PDA

View Full Version : Dustin Keller injury... wow


Playoffs
08-18-2013, 12:27 PM
Wow...

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Dolphins TE Dustin Keller tore his ACL, MCL, PCL and, as if that weren't enough, dislocated his knee, per source.
Armando Salguero ‏@ArmandoSalguero
Three torn ligaments and a dislocated kneecap for Dustin Keller. Docs also fear nerve damage. Career is on the line.

http://i.imgur.com/D9BDNAk.png

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Swearinger told me last night he got 3 helmet to helmet penalties at S Carolina that cost his team. That's when he taught himself to go low.

Swearinger hopes Keller recovers quickly (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/52596/d-j-swearinger-conditioned-himself-to-hit-low-hopes-dustin-keller-recovers-quickly)

"With the rules in this era you’ve got to hit low," Swearinger said. "If I would have hit him high, I would have gotten a fine. So I think I made the smartest play. I’m sorry it happened and I pray he has a speedy recovery. ... Right now it’s just instinct. You see somebody come across the middle, you gotta go low. You’re going to cost your team 15 yards. You’ve got to play within the rules."

DJ Swearinger ‏@JungleBoi_Swagg
Everybody pray 4 Dustin Keller....I pray you have a speedy recovery bro...and kill it when you get back.... DEFINITELY wasn't intentional..

EllisUnit
08-18-2013, 12:36 PM
well now after this season you will not be allowed to go low anymore either. I wonder if the flags will be team color coordinated or if they will use the generic yellow flags for flag football. But then that would conflict with the refs flags.

Oh well either way i wont be watching :kitten:

EllisUnit
08-18-2013, 12:46 PM
http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?77660-Keller-Done-For-The-Year-(Tears-ACL-MCL-PCL-knee-dislocated)/page5

Dolphins calling DJ, dirty. Thats B.S even after he apologized. DJ is right the NFL has made high hits illegal so now days players are taught to tackle low.

htowntexans1985
08-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Tania Ganguli @taniaganguli
RT @RapSheet : To add Dustin Keller's
woes (torn ACL, MCL, PCL, dislocated
knee cap), @ArmandoSalguero says docs
fear nerve damage. Scary.


Looked as bad as bad as it sounds. That's what Goodell wanted. Players to go low. Avoid the head. Well Roger, ask Keller where he would have rather got hit last night.

Rey
08-18-2013, 12:55 PM
Aaaaaaand that's why guys like to get hit up high.

The problem with the rules that I have is that they penalize for incidental contact instead of blatant head hunting. They don't take into account natural football movement.

So now you're going to have more guys getting hit down low. I don't like to see that for any player.

But instead of reversing and allowing some leeway for defenders you're going to have the league now say you can't take away the legs and now wr's will start to get qb treatment.

Playoffs
08-18-2013, 02:10 PM
I think Swaeringer's whiff against the Vikings contributed to it, as well...

Rookie D.J. Swearinger vows to learn from mistake
August 9, 2013 (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/08/rookie-d-j-swearinger-vows-to-learn-from-mistake/)
In the first half, rookie safety D.J. Swearinger missed a tackle, which is rare for him. One reason he was drafted was because of his tackling ability.

I should have gone for his legs and made the sure tackle instead of trying to blow somebody up, he said. Ill learn from that mistake.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2013, 05:21 PM
Tania Ganguli @taniaganguli
RT @RapSheet : To add Dustin Keller's
woes (torn ACL, MCL, PCL, dislocated
knee cap), @ArmandoSalguero says docs
fear nerve damage. Scary.


Looked as bad as bad as it sounds. That's what Goodell wanted. Players to go low. Avoid the head. Well Roger, ask Keller where he would have rather got hit last night.

The knee cap dislocation is the least of all of his problems. As I've mentioned before, you can take for granted knee JOINT dislocation with combined ACL, MCL, and PCL ruptures. And you can also take for granted that there would be significant meniscus tears.

As for the nerve damage. The nerve that is in question is the peroneal nerve, a nerve that lies superficial at the lateral portion of the knee, poorly protected without any overlying cushioning. It can sustain a direct crush injury due to the hard hit to the lateral knee, or can be torn (sometimes in 2) by a shearing caused by knee joint or even patellar (knee cap) dislocation.

http://www.osteoarthritisblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/peroneal1.jpg

If this nerve is damaged, it can cause some areas of lower leg anesthesia (sensory loss)............

http://www.chiro.org/ChiroZine/FULL/Paresthesias_files/mckfig3.jpg

but most worrisome, it can cause "foot drop" [the loss of ability to flex your foot upwards.....a motion that you need just to walk] (motor loss).

fiasco west
08-18-2013, 07:05 PM
http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?77660-Keller-Done-For-The-Year-(Tears-ACL-MCL-PCL-knee-dislocated)/page5

Dolphins calling DJ, dirty. Thats B.S even after he apologized. DJ is right the NFL has made high hits illegal so now days players are taught to tackle low.

