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Tailgate
08-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Its still early, but our OLBs seem to be our glaring weakness on D moving forward.

With Cush back, the signing of Mays, Sharpton healthy, Joseph 100%, Ed Reed, Swearinger, flashes of upgrade from Mitchell... We have the makings of a nasty D health considered. But we really need an outside pass rush to become truly dominant imo. Who is going to step it up at OLB this year?

Candidates:

Reed - I have little faith in him as more than a high motor back up special teams player at the moment. Looked average again on Friday.

Mercilus - The dude had some sacks in his rookie campaign. But they seemed to all be effort sacks much in the mold of Reed.

T Williams - I really liked this pick but I cant find a single positive review thus far.

Montgomery - Some loved this pick, but I didnt get it. Hoping I was wrong. Dude needs to get over the injury/conditioning cloud that seems to be hovering over him early on. This guy my have the most upside.

Braman - Love the guy, but if he doesnt surface soon not sure if he ever will.

Jefferson - Another Brayman in the making? Chicken legs concern me, but love his explosiveness.

I think we are all going to be keeping a close eye on this crew. Right now, I see a whole lot of average at best. The most important thing to me is for Whitney to prove himself a first round pick. I need at least flashes, like yesterday.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 01:07 PM
Braman

Tailgate
08-11-2013, 01:12 PM
Braman

10-4

Sidenote: Texans have invested a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th into this unit over the past 3 drafts.

DocBar
08-11-2013, 01:25 PM
I'm with ya, Tailgate. I'm just as worried about run defense as I am pass rush, though.
It's gonna be Reed and Merci starting but I'm thinking we'll be seeing more of Jefferson as the season goes on and he gets his bulk and strength up.

Braman hasn't had a great camp, from what I understand. Just a career ST star, from what I can tell. He doesn't appear to have a very high football IQ.

I really liked the Montgomery pick. I'm really hoping the leaders on the D and the coaching staff can give him an attitudinal adjustment and keep him from going all Travis Johnson on us. Has some very good upside, but is off to a disasterous start.

T. Williams should be good depth in the future. He'll probably contribute before Montgomery and I've heard/read decent reports on him in TC.

Scooter
08-11-2013, 01:33 PM
i really liked what i saw from braman. he did a good job of using leverage and didnt allow the linemen to get their hands on him, using his very long arms to make separation. he definitely seems to be paying attention in class. i dont know that he'll develop into anything more, but i would certainly keep him around as a backup and special teamer - that's a guy you want on your team.

everyone else? well i hope watt and ninja have big years getting to the passer, because our linebackers outside of cushing are pretty bad.

Texn4life
08-11-2013, 01:34 PM
I've heard nothing but negative reports on Williams. I want to see more of Braman with the 1st unit. Some guys are just not really good practice players, but find an extra gear when the lights come on. I thought Reed looked quick the other night, and I think Merci will be ok. Between Sam, Willie, and Braman we'll be fine. Williams looks like he might be the odd man out right now. Wouldn't be surprised if we picked someone up who gets waived after TC as well.

texanhead08
08-11-2013, 01:34 PM
This position is a reason I think Texan fans need to tone down their expectations for this team this season.

DocBar
08-11-2013, 01:56 PM
i really liked what i saw from braman. he did a good job of using leverage and didnt allow the linemen to get their hands on him, using his very long arms to make separation. he definitely seems to be paying attention in class. i dont know that he'll develop into anything more, but i would certainly keep him around as a backup and special teamer - that's a guy you want on your team.

everyone else? well i hope watt and ninja have big years getting to the passer, because our linebackers outside of cushing are pretty bad.I think Joe Mays will be a good player for us. I'm not as worried about the ILB's as I am the OLB's.

The Pencil Neck
08-11-2013, 02:04 PM
I think Joe Mays will be a good player for us. I'm not as worried about the ILB's as I am the OLB's.

Yeah, that's kinda freaking me out.

Before TC, I was really, really worried about the ILBs. Now? That's not worrying me as much.

I'm not too worried about Brooks Reed. But I need Mercilus to make a big leap from year 1 to year 2 and I need some of these rookies to step up, otherwise we're looking at picking up a street FA to stick into the rotation. I'm not expecting Braman to be anything other that ST and maybe situational pass rush.

Jefferson and Trevardo Williams ended up in coverage a lot more than I expected.

:wadepalm:

We've got a long way to go with our OLBs.

LikeMike
08-11-2013, 02:04 PM
i really liked what i saw from braman. he did a good job of using leverage and didnt allow the linemen to get their hands on him, using his very long arms to make separation. he definitely seems to be paying attention in class. i dont know that he'll develop into anything more, but i would certainly keep him around as a backup and special teamer - that's a guy you want on your team.

everyone else? well i hope watt and ninja have big years getting to the passer, because our linebackers outside of cushing are pretty bad.

I think some people are too negative on Mercilus. He didn`t get that much playing time last season, still got lots of sacks (for a rookie) and a couple of forced fumbles. Reed is more of a LB to stop the run and being relentless, but that`s ok for one side of the field. He can and he will get some sacks, just not double digit sacks.

Yeah, OLB is a question mark, but we need to give those young guys some time... With some more help from the inside they should take the next step.

phantom17
08-11-2013, 02:09 PM
It's too early to tell, but I'm starting to get a little worried about these guys. The lack of a pass rush from these guys is what will sink this team! JJ (S)Watt can't do it all by himself........again!:wadepalm:

DX-TEX
08-11-2013, 02:45 PM
I stated before TC started this was my biggest area for concern. Im hoping someone decent gets cut or just released in the next couple weeks. I don't have ANY confidence in anyone currently on the roster at this position.

amazing80
08-11-2013, 02:45 PM
Im not overly concerned about our starters, but depth is a concern. We will know what its like in 2 weeks vs the Saints. If we continue to get pressure up the gut, we will eventually open up the lanes outside.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 03:25 PM
Im not overly concerned about our starters, but depth is a concern. We will know what its like in 2 weeks vs the Saints. If we continue to get pressure up the gut, we will eventually open up the lanes outside.

Actually, getting Cushing, Watt, & Antonio on the field is probably going to make these scrubs look like Pro Bowlers.

Vinny
08-11-2013, 04:18 PM
to me, our outside linebackers have been unremarkable for a while now. The Viking game didn't help. The best OLB we've had lately is Mario Williams. Too early to panic though. I'm hoping they continue to grow into their roles.

Hervoyel
08-11-2013, 04:24 PM
Actually, getting Cushing, Watt, & Antonio on the field is probably going to make these scrubs look like Pro Bowlers.

Exactly. I have no worries at all about the LB's, Not a single one. It's gonna be fine once the big dogs get on the field with them. Then they'll find the going a lot easier as the offense tries to control Watt, Cushing, and Smith (and Mitchell from the looks of things)

We'll be fine.... unless the injury bug shows up. Nobody can entirely overcome that.

Uncle Rico
08-11-2013, 04:43 PM
maybe I was drunk but it seemed to me that Reed was collapsing the pocket the plays he was in there leading to some sacks by interior defensive linemen. I don't think you can judge an OLB solely by sacks. Who else will have the experience to drop back when asked? I think Reed starts opposite Mercilus with the youngsters rotating in or playing situational roles. As some of you have said, funny what will happen when Sgt Slaughter and the Ninja get back to work.

DocBar
08-11-2013, 07:06 PM
Exactly. I have no worries at all about the LB's, Not a single one. It's gonna be fine once the big dogs get on the field with them. Then they'll find the going a lot easier as the offense tries to control Watt, Cushing, and Smith (and Mitchell from the looks of things)

We'll be fine.... unless the injury bug shows up. Nobody can entirely overcome that. The :koolaid: is :cjeremy635: with this one. :hothboy:

:kitten:

Rey
08-11-2013, 07:30 PM
Reed looked good to me. He looked like he lost a little weight, but he still looks strong. He looks good rushing and playing on the edge. I'm not worried about him.

And tuggle actually looked good to me. He looks stronger than the other guys that played out there. Willie has some talent. But he stands up too high at times and is easily pushed around. I thi k he's good enough to be a back up this year and pass rush guy.

Trevardo is fast but that's it.

I thought Braman looked really good. I think he is ready to take meaningful snaps. Hopefully merciless has improved. If he has I thi k our LB corps as a whole is going to be pretty good. I think we are going to be fine there.

76Texan
08-11-2013, 07:37 PM
The Texans showed a ton of 4-man fronts last year;
I think Jamison might see some snaps here, the way he played last night.

