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View Full Version : Foster-Tate vs LT-Turner


leebigeztx
09-10-2013, 01:57 AM
I've been going back and forth with a few guys on this. Last yr, I felt like foster was in self preservation mode a lot. I don't know if it was the new diet or what,but he was going down way too easy. Of course compounding my debate,tate was hurt last yr. Fast forward to this yr and foster is fighting injuries and tate is in a contract yr. Tonight is only 1 game,but Tate looks like the bull in a china shop while foster looks like a guy who didn't play in the preseason. This reminds me of the LT vs Turner situation a few yrs ago.

We heard how how the sd line wasn't as good as it was before. Yet, when turner would run, his ypc was a lot higher than that of lt. So sd put the high tender on turner even with the high salary declining LT. Turner was a little banged up,but still signed a good deal with Atl. He then rushed for 1600 yds and double digit tds while LT kinda faded in sd. He was later released,had a solid season for jets,then retired. I bring this up because we know how kubes-shanny thinks of rbs. Arian has a lot of touches in his body. He's been over 400 since becoming a full time starter. If tate stays healthy and run like he did tonight, I think the texans should high tender tate and if he plays well again,sign him and cut foster.

Texanmike02
09-10-2013, 02:01 AM
I've been going back and forth with a few guys on this. Last yr, I felt like foster was in self preservation mode a lot. I don't know if it was the new diet or what,but he was going down way too easy. Of course compounding my debate,tate was hurt last yr. Fast forward to this yr and foster is fighting injuries and tate is in a contract yr. Tonight is only 1 game,but Tate looks like the bull in a china shop while foster looks like a guy who didn't play in the preseason. This reminds me of the LT vs Turner situation a few yrs ago.

We heard how how the sd line wasn't as good as it was before. Yet, when turner would run, his ypc was a lot higher than that of lt. So sd put the high tender on turner even with the high salary declining LT. Turner was a little banged up,but still signed a good deal with Atl. He then rushed for 1600 yds and double digit tds while LT kinda faded in sd. He was later released,had a solid season for jets,then retired. I bring this up because we know how kubes-shanny thinks of rbs. Arian has a lot of touches in his body. He's been over 400 since becoming a full time starter. If tate stays healthy and run like he did tonight, I think the texans should high tender tate and if he plays well again,sign him and cut foster.

I think you're a little ahead of yourself. This is ONE game. Foster didn't look great but this wasn't the Miami game. If at the end of the year Foster is sub 4.0 ypc then you might consider what you're talking about but Foster is 27, not 31.

Foster's successor is not on the roster right now. Tate is 25. You don't release a bell-cow runner for a guy 2 years his junior. You tender the younger guy an offer that nets you a 1st and you keep your horse and ride him 2 more years.

Mike

Mr.Scarface
09-10-2013, 02:03 AM
I've been going back and forth with a few guys on this. Last yr, I felt like foster was in self preservation mode a lot. I don't know if it was the new diet or what,but he was going down way too easy. Of course compounding my debate,tate was hurt last yr. Fast forward to this yr and foster is fighting injuries and tate is in a contract yr. Tonight is only 1 game,but Tate looks like the bull in a china shop while foster looks like a guy who didn't play in the preseason. This reminds me of the LT vs Turner situation a few yrs ago.

We heard how how the sd line wasn't as good as it was before. Yet, when turner would run, his ypc was a lot higher than that of lt. So sd put the high tender on turner even with the high salary declining LT. Turner was a little banged up,but still signed a good deal with Atl. He then rushed for 1600 yds and double digit tds while LT kinda faded in sd. He was later released,had a solid season for jets,then retired. I bring this up because we know how kubes-shanny thinks of rbs. Arian has a lot of touches in his body. He's been over 400 since becoming a full time starter. If tate stays healthy and run like he did tonight, I think the texans should high tender tate and if he plays well again,sign him and cut foster.

Knee-Jerk? LOL:vincepalm:

Tate is not a #1 back. Someone will over pay him next year.

