-2013, 01:00 AM
I don't think that's it. A lot of the plays are designed to clear out parts of the field & let our play-makers make plays. That's why I didn't understand keeping Walter over Jacoby.



Keeping Walter over Jacoby is easy to quantify ..... Jacoby scared the sh!t out of all of us every time he touched the ball , flailing it about. Ball security is a big big deal .... tho Im sure you know that.

76Texan
09-18-2013, 01:49 AM
Schaub's two INTs weren't good, but I don't get on him too much.

Schaub threw the ball to a spot on the pick to the right side.
He has to expect Hopkins to adjust his route.
Kubiak is protecting Hopkins from media scrutiny so he put it on the veteran Schaub.

The other pick was a good play on Pollard's part; he was in man coverage, but broke off his man to make the play. Give him the credit.
Sure, I would have liked for Schaub to look straight up the middle first, but he was going for a quick pass. It is still something that Schaub can work on though.

76Texan
09-18-2013, 02:40 AM
Regarding KJax on that long drive by the Titans, I believe it was 2010 again.

The hit was lower than Pollard's hit; it was just a violent hit shoulder to shoulder.
The coaches just need to find a good method to help their defenders avoid the call.

The long pass play along the side line was a case that KJax played underneath in Cover two, man-under, looking for a possible pick similar to his previous try.
With only one vertical route on that side, I expect Manning to get there as fast as Pollard did on AJ; otherwise, there's no need for a two-deep safety.

The Texans were in quarter zone on the TD pass to the TE Walker.
The Titans flooded KJax' zone with two guys.
With only two offensive weapons on that side, DJ needs to stretch his zone to follow the TE. Another yard or so diagonally, and Locker would have to throw the ball away.

silvrhand
09-18-2013, 07:42 AM
We had about 13 hurries this past game. That's actually pretty good so pressure wasn't an issue this game as that is pretty consistent. The fact of the matter is you won't put pressure on the QB every single pass. Just not going to happen unless you're going against the most inept offensive line/schemes and the Titans aren't that. Now the Jaguars....

I don't think the defense or secondary had a bad game. It's just that they don't put it all together. They will look stout and then have a lapse here and there. Honestly, there is no reason the Titans offense should have a 99-yard drive on the defense. Just none. Maybe guys got a bit relaxed seeing the team pinned so far back or the Titans just had one of those moments everything clicked. Who knows.

So I'm not overly worried yet. There is only really one team in the AFC that has the receivers to concern me and that is the Broncos. I'm use to Manning. But the fact he has four rather darn good targets or more specifically, two that can really work the middle, is a bit concerning.

Other than that who has anything in the conference that can test the depth of our secondary? Not the Pats since they are grooming youngsters. And...well...that's it. Not much in the AFC right now when it comes to offensive capabilities.

get out of the stats, stats are great one side of it, but how much of our pressure came from the outside? Almost none, the OLB position has to start putting some pressure on the edge, as we have great interior pressure, we need someone on the edge forcing the QB into the pocket.

silvrhand
09-18-2013, 07:43 AM
Not to make excuses, the Titans' D capitalized on our mistake with that pick6. But that was our mistake, Schaub misreading the corner (that CB was not fully turned yet).

Then the 9 points missed by Bullock was more about Bullock than the Titans.

That's a 15 point swing, score "should have been" 23-17 in regulation.

I know it doesn't work that way, I'm not looking for a moral victory or a silver lining. Just saying we beat ourselves a bit there.

minus the 95 yard touchdown that britt would have had on JJ.. Britt was killing JJ all game long a bit concerning, JJ was way off on a couple plays as well at least a 10 yard cushion. Not sure what's going on with JJ.

thunderkyss
09-18-2013, 08:19 AM
The Texans were in quarter zone on the TD pass to the TE Walker.
The Titans flooded KJax' zone with two guys.
With only two offensive weapons on that side, DJ needs to stretch his zone to follow the TE. Another yard or so diagonally, and Locker would have to throw the ball away.


