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76Texan
09-05-2013, 11:37 AM
What position should we be looking for?

I understand that some wants to look for that special QB.

What else?

ILB maybe?
CB maybe?
OG? OT?

Rank the positions of need, if you will.

Rey
09-05-2013, 11:40 AM
Cb, olb

NCTexan
09-05-2013, 11:44 AM
OLB, until they prove otherwise.

ILB, someone besides Cushing needs to step up.

DBs, we'll see how Reed does, and Swearinger is a rookie, we need to be looking 2-3 years down the road here. CB is always something to watch.

Oline, I know we have some good young guys, but RT is still a concern.

thunderkyss
09-05-2013, 11:56 AM
Safety

Insideop
09-05-2013, 12:11 PM
What position should we be looking for?

I understand that some wants to look for that special QB.

What else?

ILB maybe?
CB maybe?
OG? OT?

Rank the positions of need, if you will.

The positions of need will depend on what players they let go after the season and probably injuries to players this season. With the signing of Cushing and the probable extension of Watt next year we can expect to lose some impact players. Possible candidates are "Ninja," J Jo, Foster or Tate, Wade Smith, etc... This will open up more holes to fill come draft time. The cap will just not let you keep all your good players anymore.

If I had to guess though I think ILB and OLB will be high on the list. They tried to address the OLB situation this past draft but it was a poor class of LBers (both ILB and OLB) and I think they will have to try again next year. The class should be better with players like Andrew Jackson and Shane Skov coming out.

So, as it is now, if I were to rank the positions of need in the draft, it would probably be:

1. OLB, Very thin unit after Reed & Mercilus. Montgomery may be bust.
2. ILB, After Cush there's nothing but JAG's.
3. WR, Still need to find AJ's replacement. Not sold on Martin, Posey, etc.

Wolf6151
09-05-2013, 04:36 PM
I was thinking about this at work last night, here's my line of thinking:

1. Move Reed to ILB like we wanted to do this year. Reed's an instant upgrade at ILB next to Cushing and solidifies the middle. Then we only need some mid-late round depth in the draft.
2. Re-sign Antonio Smith to a 2 yr. extension but lower his base salary. Based on this past offseason the market for older vet. FA isn't all that great. Teams aren't lining up to throw big money at older vets. so we can probably get him back at a discount. This also lessens the need for a DT/DE high in the draft.
3. Tuggle gives us depth at ILB and Jefferson gives us depth at OLB, and with their continued development we won't need Montgomery and T. Williams who are both a disappointment.
4. We lose Wade Smith to FA and add Quessenberry at LG. Cheaper and better.
5. We cut OD and save some money, Graham is the starter, and I was impressed with Ryan Griffen in preseason.


Draft:

1. OLB, a stud here instantly gives us a starter and vastly improves our depth at the position with Jeffersons development.
2. CB, 2014 seems like a good year for CB. Some quality talent here allows for development for the future while also giving us quality depth at a position that's very hard to get depth at. Along with Bouye's development we could be the envy of the NFL.
3. Safety, we need someone to push Keo off the team and Ed Reed is probably a 1 and done player.
4. OT, someone to give serious competition at RT but can also play OG and add overall depth to the O-line. With B. Williams, a rookie, and Newton hopefully we find our future RT.
5. TE, depth and competition behind Graham and Griffen.
6. ILB, depth only since we'll have starters and Tuggle.
7. Safety, someone to add depth and play special teams.

steelbtexan
09-05-2013, 05:10 PM
Cb, olb

^^^^
This, unless Jackson is re-signed

OLB is the biggest need, then the RT problem still hasn't been solved in my mind. I wish Marlon Brown had stayed in camp with the Texans. Martin needs to improve or go. Maybe Cruse will turn into the player Martin was supposed to be.

powda
09-05-2013, 05:39 PM
I was thinking about this at work last night, here's my line of thinking:

1. Move Reed to ILB like we wanted to do this year. Reed's an instant upgrade at ILB next to Cushing and solidifies the middle. Then we only need some mid-late round depth in the draft.
2. Re-sign Antonio Smith to a 2 yr. extension but lower his base salary. Based on this past offseason the market for older vet. FA isn't all that great. Teams aren't lining up to throw big money at older vets. so we can probably get him back at a discount. This also lessens the need for a DT/DE high in the draft.
3. Tuggle gives us depth at ILB and Jefferson gives us depth at OLB, and with their continued development we won't need Montgomery and T. Williams who are both a disappointment.
4. We lose Wade Smith to FA and add Quessenberry at LG. Cheaper and better.
5. We cut OD and save some money, Graham is the starter, and I was impressed with Ryan Griffen in preseason.


Draft:

1. OLB, a stud here instantly gives us a starter and vastly improves our depth at the position with Jeffersons development.
2. CB, 2014 seems like a good year for CB. Some quality talent here allows for development for the future while also giving us quality depth at a position that's very hard to get depth at. Along with Bouye's development we could be the envy of the NFL.
3. Safety, we need someone to push Keo off the team and Ed Reed is probably a 1 and done player.
4. OT, someone to give serious competition at RT but can also play OG and add overall depth to the O-line. With B. Williams, a rookie, and Newton hopefully we find our future RT.
5. TE, depth and competition behind Graham and Griffen.
6. ILB, depth only since we'll have starters and Tuggle.
7. Safety, someone to add depth and play special teams.

Good post and I generally like all of it. Couple of additional thoughts...

Any projection is subject to change. For all we know ,Wade Phillips is gone and we're switching back to a 4-3 defense.

I'm still on the lookout for a young qb if the right one is available. With all the back up qb hoopla it's a topic that's gone to sleep. We'll see.