Vinny
09-10-2013, 02:05 AM
to me, Foster looks slow. He isn't running with the pop he had earlier in his career....I don't want to say he's spent, but he doesn't look like an elite back out there. Not trying to be knee-jerk or anything.

infantrycak
09-10-2013, 02:13 AM
We heard how how the sd line wasn't as good as it was before. Yet, when turner would run, his ypc was a lot higher than that of lt. So sd put the high tender on turner even with the high salary declining LT.

In 2007, Turner's last year in SD, LT had a higher ypc than Turner. In 2006 Turner did have a higher ypc than LT but LT was hardly in decline going 5.2 ypc for 1815 yds rushing - that was .1 ypc below the highest of his career and by far the most yds in a season.

Scooter
09-10-2013, 02:14 AM
i think the scenario mostly fits, the only hitch is tate's injury history. however i dont think keeping tate over foster is a very viable option because of arian's contract. i dont know the money side of things, but i think we'll be riding foster for at least the next couple of seasons because it'd cost too much to do otherwise. that also means we'd be put in a similar situation - trying to get the most for tate before he leaves. in my opinion tate is very much a #1 back, and would actually be better on a more power/lead type offense. if not for injuries, i'd definitely trade a 1st to get a bellcow back like tate ... as it stands i'd offer a 2nd. as a texans fan i'd take a second for tate.

Texn4life
09-10-2013, 02:23 AM
to me, Foster looks slow. He isn't running with the pop he had earlier in his career....I don't want to say he's spent, but he doesn't look like an elite back out there. Not trying to be knee-jerk or anything.

I saw some burst in him tonight that reminded me of the old him, but to me it seems like teams are doing a good job of taking away those cutback lanes Arian used to be well known for hitting. I would try mixing it up with some quick hitting running plays like some traps to kind of counter that. Its just what I see from the naked eye.

jtexas
09-10-2013, 06:56 AM
Arian does have a different running style than Tate. Tate is more of a vertical runner with less patience. Foster lets his blocks dev. longer and it results in big gains or no gains. Last night was the first action he has seen since last season so i also give him a bye. I think it would be a good idea to start Tate and let Foster finish with the defense worn down.

RCPM
09-10-2013, 07:08 AM
Yup, we need to cut Foster after one off game. :wadepalm:

speedfreek
09-10-2013, 07:11 AM
There's a local Houston radio guy ripping Foster a new A-hole on NFL AM right now.

OUCH!

TJ

Rey
09-10-2013, 07:26 AM
There's a local Houston radio guy ripping Foster a new A-hole on NFL AM right now.

OUCH!

TJ

They're ripping him on local radio too...something about his attitude when Tate waved him off the field and Arian showed displeasure.

NCTexan
09-10-2013, 08:24 AM
They're ripping him on local radio too...something about his attitude when Tate waved him off the field and Arian showed displeasure.

I think that's a good thing! It's showing he's not pleased with his performance and wants to be the guy out there getting carries. He's a competitor. When I'm benched in sports I sure as hell ain't happy about it.

TheIronDuke
09-10-2013, 08:28 AM
I say let them both go and lets run with Cierre Wood, who's like a combo of both styles.

Rey
09-10-2013, 08:50 AM
I think that's a good thing! It's showing he's not pleased with his performance and wants to be the guy out there getting carries. He's a competitor. When I'm benched in sports I sure as hell ain't happy about it.

I wasn't complaining. Wasn't a good look, but passion is good.

NCTexan
09-10-2013, 08:54 AM
I wasn't complaining. Wasn't a good look, but passion is good.

It was more directed at the radio guys, just piggybacking off your post.

I thought Foster flashed some really good runs, and I'm hoping he's just knocking rust off.

thunderkyss
09-10-2013, 11:26 AM
to me, Foster looks slow. .

He's always looked slow.

I don't think we'll ever see him accelerate away from anyone like AD.

He runs different than Tate, Tate's a bruiser, looks for contact & will hit a skinny seam & blow it up. If not for his injury history I'd have no doubt he could be a #1 RB.

What I saw last night, was that Foster wasn't comfortable with his OL. He'll get his reads down & he'll be the Foster we know & love soon.