I can't see, but I'm thinking there was some contact with the primary receiver in Kj's zone. That, & I can't imagine why he would allow the receiver to get behind him in that situation, so he was probably trying to stay on top of him either way.

At the same time, DJ's zone was flooded as well. Had he widened his zone, Locker would have hit Cj3.8ypc who had a step on Cushing & nothing but green between him & the end zone. Locker's read is probably Dj Swearinger. If he squeezes the thight end, he'll dump it to Cj. If he sits in his zone, the throw is to Walker.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/TexansZone_zpsfdb8c3df.png

You can also see the ends did a good job pinching the edges, forcing Locker to step up into the pocket.

Those were just some good routes against that defense & probably a poor choice on our side.... zone, psshh.

thunderkyss
09-18-2013, 08:29 AM
minus the 95 yard touchdown that britt would have had on JJ.. Britt was killing JJ all game long a bit concerning, JJ was way off on a couple plays as well at least a 10 yard cushion. Not sure what's going on with JJ.

Kenny Britt had 4 catches for 28 yards, with a long of 9. For his career, Britt averages 16.1 ypc. He burned Jjo once, but it was negated for a hold or something.

I'd have liked to had seen Jjo get a few passes defensed & I wish some of those Britt did catch didn't go for 1st downs, but overall that's a solid job on a talented receiver.

The 10 yard cushion is about playing the QB, not the receiver. If we're sending a strong blitz against the QB it makes sense for the receiver to keep the receiver in front of him, read the QB's eyes, & play the ball.

steelbtexan
09-18-2013, 08:40 AM
I can't see, but I'm thinking there was some contact with the primary receiver in Kj's zone. That, & I can't imagine why he would allow the receiver to get behind him in that situation, so he was probably trying to stay on top of him either way.

At the same time, DJ's zone was flooded as well. Had he widened his zone, Locker would have hit Cj3.8ypc who had a step on Cushing & nothing but green between him & the end zone. Locker's read is probably Dj Swearinger. If he squeezes the thight end, he'll dump it to Cj. If he sits in his zone, the throw is to Walker.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/TexansZone_zpsfdb8c3df.png

You can also see the ends did a good job pinching the edges, forcing Locker to step up into the pocket.


Those were just some good routes against that defense & probably a poor choice on our side.... zone, psshh.

What I see and have seen for a while now is no pressure and a clean pocket for Locker to step up into.

Mr teX
09-18-2013, 09:45 AM
minus the 95 yard touchdown that britt would have had on JJ.. Britt was killing JJ all game long a bit concerning, JJ was way off on a couple plays as well at least a 10 yard cushion. Not sure what's going on with JJ.

There's nothing wrong with J-jo...he excels at press man he's not been able to play much of that this year or late last year b/c teams have forcing us out of that & into more zone...Mainly b/c McCain can't hold down the slot guy but also b/c our safeties don't have the ability to cover the range necessary to play man effectively with Keo's slow ass back there.
The 3 safety look helps us more than it did last year, in this regard but isn't as effective as it could be b/c Swearinger's more of a ball hawk safety, not an in-the box safety like Manning. I've already seen several times this year, him playing right up there next to Cushing. Apart from that, he's just a rook & ultimately not ready yet.

I suspect that getting Reed out there will allow for Swearinger & Manning to switch places in that 3 safety look. And with everyone in place and allowed to do what they do best, it will embolden Wade to play more press man again & we'll start to see the old aggressive J-jo back....& old defense back......at least i hope....:vincepalm:

thunderkyss
09-18-2013, 10:27 AM
What I see and have seen for a while now is no pressure and a clean pocket for Locker to step up into.

I was wrong (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013091505/2013/REG2/titans@texans#menu=highlights&tab=recap).... That's Merci on our right side, the tackle falls back relatively flat. Reed is on the bottom (our left), again, the tackle stays flat. Jj is next to him & he gets the penetration forcing Locker to step up. Crick is there at the 15. The LOS is the 10 yard line (the blue line) & their OL backed up 5 yards... but I think that's "normal" pass pro. The ends don't curl at all & Locker followed through with his throw just fine.