Hervoyel
08-11-2013, 08:05 PM
The :koolaid: is :cjeremy635: with this one. :hothboy:



I ain't about to deny it!

:drunk: :fans: :drunk:

Number19
08-11-2013, 08:18 PM
I've been disappointed that Braman has had such a poor camp; and my expectations for the dude has taken a bit of a nosedive. But he was the only OLB to get to the QB against the Vikings. Three more preseason games; we'll see who's the "sack leader" by the end of camp.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 09:46 PM
I thought Braman looked really good. I think he is ready to take meaningful snaps. Hopefully merciless has improved. If he has I thi k our LB corps as a whole is going to be pretty good. I think we are going to be fine there.

In addition to changing my critique of Pleasant (in another thread) I'm changing my position of Braman. I think he'll look really strong when we get 99, 94, & 56 in the game.

Rey
08-11-2013, 11:00 PM
I know sharpton plays inside, but I though he looked good as well.

76Texan
08-11-2013, 11:13 PM
I know sharpton plays inside, but I though he looked good as well.

I thought he did well, too; however, there were too few snaps between him and Mays to evaluate either one of them.

Knowing that, what was your impression of the two?

Rey
08-11-2013, 11:18 PM
I thought he did well, too; however, there were too few snaps between him and Mays to evaluate either one of them.

Knowing that, what was your impression of the two?

I thought they both looked good. Both looked like they were ready to play. Of course like you said, not enough snaps though. Couldn't really see how they'd hold up in pass coverage for multiple snaps, but I saw mays make a nice stop on a run up the middle and sharpton impressed me most with his blitzing. Seemed to have a good feel for that. I think if they'd have been here last year they'd have been better than the guys we had.

And I think either guy would look fine next to Cushing. However, I'm leaning more towards sharpton. He looked fast and decisive on the field.

76Texan
08-12-2013, 12:33 AM
I thought they both looked good. Both looked like they were ready to play. Of course like you said, not enough snaps though. Couldn't really see how they'd hold up in pass coverage for multiple snaps, but I saw mays make a nice stop on a run up the middle and sharpton impressed me most with his blitzing. Seemed to have a good feel for that. I think if they'd have been here last year they'd have been better than the guys we had.

And I think either guy would look fine next to Cushing. However, I'm leaning more towards sharpton. He looked fast and decisive on the field.

I just went back and looked at them carefully, and I agree with you.
I tend to lean toward Sharpton as well.
He was solid to very strong in all the snaps.

The only thing I'd have liked to see from Mays is to take on the OL a little stronger on one play (that or work to get off the guy a little better.)
On another run play, I'm not sure of the assignment, so I can't really complain.
But if it was a one-gap assignment, I would have like for him to attack that gap sooner. There's a possibility for for a TFL or little to no gain there (with help from others.)

Overall, I think they both did well in the limited number of snaps.

Tailgate
08-19-2013, 11:20 AM
Anyone feeling any better about this unit after Saturday?

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2013, 12:10 PM
Anyone feeling any better about this unit after Saturday?

I've still got question marks.

I'm hoping Mercilus is the guy we drafted him to be because that's going to make a lot of our issues on the outside disappear. But we haven't seen it, yet.

What I've been kinda surprised about is that after all the talk, we're starting Tuggle at Sam and Reed at Will. I would have expected Reed at Sam.

Willie Jefferson and Braman have flashes on passing downs but they scare me against the run. Willie seems to have the edge and I think, with a little experience, he's going to develop into something special. Unfortunately, we need that "something special" now.

If it was up to me given what I've seen so far, I'd go with:
1. Mercilus
2. Reed
3. Tuggle
4. Jefferson
5. Braman

And that leaves Trevardo Williams and Sam Montgomery either IR'd or on the PS. Those two have really got to make a lot of progress the next two weeks or it's going to make some decisions really, really hard.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2013, 12:10 PM
Anyone feeling any better about this unit after Saturday?

Nope! I don't think we'll see Trevardo and Montgomery contributing much on anything but STs this season. So that leaves us with:

Jefferson
Tuggle
Mercilus
Reed
Braman

Unspectacular if you ask me. Plus, other than Reed, weaker against the run.

IDEXAN
08-19-2013, 12:34 PM
We should brace ourselves for a real surprise, maybe even a shocker at this position when it comes to selection of the final 53-man roster because it is absolutely critical to have effective outside backers in the 3-4 defense and we are seeing much more production from undrafted players than the Draft pics.
The starters, Mercilus & Reed, are the givens but after that all bets are off with either OLB Draft pics here, Williams & Montgomery, even with a very consevative HC like Kubiak. He's got to get production here to have a really successful defense and also don't forget that Wade Phillips might have even more input about who makes the final roster on the defense than Kubiak.

76Texan
08-19-2013, 12:51 PM
It's too early to start counting chicken.
These draft picks all had seen injury that has been keeping them behind schedule.
They didn't put them on IR, so it looks to me that they are leaning toward keeping them.
But who knows, we might see one or two guys mysteriously suffer an injury in the next two games and getting IRed.

DX-TEX
08-19-2013, 02:01 PM
Anyone feeling any better about this unit after Saturday?

lol no.

Playoffs
08-19-2013, 02:18 PM
ProFootballFocus (http://www.profootballfocus.com/) is rating preseason games this year -- cumulatively for OLBs taking >25% of defensive snaps...

Willie Jefferson, then Brian Braman have "plus" grades so far. Wille is 3rd/79; Brian 7th/79.

None have negative overall grades, but Tuggle & Reed have "minus" pass rush grades and Trevardo has a "minus" run grade.

These are super small samples that, even though "normalized", still lend weight to players with more snaps. The small sample size overweights a single play. And this is all against varied, typically poor, competition.

My eyes haven't seen the issue with Reed on pass rush; but I have seen Willie get stoned when the lineman gets his hands on him. I have seen Tuggle struggle in pass rush and Trevardo struggle against the run.

So what I envision is a bunch of strategic substituting. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

thunderkyss
08-19-2013, 05:26 PM
Nope! I don't think we'll see Trevardo and Montgomery contributing much on anything but STs this season. So that leaves us with:

Jefferson
Tuggle
Mercilus
Reed
Braman

Unspectacular if you ask me. Plus, other than Reed, weaker against the run.

I was telling my wife how impressed I was at Tuggle's ability to set the edge... I thought he did a good job. I was also impressed with how deep he got on some of his drops... a lot of those timed I wondered why he got so deep, but that's another story.

I think Tuggle will be fine against the run. It's possible he can help our pass defense. The only thing I don't like about him is I see no value as a pass rusher.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

DX-TEX
08-19-2013, 05:31 PM
Saints just cut Chase Thomas. Anyone know anything about him? His pre draft info looked pretty damn good actually:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631925/chase-thomas

WOW! BRB wanted us to draft him in the 2nd round:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/1/18/3892440/scouting-report-chase-thomas

Playoffs
08-19-2013, 05:47 PM
PDS ‏@PatDStat
#Texans OLB snaps vs. Dolphins. Jefferson (31) Tuggle (24) Braman (22) Reed (19) Montgomery (18) T. Williams (16)

76Texan
08-19-2013, 06:02 PM
Saints just cut Chase Thomas. Anyone know anything about him? His pre draft info looked pretty damn good actually:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631925/chase-thomas

WOW! BRB wanted us to draft him in the 2nd round:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/1/18/3892440/scouting-report-chase-thomas

Thomas was a nice college football who maxed out his ability with smart and effort. The NFL game is just a little too fast for him; that was my opinion of him during draft time. If he can somehow works to get better in his flexibility and quickness/speed, he could get another shot somewhere.

DX-TEX
08-19-2013, 06:09 PM
Thomas was a nice college football who maxed out his ability with smart and effort. The NFL game is just a little too fast for him; that was my opinion of him during draft time. If he can somehow works to get better in his flexibility and quickness/speed, he could get another shot somewhere.

Cant be any worse than what we have.

Tailgate
08-20-2013, 11:15 AM
Outside linebacker Whitney Mercilus has missed the first two preseason games with a hamstring injury. The coaches were hoping to get him back for Monday’s light practice, but it won’t happen, according to coach Gary Kubiak.

Mercilus, last year’s first-round pick who registered six sacks as a rookie, was promoted to the starting lineup in place of Connor Barwin. With Mercilus on the sideline, Justin Tuggle, an undrafted rookie, has started the first two games.

