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TEXANRED
08-28-2013, 03:26 PM
Funny how the good one's always seem to get hurt right before roster cuts.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/08/houston_texans_place_former_sy.html

PapaL
08-28-2013, 03:28 PM
Funny how the good one's always seem to get hurt right before roster cuts.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/08/houston_texans_place_former_sy.html

What a surprise! Hope that "right hamstring injury" heals up by next year. :tiphat:

DocBar
08-28-2013, 09:23 PM
How does this work out money-wise? What's the benefit of Lemon allowing the Texans to place him on IR instead of allowing him to look for work elsewhere? He seemed to flash enough talent to get some looks elsewhere.

Corrosion
08-28-2013, 09:33 PM
How does this work out money-wise? What's the benefit of Lemon allowing the Texans to place him on IR instead of allowing him to look for work elsewhere? He seemed to flash enough talent to get some looks elsewhere.

For the most part , it guarantee's his contract for the season , he may or may not get a deal with another team .... Being an UDFA , the safe bet is to take the $$ and sit.
He'll spend a year with the team .... giving him the time to absorb the offense and have a solid shot at making next years 53.

DocBar
08-28-2013, 09:45 PM
For the most part , it guarantee's his contract for the season , he may or may not get a deal with another team .... Being an UDFA , the safe bet is to take the $$ and sit.He'll spend a year with the team .... giving him the time to absorb the offense and have a solid shot at making next years 53.That makes sense and also explains why I don't gamble. I rarely take the safe bet. :D

So he gets the rookie minimum for his time on IR? I mean, there has to be some kind of financial reward for this.

Corrosion
08-29-2013, 12:51 AM
That makes sense and also explains why I don't gamble. I rarely take the safe bet. :D

So he gets the rookie minimum for his time on IR? I mean, there has to be some kind of financial reward for this.

I don't know how much his contract was to begin with , but most likely a rookie min deal. That's something like $470k I believe ... If he likes the situation here and his chances to make the roster next season I can see why he went that route.

Wolf6151
08-29-2013, 03:07 AM
That makes sense and also explains why I don't gamble. I rarely take the safe bet. :D

So he gets the rookie minimum for his time on IR? I mean, there has to be some kind of financial reward for this.

The reward is that he gets a guaranteed paycheck for a year while taking no risk of real injury by playing also giving him time to really learn our system and put him that much further ahead for next year. If released he also runs the chance that no one picks him up, no paycheck. I really like this move and like what I saw from Lemon in preseason. Our new found depth at WR should remove the position from our list of needs in the 2014 draft.

Lucky
08-29-2013, 07:27 AM
What's the benefit of Lemon allowing the Texans to place him on IR instead of allowing him to look for work elsewhere?
Allowing the Texans? Lemon is under contract with the Texans. He can either accept going on IR or retire. Not much of a choice.

PapaL
08-29-2013, 07:55 AM
Plus he get's the medical coverage; ok not like our staff has an outstanding record but beats not having any while recovering from that "right hamstring injury".

IDEXAN
08-29-2013, 09:02 AM
Allowing the Texans? Lemon is under contract with the Texans. He can either accept going on IR or retire. Not much of a choice.
Great for management, but that sucks for the union guy, and I'm a confirmed union-hater. Honestly, that really is an injustice. I dunno, is this the way its always been, or something else found in the new CBA ?
Wonder what the definition is for an injury to meet the level of qualifying for being "IR", and how is that verified by the league ?

Tailgate
08-29-2013, 09:48 AM
Great for management, but that sucks for the union guy, and I'm a confirmed union-hater. Honestly, that really is an injustice. I dunno, is this the way its always been, or something else found in the new CBA ?
Wonder what the definition is for an injury to meet the level of qualifying for being "IR", and how is that verified by the league ?

For all we know Lemon is extatic he is still with the team.

Corrosion
08-29-2013, 09:48 AM
Great for management, but that sucks for the union guy, and I'm a confirmed union-hater. Honestly, that really is an injustice. I dunno, is this the way its always been, or something else found in the new CBA ?
Wonder what the definition is for an injury to meet the level of qualifying for being "IR", and how is that verified by the league ?

What's so bad about a fringe player who may or may not have a season long roster spot getting a full seasons NFL salary ?!?

Who's to say he would perform the same in a different offense .. he could be a system player , not to take anything away from the guy cause he has found himself open a hell of a lot.

nero THE zero
08-29-2013, 10:57 AM
Great for management, but that sucks for the union guy, and I'm a confirmed union-hater. Honestly, that really is an injustice. I dunno, is this the way its always been, or something else found in the new CBA ?
Wonder what the definition is for an injury to meet the level of qualifying for being "IR", and how is that verified by the league ?