HOU-TEX
09-18-2013, 11:01 AM
Schaub's two INTs weren't good, but I don't get on him too much.

Schaub threw the ball to a spot on the pick to the right side.
He has to expect Hopkins to adjust his route.
Kubiak is protecting Hopkins from media scrutiny so he put it on the veteran Schaub.

The other pick was a good play on Pollard's part; he was in man coverage, but broke off his man to make the play. Give him the credit.
Sure, I would have liked for Schaub to look straight up the middle first, but he was going for a quick pass. It is still something that Schaub can work on though.

Pollard didn't have to do jack. The ball was tipped right to him because the interior of our oline was crushed. They sent a LB blitz, which had everyone man up. IIRC, it was Myers and Brooks that both lost their blocks.

The oline is not living up to it's standard thus far.

76Texan
09-18-2013, 11:05 AM
I can't see, but I'm thinking there was some contact with the primary receiver in Kj's zone. That, & I can't imagine why he would allow the receiver to get behind him in that situation, so he was probably trying to stay on top of him either way.

At the same time, DJ's zone was flooded as well. Had he widened his zone, Locker would have hit Cj3.8ypc who had a step on Cushing & nothing but green between him & the end zone. Locker's read is probably Dj Swearinger. If he squeezes the thight end, he'll dump it to Cj. If he sits in his zone, the throw is to Walker.

You can also see the ends did a good job pinching the edges, forcing Locker to step up into the pocket.

Those were just some good routes against that defense & probably a poor choice on our side.... zone, psshh.

DJ never even looked back at CJ who was on the other side.
He doesn't need to. The slant was for Cushing to cover; DJ can always come back to help. There's also Manning back there in the end zone.

Teams that play zone well will have their defenders stretching the zone quickly. It becomes"man" in a hurry in short space.

54 and 99 were pretty close to Locker there; proper spacing by DJ will definitely force Locker to throw the ball away in a fraction of a second for sure, or get sacked.

76Texan
09-18-2013, 11:13 AM
Pollard didn't have to do jack. The ball was tipped right to him because the interior of our oline was crushed. They sent a LB blitz, which had everyone man up. IIRC, it was Myers and Brooks that both lost their blocks.

The oline is not living up to it's standard thus far.

Hou-Tex, it was a situation where the Titans sent six on the blitz, and we only had five to block.

It is on the QB to deal with the stunting LB.
The line call had already been made; Brooks can't block both guys.

Give Pollard credit; he read the QB's eyes and left his man early once he saw the blitzer getting on to Schaub.

Fico
09-18-2013, 11:22 AM
Teams that play zone well will have their defenders stretching the zone quickly. It becomes"man" in a hurry in short space.



This is correct. Playing zone with your backs to the end-zone is never a bad choice.

The field is compressed and you are essentially playing man with the luxury of having your eyes on the QB. That prevents Locker from running it in and gives you an opportunity to make a play on the ball, and rally to tackle if it is thrown short of the goal line.

HOU-TEX
09-18-2013, 11:31 AM
Hou-Tex, it was a situation where the Titans sent six on the blitz, and we only had five to block.

It is on the QB to deal with the stunting LB.
The line call had already been made; Brooks can't block both guys.

Give Pollard credit; he read the QB's eyes and left his man early once he saw the blitzer getting on to Schaub.

Wrong. It was a 5 man blitz. Brooks pulled off his man to pick up the blitzer, Myers pulled off his to pick up Brooks' man and Wade failed to pick up where Myers left his man. They all did the correct thing, but failed to accomplish them.

thunderkyss
09-18-2013, 01:13 PM
DJ never even looked back at CJ who was on the other side.
He doesn't need to. The slant was for Cushing to cover; DJ can always come back to help. There's also Manning back there in the end zone.