Willie Jefferson, another undrafted rookie, comes off the bench on the weak side. Jefferson recorded his first sack against the Dolphins. He had two tackles for a loss.

Rookie Trevardo Williams played in the second half and produced two sacks. He missed time after a cyst was removed from his foot.

Veteran Bryan Braman had a sack against the Dolphins, giving him 1 1/2. The Texans have 10 sacks in two games.

The performances of Braman, Williams, Jefferson and Tuggle gives the coaches confidence in the backup outside positions.





http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/08/mercilus-hamstring-injury-paves-way-for-other-young-linebackers/

Rey
08-20-2013, 11:29 AM
If Tuggle, Jefferson and Braman make the roster ill feel good about our LB corps. If we go into the season with merci, brooks, trevardo and mont as rotation guys I'm going to probably need some hard liquor for Sundays this fall.

Rey
08-20-2013, 11:33 AM
Oh...and I'm not worried about the inside guys. Those guys are going to make some plays this season. Cush, mays and sharpton is a solid trio of inside guys. Dobbins is gravy.

I'm much more worried about the pass rush and Joseph. Jjo starting to look a little suspect. Not playing like a top tier corner. Season 1 was his highest point. Kareem has been better for over a year now.

Danieal hasn't been all that hot either.

Hervoyel
08-20-2013, 11:39 AM
OLB's gonna be fine. Least of our problems. In fact the entire defense is going to be rolling this year barring injuries.

What kills the 2013 season if anything can kill it will be OL play.

(again, other than injuries. Injuries change everything)

DX-TEX
08-20-2013, 11:44 AM
OLB's gonna be fine. Least of our problems. In fact the entire defense is going to be rolling this year barring injuries.

What kills the 2013 season if anything can kill it will be OL play.

(again, other than injuries. Injuries change everything)

What have you seen from Reed and Mercilous to make you feel that way? I feel this is the worst unit on the entire team

76Texan
08-20-2013, 02:35 PM
Oh...and I'm not worried about the inside guys. Those guys are going to make some plays this season. Cush, mays and sharpton is a solid trio of inside guys. Dobbins is gravy.

I'm much more worried about the pass rush and Joseph. Jjo starting to look a little suspect. Not playing like a top tier corner. Season 1 was his highest point. Kareem has been better for over a year now.

Danieal hasn't been all that hot either.

When both Watt and Cushing get on the field together, the back end should look better.

At least, I hope so.

drs23
08-20-2013, 02:42 PM
When both Watt and Cushing get on the field together, the back end should look better.

At least, I hope so.

Maybe when Cush gets his 'game legs' back. He looked pretty rusty to me.

Texn4life
08-20-2013, 02:44 PM
Maybe when Cush gets his 'game legs' back. He looked pretty rusty to me.

Considering he just started doing team drills a little over a week ago I would say that was to be expected.

HOU-TEX
08-20-2013, 02:58 PM
Maybe when Cush gets his 'game legs' back. He looked pretty rusty to me.

He may have been 'football' rusty, but he had his quicks back. The 1st play had to knock a lot of that rust off, because he was pancaked.

I like he and Mays together working the inside. Another game or two together and they should be fine. The OLBs? Pffft! Haven't seen anything to make me feel any better than last season.

76Texan
08-20-2013, 03:09 PM
He may have been 'football' rusty, but he had his quicks back. The 1st play had to knock a lot of that rust off, because he was pancaked.

I like he and Mays together working the inside. Another game or two together and they should be fine. The OLBs? Pffft! Haven't seen anything to make me feel any better than last season.

Yeah, somebody really knocked the rust off of him.
Cush needs to send the guy a thank you note. :lol:

Rey
08-20-2013, 03:37 PM
What have you seen from Reed and Mercilous to make you feel that way? I feel this is the worst unit on the entire team

To me, Reed looks more lean this year. He looks quicker to me. But he still plays plenty strong.

I think he's getting ready to have a really good year. Reed is so good against runs to his side. To me it looks like he's going to be better pass rush wise this year as well.

I wish I could see merciless though.

Playoffs
08-20-2013, 03:47 PM
Yeah, somebody really knocked the rust off of him.
Cush needs to send the guy a thank you note. :lol:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/katytimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/ba/6ba9b84c-07c2-11e3-866c-0019bb2963f4/5210556ec22c4.preview-300.jpg

Welcome back, Cush.

Thmps, mnn.

Wolf6151
08-20-2013, 03:48 PM
Saints just cut Chase Thomas. Anyone know anything about him? His pre draft info looked pretty damn good actually:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631925/chase-thomas

WOW! BRB wanted us to draft him in the 2nd round:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/1/18/3892440/scouting-report-chase-thomas

If I were the Texans I'd take a long look at him, but I might move him to ILB where his lack of quickness wouldn't be such a negative factor for him. If his pass coverage of TE's, RB's, and zone coverage can improve then he'd be worth a minimum investment and possibly a year on the mystery IR bench or PS for development.

Overall, yes OLB worries me.

CloakNNNdagger
08-20-2013, 03:51 PM
I wish I could see merciless though.

OK, Rey. I'll try to get you into the trainer's room.:)

IDEXAN
08-20-2013, 03:51 PM
He may have been 'football' rusty, but he had his quicks back. The 1st play had to knock a lot of that rust off, because he was pancaked.

I like he and Mays together working the inside. Another game or two together and they should be fine. The OLBs? Pffft! Haven't seen anything to make me feel any better than last season.
Nobody here is putting him, we are all Cushing fans here, but he's not back to
his top form, far from it, and it's going to take some time, maybe the 2014 season before we really see the player that began the 2012 before his injury.
It takes time.

HOU-TEX
08-20-2013, 03:55 PM
Nobody here is putting him, we are all Cushing fans here, but he's not back to
his top form, far from it, and it's going to take some time, maybe the 2014 season before we really see the player that began the 2012 before his injury.
It takes time.

Nobody said he's back to himself, but I think he'll be back to normal soon. And I call bullbutter on 2014. Cushing + football + contract year = Balls out

Rey
08-20-2013, 03:56 PM
OK, Rey. I'll try to get you into the trainer's room.:)

LoL..yeah...

That might be where I'd have to be to see him...

HOU-TEX
08-20-2013, 03:58 PM
OK, Rey. I'll try to get you into the trainer's room.:)

LoL..yeah...

That might be where I'd have to be to see him...

And Sharpton in another week or two. Dude probably has his own table in the training room

Nawzer
08-20-2013, 04:04 PM
OLB is still a big question mark for me and probably will continue to be through the season. I think we'll see several players rotating through out the season until someone steps up. Hopefully, Reed and Mercilus will take the lead but at this point I don't have a lot of confidence in either and having a bunch of mid-round draft picks and undrafted free agents doesn't help the situation. Overall, I think the defense will struggle this year. Just too many question marks in a lot of critical areas.

76Texan
08-20-2013, 05:27 PM
OK, Rey. I'll try to get you into the trainer's room.:)

That's funny right there, LOL!

Playoffs
08-20-2013, 05:48 PM
Saints just cut Chase Thomas. Anyone know anything about him? His pre draft info looked pretty damn good actually:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631925/chase-thomas


Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
Raiders claimed LB Chase Thomas off waivers from the Saints.

76Texan
08-20-2013, 06:02 PM
Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl

Thomas is too clean to play for the Raiders. :overreact:

Wolf6151
08-20-2013, 06:19 PM
OLB is still a big question mark for me and probably will continue to be through the season. I think we'll see several players rotating through out the season until someone steps up. Hopefully, Reed and Mercilus will take the lead but at this point I don't have a lot of confidence in either and having a bunch of mid-round draft picks and undrafted free agents doesn't help the situation. Overall, I think the defense will struggle this year. Just too many question marks in a lot of critical areas.

I have to strongly agree with this general concept. Reed and Mercilus don't fill me with any confidence, and Montgomery and T. Williams are a disappointment as well. Tuggle and Jefferson are at least a step in the right direction and I can see these guys being used rotationally very often. Tuggle and Jefferson being far ahead of Montgomery and T. Williams also makes me question our scouting dept. and draft evaluation process. It seems that Connor Barwin wasn't so easy to replace after all. I agree with Nawzer, I think our defense will struggle this year.

Honoring Earl 34
08-20-2013, 06:20 PM
Cushing healthy is the 2nd most important player on defense IMO . The OLB position is behind where it should be even if Mercilus was healthy . It was that way last year and they added rookies .

thunderkyss
08-20-2013, 07:16 PM
Oh...and I'm not worried about the inside guys. Those guys are going to make some plays this season. Cush, mays and sharpton is a solid trio of inside guys. Dobbins is gravy.