Hopkins was also hurt before that by result of a low tackle as well, I forgot who hit him though but it was a low hit. The only difference is that Hopkins leg was not planted as firmly as Keller's.

At this point I hope Keller is able to play in the NFL again, his injury sounds career threatening. Hate that it happens, but DJ did what so many players do. I hope the NFL doesn't respond next year by saying "You only must wrap up now." would ruin the league IMO.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2013, 07:46 PM
My main concern about this play is that after the League reviews it, they will come up with Swearinger "leading with the helmet."

thunderkyss
08-18-2013, 07:54 PM
http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?77660-Keller-Done-For-The-Year-(Tears-ACL-MCL-PCL-knee-dislocated)/page5

Dolphins calling DJ, dirty. Thats B.S even after he apologized. DJ is right the NFL has made high hits illegal so now days players are taught to tackle low.

Then you're seeing something I'm not... Dustin Keller is in mid air. Swearinger is trying to get him low. He misjudges how low he needs to get. Dustin plants and Swearinger gets him in the knee. As soon as he saw Keller injured, he looked concerned and went over to him.

Swearinger shouldn't have dropped his head. Plain and simple. It's never a good idea to do that. Head up, eyes up, and perhaps this doesn't happen. Bad form? OK. Intentional? Come on...

Swearinger's hit was legal and clean. I IMO, don't like those type of hits, but it's still a clean hit.

The others are just trying to take care of their guys, just like we would. Remeber the crap we said about the guy that took out Cush? Or what we said about Joe Mays when he popped Schaub?

infantrycak
08-18-2013, 08:18 PM
The others are just trying to take care of their guys, just like we would. Remeber the crap we said about the guy that took out Cush? Or what we said about Joe Mays when he popped Schaub?

Both of those were flagged and fined hits, one with a suspension.

IDEXAN
08-18-2013, 10:14 PM
The others are just trying to take care of their guys, just like we would. Remeber the crap we said about the guy that took out Cush? Or what we said about Joe Mays when he popped Schaub?

Of course there's a different set of rules for blocking vs tackling.

GlassHalfFull
08-18-2013, 10:33 PM
I made this comment today while watching the replay. Basically, we talk about what a guy should or shouldn't have done. It isn't like they have time to run thru a multiple possibility scenario before acting. It is a split second, instinct decision. Training and muscle memory come into play. Ascribing motives is a bit much in this situation.

ArlingtonTexan
08-19-2013, 12:17 AM
The knee cap dislocation is the least of all of his problems. As I've mentioned before, you can take for granted knee JOINT dislocation with combined ACL, MCL, and PCL ruptures. And you can also take for granted that there would be significant meniscus tears.

As for the nerve damage. The nerve that is in question is the peroneal nerve, a nerve that lies superficial at the lateral portion of the knee, poorly protected without any overlying cushioning. It can sustain a direct crush injury due to the hard hit to the lateral knee, or can be torn (sometimes in 2) by a shearing caused by knee joint or even patellar (knee cap) dislocation.

http://www.osteoarthritisblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/peroneal1.jpg

If this nerve is damaged, it can cause some areas of lower leg anesthesia (sensory loss)............

http://www.chiro.org/ChiroZine/FULL/Paresthesias_files/mckfig3.jpg

but most worrisome, it can cause "foot drop" [the loss of ability to flex your foot upwards.....a motion that you need just to walk] (motor loss).

If I am reading you correctly, keller could not only have his career over, but there is a (negative) realistic chance that he won't walk correctly

CloakNNNdagger
08-19-2013, 08:31 AM
If I am reading you correctly, keller could not only have his career over, but there is a (negative) realistic chance that he won't walk correctly

If the nerve were only bruised or only stretched, he still has a good chance of having the nerve "go to sleep" with loss of varying function for as long as 1-2 years to fully rehab........some do not return full function. If this injury resulted in true crushing or tearing apart of the nerve with or without the decision to surgically repair, you can expect the potential of much lesser return to no functional return, as determined at the 2 year mark. Either way, this part of the injury could easily be devastating to a football player's career....and possibly change his out-of-sport life forever.

Lucky
08-19-2013, 08:38 AM
Has there ever been a study regarding career ending injuries by position played? I know RBs have a short shelf life. QBs a lengthy career. Wonder what the numbers are for offensive vs. defensive players?

CloakNNNdagger
08-19-2013, 12:21 PM
Has there ever been a study regarding career ending injuries by position played? I know RBs have a short shelf life. QBs a lengthy career. Wonder what the numbers are for offensive vs. defensive players?

No! only return to play studies, such as ACL studies showing 20% no return, etc., and isolated lists of players from various sources..........but not compilation data that I am aware of.