Playoffs
09-10-2013, 11:40 AM
I think you're a little ahead of yourself. This is ONE game. Foster didn't look great but this wasn't the Miami game. If at the end of the year Foster is sub 4.0 ypc then you might consider what you're talking about but Foster is 27, not 31.

Foster's successor is not on the roster right now. Tate is 25. You don't release a bell-cow runner for a guy 2 years his junior. You tender the younger guy an offer that nets you a 1st and you keep your horse and ride him 2 more years.

Mike
Bingo.

PapaL
09-10-2013, 12:39 PM
I was not impressed with Foster's running or catching last night. Lethargic is the word that comes to mind. Tate looked good to me.

thunderkyss
09-10-2013, 12:47 PM
I was not impressed with Foster's running or catching last night. Lethargic is the word that comes to mind. Tate looked good to me.

pssh....... that 1 handed catch had me screaming like a little girl (ask my wife)....



I was disappointed he didn't do anything with it, but that catch was impressive.

busterspencer
09-10-2013, 12:56 PM
Arian does have a different running style than Tate. Tate is more of a vertical runner with less patience. Foster lets his blocks dev. longer and it results in big gains or no gains. Last night was the first action he has seen since last season so i also give him a bye. I think it would be a good idea to start Tate and let Foster finish with the defense worn down.

Foster goes down with a whimper if he doesn't have a huge hole. There is no fight in him.

Hervoyel
09-10-2013, 12:58 PM
to me, Foster looks slow. He isn't running with the pop he had earlier in his career....I don't want to say he's spent, but he doesn't look like an elite back out there. Not trying to be knee-jerk or anything.


I'm hoping that he's just not in full-speed "football shape" after all the not participating in the preseason but I'm kind of concerned. This happens so it would be silly to think that it couldn't happen to Foster. Sometimes it's a guy who gets out of shape or out of his groove and he bounces right back. Other times he's just lost a step somewhere along the way. Maybe he doesn't want it as bad. Maybe he's been hit too many times. For whatever reason right now Foster isn't the same back and if he doesn't bounce back then it's time to start looking for that next great ZBS runner. Ben Tate! Cierre Wood! Step on up you might be a winner!

But I'd really rather see Arian back to form and cutting the way he used to. Last night he just didn't seem to be seeing the cut back lanes or if he did he often didn't take them.

PapaL
09-10-2013, 03:34 PM
pssh....... that 1 handed catch had me screaming like a little girl (ask my wife)....



I was disappointed he didn't do anything with it, but that catch was impressive.

That was one helluva 1 yard gain.

leebigeztx
09-10-2013, 07:02 PM
I'm hoping that he's just not in full-speed "football shape" after all the not participating in the preseason but I'm kind of concerned. This happens so it would be silly to think that it couldn't happen to Foster. Sometimes it's a guy who gets out of shape or out of his groove and he bounces right back. Other times he's just lost a step somewhere along the way. Maybe he doesn't want it as bad. Maybe he's been hit too many times. For whatever reason right now Foster isn't the same back and if he doesn't bounce back then it's time to start looking for that next great ZBS runner. Ben Tate! Cierre Wood! Step on up you might be a winner!

But I'd really rather see Arian back to form and cutting the way he used to. Last night he just didn't seem to be seeing the cut back lanes or if he did he often didn't take them.

That's all I'm saying. I mean,rbs sometimes fall off a cliff. Look at alexander in seattle and larry johnson in KC.Those guys were beast 1 yr,then the next year they were a shell of theselves. One thing we've seen under Kubes is the can find find rbs. Tate runs hard and he's a skilled runner too.He's not the receiving threat of foster,but he's not going down like foster right now.Its 1 game,but I noticed last yr he was going down on arm tackles.

DocBar
09-10-2013, 07:09 PM
I think you're a little ahead of yourself. This is ONE game. Foster didn't look great but this wasn't the Miami game. If at the end of the year Foster is sub 4.0 ypc then you might consider what you're talking about but Foster is 27, not 31.