I feel the same way.

If Wade likes the idea of moving Brooks inside, that threatens Dobbins imo. It would allow us to keep an extra OLB.

If they like Mike Mohamed playing inside/outside, even worse for Dobbins.

& if it were my roster, I'd let Dobbins go, keep Mohamed.

Rey
08-21-2013, 12:41 AM
I can't keep Mohammed over big dob. I think Mohammed can be put on ps. And dob has shown some serious short yardage thumping ability. Plus he is supposedly good on special teams.

idymoe
08-21-2013, 12:34 PM
Maybe the last two pre-season games will decide something differently, but Tuggle has played with the 1's the first two games, and I can't see where he has hurt himself. Jefferson keeps flashing, and has a very sorely-needed skill, pass rushing. Bramon is very good on special teams, and has been effective at rushing the passer.

Mercilus has been hurt, so who knows how much improvement he will have from last year.

I would not want the responsibility of making the final cuts to this group if Williams and Montgomery don't show better in these last two pre-season games.

76Texan
08-21-2013, 01:16 PM
Maybe the last two pre-season games will decide something differently, but Tuggle has played with the 1's the first two games, and I can't see where he has hurt himself. Jefferson keeps flashing, and has a very sorely-needed skill, pass rushing. Bramon is very good on special teams, and has been effective at rushing the passer.

Mercilus has been hurt, so who knows how much improvement he will have from last year.

I would not want the responsibility of making the final cuts to this group if Williams and Montgomery don't show better in these last two pre-season games.

Agreed! I wouldn't want to be the one to make the final cut.
There's possibility at quite a few positions.

thunderkyss
08-21-2013, 01:34 PM
Agreed! I wouldn't want to be the one to make the final cut.
There's possibility at quite a few positions.

I'd love to be the one.

If they don't do it my way, they're going to screw it up.

:kitten:

ObsiWan
08-24-2013, 10:48 AM
OLB's gonna be fine. Least of our problems. In fact the entire defense is going to be rolling this year barring injuries.

What kills the 2013 season if anything can kill it will be OL play.

(again, other than injuries. Injuries change everything)

What have you seen from Reed and Mercilous to make you feel that way? I feel this is the worst unit on the entire team

I can't wait to hear the answer to that question. Merciless hasn't played and Reed hasn't really shown much.

The Saints tussle will tell us much about where we really are defensively.
We may not be as formidable as we'd like to think on the D side of the ball.
:pop:

Tailgate
08-25-2013, 08:30 PM
I thought Jefferson caused some good disruption at times today. Reed was decent against the run, but was swallowed up by the tackles on passing downs as usual.

Texn4life
08-25-2013, 08:34 PM
Willie is definitely going to be a player. He's improved a ton since Game 1. I think they've already made up their minds he's going to be on the team. Now get that man a real jersey number.

Hervoyel
08-25-2013, 08:36 PM
I can't wait to hear the answer to that question. Merciless hasn't played and Reed hasn't really shown much.

The Saints tussle will tell us much about where we really are defensively.
We may not be as formidable as we'd like to think on the D side of the ball.
:pop:

:koolaid:

On the other hand we may be just as formidable as we'd like to think on the D side. We won't really know until the real bullets start flying.

I got the optimism thing going this year. I care less but I'm enjoying it more.

speedfreek
08-25-2013, 08:37 PM
ILB's that can drop back against tight ends
and at least attempt to stop a screen look like a bigger
need to me..

TJ

Playoffs
08-25-2013, 08:43 PM
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp_BB15516--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG

eriadoc
08-25-2013, 09:03 PM
This thread is titled "The OLBs", like there are multiples, LOL. This preseason, it's been Willie Jefferson and a bunch of scrubs.

ILB is not going to be much better, as Cushing continues to recover from the injury. He won't be himself until the latter half of the season, I don't think. Mays may be better than Bradie James was (not a high bar), but we're still looking at a less than prime Cushing, Tim Dobbins, Joe Mays, and the mythical creature called Darryl Sharpton.

Thank God the DL looks to be better so far.

Rey
08-25-2013, 09:04 PM
When Willie rushes he reminds me of a cobra. He plays with his limbs kinda close to his frame and when he gets with in striking distance he uncoils.

He just needs to get stronger so his inside moves become more effective.

thunderkyss
08-25-2013, 09:19 PM
I'll be surprised if Mays starts week 1

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

thunderkyss
08-25-2013, 09:21 PM
When Willie rushes he reminds me of a cobra. He plays with his limbs kinda close to his frame and when he gets with in striking distance he uncoils.

He just needs to get stronger so his inside moves become more effective.

I think he's great. If he starts week 1 he'll be in the conversation for DROY by the end of the year.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

badboy
08-25-2013, 09:26 PM
As of today we should draft both an OLB & ILB 2014.

Titans Sux 72
08-25-2013, 10:01 PM
Willie is definitely going to be a player. He's improved a ton since Game 1. I think they've already made up their minds he's going to be on the team. Now get that man a real jersey number.

That's funny. That jersey is atrocious
He definitely has raw talent and has and will only get better. I'll use the "preseason" excuse but once the bullets start flying for real and Watt and the improved D line play mesh ill hold off judgement for a few weeks into the regular season.

Corrosion
08-25-2013, 11:11 PM
This thread is titled "The OLBs", like there are multiples, LOL. This preseason, it's been Willie Jefferson and a bunch of scrubs.

He got the start today ?! .... or at least played in the first series.


Was watching him set the edge against the run , he's really improved in that aspect in a very short period of time from horrible to .... solid.

He damn near sacked Brees for a safety but got stood up on another play.

Dude has a lot of potential but a lot of work to do to reach that potential. Cant believe he went undrafted.

I believe he's a lock for the final 53 as of now.

ILB is not going to be much better, as Cushing continues to recover from the injury. He won't be himself until the latter half of the season, I don't think. Mays may be better than Bradie James was (not a high bar), but we're still looking at a less than prime Cushing, Tim Dobbins, Joe Mays, and the mythical creature called Darryl Sharpton.


FFS this group scares the piss outa me with their horrible tackling ..... as does having Keo anywhere near the field accept on those .... not so special teams. Its like they have no concept of lane integrity or .... hey , I can read that guy's name on the back of his jersey , I should block him!


Thank God the DL looks to be better so far.

They did look really good early today without Ninja and Watt ..... They all need to eat whatever Earl Mitchell has been eating .... Looks like a different player this season.

ObsiWan
08-26-2013, 12:02 AM
:koolaid:
I got the optimism thing going this year. I care less but I'm enjoying it more.
Oh hell, what the heck...
Barkeep, I'll have what he's having.
...and make mine a double.
:barman:

steelbtexan
08-26-2013, 12:18 AM
He got the start today ?! .... or at least played in the first series.


Was watching him set the edge against the run , he's really improved in that aspect in a very short period of time from horrible to .... solid.

He damn near sacked Brees for a safety but got stood up on another play.

Dude has a lot of potential but a lot of work to do to reach that potential. Cant believe he went undrafted.

I believe he's a lock for the final 53 as of now.




FFS this group scares the piss outa me with their horrible tackling ..... as does having Keo anywhere near the field accept on those .... not so special teams. Its like they have no concept of lane integrity or .... hey , I can read that guy's name on the back of his jersey , I should block him!



They did look really good early today without Ninja and Watt ..... They all need to eat whatever Earl Mitchell has been eating .... Looks like a different player this season.

1. The entire LB crew scare me half to death. They are one Cushing injury away from being as bad or worse than they were last yr. The OLB's cant put pressure on the passer and I think Jefferson an undersized UDFA is their best pass rusher, after yrs of spending high draft picks on trying to find an elite guy to pressure the passer. This scares the he** out of me and should scare Wade/Gary too. Tell me out of all of the contenders tell me who has a worse set of LB's. Cushing currently looks like a shell of himself. Hopefully he recovers to game speed quickly, or this defense is in trouble.

2. The one constant Joe Marciano, Gary is loyal to a fault. Great quality to have, but the bottom line is the Texans have had terrible ST's for yrs.