CloakNNNdagger
08-19-2013, 12:26 PM
Feel very bad for this young man, as he had an injury-filled 2012 season dealing with hamstrings and a severe high ankle sprain. He refused a multi year deal with the Dolphins in lieu of his 1 year deal because he felt he was worth more and wanted to prove his worth this year, playing for a better contract. He definitely demonstrated some great chemistry with Tannehill.

Playoffs
08-20-2013, 09:36 AM
Brian Hartline: Swearinger's excuse on Keller hit was 'crap' (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000231986/article/brian-hartline-swearingers-excuse-on-keller-hit-was-crap)

Dolphins right tackle Tyson Clabo was critical of the Texans rookie after Houston's 24-17 win, and Miami receiver Brian Hartline isn't buying what Swearinger is selling, either.

"Crap. I mean, I think that, me personally ... (what) you're telling me is 'Oh, I'm still worried about going high or hurting the head,'" Hartline told WQAM-AM on Tuesday.

"So you consciously went low then, is what you're trying to tell me," Hartline said. "... I'm not a defensive player. So I don't sit here and assume right off the bat. But what I do know is that I have a lot of good pros on my team and, from what they have said to me, is that (there) is no place for that in the game today."...

HJam72
08-20-2013, 09:55 AM
1. Don't hit them in the helmet.

2. Don't hit them at or below knees.

New coaching technique: Aim for the GROIN. :kubepalm:

Double Barrel
08-20-2013, 10:16 AM
Aaaaaaand that's why guys like to get hit up high.

The problem with the rules that I have is that they penalize for incidental contact instead of blatant head hunting. They don't take into account natural football movement.

So now you're going to have more guys getting hit down low. I don't like to see that for any player.

But instead of reversing and allowing some leeway for defenders you're going to have the league now say you can't take away the legs and now wr's will start to get qb treatment.

yep. These kinds of injuries were predicted when the league started going after incidental contact. I expect to see more of them. Hate it, but it is what they are teaching players to avoid getting fined and suspended.

gwallaia
08-20-2013, 10:42 AM
1. Don't hit them in the helmet.

2. Don't hit them at or below knees.

New coaching technique: Aim for the GROIN. :kubepalm:

The NFL will need to start hiring MLB umpires to help officiate games to make calls in the strike zone.

gwallaia
08-20-2013, 10:47 AM
Brian Hartline calls Swearinger's hit "crap".

Hartline It's crap. I think that, me personally, if you're sitting there telling me 'I'm worried about going high and for the head,' [and] you consciously went low then [that] is what you're trying to tell me

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9584359/brian-hartline-miami-dolphins-criticizes-houston-texans-safety-dj-swearinger-hit-dustin-keller

Playoffs
08-20-2013, 10:53 AM
Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL
Never heard of an unwritten rule against tackling low, which is why you see it IN EVERY SINGLE NFL GAME.

Pete Prisco ‏@PriscoCBS
So there is heat on Swearinger for the tackle on Keller? Don't go high, so where can you tackle?

CloakNNNdagger
08-20-2013, 01:42 PM
1. Don't hit them in the helmet.

2. Don't hit them at or below knees.

New coaching technique: Aim for the GROIN. :kubepalm:

........but miss the jewels.............:D

76Texan
08-20-2013, 02:37 PM
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=9584359&src=desktop

Hartline wants to play flag football. :lol:

Rey
08-20-2013, 02:41 PM
What are they going to do when a guy gets hit in the chest and gets his sternum cracked or broken?

I've seen it happen. Twice.

eriadoc
08-20-2013, 02:50 PM
What are they going to do when a guy gets hit in the chest and gets his sternum cracked or broken?

I've seen it happen. Twice.

Drew Bledsoe effectively had his career derailed by a blow to the chest.

CloakNNNdagger
08-20-2013, 03:11 PM
What are they going to do when a guy gets hit in the chest and gets his sternum cracked or broken?

I've seen it happen. Twice.

That is a nasty injury. I've cared for several patients with a fractured sternum Two died. The mortality has be found to be between 25 and 45 %, due to associated injuries to the underlying aorta, heart, and lung structures.

Fred Smooth I think was a DB for the Redskins, who suffered a fracture of the sternum. I heard an interview where he related that he couldn't stand up straight and had to sleep in a recliner for 4 months because he couldn't lie flat in bed either.

If I remember correctly , Dwight Howard also had this injury some years ago and was out of commission for quite a while.

LikeMike
08-20-2013, 03:12 PM
Its pretty easy: when you have some of the fastest and strongest man go at each other full speed and force, you will have injuries. No matter where you hit them. But that`s football. You can change the rules again and only allow wrap up tackling and hits to the upper body - we would see way more flags and I don`t think that much less injuries. If you want to have this game injury free, you need to eliminate the hits - and if you do that, you can as well just stop playing it.

gwallaia
08-20-2013, 03:33 PM
The whining and crying by Dolphin fans on the ESPN boards is unbearable. I'm not sure what their thin-skin is more upset by, the injury to Keller or their innocent little man Incognito. One Dolphin fan is urging that Smith be charged with attempted murder.