Cb is concerning to me right now. A year from now with reed and jjo gone our secondary looks scary. Mccain has not impressed me. I want a cb with actual starter potential. And your dead on, give me enough safety depth that keo isnt here.

Imo, the difference between a great defense and a better then average defense (which I think we have now) is an OUTSIDE rush. How backwards is it that right now we have the inside pass rush other teams struggle to get, but not the outside rush? If we cant find it durring the season expect continued high picks at olb.

I've come to believe out of the defensive starters the 2nd ilb is the least coveted. Like our offense values full backs, the defense values the backer inside next to cush. It's a throw away, journey man position as long as the team has other needs. I expect a mid to late round pick here along with another vet. Job description equals stack the point of attack in the run game...everything else is icing.

Nose tackle behind Mitchell looks very iffy (yea, I saw mcclain to but i've also watched him previous seasons...)

Texans nailed the Ryan Griffin pick and OD will be gone.

We have so much young o-line talent it's hard to imagine someone wont emerge as a quality starter. I dont expect a high pick here...

thunderkyss
09-05-2013, 07:01 PM
^^^^
This, unless Jackson is re-signed

OLB is the biggest need, then the RT problem still hasn't been solved in my mind. I wish Marlon Brown had stayed in camp with the Texans. Martin needs to improve or go. Maybe Cruse will turn into the player Martin was supposed to be.

This is year three & if Posey can be our WR3 I think Martin will fill his role nicely.



Texans nailed the Ryan Griffin pick and OD will be gone.


Yeah they did.

Wolf6151
09-06-2013, 12:38 AM
I see next years O-line lineup being:

Brown - Quessenberry - Myers - Brooks - BPA

Their will be a major battle at RT between Newton, B. Williams, and a rookie draft pick.
Backups will be Ben Jones, and the 2 losers of the starting RT battle, maybe also Harris or Gardner as well.

I think we did very well with the Ryan Griffen pick, and the David Quessenberry pick. IMO Quessenberry looks like a 2nd or 3rd round talent, and after the injury he should be a great plug and play LG.

Here's a very early mock of players to watch.
1. Adrian Hubbard-OLB
2. Marcus Roberson-CB
3. Tre Boston-S
4. JaWaun James-OT/OG
5. Arthur Lynch-TE
6. Max Bullough-ILB
7. BSA = Best Safety Available.

Depending on the money situation Chris Myers could also be released and Ben Jones would then step up and fill his shoes, not likely but possible. I think Ed Reed, OD, and Wade Smith are all gone next year and I hope that we can re-sign Antonio Smith at a discount.

PapaL
09-06-2013, 06:06 AM
What are our highest salary players coming up? That's the position I'd draft for. Gonna have to start planning for that rainy day. Plus OL/DL. Can never have enough talent there.

Playoffs
09-06-2013, 09:05 AM
How old is Peyton Manning's son?:kitten:

76Texan
09-06-2013, 09:37 AM
How old is Peyton Manning's son?:kitten:

I don't know, but I'll be keeping an eye Montana's son at Tulane.
He isn't ready yet, and should stay in college a couple of years.
Maybe we'll see him in the 2015 draft.

NCTexan
09-06-2013, 12:19 PM
3. Tre Boston-S


You think Boston is worth a third round pick? Just out of curiosity. I think he's solid, but I think he could be had lower.

badboy
09-06-2013, 12:36 PM
^^^^
This, unless Jackson is re-signed

OLB is the biggest need, then the RT problem still hasn't been solved in my mind. I wish Marlon Brown had stayed in camp with the Texans. Martin needs to improve or go. Maybe Cruse will turn into the player Martin was supposed to be.

KJ is a club option 2014.

beerlover
09-06-2013, 09:33 PM
CB if a first round graded player is available?
OG man they just gotta bite the bullet here too much pocket insecurity & litney of injury's to both young & old. A position you justify spending this high if he grades out as a starter.
TE this is fast becoming a premier position, would like to see a Basketball skilled big tall target with good hands who can run like the wind.
NT still want athletic big (surprised they cut ties with Chris Jones after drafting him) but maybe a higher slotted player to play in a base 3-4.
ILB always tend to target LB who can fill holes here & play special teams.
KR/PR predictable slot for returner like when they choose Trindon Holliday
OLB/OT depth

powda
09-07-2013, 12:53 AM
I see next years O-line lineup being:

Brown - Quessenberry - Myers - Brooks - BPA


Yup. Wade Smith will be a cap casualty unless he takes a pay cut. Quess and Ben Jones will battle it out fiercely for the open LG spot. Jones is still eye'd as the successor to Meyers as well. At right tackle, we'll have zero doubt about what kind of talent Newton is by season's end. Williams will still be an unknown commodity. If Newton doesn't solidify the spot, look for a mid round pick and a journey man swing tackle type to also compete.

I see a rick smith trend on addressing "non priority positions." What's considered "non priority" is surely up for debate and offseason talent also plays into the equation (draft bpa, eager free agents...) To me the trend is attacking that non-priority position 3 ways: incumbent vs. rookie vs. Veteran journey man free agent.

I also see a rick smith trend of attacking positions 2 years in advance of contract expiration through the draft... As long as we have depth we have that luxury with mid and late round picks.

At rb we have a solid example of that. No they weren't drafted, but karim, cierre wood, d Johnson and the guy on the practice squad (forget his name) show a focus on a 2 year timetable. Tate will be gone and Foster will have boatloads of mileage. Foster will hit a wall sooner then later by percentages so find the next guy now and start grooming. It's not a bad formula.

Wolf6151
09-07-2013, 05:37 AM
Yup. Wade Smith will be a cap casualty unless he takes a pay cut. Quess and Ben Jones will battle it out fiercely for the open LG spot. Jones is still eye'd as the successor to Meyers as well. At right tackle, we'll have zero doubt about what kind of talent Newton is by season's end. Williams will still be an unknown commodity. If Newton doesn't solidify the spot, look for a mid round pick and a journey man swing tackle type to also compete.