Coach Joe must go

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 12:58 AM
1. The entire LB crew scare me half to death. They are one Cushing injury away from being as bad or worse than they were last yr. The OLB's cant put pressure on the passer and I think Jefferson an undersized UDFA is their best pass rusher, after yrs of spending high draft picks on trying to find an elite guy to pressure the passer. This scares the he** out of me and should scare Wade/Gary too. Tell me out of all of the contenders tell me who has a worse set of LB's. Cushing currently looks like a shell of himself. Hopefully he recovers to game speed quickly, or this defense is in trouble.

2. The one constant Joe Marciano, Gary is loyal to a fault. Great quality to have, but the bottom line is the Texans have had terrible ST's for yrs.

Coach must go

Patriots easily. Makes those losses last year sting even worse.

Corrosion
08-26-2013, 01:06 AM
Patriots easily. Makes those losses last year sting even worse.

They have a difference maker at a the most important position in the game ....

deucetx
08-26-2013, 09:07 AM
Patriots easily. Makes those losses last year sting even worse.

Not sure why you think they do. Jerod Mayo is solid as can be. Third most tackles from the OLB position last year. Heck, PFF has both their OLB's in the top ten. But they generally run a 4-3 (though highly flexible to shift to a 3-4 at times) so they utilize theirs different than we do. But yeah their OLB's have proven more than ours at this point.

Hervoyel
08-26-2013, 09:57 AM
Oh hell, what the heck...
Barkeep, I'll have what he's having.
...and make mine a double.
:barman:

It really is going to be fine. Mercilus will get over his injury and he will be a factor for us. He'll easily outshine what Barwin gave us. Easily. I'm not hung up on wins this year or at least not on some massive number of wins. I don't care if we have problematic injuries right now either. We have young guys like Jefferson who will get in there some and contribute I'm sure but they've got all year to get up to speed. Williams and Montgomery aren't going to be the guys we'd hoped they would be but they'll look a lot better by the end of the year than they do right now.

What we look like late in the year and making the postseason are all I care about and it's way too early to be thinking about any of that. If you look good on paper right now, look good on the field at least some of the time, and have no injuries to key players that will keep them out for the entire season then you're fine. We're fine.

Sure, we're one Cushing injury away from being in trouble with our ILB's. Everyone in the NFL is one injury away from bring screwed somewhere. The injury bug will strike, you just have to hope it doesn't hit where you couldn't afford to build any depth or where you're thin due to **** happening.

I'm fine with 9 or 10 wins and a wild card if we go charging into the playoffs this time instead of staggering and stumbling in again.

Tailgate
08-26-2013, 10:09 AM
As soon as the Ravens jumped us and took Aurthur Brown we should have already known that Cushing was an injury away from an ILB situation of suck again. If he stays healthy and progresses we are just fine here. At least we have a real answer on the roster

But this thread is about who is finally going to step up at OLB considering the draft investments we have made there over the past 3 seasons. Funny the UDFA is all the talk right now.

Does anyone know where Mercilus is at? He going to play Thurs?

Corrosion
08-26-2013, 10:33 AM
As soon as the Ravens jumped us and took Aurthur Brown we should have already known that Cushing was an injury away from an ILB situation of suck again. If he stays healthy and progresses we are just fine here. At least we have a real answer on the roster

But this thread is about who is finally going to step up at OLB considering the draft investments we have made there over the past 3 seasons. Funny the UDFA is all the talk right now.

Does anyone know where Mercilus is at? He going to play Thurs?

Im not so concerned about Mercilus .... Im wondering if Sam Montgomery & Trevardo Williams make the final roster.

IMO neither deserves a roster spot .... they wont be cut , but you could justify them getting a redshirt year on IR with some mysterious injury.

IDEXAN
08-26-2013, 10:37 AM
I'm now on the Willie Jefferson bandwagon - bigtime !
The one play where he got his hands on Brees, almost sacked him, in the EZ yesterday showed he's got the basics to be a legit NFL passrusher: real quicks, excellent length, and relentless pursuit to the QB (aka a "motor").
WJ will most def be among the 4 or 5 Outside backers who make the final 53, and it will be interesting to watch his career develop in Houston.

76Texan
08-26-2013, 10:58 AM
Im not so concerned about Mercilus .... Im wondering if Sam Montgomery & Trevardo Williams make the final roster.

IMO neither deserves a roster spot .... they wont be cut , but you could justify them getting a redshirt year on IR with some mysterious injury.

They are already injured. They just need to "reaggravate" it "a little".

:evil:

76Texan
08-26-2013, 11:00 AM
What's wrong with Aaron Curry?
Looks like the Giants just cut him.
Can Wade do something with the guy.
He's on the cheap now.

PapaL
08-26-2013, 11:01 AM
Im not so concerned about Mercilus .... Im wondering if Sam Montgomery & Trevardo Williams make the final roster.

IMO neither deserves a roster spot .... they wont be cut , but you could justify them getting a redshirt year on IR with some mysterious injury.

This I agree with. Willie has flat out embarrassed them and earned a spot and a big role IMO.

AngryNateFTW
08-26-2013, 11:07 AM
What's wrong with Aaron Curry?
Looks like the Giants just cut him.
Can Wade do something with the guy.
He's on the cheap now.

I just remember when he was considered the safest pick in the draft. Wow.

HOU-TEX
08-26-2013, 11:30 AM
What's wrong with Aaron Curry?
Looks like the Giants just cut him.
Can Wade do something with the guy.
He's on the cheap now.

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane

I was high on him coming out of College too. Shows what I know

Seems like a great guy though, if that counts

Playoffs
08-26-2013, 11:46 AM
What's wrong with Aaron Curry? Looks like the Giants just cut him...

The LB needy Giants cut him on first cut day -- he was even behind Kyle Bosworth, the nephew of former NFL bust Brian Bosworth -- after the Oakland Raiders cut him in November.

Has to be more than just the knee. Guy is not a baller.

Texn4life
08-26-2013, 11:52 AM
What's wrong with Aaron Curry?
Looks like the Giants just cut him.
Can Wade do something with the guy.
He's on the cheap now.

He's the epitome of a bust, but I'm wondering if he's ever played OLB in a 3-4.

76Texan
08-26-2013, 12:42 PM
He's the epitome of a bust, but I'm wondering if he's ever played OLB in a 3-4.

During the draft, I was disagreeing with some posters, especially ThreeToePeed who was really high on him.
I thought Curry was overrated as a high pick.

But at minimum salary, I don't mind to see if Wade can turn his career around.

Pete Carrol runs a 43 Under but he often brings the OLB to the LOS, so it's more or less a 52 like ours, especially regarding that OLB.
This was where Cushing often lined up at USC while Matthews played more like a DE.

I watched him in 09 and 2010, and he showed flashes, but he was never worth a high first round pick. No idea how his plays were after that.

steelbtexan
08-26-2013, 12:55 PM
During the draft, I was disagreeing with some posters, especially ThreeToePeed who was really high on him.
I thought Curry was overrated as a high pick.

But at minimum salary, I don't mind to see if Wade can turn his career around.

Pete Carrol runs a 43 Under but he often brings the OLB to the LOS, so it's more or less a 52 like ours, especially regarding that OLB.
This was where Cushing often lined up at USC while Matthews played more like a DE.

I watched him in 09 and 2010, and he showed flashes, but he was never worth a high first round pick. No idea how his plays were after that.

Wonder whatever happened to old Threetoedpete. I kinda miss the cranky old man. LOL

76Texan
08-26-2013, 12:59 PM
Wonder whatever happened to old Threetoedpete. I kinda miss the cranky old man. LOL

Maybe he retires to Tahiti somewhere. :ant:

drs23
08-26-2013, 02:34 PM
As soon as the Ravens jumped us and took Aurthur Brown we should have already known that Cushing was an injury away from an ILB situation of suck again. If he stays healthy and progresses we are just fine here. At least we have a real answer on the roster

But this thread is about who is finally going to step up at OLB considering the draft investments we have made there over the past 3 seasons. Funny the UDFA is all the talk right now.

Does anyone know where Mercilus is at? He going to play Thurs?

I'm not so sure about that at this point. Brown is 3rd on the depth chart behind Jameel McClain a six year vet and 2nd year player Josh Bynes. I've heard some less than rave reviews on his performance so far and appears to be somewhat validated by his position on the depth chart.

All that aside though I agree that Cush needs to get back to himself quickly and Mays learns how to tackle at least until we can find Sharpton!

76Texan
08-26-2013, 02:58 PM
I'm not so sure about that at this point. Brown is 3rd on the depth chart behind Jameel McClain a six year vet and 2nd year player Josh Bynes. I've heard some less than rave reviews on his performance so far and appears to be somewhat validated by his position on the depth chart.