Teams that play zone well will have their defenders stretching the zone quickly. It becomes"man" in a hurry in short space.

54 and 99 were pretty close to Locker there; proper spacing by DJ will definitely force Locker to throw the ball away in a fraction of a second for sure, or get sacked.

If you say so

76Texan
09-18-2013, 01:27 PM
Wrong. It was a 5 man blitz. Brooks pulled off his man to pick up the blitzer, Myers pulled off his to pick up Brooks' man and Wade failed to pick up where Myers left his man. They all did the correct thing, but failed to accomplish them.

You're right, I took a quick look, and forgot that Pollard was in blitz-and-peel mode.

Playoffs just post a link to Harris' (from the SideLine View) pointer regarding the role of Brook on that play.

Basically, he concurs with me that the QB just has to account for that blitzer.

HOU-TEX
09-18-2013, 02:17 PM
You're right, I took a quick look, and forgot that Pollard was in blitz-and-peel mode.

Playoffs just post a link to Harris' (from the SideLine View) pointer regarding the role of Brook on that play.

Basically, he concurs with me that the QB just has to account for that blitzer.

Even so, that does not change what the interior 3 attempted and failed to do. Unlike many, I don't pretend I know the play called or pre-snap calls by the QB and oline. I simply evaluate what my eyes see.

drs23
09-18-2013, 09:47 PM
Schaub's two INTs weren't good, but I don't get on him too much.

Schaub threw the ball to a spot on the pick to the right side.
He has to expect Hopkins to adjust his route.
Kubiak is protecting Hopkins from media scrutiny so he put it on the veteran Schaub.

The other pick was a good play on Pollard's part; he was in man coverage, but broke off his man to make the play. Give him the credit.
Sure, I would have liked for Schaub to look straight up the middle first, but he was going for a quick pass. It is still something that Schaub can work on though.

Haven't finished this thread yet so this may have been touched on.

76, I'm not one to question the time you put into watching these games and posting your opinion but at the end of the day, it's your opinion.

Perhaps it's just me but Nuk had already blown by the defenders and was alone at the top and Matt threw it "to a spot"? Don't look to me that the ball came out *that quick*.

I don't think Gary is axin Matt to 'take one for the team'. I think Nuk read it correctly and did what he was supposed to do and Matt wasn't yankin' us when he told us " I screwed the pooch" (kinda paraphrased:)) I'd like to see it again but I'm too cheap to buy NFL GAME REWIND and my recording got zapped. :mad:

dream_team
09-18-2013, 10:19 PM
Haven't finished this thread yet so this may have been touched on.

76, I'm not one to question the time you put into watching these games and posting your opinion but at the end of the day, it's your opinion.

Perhaps it's just me but Nuk had already blown by the defenders and was alone at the top and Matt threw it "to a spot"? Don't look to me that the ball came out *that quick*.

I don't think Gary is axin Matt to 'take one for the team'. I think Nuk read it correctly and did what he was supposed to do and Matt wasn't yankin' us when he told us " I screwed the pooch" (kinda paraphrased:)) I'd like to see it again but I'm too cheap to buy NFL GAME REWIND and my recording got zapped. :mad:

I have Game Rewind and I checked it out. When Nuk ran by the defenders, that ball was already in the air. Nuk ran by Verner only because Verner saw the throw, knew it was behind Nuk, and stopped to make the pick.

Kubiak did say this one was on Matt. The receiver has the option of what to run, depending if the coverage is a bump or not. So this is what confuses me, and got me believing that Hopkins actually ran the wrong route. You would think if there was bump coverage, then the receiver should run some kind of vertical sideline route. If the corner is playing off (which Verner is in this situation), then the receiver should sit. Sorry, I don't know the technical terms for these routes.

If I had to guess, and I have no evidence to back this up, but I think Hopkins ran the wrong route. It's possible Kubiak told the press it was on Matt because he knew Matt could take the heat, but not sure how Hopkins would react???

76Texan
09-18-2013, 10:38 PM
Haven't finished this thread yet so this may have been touched on.