The1ApplePie
08-20-2013, 03:45 PM
A freak accident.

This isn't the "Target their surgically repaired knee on QB kneeldowns," Shanahan Broncos

htownfan32
08-20-2013, 06:04 PM
The whining and crying by Dolphin fans on the ESPN boards is unbearable. I'm not sure what their thin-skin is more upset by, the injury to Keller or their innocent little man Incognito. One Dolphin fan is urging that Smith be charged with attempted murder.

Yeah, I've seen this too. The way they talk it's like we derailed their soon-to-be Superbowl run or something

EllisUnit
08-20-2013, 06:23 PM
Man do we suddenly look like the dirtiest team in the NFL after 2 pre season games :lol:

And who were they calling soft :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
08-20-2013, 07:19 PM
Man do we suddenly look like the dirtiest team in the NFL after 2 pre season games :lol:

And who were they calling soft :kitten:

Well, at least the helmets are hard, ya know?:kitten:

EllisUnit
08-20-2013, 07:34 PM
Well, at least the helmets are hard, ya know?:kitten:

haha thats for sure.

CloakNNNdagger
08-21-2013, 09:55 AM
Look down the page and blow up the pic of Swearinger tackling Keller...........Look Ma, no hands!


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=6&ved=0CEsQqQIoADAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.chron.com%2Fultimatetexans%2 F2013%2F08%2Fwith-arian-foster-watching-ben-tate-is-starting-for-texans%2F&ei=89EUUo7mNMLN2QW8jYHIDg&usg=AFQjCNHvLR1poTu3KZ_eJCN4DiRfyGvYug&sig2=5xdQBeJMGymv3_ndsBl16g&bvm=bv.50952593,d.b2I

hookinreds
08-21-2013, 10:02 AM
Dustin Keller, do you want to know why your knee was unintentionally blown out by rookie DJ Swearinger? Just ask rookie Jon Bostic about the $21K fine the NFL just gave him for his clean hit to the chest of Mike Willie. Ridiculous!!!

Double Barrel
08-21-2013, 10:11 AM
A buddy was trying to play devil's advocate last night by saying that Swearinger should have wrapped him up instead of tackling low.

I 'won' the debate by simply pointing out that a player who is in the process of wrapping up can be easily penalized if the receiver just tucks his head. A defender cannot go Matrix and change his trajectory in mid-air, so it leaves him in the position of trying to do the right thing but at the mercy of the receiver who can position himself to get hit high.

We are going to see more of these kinds of leg injuries as a result of the league's severe policy on incidental contact. Defenders will have no choice if they want to be sure that they won't get flagged and penalized by a system that continuously elevates the fines.

I understand how Dolphins fans feels, but they need to direct their ire toward the NFL, not the individual player who is just trying to play within ever-narrowing rules.

disaacks3
08-21-2013, 10:15 AM
........but miss the jewels.............:D

I was thinking Crown (of the helmet) ON the jewels. :eek:

PapaL
08-21-2013, 10:24 AM
Jon Bostic reportedly fined $21,000 for hit against Chargers; LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/jon-bostic-reportedly-fined-21000-for-hit-against-chargers/)

...Bostic was fined $21,000 for a hit against the Chargers in last week’s preseason game.

Briggs compared Bostic’s hit to the one that knocked Dolphins tight end Dustin Keller out for the season and, as many others have done with similar hits, wondered why the former is illegal while the latter is legal. Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network confirmed Briggs’ report and adds that Bostic was fined for lowering his head while hitting a defenseless receiver.

VIDEO LINK (http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/0ap2000000230462/Bostic-s-spectacular-tackle-forces-incompletion)

hookinreds
08-21-2013, 10:29 AM
NFL calling it "lowering his head against a defensless receiver", not the new "leading with the helmet rule"...I call it something different. Willie took two steps in Bostics direction after catching the ball. NFL will now require all defensive players to behead themselves and hold it under their arms so that they will lead with their shoulder pads.https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1119966_10201664743046551_374750125_o.jpg

HJam72
08-21-2013, 10:34 AM
That was a NASTY hit. That guy's going to accidentally hit somebody in the head (eventually), and they are not going to wake up while at the same address.

ArlingtonTexan
08-21-2013, 10:59 AM
I was thinking Crown (of the helmet) ON the jewels. :eek:

Had a guy I played with in high school that was Swearingered directly in the jewels (non-intentional when he coming down from a catch). Basically went to the hospital for a week-10 days and did not walk correctly 1 month or so. did eventually play again and apparently no long-term damage to his ability to have a family.