All that aside though I agree that Cush needs to get back to himself quickly and Mays learns how to tackle at least until we can find Sharpton!

Remember Sio Moore was the guy I tabbed for the Texans as he's an all-around LB who can play either inside or outside; he can rush and he can cover.

The Raiders took him in the third and the words out of their training camp is that he has been making good impressions.
He's currently first on their depth chart and is slated to start at OLB in their 4-3.

Tailgate
08-26-2013, 03:04 PM
I'm not so sure about that at this point. Brown is 3rd on the depth chart behind Jameel McClain a six year vet and 2nd year player Josh Bynes. I've heard some less than rave reviews on his performance so far and appears to be somewhat validated by his position on the depth chart.

All that aside though I agree that Cush needs to get back to himself quickly and Mays learns how to tackle at least until we can find Sharpton!

Speaks more on their depth at the position to me. Ravens board for the most part they all love Brown, his ability in pass coverage and dont expect him to be coming off the bench for long.

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 04:59 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/26/report-parys-haralson-on-the-trade-block/#comments

The 49ers are talented on defense, and deep.

They’re now hoping to turn some of that depth into something else.

According to Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com, the 49ers are shopping outside linebacker Parys Haralson in trade talks.


Supposed to be REALLY good at OLB....just saying

Rey
08-26-2013, 05:04 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/26/report-parys-haralson-on-the-trade-block/#comments



Supposed to be REALLY good at OLB....just saying

I'd be interested in making that move...

What I'd trade I don't know...

Hervoyel
08-26-2013, 05:07 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/26/report-parys-haralson-on-the-trade-block/#comments



Supposed to be REALLY good at OLB....just saying

Interesting but what do you give up for him? Does he start here? Reed and Mercilus are the annointed ones and so you're getting him for depth right? Where do you willingly get thinner or are you thinking draft picks?

76Texan
08-26-2013, 05:25 PM
Interesting; I'd entertain.

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 05:32 PM
Interesting but what do you give up for him? Does he start here? Reed and Mercilus are the annointed ones and so you're getting him for depth right? Where do you willingly get thinner or are you thinking draft picks?

Niners boards are thinking a 5th or 6th rd draft pick could do it. And IMO Mercilus hasn't really earned anything yet since he has been injured going on close to a month now.

76Texan
08-26-2013, 05:40 PM
Niners boards are thinking a 5th or 6th rd draft pick could do it. And IMO Mercilus hasn't really earned anything yet since he has been injured going on close to a month now.

Getting more interesting.

Nawzer
08-26-2013, 05:43 PM
OLB will be big a issue imo regardless of whom we add at this point in the season.

ObsiWan
08-26-2013, 05:49 PM
Wonder whatever happened to old Threetoedpete. I kinda miss the cranky old man. LOL

I've been wondering that myself.

ObsiWan
08-26-2013, 05:53 PM
I'd be interested in making that move...

What I'd trade I don't know...


Yeah... them damned Niners are pretty much set everywhere. We could offer a pick but hell, why would I help them?

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 05:54 PM
OLB will be big a issue imo regardless of whom we add at this point in the season.

http://wodumedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Jon-Favreau-as-Daniel-Bateman-a-Navy-SEAL-turned-L.A.-cop-who-makes-up-for-a-lost-kidney-with-an-overload-of-grit-in-Warner-Brothers-The-Replacements-2000-3.jpg

How hard can it be?

Wade: Go get me the ball!
OLB: Ill get you the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Corrosion
08-26-2013, 07:13 PM
Niners boards are thinking a 5th or 6th rd draft pick could do it. And IMO Mercilus hasn't really earned anything yet since he has been injured going on close to a month now.

I think Reed has earned his spot , he produced his rookie year and even with the lower numbers last season he played well ...


Mercilus showed a little promise last season in a limited role ... but Montgomery & T.Williams should be closer to being cut than handed playing time. (no , they wont be cut but they have been outplayed by one and possibly two UDFA's in Jefferson & Tuggle.

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 09:03 PM
Interesting but what do you give up for him? Does he start here? Reed and Mercilus are the annointed ones and so you're getting him for depth right? Where do you willingly get thinner or are you thinking draft picks?

Getting more interesting.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/source-haralson-traded-saints

Traded to the damn Saints. Dammit Rick!

eriadoc
08-27-2013, 10:09 AM
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/source-haralson-traded-saints

Traded to the damn Saints. Dammit Rick!

That's really cheap for a better than average player.

The 49ers receive a conditional seventh-round pick as compensation, the Sacramento Bee reported. If Haralson does not make the team, the 49ers will receive no compensation.

Haralson, 29, who is entering his eighth NFL season is in the final year of his contract. He is schedule to make $1.15 million, a salary the 49ers negotiated down from $2.67 million in the offseason.

Conditional 7th and $1.15M? Where the hell was the Texans offer?

Rey
08-27-2013, 10:24 AM
I want to see Trevardo in a situation where everyone knows a pass is coming. I want to see if he can use that speed to get around blocks and pressure/get to the QB.

That's the ONLY hesitation I'd have with letting him go. That's the only chance he has at helping this team this year. Being a demon on pass rush downs.

Otherwise he's a complete waste of a roster spot that could go to someone that actually can play.

I've never see an NFL defensive player get rag dolled like Trevardo has. I mean, I've seen DB's stand up to olinemen better.

Number19
08-31-2013, 07:19 PM
It looks like our OLB's are: Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Montgomery & Jackson.

Can someone clarify, is it Reed on the strong side and Mercilus on the weak side? I'm assuming Jackson plays behind Mercilus. Is this correct? Which side does Montgomery play? Behind Reed? How about Braman? Which side is he projected to?

Mercilus is unproven and missed time in training camp and the preseason games. This side of the ball is a huge question mark.

Of this group of LB's, Braman has the most experience possibly for this second position. In the Dallas game he seemed to drop into coverage fairly well and on plays to the opposite side, took proper angles to help out down field if necessary. At the POA he made tackles but it seemed after giving up 3 or 4 yards.

Now that we know the players, how do you see this position settling out.

Mr teX
08-31-2013, 07:24 PM
Reed and mercilus are gonna have to bring it this year....no confidence in any of the other olbs whatsoever..

Playoffs
08-31-2013, 07:31 PM
It looks like our OLB's are: Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Montgomery & Jackson.

Outside linebackers are Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Brian Braman, Sam Montgomery, Willie Jefferson with Justin Tuggle kind of a "swing" ILB/OLB.

DX-TEX
08-31-2013, 07:36 PM
Outside linebackers are Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Brian Braman, Sam Montgomery, Willie Jefferson with Justin Tuggle kind of a "swing" ILB/OLB.

Still don't feel too hot about this corp.

Number19
08-31-2013, 07:36 PM
Tuggle is also a rookie. So on this side we have 3 rookies, a second year player with limited experience and Braman with two years limited experience.

Playoffs
08-31-2013, 08:01 PM
Still don't feel too hot about this corp.

Yeah, but I like them better than this group: Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, Bryan Braman, Jesse Nading, Whitney Mercilus

LikeMike
08-31-2013, 08:30 PM
Yeah, but I like them better than this group: Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, Bryan Braman, Jesse Nading, Whitney Mercilus

I´m not so sure about that... I liked them at the beginning of last year a lot better than I do this years corps. We need to be hoping that several of these guys take the next step...

PapaL
08-31-2013, 08:33 PM
Hopefully he plays like Whitney Mercilus and not Whitney Houston.

b0ng
09-01-2013, 02:25 AM
Word from Seahwk fans was that Curry was not smart enough to grasp whatever defense they were running.

I'm eh about out OLB's. Mercilus was decent in his limited role (but I'm apparently one of the few who think this) and if he takes a big step then this becomes a much better situation, obviously.

Corrosion
09-01-2013, 06:53 AM
Word from Seahwk fans was that Curry was not smart enough to grasp whatever defense they were running.

I'm eh about out OLB's. Mercilus was decent in his limited role (but I'm apparently one of the few who think this) and if he takes a big step then this becomes a much better situation, obviously.

Far from it.


Most realize Mercilus put up "good numbers" in a limited role last season.


He wasn't near as good as Barwin in setting the edge Vs the run nor when asked to drop into coverage , which happened quite a bit towards the end of the season.


Reed has been solid if unspectacular on the other side , If any one of the OLB's opposite him can take "that big step" .... yeah , it does become a much better situation. Mercilus gets the first shot at proving he's that guy.