I see a rick smith trend on addressing "non priority positions." What's considered "non priority" is surely up for debate and offseason talent also plays into the equation (draft bpa, eager free agents...) To me the trend is attacking that non-priority position 3 ways: incumbent vs. rookie vs. Veteran journey man free agent.

I also see a rick smith trend of attacking positions 2 years in advance of contract expiration through the draft... As long as we have depth we have that luxury with mid and late round picks.

At rb we have a solid example of that. No they weren't drafted, but karim, cierre wood, d Johnson and the guy on the practice squad (forget his name) show a focus on a 2 year timetable. Tate will be gone and Foster will have boatloads of mileage. Foster will hit a wall sooner then later by percentages so find the next guy now and start grooming. It's not a bad formula.


*After reading what CND has written about B. Williams microfracture surgery, I have serious doubts that B. Williams will ever play a down for the Texans. Quite possibly another 3rd round wasted pick. This might move the drafting of a RT prospect next year a little higher, possibly to the 2nd or 3rd round. Maybe we even give Quessenberry a try at RT.

*This is the whole reason we need to spend a high pick on CB next year. The CB position is one that is difficult to transition from college to the NFL and takes at least 1 yr. but more likely 2yrs. to make the adjustment and be good at an NFL level.

I like the way Smith addresses needs with an incumbent, rookie, and cheap FA. Competition is a good thing. Also thanks for reminding me that Tate will be gone at the end of the year, in my previous posts I forgot about him and his leaving should save us a little money as well.

Corrosion
09-14-2013, 05:15 AM
I gotta start with RT and CB.

Newton has been a stop gap player at best. To run this offense they simply have to do a better job up front & Newton has been the weak link for the most part.


@ CB Im ok with J.Jo and K.Jax as the starters , then again J.Jo's going to have a mighty fat cap figure next season unless they rework his deal.
Behind those two is where the real issue lies - the nickel corner. McCain isn't the same guy he was two years ago & Brandon Harris has been a disappointment IMO.

Other positions of concern in no specific order ...

I also have to look at QB & RB in the next draft -

Tate likely walks after this season for a payday.

Schaub's getting no younger & I don't trust Yates or Keenum to be long term starters. I know a lot of people are high on both of them , I am to as far as backup's go , but that's the extent of it for me. QB may have to wait one more draft tho .....

DE is another questionmark going into next season as Ninja's contract expires. I have no clue if he stays for a reasonable contract or if the team can even afford that with K.Jax & Watt due hefty payday's.

OLB I'd have to address at this point , unless both Reed and Mercilus prove they can generate a pass rush. If only one of them does , I think you still have to look to upgrade the position.

Wolf6151
09-19-2013, 03:29 AM
Since OLB seems to be high on many peoples list of 2014 position needs, does anyone have a list of suggested players? I'm looking at OLB's with enough size to handle the NFL position (run game and pass rush), or DE's with enough speed that can make the transition? Also do you think the Texans would actually draft an OLB in the 1st next year since this would essentially admit the mistake of picking Montgomery?

Texian
09-19-2013, 08:56 AM
What position should we be looking for?

I understand that some wants to look for that special QB.

What else?

ILB maybe?
CB maybe?
OG? OT?

Rank the positions of need, if you will.

The only way to get continuously better is BPA

steelbtexan
09-19-2013, 09:30 AM
The only way to get continuously better is BPA

Agreed

How I would draft would depend on what the 2015 draft class at QB looks like. If it isn't as good as 2014, then QB would be my pick.

I haven't started studying next yrs draft, but OLB seems to be strong and unless Mercilus improves I really like Van Noy. He looks like a natural pass rusher. He will probabl only run 4.7 at the combine which might make him available when the Texans pick.

What does the draft offer in the way of CB depth?

PapaL
09-19-2013, 10:17 AM
http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/papalrodz/Junk/JF.jpg

76Texan
09-19-2013, 11:29 AM
Agreed

How I would draft would depend on what the 2015 draft class at QB looks like. If it isn't as good as 2014, then QB would be my pick.

I haven't started studying next yrs draft, but OLB seems to be strong and unless Mercilus improves I really like Van Noy. He looks like a natural pass rusher. He will probabl only run 4.7 at the combine which might make him available when the Texans pick.

What does the draft offer in the way of CB depth?

From what I read, this CB class could be quite deep.

As far as the Texans' philosophy is concerned, I think it's a mix of BPA and needs according to salary cap implications.

During the off-season, they decide on some cuts and FA signings they can afford, then they fill the rest of the positions of needs with the draft based on BPA. They also draft with an eye on the future.
For example, they took Brooks Reed when Mario's contract looks to be out of whack in another year; they took Mercilus in case Barwin can't be resigned in the near future.
They cut Wilson (with a year remaining on his contract) and did not resign Pollard (who was a RFA).
They moved Quin and signed Manning to replace those guys.
They signed JJo to fill the void that the move of Quin to safety created.

It's an all-of-the above approach.
They try to fill the needs with affordable FAs.
The fewer the positions of needs entering the draft, the better they can afford to go BPA.
At least, that's the way I see it.

badboy
09-19-2013, 11:55 AM
The only way to get continuously better is BPATotally disagree, for example if BPA was a RB, we would not use a first. It depend on several things including the quality of the pick, is he a franchise type player or just BPA? It depends on our weaknesses. If BPA is a QB (looking at 2013 draft) we are decent with MS, Keenum and Yates so you don't ignore Hopkins. You also have to consider salary cap down the road for player you select. Also like 76 said, you might not choose a safety high if Ed Reed is sitting there in FA.