Of course, as "sensitive" teenage dudes, we gave him the name "grape nuts"

Rey
08-21-2013, 02:54 PM
Bostic hit was fined?!

Lmao!!!!hahaaaahhaaa.....bwahhhaaahaaaa...:spit:

NFL called the play spectacular at first. Then fined him later.

Lmao!!!!!

Too many ridiculous fines and flags these days. I will not hesitate to stop watching when it becomes unwatchable.

PapaL
08-21-2013, 02:56 PM
Bostic hit was fined?!

Lmao!!!!hahaaaahhaaa.....bwahhhaaahaaaa...:spit:

NFL called the play spectacular at first. Then fined him later.

Lmao!!!!!

Too many ridiculous fines and flags these days. I will not hesitate to stop watching when it becomes unwatchable.

Brandon Harris was also just fined $21k for his shot on that receiver. Swearinger may be a rookie but he had an extra $21k in pocket today.

Rey
08-21-2013, 02:59 PM
Seriously though...that bostic find saddens me. I had forgot about the Watt fine last year and the one his rookie year against the colts. This stuff is starting to put a damper on my excitement for the season.

Playoffs
08-21-2013, 03:05 PM
Bostic hit was fined?!

I thought same until it was slowed down...

http://i.minus.com/ibT5utHhCE0pm.gif

I can see their point but I don't support the fine/trend.

thunderkyss
08-21-2013, 03:12 PM
I thought same until it was slowed down...

http://i.minus.com/ibT5utHhCE0pm.gif

I can see their point but I don't support the fine/trend.

I remembered the hit & thought they're out of their minds.

then I saw a blown up photo from the front side of the receiver where it looked like Bostic put his helmet into the receiver's chest & I was like.... "eh.. I see their point."

Now after watching your slow mo... looks like he was trying to get his head down, away from the receiver's helmet & most of the impact was on his shoulder, not his helmet.

I honestly don't know what to make of the whole thing

Rey
08-21-2013, 03:35 PM
I realize everyone will have their opinions on all this stuff, and that's fine. I'm not going to argue about what hits I think should and shouldn't be allowed anymore. I just find it comically sad at this point. So, whatever...

Double Barrel
08-21-2013, 05:49 PM
Too many ridiculous fines and flags these days. I will not hesitate to stop watching when it becomes unwatchable.

I was thinking about this today when they were having the same conversation on the radio.

I never imagined a point where I would lose interest in the NFL. And while I'm still interested, I am starting to see a point in the not-too-distant future where they have over-regulated the game to the point that it is no longer entertaining to watch. When this happens, I find something better to do on Sundays.

This is not a threat or anything, but just a statement as a consumer that the product that I grew up loving is slowly being diluted to something where my frustration with regulations overshadows my enjoyment.

Lucky
08-21-2013, 07:15 PM
Jon Bostic reportedly fined $21,000 for hit against Chargers; LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/jon-bostic-reportedly-fined-21000-for-hit-against-chargers/)

So ridiculous. The receiver had turned up field with the ball. He wasn't defenseless, he actually saw the tackler and got lower to absorb the hit (a natural reaction). If the helmets ever touched, it was because the receiver went low. I'm pretty sure that whoever is coming up with these fines never played a game of football in their life.

infantrycak
08-21-2013, 07:41 PM
I'm pretty sure that whoever is coming up with these fines never played a game of football in their life.

Actually I want to say he was a safety.

Bostic will be paying $5955 not $21k. The CBA sets a max on fines at 25% of one paycheck and Bostic makes $405k.

Blake
08-22-2013, 02:00 PM
Note to all NFL'ers. Hit like Bostic and lose money. Hit like Swearinger and have some media people say nasty things about you.

I think the choice is easy.

Wolf
08-22-2013, 06:59 PM
Bostic lead with the crown is why..Swearinger didn't

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/why-hit-against-dustin-keller-not-fined-jon-140505413.html

Competition committee is going to review the Swearinger hit.


For conversational sake

My thought... It was a nasty clean hit. I hate that it happened to Keller or if it happened any player. Swearinger said he was going lower so he wouldn't hit him in the head and avoid the fine..ok I see at..say the NFL says no hitting below the thighs..man,we are talking about a strike zone in baseball area. With two moving targets and they expect a safety to react that fast not knowing if the receiver is going to duck down or not?

Double Barrel
08-23-2013, 02:41 PM
If the NFL ever turns tackling into some arbitrary concept like baseball's strike zone, I think this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

CloakNNNdagger
08-23-2013, 04:52 PM
It's interesting to read this piece about Pollard, concerning the approaching "NFL strike zone." It appeared in January of this year.

Bernard Pollard talks NFL extinction and death on the football field (http://ocnnreport.com/2013/01/28/bernard-pollard-talks-nfl-extinction-and-death-on-the-football-field/)

Rey
08-23-2013, 04:56 PM
Just take the pads off of the db's, wr's, and qb and go to two hand touch.