Foster's successor is not on the roster right now. Tate is 25. You don't release a bell-cow runner for a guy 2 years his junior. You tender the younger guy an offer that nets you a 1st and you keep your horse and ride him 2 more years.

MikeCierre Wood might be his successor. All in all though, Foster looked like a guy who hasn't played football in 7 months. He missed OTA's, TC and all preseason. Foster will be back to normal soon. Hopefully Tate can stay healthy and keep Foster from having a bazillion touches this year.

Texanmike02
09-10-2013, 07:29 PM
That's all I'm saying. I mean,rbs sometimes fall off a cliff. Look at alexander in seattle and larry johnson in KC.Those guys were beast 1 yr,then the next year they were a shell of theselves. One thing we've seen under Kubes is the can find find rbs. Tate runs hard and he's a skilled runner too.He's not the receiving threat of foster,but he's not going down like foster right now.Its 1 game,but I noticed last yr he was going down on arm tackles.

Johnson was kind of a 1 year wonder really. Hip wasn't it? Kind of an Earl Campbell. I don't worry about that as much with Foster.

Mike

theNumber80
09-11-2013, 06:48 AM
to me, Foster looks slow. He isn't running with the pop he had earlier in his career....I don't want to say he's spent, but he doesn't look like an elite back out there. Not trying to be knee-jerk or anything.

This. How so many Texans fans refuse to acknowledge that Foster is not even close to an elite back is ridiculous. I don't care about Foster's bulk stats, the fact is he goes down on first contact and doesn't make people miss. Tate is a better runner as far I'm concerned, his injury-plagued year have just made people think he sucks.

TexanBacker93
09-11-2013, 01:09 PM
Johnson was kind of a 1 year wonder really. Hip wasn't it? Kind of an Earl Campbell. I don't worry about that as much with Foster.

Mike

He had 2 exceptional years with back to back 1700 yard seasons. He was hurt about half way through the next season and was never the same player. He had about 750 carries over the 2 great years.

Fico
09-11-2013, 01:11 PM
This. How so many Texans fans refuse to acknowledge that Foster is not even close to an elite back is ridiculous. I don't care about Foster's bulk stats, the fact is he goes down on first contact and doesn't make people miss. Tate is a better runner as far I'm concerned, his injury-plagued year have just made people think he sucks.

But see the thing is, you're wrong.

PapaL
09-11-2013, 02:08 PM
Gary Kubiak wants close RB split; LINK (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9659641/gary-kubiak-wants-arian-foster-ben-tate-split-carries-houston-texans)

HOUSTON -- Houston Texans coach Gary Kubiak liked what he saw out of backup running back Ben Tate Monday night and wants to keep his carries close to starter Arian Foster's for now.

"I wish it would have come out a little more closer to even; I think I said that after the game," Kubiak said of their split Monday night in San Diego. "Obviously, it was Arian's first time out this year. He didn't play any in the preseason. I think Ben's had an excellent preseason. I want to keep it somewhat close right now and watch them working to [see] what's going on."

theNumber80
09-11-2013, 02:27 PM
But see the thing is, you're wrong.

Nope, I'm right. I have no reason to hate on the starting running back on my favorite team. I just go by what I see and the past 2 years, Foster has been one of the most overrated players in the league. He's not even a top 10 RB IMO. If Ben Tate got the amount of carries he got, I'd guarantee you our rushing game would resemble 2011. It's no coincidence that once our top 3 o-line in 2011 started to regress/players departing, that Foster's production has dropped. He relies on his offensive line way more than the elite backs of the NFL.

Rey
09-11-2013, 02:36 PM
Nope, I'm right. I have no reason to hate on the starting running back on my favorite team. I just go by what I see and the past 2 years, Foster has been one of the most overrated players in the league. He's not even a top 10 RB IMO. If Ben Tate got the amount of carries he got, I'd guarantee you our rushing game would resemble 2011. It's no coincidence that once our top 3 o-line in 2011 started to regress/players departing, that Foster's production has dropped. He relies on his offensive line way more than the elite backs of the NFL.

I hate ruling players out, but if I had to make a choice today I'd go with Tate over Foster.