I can't fathom the idea that this is "bad" for him. It means, tangibly, that he is getting paid a nice salary for at least the next 16 weeks and, intangibly, that an NFL team thinks enough of him to subvert the rules to keep him around.

Sounds like damn nice situation to be in to me.

BullNation4Life
08-29-2013, 11:07 AM
Can't they pull him off IR during the year? If so, that is a great way squirrel away a great player...

ChampionTexan
08-29-2013, 11:15 AM
Great for management, but that sucks for the union guy, and I'm a confirmed union-hater. Honestly, that really is an injustice. I dunno, is this the way its always been, or something else found in the new CBA ?
Wonder what the definition is for an injury to meet the level of qualifying for being "IR", and how is that verified by the league ?

The current CBA changed nothing in regard to how IR works, nor how the contracts of players being placed on IR are handled. Lemon's getting the full amount his one year contract stipulated, and the Texans maintain his rights for the remainder of the league year. While there are some instances where I could understand an accusation of injustice regarding NFL contracts, I don't comprehend why this would be one of them.

2012Champs
08-29-2013, 11:19 AM
The current CBA changed nothing in regard to how IR works, nor how the contracts of players being placed on IR are handled. Lemon's getting the full amount his one year contract stipulated, and the Texans maintain his rights for the remainder of the league year. While there are some instances where I could understand an accusation of injustice regarding NFL contracts, I don't comprehend why this would be one of them.

The NFL and NFLPA agreed last year to a change for the IR allowing a team to pull a single player off IR under certain scenarios and allow them to play

ChampionTexan
08-29-2013, 11:21 AM
Can't they pull him off IR during the year? If so, that is a great way squirrel away a great player...

They can't. A team can have a player return from injured reserve during the year, but that is limited to one player per year per team, and that player must be designated as eligible to return at the time he's placed on injured reserve. That designation also can't be used until after the final cutdown (to 53) is completed.

PapaL
08-29-2013, 11:21 AM
Can't they pull him off IR during the year? If so, that is a great way squirrel away a great player...

They can designate one player to pull off of IR.

http://russellstreetreport.com/cap-glossary/

Injured Reserve (IR) – Once a player is placed on Injured Reserve (IR), the player is done for the season and can not practice with the team until after the completion of the season. A player on Injured Reserve (IR) does not count against any roster limit, but does count against the team’s Salary Cap.

A player can be released from Injured Reserve (IR) once he has passed his physical and has been deemed to be recovered from his injury or if the player and team agree to an Injury Settlement. The player is then free to sign elsewhere and can participate in games for the new team.

In August of 2012, the NFL and NFLPA agreed to a new IR rule that allows a team to designated 1 player for an in-season IR spot which allows that player to return later in the season. The player has to be on the team’s 53-man roster on the Tuesday before the 1st game of the season and could then be placed on IR with the designation of “designated to return”. After that the player would have to sit out for 6 weeks, during which he cannot practice. After 6 weeks, the player could practice for 2 weeks and then be activated to the 53-man roster. The player must sit out a minimum of 8 weeks.

ChampionTexan
08-29-2013, 11:23 AM
The NFL and NFLPA agreed last year to a change for the IR allowing a team to pull a single player off IR under certain scenarios and allow them to play

I'm aware of that, but that wasn't part of the CBA negotiated in 2011. There's also nothing in that agreement that impacts Lemon's situation.

Doppelganger
08-29-2013, 11:23 AM
Can't they pull him off IR during the year? If so, that is a great way squirrel away a great player...

They could but its doubtful. IR players are generally unable to practice with the team. The theory is if you are on IR, you are hurt and cannot practice. Normally the practice of pulling a player off the IR would be for a veteran who got hurt early and is coming back, such as Terrell Suggs.

Lemon is a rook who has not gotten any significant first team reps. It is highly doubtful he would go from there to playing on the team.

PapaL
08-29-2013, 11:32 AM
I'm aware of that, but that wasn't part of the CBA negotiated in 2011. There's also nothing in that agreement that impacts Lemon's situation.

It was negotiated in 2012. I posted it above your response. Lemon would be eligible if they so designate him as the one.

CuseFan
08-29-2013, 11:46 AM
I can't fathom the idea that this is "bad" for him. It means, tangibly, that he is getting paid a nice salary for at least the next 16 weeks and, intangibly, that an NFL team thinks enough of him to subvert the rules to keep him around.

Sounds like damn nice situation to be in to me.

This is the equivalent of the NFL Redshirt. Keeps him with the team, in the system, strength and conditioning, etc., and shows the team sees him as a potential contributor for the future.

He probably wants to play in 2 weeks - the team is thinking 2 years down the line.