CloakNNNdagger
08-23-2013, 05:12 PM
Just take the pads off of the db's, wr's, and qb and go to two hand touch.

TWO hands????? That's gonna get too pushy...........someone's bound to get hurt!!!!:cool:

On second thought, with one hand, there're gonna be too many wrist injuries!!:thinking:

I've got it.........."Finger Pointing Football".......

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/97581611-football-player-pointing-photos-com.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=B53F616F4B95E553CC6166EB646ADEAD7CC1FCB6A0430ED4 9FEECE92CF64A0C21D842B4D5671C9AA

YOU'RE TACKLED!!!!!!!

TejasTom
08-27-2013, 07:32 AM
Just as a reminder, Lance Berkman tore his ACL playing flag football in 2004.

Blake
08-27-2013, 07:49 AM
Just as a reminder, Lance Berkman tore his ACL playing flag football in 2004.

To be fair, baseball players tear ACLs by playing with kids or walking outside.

Scooter
08-27-2013, 08:07 AM
the hate that swearinger is getting can only be described with several 4 letter words. a defensive back going low to tackle a +80lb tightend has been the way of life for decades. with the focus on not hitting high from defensive backs (against receivers lowering themselves), their only resource is to go low. to have a problem with it is bullshtuff.

the crawling-kneecap block against williams however is exactly why cushing rule was added. there is zero need to blindside a defensive player in the knees. the only cut block i'm ok with is within a second of the snap ... after that you get your hands on the guy. if you have to resort to submarining a defender, you dont belong past the LOS.

Lucky
08-27-2013, 04:48 PM
Flag Football, here we come (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-look-hits-knees-142707486--nfl.html).
The NFL will keep a close eye on hits to the knees of defenseless players this season, with the possibility of extending the rules protecting such players.

If the league's competition committee finds enough evidence this season that hits to the knees are ''becoming a problem,'' it could take action, chief of football operations Ray Anderson told The Associated Press on Tuesday.


The committee could make a recommendation to the owners next March to prohibit direct hits to the knees of defenseless players. The owners would then vote on such a change.

Playoffs
08-27-2013, 05:05 PM
Flag Football, here we come (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-look-hits-knees-142707486--nfl.html).

http://i.imgur.com/f0UG72j.gif

Hervoyel
08-28-2013, 01:03 PM
http://i.imgur.com/f0UG72j.gif

It's a tiny clip I slow-motion but I can't get over the fact that situational awareness probably could have prevented him from getting hurt like that. Look at his head, he's not even paying attention to the man in front of him about to take him down. Reminds me of a variety of hits I've seen over the years where someone is bouncing down the field blissfully going through the motions and then gets annihilated by a guy he should have seen coming and would have if he'd been paying attention.

I admit, it's a big assumption based on this little clip but that's the first thing that came into my mind. He's watching the ball carrier I know but just because you're not directly involved in the play doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to protect yourself.

drs23
08-28-2013, 03:37 PM
It's a tiny clip I slow-motion but I can't get over the fact that situational awareness probably could have prevented him from getting hurt like that. Look at his head, he's not even paying attention to the man in front of him about to take him down. Reminds me of a variety of hits I've seen over the years where someone is bouncing down the field blissfully going through the motions and then gets annihilated by a guy he should have seen coming and would have if he'd been paying attention.

I admit, it's a big assumption based on this little clip but that's the first thing that came into my mind. He's watching the ball carrier I know but just because you're not directly involved in the play doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to protect yourself.

Anyone can express their personal opinions for sure. Mine is that that was a CS hit. He could have stayed high and accomplished his goal without the risk of injuring the guy. I think it's inexcusable.

But like all things football many folks see things many different ways. I can almost be assured that if that hit was on one of our guys the sentiment would be entirely different.

2012Champs
08-29-2013, 10:07 AM
It's a tiny clip I slow-motion but I can't get over the fact that situational awareness probably could have prevented him from getting hurt like that. Look at his head, he's not even paying attention to the man in front of him about to take him down. Reminds me of a variety of hits I've seen over the years where someone is bouncing down the field blissfully going through the motions and then gets annihilated by a guy he should have seen coming and would have if he'd been paying attention.

I admit, it's a big assumption based on this little clip but that's the first thing that came into my mind. He's watching the ball carrier I know but just because you're not directly involved in the play doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to protect yourself.



Most of these guys are either locked up with their man or tracking the ball carrier. Im not really sure how you would expect him to follow the ball carrier and turn his head 90 degrees from where the ball is to make sure someone isnt going to take his knee out.

Hervoyel
08-29-2013, 04:05 PM
Most of these guys are either locked up with their man or tracking the ball carrier. Im not really sure how you would expect him to follow the ball carrier and turn his head 90 degrees from where the ball is to make sure someone isnt going to take his knee out.