A corner, LT and Qb may take longer to develop so you might draft another position if it is also a high priority. There may be other excellent players at a lower round you could select freeing up higher pick. For example I like QB McCarron in late first but if David Fales appears to be available in second
(currently rated #76) I might go another way in first & hope to get Fales later.

I hope Texans soon get to level of BPA each round but not there yet.

steelbtexan
09-19-2013, 12:48 PM
Totally disagree, for example if BPA was a RB, we would not use a first. It depend on several things including the quality of the pick, is he a franchise type player or just BPA? It depends on our weaknesses. If BPA is a QB (looking at 2013 draft) we are decent with MS, Keenum and Yates so you don't ignore Hopkins. You also have to consider salary cap down the road for player you select. Also like 76 said, you might not choose a safety high if Ed Reed is sitting there in FA.

A corner, LT and Qb may take longer to develop so you might draft another position if it is also a high priority. There may be other excellent players at a lower round you could select freeing up higher pick. For example I like QB McCarron in late first but if David Fales appears to be available in second
(currently rated #76) I might go another way in first & hope to get Fales later.

I hope Texans soon get to level of BPA each round but not there yet.

The Texans hisorically say they use rds1-3 for BPA. Reality is they draft for need. Hopkins/KJ/Watt/Mercilus/Tate etc... need picks.

If you like McCarron alot you're going to have to spend a 1st on him. I just hope they dont draft JM. Great college QB, who I dont see panning out in the pro's.

There will be pressure to pick JM. Since the majority of the Texans fanbase are Aggies JM will appease them. BoB is all about that.

gary
09-19-2013, 02:29 PM
Don't cut Reed or OD let them stay. Cut OD? Very nice.

Playoffs
09-19-2013, 02:51 PM
I'm thinking this is the year to draft Schaub's replacement. I can see the makings of some draft mistakes at the top of the round.

badboy
09-19-2013, 03:11 PM
The Texans hisorically say they use rds1-3 for BPA. Reality is they draft for need. Hopkins/KJ/Watt/Mercilus/Tate etc... need picks.

If you like McCarron alot you're going to have to spend a 1st on him. I just hope they dont draft JM. Great college QB, who I dont see panning out in the pro's.

There will be pressure to pick JM. Since the majority of the Texans fanbase are Aggies JM will appease them. BoB is all about that.Agree, prior to game against A&M AJ was rated in low 50s and has moved to 44. I would spend a first on him.

Not so sure I agree on Manziel who imo will go pro for 2014, he can make all throws, is extremely accurate and unbelievable mobile. I have other QBs I want before him. I would be surprised if he is still on board at #32; someone will reach for him. This could be a deep draft for QBs if certain players like Bridgewater come out. I think 6 QBs as of now could go first round.

McNair did not appease fans when he selected Mario over Bush.

badboy
09-19-2013, 03:29 PM
Don't cut Reed or OD let them stay. Cut OD? Very nice.Gary I like OD and he is fan favorite however under the new CBA his 2014 cap hit $6.25 m is way too much. He is an 8 year vet & 31 YOA Nov 9th. 27 YOA (August '13) Garrett Graham 7 for 57 yds 2 TDs 6'3" 243 looks way good. Sunday he was 3 of 5 for 30 and a TD. If Hopkins, Posey and Martin are good, I hesitate to keep OD as I think passes to WR will increase. To work the cap, we have to move young cheaper guys into certain starting roles.

gcates
09-19-2013, 05:19 PM
I think it is far too early to be calling Sam Montgomery and Trevardo Williams busts, personally. They weren't expected to be starters out the gate, in any case.

I think DE will be a possible target depending on how they handle Antonio Smith, but also I am confident that either Jared Crick or Tim Jamison could take over as a starter opposite Watt as well. Still, depth is always valuable on the defensive front, so I could see either a DE or NT getting picked at some point in the first three rounds if the value is right.

ILB is a position I would like to see them target, and we will eventually need another safety and CB talent.

OL is something that, in my opinion, teams should be adding almost every year in the draft, just not necessarily early all the time. Depth is vitally important at all the OL positions.

TE is going to be a need sooner than later, but I am generally not a fan of first round TEs...but again it's a question of value and draft position.

QB of the future is always tough, but I would trust the FO should they choose to select one.

I have a feeling Tate will be gone, so RB will get addressed somethere between rounds 3-5 I would guess.

Really, it's anyones guess at this point. It should be clearer by the end of the season, I'm sure.

badboy
09-20-2013, 10:53 AM
I think it is far too early to be calling Sam Montgomery and Trevardo Williams busts, personally. They weren't expected to be starters out the gate, in any case.

I think DE will be a possible target depending on how they handle Antonio Smith, but also I am confident that either Jared Crick or Tim Jamison could take over as a starter opposite Watt as well. Still, depth is always valuable on the defensive front, so I could see either a DE or NT getting picked at some point in the first three rounds if the value is right.

ILB is a position I would like to see them target, and we will eventually need another safety and CB talent.

OL is something that, in my opinion, teams should be adding almost every year in the draft, just not necessarily early all the time. Depth is vitally important at all the OL positions.

TE is going to be a need sooner than later, but I am generally not a fan of first round TEs...but again it's a question of value and draft position.

QB of the future is always tough, but I would trust the FO should they choose to select one.

I have a feeling Tate will be gone, so RB will get addressed somethere between rounds 3-5 I would guess.

Really, it's anyones guess at this point. It should be clearer by the end of the season, I'm sure.Both OLB if not busts have not fulfilled the job they were drafted to perform imo. Montgomery seem to be in coaches doghouse from first OTA and T was to be a speed specialist disrupting QB.