Ben Frank
08-29-2013, 11:47 AM
If Jean doesn't make progress, I can see Lemon stealing his spot next year

Corrosion
08-29-2013, 11:55 AM
If Jean doesn't make progress, I can see Lemon stealing his spot next year

You could add Martin to the list of guy's job he may take in the future.

IDEXAN
08-29-2013, 12:02 PM
I can't fathom the idea that this is "bad" for him. It means, tangibly, that he is getting paid a nice salary for at least the next 16 weeks and, intangibly, that an NFL team thinks enough of him to subvert the rules to keep him around.

Sounds like damn nice situation to be in to me.
I don't think being obligated not to play for a whole year is equitable to Lemon, even if he's compensated. If he's willing to do that, fine, but if not he should be released and given the opportunity to negotiate an employment arrangement elsewhere in the NFL.

infantrycak
08-29-2013, 12:09 PM
I don't think being obligated not to play for a whole year is equitable to Lemon, even if he's compensated. If he's willing to do that, fine, but if not he should be released and given the opportunity to negotiate an employment arrangement elsewhere in the NFL.

You're talking about a guy who had a 5% chance of making a team and 4% of that was with the Texans. This guarantees him a damn good salary this year and an improved chance with the Texans next year having worked with the team for a year.

phantom17
08-29-2013, 12:29 PM
If Jean doesn't make progress, I can see Lemon stealing his spot next year

Or D Posey if he never fully recovered from his Achilles injury!:rake:

CuseFan
08-29-2013, 12:35 PM
I don't think being obligated not to play for a whole year is equitable to Lemon, even if he's compensated. If he's willing to do that, fine, but if not he should be released and given the opportunity to negotiate an employment arrangement elsewhere in the NFL.

Fair or not, this is a strategic move by the team. Regardless what another poster wrote about a 5% chance of playing, I'd peg it at closer to 90% chance that had he been placed on the PS he would have been picked up by another team.

Putting him on IR keeps him in the fold, besides he has a 3 year contract with the team - even if every year is an option year...

drs23
08-29-2013, 01:42 PM
For all we know Lemon is extatic he is still with the team.

That Sir, is exactly my thought as well. Damn good money and job security while having another year to learn the system. It's a no lose situation for Mr. Lemon.

Wish I could find a gig like that!

IDEXAN
08-29-2013, 02:48 PM
You're talking about a guy who had a 5% chance of making a team and 4% of that was with the Texans. This guarantees him a damn good salary this year and an improved chance with the Texans next year having worked with the team for a year.
I get all of that, and this might very well be, actually probably is the best thing for him in terms of his own financial security because most young athletes have inflated, really unrealistic expectations of their ability to succeed. And I'm certainly not a union-guy, not in the least a sympathizer of the NHL Players union. I'm very much a company man.
However I still think he should be given the option to work elsewhere in the league, ill advised as it might be for him to walk away from this deal if he could do so.

nero THE zero
08-29-2013, 03:06 PM
I get all of that, and this might very well be, actually probably is the best thing for him in terms of his own financial security because most young athletes have inflated, really unrealistic expectations of their ability to succeed. And I'm certainly not a union-guy, not in the least a sympathizer of the NHL Players union. I'm very much a company man.
However I still think he should be given the option to work elsewhere in the league, ill advised as it might be for him to walk away from this deal if he could do so.

He's not being kept from working in the league.

He is working in the league. He is receiving a paycheck from an NFL organization and is receiving organizational benefits (coaching, nutrition, S&C, etc.)

Much ado about nothing.

Corrosion
08-29-2013, 03:27 PM
Wish I could find a gig like that!

~$470k a year to sit on the trainers table .... yeah , count me in.


I'll even show up early ..... and stay late so long as the trainer chick is somewhat hot.

gafftop
08-29-2013, 09:46 PM
I like Lemon better than Jean. Do not trust Jean to catch the ball.

Corrosion
08-30-2013, 12:13 AM
I like Lemon better than Jean. Do not trust Jean to catch the ball.

That touchdown he caught from Keenum is a prime example , despite the fact that he caught it , that he isn't starting quality .... He let the ball fall into his hands rather than going to get it.

I want receivers that attack the ball , not let it hit them in the helmet (last week).

Ben Frank
08-30-2013, 01:56 AM
You could add Martin to the list of guy's job he may take in the future.

I agree K. Martin needs to step up this year, Posey come's in after not playing football for months and make plays

the wonger need food
08-30-2013, 02:31 AM
Bonner and Trevardo may be joining him soon...

avb
08-30-2013, 11:29 AM
I like Lemon better than Jean. Do not trust Jean to catch the ball.

I don't trust Keyshawn Martin's hands either. Hopefully Posey will supplant both of them soon and be the third receiver.