This is why I said that I understood that it was just a small, slow-motion clip. None of these guys are locked up with their man. Three of them have the ball carrier dead to rights, a fourth is too wide to get in on the fun, Williams is jogging across the screen away from the ball carrier and #33 is standing there watching it all happen. From the look of the clip William's head is turned toward the ball carrier but he's moving away from him toward the sideline. Had the player who hit him went higher he'd have still been obliterated. He didn't even seem to be aware that he was running right into an opposing player.

Three other Vikings are making the play and Williams is no more involved in it than #33 at the bottom of the screen. They're both slowing down and watching their teammates make the tackle (from the look of this small, slow-motion clip)

It is something of a cheap shot hit. I'm not saying it isn't that. The 49er isn't a little guy. He could have just wiped out Williams or avoided contact entirely (might have in the regular season but who knows, preseason, jobs on the line maybe?) but he didn't.

But I've heard for years almost every season when someone gets blown up like this that you have to protect yourself out there and be aware that until the whistle is heard you can get hit, blocked, or hurt. It's just a bad idea to be jogging into the path of another player without looking where you're going during an NFL play. Nothing good comes from that.

2012Champs
08-29-2013, 04:09 PM
This is why I said that I understood that it was just a small, slow-motion clip. None of these guys are locked up with their man. Three of them have the ball carrier dead to rights, a fourth is too wide to get in on the fun, Williams is jogging across the screen away from the ball carrier and #33 is standing there watching it all happen. From the look of the clip William's head is turned toward the ball carrier but he's moving away from him toward the sideline. Had the player who hit him went higher he'd have still been obliterated. He didn't even seem to be aware that he was running right into an opposing player.

Three other Vikings are making the play and Williams is no more involved in it than #33 at the bottom of the screen. They're both slowing down and watching their teammates make the tackle (from the look of this small, slow-motion clip)

It is something of a cheap shot hit. I'm not saying it isn't that. The 49er isn't a little guy. He could have just wiped out Williams or avoided contact entirely (might have in the regular season but who knows, preseason, jobs on the line maybe?) but he didn't.

But I've heard for years almost every season when someone gets blown up like this that you have to protect yourself out there and be aware that until the whistle is heard you can get hit, blocked, or hurt. It's just a bad idea to be jogging into the path of another player without looking where you're going during an NFL play. Nothing good comes from that.



Its pretty clear from the short clip even that he and the back were running in the same direction and the back reverses course/cuts back and thus when his knee gets blown up the runner isnt headed that way anymore

Hervoyel
08-29-2013, 04:26 PM
Its pretty clear from the short clip even that he and the back were running in the same direction and the back reverses course/cuts back and thus when his knee gets blown up the runner isnt headed that way anymore

That's not clear at all but you would argue with a rock if someone came by every now and then and turned the rock over to make it appear interested.

The clip begins with the back move to the left side of screen (from our perspective) and Williams moving to the right side of the screen. He doesn't change direction at all. He stops and then steps backwards.

2012Champs
08-29-2013, 05:34 PM
That's not clear at all but you would argue with a rock if someone came by every now and then and turned the rock over to make it appear interested.

The clip begins with the back move to the left side of screen (from our perspective) and Williams moving to the right side of the screen. He doesn't change direction at all. He stops and then steps backwards.



Watch it again and see how many Vikings are moving to the right at the start and the back is moving to his leftp/planting and comes back to his right.

Hervoyel
08-29-2013, 10:21 PM
Watch it again and see how many Vikings are moving to the right at the start and the back is moving to his leftp/planting and comes back to his right.

What difference does it make? None. The point that Williams was running to his right without regard to the 49er in front of him remains whether Williams was running to his right while tracking the ball carrier or running to his right because he saw a steak dinner with his name on it along the sidelines. It makes no difference at all. He still displays no situational awareness and running through a play with tunnel vision focusing only on the ball carrier is like running through a play with a blindfold on and hoping you don't get hit.

The reason I get tired of talking to you is that you will find a quibbling detail in a post and then sidetrack the entire conversation over it. **** gets old man. Back to the ignore list you go. May I never be foolish enough to remove you from it again.

Scooter
08-29-2013, 10:49 PM
What difference does it make? None. The point that Williams was running to his right without regard to the 49er in front of him remains whether Williams was running to his right while tracking the ball carrier or running to his right because he saw a steak dinner with his name on it along the sidelines. It makes no difference at all. He still displays no situational awareness and running through a play with tunnel vision focusing only on the ball carrier is like running through a play with a blindfold on and hoping you don't get hit.

you're correct, he's not paying enough attention to his surroundings. williams has it coming if the lineman blasts him in the chest with a de-cleater. the 300+lb lineman using that much effort to target a knee is where the problem is, to me it was an obvious attempt to injure. whether or not williams should've protected himself has zero bearing on the play.