I can see a DE in later rounds but no nose as MItchell and McClain are ok. I do not see Smith returning. Replace OD sooner than later due to OD's cap hit next 2 years with Garrett Graham We are good at rotating TEs onto the roster.

I am okay with Foster, Wood and another trainee in 2015. Hard to see Smith drafting a RB after success of UDFAs.

Enjoyed the back & forth.

infantrycak
09-20-2013, 11:24 AM
I do not see Smith returning. Replace OD sooner than later due to OD's cap hit next 2 years with Garrett Graham We are good at rotating TEs onto the roster.

I think you get too aggressive with projections of cuts/not re-signing players. It is not as easy as saying well we have someone at the position so they'll be good enough and we save money. Smith makes money because his play is better by far than most With the free agent market the way it was last off-season and his age his cap hit can be severely reduced with a new contract.

OD is a situation beyond cap hit alone. You have to consider the impact on free agents, contract extensions and restructuring. Players aren't going to favor a team who doesn't deliver on contracts unless there has been a reduction in play quality. His contract only minimally goes up next year. It is not some giant balloon amount everyone knew wouldn't be paid. Instead of a cut, barring a letdown in production, he is also a target for an extension with lower salaries commensurate with new contracts.

badboy
09-20-2013, 12:43 PM
I think you get too aggressive with projections of cuts/not re-signing players. It is not as easy as saying well we have someone at the position so they'll be good enough and we save money. Smith makes money because his play is better by far than most With the free agent market the way it was last off-season and his age his cap hit can be severely reduced with a new contract.

OD is a situation beyond cap hit alone. You have to consider the impact on free agents, contract extensions and restructuring. Players aren't going to favor a team who doesn't deliver on contracts unless there has been a reduction in play quality. His contract only minimally goes up next year. It is not some giant balloon amount everyone knew wouldn't be paid. Instead of a cut, barring a letdown in production, he is also a target for an extension with lower salaries commensurate with new contracts.Ninja turns 32 Oct 21st so 33 just after 2014 season begins. Can he still play? Yep but this is type of player I want to see moved especially at his current $9m cap. Could he sign at $3 m for two years sure but he can get much more. His bonus would have to be prorated and I just don't want to be in dead money hell like we use to be.

OD increase is not what you should look at but his cap hit each year $5.75 and $6.25m. We get rest of this season to see how Graham progresses, so far very good. If we are not aggressive, we will not be able to pay guys like Watt. I think Smith has been good at paying the bucks to the stars and signing low pay, possible high return guys in FA like Reed, Mays, Greg Jones and Lechler. Allowing Walter, Dreesen, Winston & Briesel to leave was another plus. I think my position is supported by UDFAs making roster. I am not saying we are in bad shape in regards to cap but need to remain on top with Chris Olsen.

htownfan32
09-20-2013, 02:53 PM
http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/papalrodz/Junk/JF.jpg

We could do without the circus, but the guy is basically a Michael Vick who can make throws. Why not?

Texian
09-21-2013, 10:42 AM
The Texans hisorically say they use rds1-3 for BPA. Reality is they draft for need. Hopkins/KJ/Watt/Mercilus/Tate etc... need picks.

Nailed it! One thing you can count on is Rick Smith the day before the draft lecturing the masses on how important it is to take the BPA. Then he proceeds to the draft room and first thing Texans do is reach for a positions of needs. They talk the talk but they certainly don't walk the walk.

Texian
09-21-2013, 11:00 AM
I think you get too aggressive with projections of cuts/not re-signing players. It is not as easy as saying well we have someone at the position so they'll be good enough and we save money. Smith makes money because his play is better by far than most With the free agent market the way it was last off-season and his age his cap hit can be severely reduced with a new contract.

OD is a situation beyond cap hit alone. You have to consider the impact on free agents, contract extensions and restructuring. Players aren't going to favor a team who doesn't deliver on contracts unless there has been a reduction in play quality. His contract only minimally goes up next year. It is not some giant balloon amount everyone knew wouldn't be paid. Instead of a cut, barring a letdown in production, he is also a target for an extension with lower salaries commensurate with new contracts.

I think it is a little more complicated than this. Almost all player decisions are based on making the most money (why Ed Reed is not a Raven). The biggest problem facing the Texans starting the 2014 league year is they have 38 players under contract and with Cushing's new contract and AJ restructure the Texans will start the 2014 new year approx $12 million under the cap. $12 million to sign 15 players, that doesn't do much, in fact it does very little for a 53 man roster. This pretty much mirrors the the start of the 2012 & 2013 seasons. No big FA contracts or signings, only allows for vet and rookie minimums and the Texans STILL have to restructure every year. Don't be surprised to see Smith and Daniels go the way of Barwin, Quin and Casey because they simply can't afford them. This will be the deciding factor.

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 11:24 AM
I think it is a little more complicated than this. Almost all player decisions are based on making the most money (why Ed Reed is not a Raven). The biggest problem facing the Texans starting the 2014 league year is they have 38 players under contract and with Cushing's new contract and AJ restructure the Texans will start the 2014 new year approx $12 million under the cap. $12 million to sign 15 players, that doesn't do much, in fact it does very little for a 53 man roster. This pretty much mirrors the the start of the 2012 & 2013 seasons. No big FA contracts or signings, only allows for vet and rookie minimums and the Texans STILL have to restructure every year. Don't be surprised to see Smith and Daniels go the way of Barwin, Quin and Casey because they simply can't afford them. This will be the deciding factor.

Yep,

For some reason the other top teams (SF/Seattle/NE/Denver/Chicago etc....) seem to be able to make moves to add big time FA's. The Texans always seem to be up against the cap. I dont know if this is due to Bob/ Olson/Rick/Gary's philosophy or they just aren't very good at cap management.