Being his second year in the system , its not unrealistic to expect Mercilus to make a big improvement.

hradhak
09-01-2013, 08:40 AM
I do think we are a little thin at OLB. Mercilus needs to make a big step this season in run defense. I think most of his snaps last year came in passing downs. Reed is not a player that any team is going to gameplan against, but he'll be a good player.

I'm hoping I am wrong, but our defense worries me this season. Down the stretch we were giving up far too many points on defense for us to go deep in the playoffs.

Insideop
09-01-2013, 09:19 AM
I've been concerned about the LBer corp for awhile now. If Cush goes down again this season the Texans are in for another year of an early exit from the playoffs, if they make it at all. It's too bad this was such a weak draft crop of LBers (both ILB and OLB) this year, and to pick 2 in the mid rounds that may end up being busts or mediocre at best, well, that's the kind of bad drafting that will kill a team in the long run. I just hope finding Jefferson and Tuggle as UDFA's make up for it!

Playoffs
09-01-2013, 10:29 AM
I´m not so sure about that... I liked them at the beginning of last year a lot better than I do this years corps. We need to be hoping that several of these guys take the next step...

But at the end of last year, Barwin was the 4th worst 3-4 OLB in the league. Getting to 'average' as a group will be an improvement.

thunderkyss
09-01-2013, 10:47 AM
But at the end of last year, Barwin was the 4th worst 3-4 OLB in the league.

I understand that & I was no fan of Connor Barwin once we switched to the 3-4. But there must have been some reason Wade kept throwing him out there. I don't believe this "scheme" thing '76 kept throwing out there, but there's a reason he kept sending Barwin out & not Mercilus when we were bleeding points & yards.

Rey
09-01-2013, 11:17 AM
delete

Number19
09-01-2013, 06:35 PM
But at the end of last year, Barwin was the 4th worst 3-4 OLB in the league. Getting to 'average' as a group will be an improvement.I don't know how this is determined, but a quick analysis of the stats shows he was, slightly, our best OLB. So what does this say for Brooks Reed going into this season?

Barwin started all 16 games and Reed started 12. Barwin averaged 2.2 solo tackles per game and Reed, 1.6. Barwin averaged .6 assisted tackles per game vs Reed's, .7 per game. Barwin had 3 sacks and Reed had 2.5 sacks in four fewer games. Of course stats don't tell the full tale, but Reed's stats weren't good.

As for Mercilus, he missed most of training camp and all of the preseason games, out since July 30th. Does he start the first game with only one week of practice? The general rule says no, you start one of the backers who participated in the full off season and work Mercilus in slowly with maybe 20 - 25 snaps his first time out.

As negative as everyone is on Braman and taking into account the caliber of player he went up against, still this preseason he averaged 2 tackles per game, .7 assisted tackles per game and had 3 sacks.

Perhaps this only indicates how poorly situated we are at this position, but he had the best camp of all the OLB's who made the team. Does he start the first game opposite Reed?

CloakNNNdagger
09-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Few will remember, but back in early September of last year, Brooks Reed in practice sustained what the Texans reported as a "hip" injury. They have reported previous adductor strains as "hip" injuries, as the adductor is one of the muscles that move the hip. Later in the season, he sustained a definitive rupture of the adductor that took him out of almost all of the rest of the season. This injury was reported a "groin," as the adductor is part of the groin anatomy. In Jan 2013, he underwent "sports hernia surgery," an adductor tear being part of the "sports hernia" complex. I have no doubt that from Sept 2012 until he sustained the definitive rupture, he was dogged by his adductor.....an injury that compromised his performance throughout the 2012 season. I see optimism in Reed returning this season a rejuvenated and much improved player.

drs23
09-01-2013, 10:37 PM
Few will remember, but back in early September of last year, Brooks Reed in practice sustained what the Texans reported as a "hip" injury. They have reported previous adductor strains as "hip" injuries, as the adductor is one of the muscles that move the hip. Later in the season, he sustained a definitive rupture of the adductor that took him out of almost all of the rest of the season. This injury was reported a "groin," as the adductor is part of the groin anatomy. In Jan 2013, he underwent "sports hernia surgery," an adductor tear being part of the "sports hernia" complex. I have no doubt that from Sept 2012 until he sustained the definitive rupture, he was dogged by his adductor.....an injury that compromised his performance throughout the 2012 season. I see optimism in Reed returning this season a rejuvenated and much improved player.

OK, a burst of sunshine from Doc for once. I like it!

steelbtexan
09-02-2013, 01:00 AM
Few will remember, but back in early September of last year, Brooks Reed in practice sustained what the Texans reported as a "hip" injury. They have reported previous adductor strains as "hip" injuries, as the adductor is one of the muscles that move the hip. Later in the season, he sustained a definitive rupture of the adductor that took him out of almost all of the rest of the season. This injury was reported a "groin," as the adductor is part of the groin anatomy. In Jan 2013, he underwent "sports hernia surgery," an adductor tear being part of the "sports hernia" complex. I have no doubt that from Sept 2012 until he sustained the definitive rupture, he was dogged by his adductor.....an injury that compromised his performance throughout the 2012 season. I see optimism in Reed returning this season a rejuvenated and much improved player.

Glad to know that you are optimistic.

See y'all that Debbie Downer monikier doesn't always fit. LOL

The Pencil Neck
09-02-2013, 03:44 AM
The exception that proves the rule...

:swatter:

Corrosion
09-02-2013, 04:35 AM
I have a feeling Tuggle might be starting next to Cushing inside near the end of the season .... :kitten:

SAMURAITEXAN
09-02-2013, 04:43 AM
I have a feeling Tuggle might be starting next to Cushing inside near the end of the season .... :kitten:

I have the same feeling at least getting into ILB rotation. I can hear the theme from movie "Flash Dance" in my head. Whatta feeling~:ahhaha:

Playoffs
09-02-2013, 11:38 AM
I don't know how this is determined, but a quick analysis of the stats shows he was, slightly, our best OLB...

Actually on a per snap basis Barwin was our worst OLB. He had twice as many snaps as Mercilus and Reed but only had 4 sacks to Reed 3/Mercilus 6, 24 QB hurries to Reed 18/Mercilus 14, and 24 stops to Reed 15/Mercilus 13. On tackles, it was a push after you equalized it.

So out of the three I choose Reed & Mercilus, as Barwin's notoriety was due more to his quirky personality & letterman's jacket than his play. ( He did have that 4 sack game against his whipping boy J-ville in 2011.)

Our OLBs were below average in 2012. We have a chance to move up to average with this group if health holds and we find the right rotation. Mercilus missing preseason did not help the cause. But Reed had a few "almost" plays this preseason, so perhaps a few of those will be converted with our starters in.

Number19
09-02-2013, 12:33 PM
Where do you get stats broken out in such detail?

Uncle Rico
09-02-2013, 12:59 PM
Once Willy Jefferson bulks up, I think he could be a special player.

CloakNNNdagger
09-02-2013, 02:41 PM
Once Willy Jefferson bulks up, I think he could be a special player.

On his Pro day, he weighed 233. He has eaten like a garbage disposal and hit the weight room as anyone on the team..............and now weighs 250!

False Start
09-02-2013, 04:29 PM
Once Willy Jefferson bulks up, I think he could be a special player.

Me too. I wonder if he is gonna get a new jersey number? :littlelol:

Edit: looks like he has # 54

The Pencil Neck
09-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Me too. I wonder if he is gonna get a new jersey number? :littlelol:

Already changed to 54! Haha! He took Trevardo's number!:bender:

Rey
09-02-2013, 04:37 PM
Already changed to 54! Haha! He took Trevardo's number!:bender:

:ohsnap:

Now that is funny. But it sucks for trevardo. Well...he should have plenty of motivation to improve.

The Pencil Neck
09-02-2013, 04:49 PM
Tuggle changed his number, too, I think. He nabbed 95... that was... Chris Jones, iirc.

powda
09-02-2013, 04:59 PM
It's odd. Normally it's easier to find an outside pass rush then an inside one. With the likes of JJ, ninja, and Mitchell we will again have an above average inside pass rush. Now if only reed or mercy would produce we'd be in great shape. Looking forward i'd expect more picks and offseason acquisitions to help the outside pass rush. If we find it lookout!

Wolf6151
09-02-2013, 05:06 PM
I have a feeling Tuggle might be starting next to Cushing inside near the end of the season .... :kitten:

My sentiments as well. If he gets some coaching and experience, could we possibly hope that Tuggle might be the future of the ILB position opposite Cushing and Jefferson might be the future at OLB as well? I have high hopes for both of these guys.