ChampionTexan
08-29-2013, 10:52 PM
you're correct, he's not paying enough attention to his surroundings. williams has it coming if the lineman blasts him in the chest with a de-cleater. the 300+lb lineman using that much effort to target a knee is where the problem is, to me it was an obvious attempt to injure. whether or not williams should've protected himself has zero bearing on the play.

So you're saying this is kind of like blaming a victim because she dressed like a tramp?

2012Champs
08-30-2013, 07:32 AM
What difference does it make? None. The point that Williams was running to his right without regard to the 49er in front of him remains whether Williams was running to his right while tracking the ball carrier or running to his right because he saw a steak dinner with his name on it along the sidelines. It makes no difference at all. He still displays no situational awareness and running through a play with tunnel vision focusing only on the ball carrier is like running through a play with a blindfold on and hoping you don't get hit.

The reason I get tired of talking to you is that you will find a quibbling detail in a post and then sidetrack the entire conversation over it. **** gets old man. Back to the ignore list you go. May I never be foolish enough to remove you from it again.




You cant watch the ball and watch everyone around you. So despite your best advice that his situational awarness should be better it is not always practicle given the many angles things can come from and the speed in which this game moves.


The reason you get tired is because you bring up stupid **** and if someone points it out you cant admit you are incorrrect. Go back and read my first response to you and you will see there is nothing to get your panties twisted yet you got there anyhow

Rey
08-30-2013, 07:34 AM
you're correct, he's not paying enough attention to his surroundings. williams has it coming if the lineman blasts him in the chest with a de-cleater. the 300+lb lineman using that much effort to target a knee is where the problem is, to me it was an obvious attempt to injure. whether or not williams should've protected himself has zero bearing on the play.

That's wasn't much force.

Keep your head on a swivel isn't just an old wives tale. That guy wasn't trying to injure him, he was trying to get him on the ground.

infantrycak
08-30-2013, 07:59 AM
You cant watch the ball and watch everyone around you. S

See below.

Keep your head on a swivel isn't just an old wives tale.

Exactly. Been watching this exchange and that saying keeps screaming out.

2012Champs
08-30-2013, 08:18 AM
See below.



Exactly. Been watching this exchange and that saying keeps screaming out.



And it is a good saying just not all that realistic that it can be done all the time. Look at how many vikings are locked on the back its 4-5 and they arent looking to their right or left to see if someone is about to blow them up.

As an aside I dont mind him getting hit I just dont like to see the knee getting jammed like it did

Hervoyel
08-30-2013, 08:56 AM
See below.



Exactly. Been watching this exchange and that saying keeps screaming out.

Yes, that's the only point I've tried to make. I'm picturing Chad Clifton and Warren Sapp (which was of course up high) but very similar in that Clifton was watching the play and not his immediate surroundings. I remember watching a Texans player blow up a guy on an interception return when we played the Raiders in Reliant Stadium years ago. That clip was posted often. Keep that head on a swivel because ultimately no one can protect you out there but you.

2012Champs
08-30-2013, 10:31 AM
Yes, that's the only point I've tried to make. I'm picturing Chad Clifton and Warren Sapp (which was of course up high) but very similar in that Clifton was watching the play and not his immediate surroundings. I remember watching a Texans player blow up a guy on an interception return when we played the Raiders in Reliant Stadium years ago. That clip was posted often. Keep that head on a swivel because ultimately can protect you out there but you.



I believe the nfl made a rule change about blowing people up on int returns

infantrycak
08-30-2013, 11:32 AM
I believe the nfl made a rule change about blowing people up on int returns

I think they expanded the QB rule (the one which led to the fine against the Chargers player for blowing up Schaub). Don't think it would apply here though. It is worded akin to if you are not in pursuit of the play so if you are jogging toward the ball you can still get blown up.

Rey
08-30-2013, 11:40 AM
Is the argument now, that he shouldn't have blocked him at all? Honest question.

2012Champs
08-30-2013, 11:49 AM
Is the argument now, that he shouldn't have blocked him at all? Honest question.


Not from me. I just hate to see the route he took to the knee

2012Champs
08-30-2013, 11:59 AM
I think they expanded the QB rule (the one which led to the fine against the Chargers player for blowing up Schaub). Don't think it would apply here though. It is worded akin to if you are not in pursuit of the play so if you are jogging toward the ball you can still get blown up.



I dont think it applies to the above play but he did mention a Texans Int play in his post. Point being is that you cant just blow another player up just because his head isnt on a swivel. I think this is the addition to the rule


Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless
posture.
(a)�� Players in a defenseless posture are:
OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 73
(1)�� A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2)�� A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to
protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or
warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3)�� A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4)�� A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5)�� A player on the ground at the end of a play;
(6)�� A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return;
(7)�� A quarterback at any time after a change of possession, and
(8)�� A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and
approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.