76, I'm not one to question the time you put into watching these games and posting your opinion but at the end of the day, it's your opinion.

Perhaps it's just me but Nuk had already blown by the defenders and was alone at the top and Matt threw it "to a spot"? Don't look to me that the ball came out *that quick*.

I don't think Gary is axin Matt to 'take one for the team'. I think Nuk read it correctly and did what he was supposed to do and Matt wasn't yankin' us when he told us " I screwed the pooch" (kinda paraphrased:)) I'd like to see it again but I'm too cheap to buy NFL GAME REWIND and my recording got zapped. :mad:
Anything is possible, and I don't claim that my opinion is the correct assumption.

I can only tell that Schaub threw the ball to a spot.
Why?
It has to be because he was expecting to have a target there.

When Schaub released the ball, the CB was about 4 yards deeper than Hopkins.
Schaub couldn't have been throwing a go route; he threw it as an out route.
The safety was reading Schaub's eyes and broke toward the ball.
Schaub didn't throw it into double coverage as some claimed.

There's no other feasible explanation for that pass.
In my mind, Schaub must be expecting an out route from his receiver, or a come back route of some sort.

Schaub isn't a wide-eye rookie QB who doesn't know the playbook.
He had been running this offense for years.

I hope I make sense, did I?

76Texan
09-18-2013, 10:45 PM
If I had to guess, and I have no evidence to back this up, but I think Hopkins ran the wrong route. It's possible Kubiak told the press it was on Matt because he knew Matt could take the heat, but not sure how Hopkins would react???
The transcript shows that Kubiak added something to the effect that there are things that Hopkins can work on.

My thinking is that they want to handle things behind the scene.
Schaub and Kubiak know each other very well; I'm sure they had gone through situations like this already.

There's no need to shake up a rookie's confidence.
They kept going back to Hopkins to show their faith in him; which I think is brilliant.

drs23
09-18-2013, 10:53 PM
I have Game Rewind and I checked it out. When Nuk ran by the defenders, that ball was already in the air. Nuk ran by Verner only because Verner saw the throw, knew it was behind Nuk, and stopped to make the pick.

Kubiak did say this one was on Matt. The receiver has the option of what to run, depending if the coverage is a bump or not. So this is what confuses me, and got me believing that Hopkins actually ran the wrong route. You would think if there was bump coverage, then the receiver should run some kind of vertical sideline route. If the corner is playing off (which Verner is in this situation), then the receiver should sit. Sorry, I don't know the technical terms for these routes.

If I had to guess, and I have no evidence to back this up, but I think Hopkins ran the wrong route. It's possible Kubiak told the press it was on Matt because he knew Matt could take the heat, but not sure how Hopkins would react???

Thanks Dream, well said. I stand corrected. So much for my "eye witness" account.

If the ball was already in the air then my "what I thought I saw" was off base and guess I didn't discern the "after the game propaganda" very well.

Certainly my view only but I don't think Nukdabomb needs to be coddled.

76Texan
09-18-2013, 11:10 PM
Thanks Dream, well said. I stand corrected. So much for my "eye witness" account.

If the ball was already in the air then my "what I thought I saw" was off base and guess I didn't discern the "after the game propaganda" very well.

Certainly my view only but I don't think Nukdabomb needs to be coddled.

You can't really say about young players.
I still remember Martin's dejected face from last year.

It is an assumption on my part, but I think he lost some confidence last year.

silvrhand
09-19-2013, 06:47 AM
Thanks Dream, well said. I stand corrected. So much for my "eye witness" account.

If the ball was already in the air then my "what I thought I saw" was off base and guess I didn't discern the "after the game propaganda" very well.

Certainly my view only but I don't think Nukdabomb needs to be coddled.

If the CB doesn't pick it for 6 and go to the house, the LB does, Matt was throwing into double coverage that was sitting on the out route. Did the CB open his hips already to make the turn? If not Deandre made the right route adjustment.