I've got a feeling they will try to keep the core together for 1 more yr. Then when is comes time to re-sign Watt there will be major cuts. Schaub/AJ/OD etc... This is one reason either they will draft the QB of the future or maybe they see T.J or Case as the future.

Anyway there is a 2 yr window. IMHO Unless Case becomes another Bady/Wilson etc....

Texian
09-21-2013, 11:46 AM
The Texans always seem to be up against the cap. I dont know if this is due to Bob/ Olson/Rick/Gary's philosophy or they just aren't very good at cap management.

I've got a feeling they will try to keep the core together for 1 more yr.

I attribute it to Head Coach Think vs GM Think. A Head Coach stays focused on the season at hand, a GM plans for the next 4 years. After the disastrous 2010 season and when Kubiak's hot seat was laced with red hot coals he mortgaged the future. Unfortunately they're now in salary cap hell from which they cannot escape without some kind of house cleaning. IMHO this is the Texans last year of the proverbial "The Window is Closing". One reason is because of the limited decisions that can made because of poor salary cap management. The others are Indy and Ten have been getting better each year. It also appears that JAX will get the #1 Franchise QB in next year's draft.

infantrycak
09-21-2013, 01:48 PM
I think it is a little more complicated than this.

I never even implied the state of the cap overall was not a consideration.

Nailed it! One thing you can count on is Rick Smith the day before the draft lecturing the masses on how important it is to take the BPA. Then he proceeds to the draft room and first thing Texans do is reach for a positions of needs. They talk the talk but they certainly don't walk the walk.

Or they didn't reach at all and the draftniks were just wrong aka Duane Brown. JJ Watt and Cushing certainly were not reaches and neither was KJ. Even bust Okoye wasn't a reach - the draftniks had him rated that high. Mario wasn't even a reach and arguably QB and RB were higher needs. Seems like you are example shy on your position.

Texian
09-21-2013, 02:20 PM
I never even implied the state of the cap overall was not a consideration.



Or they didn't reach at all and the draftniks were just wrong aka Duane Brown. JJ Watt and Cushing certainly were not reaches and neither was KJ. Even bust Okoye wasn't a reach - the draftniks had him rated that high. Mario wasn't even a reach and arguably QB and RB were higher needs. Seems like you are example shy on your position.

The ONLY BPA in your list of names is JJ Watt. The others were high positions of need and some were reaches regardless of what you have been led to believe. If you take off the Rose colored glasses it is clear to see that the Texans are clearly Reactive and not Proactive. It's called Coach Think vs GM Think!

infantrycak
09-21-2013, 02:42 PM
The ONLY BPA in your list of names is JJ Watt. The others were high positions of need and some were reaches regardless of what you have been led to believe. If you take off the Rose colored glasses it is clear to see that the Texans are clearly Reactive and not Proactive. It's called Coach Think vs GM Think!

Total BS. Being a position of need does not preclude someone from also being BPA such as Cushing. And there is no led to believe. Picking the worst result, Okoye was all over the place listed as value at our pick with a significant number of people ranking him to go before us.

Spare the silly false comparison. EVERY single GM in the league considers both BPA and need.

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 03:02 PM
Total BS. Being a position of need does not preclude someone from also being BPA such as Cushing. And there is no led to believe. Picking the worst result, Okoye was all over the place listed as value at our pick with a significant number of people ranking him to go before us.

Spare the silly false comparison. EVERY single GM in the league considers both BPA and need.

Things are sweet when BPA=Need.

I wanted Clay Matthews over Cushing as BPA when he was drafted. Pass rusher over MLB. Plus Matthews gene lines showed he was more likely to stay healthy. Even after Cushing was drafted I wanted Rick to trade back into the 1st rd and pick Matthews. Of course Rick waited and took Barwin in the 2nd. (I was high on Barwin too) and we see how that turned out. The Texans are still looking for a high end pass rusher today.

Who did you want Cushing or Matthews?

infantrycak
09-21-2013, 03:19 PM
Things are sweet when BPA=Need.

I wanted Clay Matthews over Cushing as BPA when he was drafted. Pass rusher over MLB. Plus Matthews gene lines showed he was more likely to stay healthy. Even after Cushing was drafted I wanted Rick to trade back into the 1st rd and pick Matthews. Of course Rick waited and took Barwin in the 2nd. (I was high on Barwin too) and we see how that turned out. The Texans are still looking for a high end pass rusher today.

Who did you want Cushing or Matthews?

Just like I thought during that draft, it was and is a toss up. I certainly would have cheered a move to get both.

Cushing was not drafted to be MLB. He played OLB his 1st two seasons including going to the pro-bowl and being named defensive rookie of the year at OLB over Matthews.

steelbtexan
09-21-2013, 03:28 PM
Just like I thought during that draft, it was and is a toss up. I certainly would have cheered a move to get both.

Cushing was not drafted to be MLB. He played OLB his 1st two seasons including going to the pro-bowl and being named defensive rookie of the year at OLB over Matthews.

You couldn't go wrong with either one of them.

The bold move to make would've been to move up and get both of them. Like the Packers did with Raji and Matthews.

Not crossing threads, but I'm worried that Grigson will make these bold moves and the Rick wont. If this happens it wont be long before the Texans pass the Texans in the standings again.

Texian
09-21-2013, 03:42 PM
Total BS.

Says who? Your responses make perfect sense by someone whose thought process is clouded by their own optimism and a belief that the Texans can do no wrong. That's perfectly understandable but it doesn't make it TOTAL BS.

Okoye's own college coach passed on him. If there ever was a consensus of who was the best player it was Patrick Willis. In fact Okoye's college accomplishments were not much better than average and ordinary. His Combine was better. In fact Okoye was a draft pick based on pure potential. 19 yrs old, 300 lbs and strong. He was suppose to get bigger, stronger and faster because was 19 but he didn't. What's the old saying Drafting based on potential will get you fired. Potential certainly doesn't = BPA.