Rey
09-02-2013, 09:45 PM
Tuggle changed his number, too, I think. He nabbed 95... that was... Chris Jones, iirc.

Please don't mention jones. That one still stings a little.

:headhurts:

steelbtexan
09-02-2013, 10:08 PM
My sentiments as well. If he gets some coaching and experience, could we possibly hope that Tuggle might be the future of the ILB position opposite Cushing and Jefferson might be the future at OLB as well? I have high hopes for both of these guys.

Tuggles dad (Jesse) only started in ATL for about a decade.

Tailgate
09-16-2013, 10:04 AM
I know there is alot of talk about Joseph and the secondary. But to me, it still comes down to lack of a true stud at OLB to complete this D. Mercilus is going to have to start making big plays on his own SOON as our schedule is absolutely brutal these next 6 games.

The OL and OLBs are the key to our season going forward.

steelbtexan
09-16-2013, 10:13 AM
I know there is alot of talk about Joseph and the secondary. But to me, it still comes down to lack of a true stud at OLB to complete this D. Mercilus is going to have to start making big plays on his own SOON as our schedule is absolutely brutal these next 6 games.

The OL and OLBs are the key to our season going forward.

^^^^
This

And Schaub needs to stay healthy.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 10:19 AM
^^^^
This

And Schaub needs to stay healthy.

Duane Brown needs to get right. I don't know what's wrong, but we need the big guy to be the big guy.

I'm going through the game for the second time now. I'm not ready to say Merci had a great game, but so far (start of 3rd qtr) he's having a damn good game.

Good pressure, not great, not really good, but good.

He's having a great game on runs to his side, setting the edge & getting off his blocks.... not to shabby on runs to the middle or away from him.

Tailgate
09-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Duane Brown needs to get right. I don't know what's wrong, but we need the big guy to be the big guy.

I'm going through the game for the second time now. I'm not ready to say Merci had a great game, but so far (start of 3rd qtr) he's having a damn good game.

Good pressure, not great, not really good, but good.

He's having a great game on runs to his side, setting the edge & getting off his blocks.... not to shabby on runs to the middle or away from him.

Also fair to Mercilus is he didnt get his preseason reps like most others, so definitely not counting him out by any means in living up to his first round billing.

HOU-TEX
09-16-2013, 10:37 AM
I think I've come to the conclusion that Reed will always be just above average against the run and JAG rushing the passer.

That said, I don't think I'm ready to replace him with Braman or one of the rooks yet due to their questionable run stopping ability.

76Texan
09-16-2013, 10:37 AM
Duane Brown needs to get right. I don't know what's wrong, but we need the big guy to be the big guy.

I'm going through the game for the second time now. I'm not ready to say Merci had a great game, but so far (start of 3rd qtr) he's having a damn good game.

Good pressure, not great, not really good, but good.

He's having a great game on runs to his side, setting the edge & getting off his blocks.... not to shabby on runs to the middle or away from him.

Our D played well; the Titans just got away with too many non-calls on both sides of the ball - quite a bit more than us.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 10:38 AM
I think I've come to the conclusion that Reed will always be just above average against the run and JAG rushing the passer.

That said, I don't think I'm ready to replace him with Braman or one of the rooks yet due to their questionable run stopping ability.

Well he's wasted space on passing downs. Move him inside or take him off the field on passing downs.

I wants to see some Willie Jefferson already.

beerlover
09-16-2013, 10:46 AM
I know there is alot of talk about Joseph and the secondary. But to me, it still comes down to lack of a true stud at OLB to complete this D. Mercilus is going to have to start making big plays on his own SOON as our schedule is absolutely brutal these next 6 games.

The OL and OLBs are the key to our season going forward.

Mercilus was being held way too much for no calls, same could be said for Watt but Watt has the strength to beat even holds while Whitney still lacks core strength. He needs to work on hand placement, to keep these tackles from grabbing & holding, can't the defensive staff see that? Either that or he needs to line up more outside, use his speed & see if his body lean can come off the edge. Maybe he needs to play left side? more right side dominant, struggles trying to pull left from right....looks fixable but try something :thinking:

Rey
09-16-2013, 10:47 AM
I didn't think our defense played as well as it seems. I thought the titans bailed us out with their play calling. Force feeding Chris Johnson even we we loaded up to stop it. I thought they should have moved locker around more and let him throw a little more. I get why they did what they did, but they needed to give him some safe throws with a run pass option built in.

When they needed to they went on a 99 yard drive. I think had Britt or whoever that was wouldn't have fought for extra yards on that third down pass towards the end if the game, they'd have gotten that first instead of it being 4th and short.

I'll take the wins however they come though. Still have some things I'd like to see them do better though.

Rey
09-16-2013, 10:52 AM
I still don't have a problem with the OLB's. Reed is a strong side guy. Strong side guys usually aren't your pass rushers. Mercilus isn't doninant, but to me he looks much better than he did last year. Reed looks better to me too.

Neither is dominant. To me both are solid. Would I like a truly dominant edge rush guy? Who wouldn't? But I'm just happy I'm not looking at the piss poor crap I saw last year for
The OLB's. they are showing life this year. I'll take that for now. But yeah, moving forward I want to see a dominant edge rusher here. That would make the defense 109x better.

TexansFight
09-16-2013, 11:04 AM
Well he's wasted space on passing downs. Move him inside or take him off the field on passing downs.

I wants to see some Willie Jefferson already.

I completely agree. I have been one of Brooks' biggest fans but he is not getting the job done rushing the passer. Willie has natural ability and was getting good pressure during the preseason.

76Texan
09-16-2013, 11:26 AM
I'm with Rey; even though we both like Jefferson, I don't see a problem with Mercilus and Reed. I think they played just like they were supposed to.

Wade dialed up a lot of plays for the interior guys (including Cushing) with the OLBs acting as containement.
They weren't perfect, but for the most part, they performed their tasks well.

thunderkyss
09-16-2013, 12:14 PM
I'm with Rey; even though we both like Jefferson, I don't see a problem with Mercilus and Reed. I think they played just like they were supposed to.

Wade dialed up a lot of plays for the interior guys (including Cushing) with the OLBs acting as containement.
They weren't perfect, but for the most part, they performed their tasks well.

If we end up containing Wilson & Kaepernick I'll start believing Wade is drawing up "containment" assignments for his OLB. Until then.... not so much.

Rey
09-16-2013, 12:18 PM
If we end up containing Wilson & Kaepernick I'll start believing Wade is drawing up "containment" assignments for his OLB. Until then.... not so much.

I don't think we are playing contain either, but i don't get your comment. If we're going to play contain, it'd make perfect sense to do it against those two guys.

Edit: nvm, I kind of understand what you mean

76Texan
09-16-2013, 03:02 PM
I don't think we are playing contain either, but i don't get your comment. If we're going to play contain, it'd make perfect sense to do it against those two guys.

Edit: nvm, I kind of understand what you mean

There are time to contain and there are times to let loose.

I first learned about this when I read a book, in which the author recounted their interviews with coaches on how to minimize the damage that a guy like Barry Sanders can create.

These young mobile QBs represent the same challenge.
Also, the Titans have CJ, and the Vikings has AP, etc.

I paid more attention to the scheme, and it's always there with Wade ever since he joined the Texans.

Mercilus wasn't in the shape to do it last year (something I suggeste d after the draft.)

Mercilus and Williams had the quickness, but not the strength of Montgomery, in their respective first year. I've always thought that Mercilus has the better ceiling due to his explosiveness off the edge.

Barwin and Reed are solid players, not playmakers.

As a DC, I would certainly tailor my scheme to let the solid players do what they do best, if I can enhance the opportunities for my playmakers to make plays. The concept, at its core, is quite simple.
Make the best use out of the talents on your team.

76Texan
09-16-2013, 03:27 PM
As an extra consideration, look at the interior players in Wade's defense.

That includes the ILBs.

It's very doubtful that you can find another system where these guys were as consistently successful (compared to others.)

It doesn't mean that Wade didn't feature the outside guys.
If you're a playmaker, he will feature you.

His philosophy is a tad aggressive, overall, but there's enough flexibility, I would say he's a well-worn veteran.

The guys just need to stay together and execute.
The defensive game plan is good, but the offensive-ladden feature of the league is never of help.

I'm just glad that Wade is our DC.