I won't say foster can't find his old swag, but he has not been all that for about the past year up until now. He goes down easily and he looks slow.

Gonna be hard to justify giving Arian tons of carries if he keeps looking mediocre and Tate looks better.

But as always, we'll see.

The Third Man
09-11-2013, 03:15 PM
I saw some burst in him tonight that reminded me of the old him, but to me it seems like teams are doing a good job of taking away those cutback lanes Arian used to be well known for hitting. I would try mixing it up with some quick hitting running plays like some traps to kind of counter that. Its just what I see from the naked eye.

This is a good point. Foster nearly scored on their first TD drive and his acceleration looked fine. I am not going to freak out about him until we see more evidence.

leebigeztx
09-11-2013, 03:44 PM
I had this discussion last year,but chalked it up to his new diet.I thought with tate being hurt last year that forsett should've gotten more carries and handled the 3rd down stuff.When arian was beasting,he had a high ypr 10 ish and he would run thru arm tackles.Last year his yards per catch were avg and those same arm tackles were bringing him down. He's never been a violent runner,more of a vision glider type,but what made him special was the ability to run through arms and get yards after. Similar to what we saw in alfred morris last yr. I know its early and he didn't have training camp because he was nursing injuries,but he looks like a rb with a lot of touches in his body. We will see and I hope I'm wrong,but if one guy is 3ypc and another is 6, you can't blame it on the line. If the line is the problem,then both guys would be around the same.

msbbc833
09-11-2013, 03:48 PM
I hope his 5 yr 43.5 mil contract he signed (20.75 mil guaranteed) won't hurt our future flexibility. In fact if his poor play continues I wonder when the team can safely cut him

leebigeztx
09-11-2013, 04:34 PM
I hope his 5 yr 43.5 mil contract he signed (20.75 mil guaranteed) won't hurt our future flexibility. In fact if his poor play continues I wonder when the team can safely cut him

www.overthecap.com

Looking at it,they have at least 2 more with foster.This yr plus 1

Texn4life
09-11-2013, 11:45 PM
"Slow to, quick through"....... thats something that running backs try to accomplish running with the ball. Using patience and when you see it bursting through the hole. I almost see Arian being a little too patient sometimes, and watching him in the playoffs I saw more of a sense of urgency. And he definitely had more of a sense of urgency early in his career. On these stretch plays I just see him kind of gliding trying to find a lane, but he's not really putting his foot in the ground and getting upfield like I've seen him do. I won't question his "want to" because I have no doubt he has plent of heart. I just think he needs to turn on some film of him running the ball his rookie year and see how decisive he was once he decided to hit the hole.

leebigeztx
09-12-2013, 01:11 AM
"Slow to, quick through"....... thats something that running backs try to accomplish running with the ball. Using patience and when you see it bursting through the hole. I almost see Arian being a little too patient sometimes, and watching him in the playoffs I saw more of a sense of urgency. And he definitely had more of a sense of urgency early in his career. On these stretch plays I just see him kind of gliding trying to find a lane, but he's not really putting his foot in the ground and getting upfield like I've seen him do. I won't question his "want to" because I have no doubt he has plent of heart. I just think he needs to turn on some film of him running the ball his rookie year and see how decisive he was once he decided to hit the hole.

I agree. Its like a lot of self preservation going on.He's been hesitant to just stick his foot in the ground and come downhill. Like you said, in the playoffs we saw that sense of urgency,but it was generally lacking last yr during the season.

thunderkyss
09-12-2013, 08:03 AM
I agree. Its like a lot of self preservation going on.He's been hesitant to just stick his foot in the ground and come downhill.

Anytime he sticks his foot in the ground, he slips & falls. :lol:

He looked fine to me. When the holes were there, he took advantage of them, or he fell down (that one time). When they weren't, he didn't.

On that 4th & 1, they had a great screen shot from above the players. It would be great if someone can get us a gif of that play. I'd like to hear from those that know, what went wrong there. I can't tell if Wade Smith went after the wrong LB, or if Chris Myers didn't get off his initial block soon enough.