Brown was drafted by Gibbs because of his run blocking and athletic ability to make back side blocks needed in the ZBS. Brown was drafted for Gibbs running game. A LOT is usually drafted for pass pro abilities. Brown's first 3 years in pass pro were atrocious, some of the worst in the league, his last 2 have been very good, this year hasn't looked so good.

Frank Bush made the decision to draft Cushing early in that season. In 2009 the Texans were in desperate need of another pass rusher. Clay Matthews was clearly the better pass rusher and athlete. You just can't ignore his 1.49 10 yd split or multi generation DNA. Cushing at USC was often on the sideline during passing downs, replaced Kaluka Maiava. For many, (including me) Matthews was clearly the BPA.

Kareem Jackson was a David Gibbs (now out of coaching) and Rick Smith pick. Jackson prep school (because of poor grades) transfer was deemed by a few scouts as the most ready for the NFL in a very weak CB class. That came mainly from being a Saban DB and Saban being a former NFL DB coach under Belichick. Evaluators have learned that is not so much the case today. Jackson stats and performances were for the most part middle of the pack in the SEC. Athletically Jackson was slightly above average. Jackson's first (3) years were woeful. Last year Jackson played well against passes under 20 yards but was still having problems with passes over 20+ yds. There were at least a half dozen players who were considered BPA over Jackson.

I understand optimism and do no wrong thinking to a point. In 2009 after firing Richard Smith (who had no experience as DC) and with several accomplished successful DC available, Gary Kubiak does NOT do (1) interview before hiring Frank Bush (who had no experience as DC), told me Kubiak's commitment to his friends exceeded any commitment to excellence. That's when I lost my optimism and thinking the Texans did no wrong.

gcates
09-21-2013, 03:49 PM
I really don't see the point in arguing about past drafts. They happened, for better or worse. Honestly, aside from Okoye, all the players being discussed have turned out quite well for the Texans. I'm pretty comfortable with the talent our team has acquired through the draft, and while yes, not all picks were home runs, that's simply the nature of the NFL Draft. Remember when Aaron Curry went 4th overall and was the clear cut best LB in the class with Cushing and Matthews? Didn't work out so well, did it? No such thing as a can't miss prospect, and even we as fans can be quite wrong with regards to the players we champion during the draft process.

All we can really do is say who we'd like and who we think they will take...after all they don't take our opinions into account on draft day, do they?

Texian
09-21-2013, 04:03 PM
He played OLB his 1st two seasons including going to the pro-bowl and being named defensive rookie of the year at OLB over Matthews.

When he was juiced. (which was also a very strong rumor prior to the draft) That Performance dropped noticeably after his suspension.

You couldn't go wrong with either one of them.

The bold move to make would've been to move up and get both of them. Like the Packers did with Raji and Matthews.

Not crossing threads, but I'm worried that Grigson will make these bold moves and the Rick wont. If this happens it wont be long before the Texans pass the Texans in the standings again.

Quite a few wanted Matthews because Texans were in desperate need of pass rusher opposite of Mario. This is an illustration in some of logic of Texans drafting. They draft Cushing who played primarily SLB/MILB at USC to play OLB. What's the first thing Wade does when he comes in, moves Cush to LILB where he had his best success while at USC.

gcates
09-21-2013, 04:06 PM
When he was juiced. (which was also a very strong rumor prior to the draft) Performance dropped after his suspension.



Quite a few wanted Matthews because Texans were in desperate need of pass rusher opposite of Mario. This is an illustration in some of logic of Texans drafting. They draft Cushing who played primarily MILB at USC to play OLB. What's the first thing Wade does when he comes in, moves Cush to MILB where he was so successful at USC.
I could have sworn Rey Maualuga was the MLB for the Trojans while he, Cushing and Matthews were there...and don't forget we were still running a 4-3 at the time.

Texian
09-21-2013, 04:22 PM
I really don't see the point in arguing about past drafts.

You know me when someone makes a blanket comment like, "Total BS" without any reason I am going to respond. Unlike others I do try to give reasoning, to my thinking.

I could have sworn Rey Maualuga was the MLB for the Trojans while he, Cushing and Matthews were there...and don't forget we were still running a 4-3 at the time.

Maualuga did play ILB, Cush played inside and out RILB/SLB. USC played some 4-3 & 3-4. Maualuga, Cushing, Matthews and Maiava all were drafted. USC also would bring in Maiava for Cush in some passing situations. While Matthews was on the field for most all passing downs.

76Texan
09-21-2013, 08:55 PM
The Trojans did line up with 3 DLs some, but on very few snaps.
I watched nearly 20 of their games the two years prior to 'em LB entering the draft.

Cushing played a vast majority on the outside.
I'm not even sure if he ever lined up in the middle at the second level.
My memory might be faulty; there's always a chance of that, but I think that probability is quite low.

76Texan
09-21-2013, 09:10 PM
If you google Pete Carroll 43 under defense, a ton of results will come up; that what he was known for.

Texian
09-21-2013, 09:19 PM
The Trojans did line up with 3 DLs some, but on very few snaps.
I watched nearly 20 of their games the two years prior to 'em LB entering the draft.

Cushing played a vast majority on the outside.
I'm not even sure if he ever lined up in the middle at the second level.
My memory might be faulty; there's always a chance of that, but I think that probability is quite low.

You're right. Cushing played SLB primarily. In 2007 USC created the Elephant (hybrid) position in order to get Matthews on the field because he was that good as he was backing up Keith Rivers at the time (Rivers a Top 10 draft pick). Because of the success they stayed with it in 2008. In the 4-3 Matthews played DE and in the 3-4 he played ROLB. When USC was in a 4-3 in some passing situations Kaluka Maiava would come in for Cushing. The Trojans when in a 3-4, LBs would line up, Maiava-Cushing-Maualaga-Matthews. Actually to be more technically correct Carroll used a 5-2 much like Wade's D with Matthews on the End standing up and Cushing and Maualaga were the 2. Much like the way Carroll is using Bruce Irvin in Seattle. The 2008 USC Defense is considered one of the best defenses of all time.

infantrycak
09-21-2013, 10:37 PM
Frank Bush made the decision to draft Cushing early in that season.

Ah, I see. You are one of those people who thinks they have a magic 8-ball that shows them the inner workings of every Texans' decision.

PS - my opinions have nothing to do with optimism. Your slinging that around toward those who disagree with you is just a poor attempt at a bullying rhetorical device.

Texian
09-22-2013, 09:34 AM
Ah, I see. You are one of those people who thinks they have a magic 8-ball that shows them the inner workings of every Texans' decision.

PS - my opinions have nothing to do with optimism. Your slinging that around toward those who disagree with you is just a poor attempt at a bullying rhetorical device.

NO! I have already linked a video of Frank Bush saying he knew early in the season that he wanted Cushing and he would be the pick if Cush was available. There was no magic 8 ball. You're the one that resorts to name calling and outlandish comments (total BS) without any logic, reasoning or explanation whatsoever to support your excuses or argument.

Those with tunnel vision never see the other side of logic. They see truth, logic and deductive reasoning as bullying rhetorical devices and their own excuses are never backed up with any reasonable explanations. The fact that you don't see yourself as overly optimistic or that your attitude towards the Texans is they can do no wrong is similar to a greedy or spoiled person not thinking they're are greedy or spoiled. You may not see yourself as such but you definitely talk the talk and walk the walk of a Die Hard, Overly Optimistic, Texans can do no wrong fan. And there is nothing wrong with that.

beerlover
09-22-2013, 09:46 AM
You're right. Cushing played SLB primarily. In 2007 USC created the Elephant (hybrid) position in order to get Matthews on the field because he was that good as he was backing up Keith Rivers at the time (Rivers a Top 10 draft pick). Because of the success they stayed with it in 2008. In the 4-3 Matthews played DE and in the 3-4 he played ROLB. When USC was in a 4-3 in some passing situations Kaluka Maiava would come in for Cushing. The Trojans when in a 3-4, LBs would line up, Maiava-Cushing-Maualaga-Matthews. Actually to be more technically correct Carroll used a 5-2 much like Wade's D with Matthews on the End standing up and Cushing and Maualaga were the 2. Much like the way Carroll is using Bruce Irvin in Seattle. The 2008 USC Defense is considered one of the best defenses of all time.

This is accurate from what I watched too, never considered USC defense one of best ever, but certainly had the tools & in mix for best in country that year.

NCTexan
09-22-2013, 01:01 PM
OT unless Williams shows something for next year. We need something behind Duane and Newton is getting shredded.

Rock N Randy
09-27-2013, 08:47 AM
Cush played multiple positions through out his tenure at USC
He was their best defender plain and simple

Which shows till this day

He played Weak and Strongside
He could play middle but didn't need too
He played OLB/DE
Elephant hybrid role.

he is a true defender plug and play

I wanted him from the get go and pleased we got him
He is better than Matthews then and now
That year it was Cushing or Matthews
Couldn't go wrong really but I preferred Cushing and glad we got him and I would make the same pick till this day

badboy
09-27-2013, 09:22 AM
Cush played multiple positions through out his tenure at USC
He was their best defender plain and simple

Which shows till this day

He played Weak and Strongside
He could play middle but didn't need too
He played OLB/DE
Elephant hybrid role.

he is a true defender plug and play

I wanted him from the get go and pleased we got him
He is better than Matthews then and now
That year it was Cushing or Matthews
Couldn't go wrong really but I preferred Cushing and glad we got him and I would make the same pick till this dayGive me an ILB that can cover in late 2nd or third to watch. I have UCONN's Yawin Smallwood in 2nd round now. Hope to watch him against Buffalo tomorrow afternoon.

Rock N Randy
09-27-2013, 09:35 AM
Give me an ILB that can cover in late 2nd or third to watch. I have UCONN's Yawin Smallwood in 2nd round now. Hope to watch him against Buffalo tomorrow afternoon.

Why the 2nd RD? I'm all in on CJ Mosley from Bama he will be a pro bowler I was all in last year but he returned surprisingly as a top 15 pick.
Defenders are abundant in this years draft and a few backers will drop

A few others I really like AJ Johnson from Tenn and Christian Jones from FSU.
Both Johnson&Jones are ranked in the 2nd RD currently. Another name is Andrew Jackson from Westren Kentucky is another impressive inside back but unlike the other 3 I mentioned he can not cover he is a thick, down hill, wrecking ball. Strictly a 1st&2nd down inside backer but A backer of value and skill that will be desirable because what he does even though limited he does so well.

Mosley is the leader of the best defense and is pro ready and pro coached and is a do it all inside out and multiple formations
Basically it doesn't matter what scheme what formation anything... Mosley will play and play well and lead on all downs.
Johnson&Jones are similar I prefer Johnson both are hustle guys and are sideline too sideline backers and both can handle the middle weather attacking the line and filling the gaps or disguising and back pelting out and covering
Both are very athletic and dynamic

Mosley is the cream of the crop though but Johnson&Jones can get the job done. I don't know how they will fair in a 3-4 scheme though jones is a little on the small side with height and weight I prefer for my 34IlB same with Johnson but I think Johnson can handle it he is a little nasty and kind of badger like
I think Johnson would find a way too get the job done and both can add weight and get bigger