PDA

View Full Version : Is No Tackling in Our Practices Leading to Missed Tackling in Games?


CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 10:08 AM
I certainly understand the arguments against tackling in these circumstances.........concern over injuries............concerns evidently heightened even moreso this year.

But with the Texans having no tackling allowed during practices as I understand it, you've got to ask yourself, how can this not affect tackling in real games..........especially when it becomes evident last night that missed tackles continue to be a concern?

Tackling dummy drills do not afford valid real-time duplication. But it's not just injury that is a risk during non-tackling practice contact. That contact also addresses fundamentals by correcting bad techniques, and if absent, is likely to lead to poor tackling........and unnecessary penalties......while still creating a set up for unnecessary injuries. But it's not just the defense that needs contact to improve in practice. The offense needs to be hit as well. Skilled players need to learn how to fight off defenders as well as maintain possession of the ball during contact....i.e.,ball security.

In a no tackling contact practice, a player that is in good position to make a tackle generally will get a whistle blown to signify the end of the play, and that he got the "tackle." But in live play where actual tackling occurs, those assumed tackles don't always have the same results. Being in position doesn't necessarily mean that a linebacker, for example, can stop a ball carrier. How the linebacker hits the ball carrier, what angle he takes to hit the ball carrier and how he finishes the tackle are all important aspects to tackling.

Many colleges have already adapted this same non tackling practice policy. And it would be hard bent to believe, after watching college ball, that tackling has not been negatively affected by the time the player reaches the NFL.

I would invite your thoughts and comments.

BullNation4Life
08-10-2013, 11:34 AM
I certainly understand the arguments against tackling in these circumstances.........concern over injuries............concerns evidently heightened even moreso this year.

But with the Texans having no tackling allowed during practices as I understand it, you've got to ask yourself, how can this not affect tackling in real games..........especially when it becomes evident last night that missed tackles continue to be a concern?

Tackling dummy drills do not afford valid real-time duplication. But it's not just injury that is a risk during non-tackling practice contact. That contact also addresses fundamentals by correcting bad techniques, and if absent, is likely to lead to poor tackling........and unnecessary penalties......while still creating a set up for unnecessary injuries. But it's not just the defense that needs contact to improve in practice. The offense needs to be hit as well. Skilled players need to learn how to fight off defenders as well as maintain possession of the ball during contact....i.e.,ball security.

In a no tackling contact practice, a player that is in good position to make a tackle generally will get a whistle blown to signify the end of the play, and that he got the "tackle." But in live play where actual tackling occurs, those assumed tackles don't always have the same results. Being in position doesn't necessarily mean that a linebacker, for example, can stop a ball carrier. How the linebacker hits the ball carrier, what angle he takes to hit the ball carrier and how he finishes the tackle are all important aspects to tackling.

Many colleges have already adapted this same non tackling practice policy. And it would be hard bent to believe, after watching college ball, that tackling has not been negatively affected by the time the player reaches the NFL.

I would invite your thoughts and comments.

at this stage of a career you would think a professional football player would know how to take the proper angles and wrap up, but that being said, I think without the practice, players start to develop bad habits and start to forget the fundamentals.

I think tackling is a muscle memory type thing and if you stop, the memory forgets the proper way...

Brandon420tx
08-10-2013, 12:37 PM
I would have to see more game film. We didn't tackle much in practice last season and we did good. I think it was a combination of a big dude running unexpectantly fast. Swearing made a mistake, and the other 2 were in bad positions. Just referencing the really big play as I felt we did pretty good defensively otherwise.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 01:17 PM
I would have to see more game film. We didn't tackle much in practice last season and we did good. I think it was a combination of a big dude running unexpectantly fast. Swearing made a mistake, and the other 2 were in bad positions. Just referencing the really big play as I felt we did pretty good defensively otherwise.

And did you happen to watch the kick and punt plays?

ObsiWan
08-10-2013, 02:03 PM
Isn't this minimal contact during practice a league rule and not just a Texans' decision? I'm pretty sure that the decision to go to walk thrus during the 2nd practice of two-a-days came from the new collective bargaining deal. Perhaps the minimal hitting is also a result of that deal.

I agree with your premise that it (minimal tackling) will result in sloppier and sloppier play on defense and special teams.

I'd be curious to see if there has been studies on whether this new, minimal tackling philosophy has actually resulted in fewer in-season injuries. I'd bet - without any data to go on - that it hasn't.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 02:42 PM
Isn't this minimal contact during practice a league rule and not just a Texans' decision? I'm pretty sure that the decision to go to walk thrus during the 2nd practice of two-a-days came from the new collective bargaining deal. Perhaps the minimal hitting is also a result of that deal.

I agree with your premise that it (minimal tackling) will result in sloppier and sloppier play on defense and special teams.

I'd be curious to see if there has been studies on whether this new, minimal tackling philosophy has actually resulted in fewer in-season injuries. I'd bet - without any data to go on - that it hasn't.


With the new CBA, teams are prohibited from tackling during practice, including training camp, unless the practice is in full pads. And the number of full pad practices are maxed to 3 a week during training camp, and 1 a week during the season. But individual head coaches have the leeway to determine how "full tackling" to how "minimalistic" these practices will be handled.

Nawzer
08-10-2013, 03:30 PM
I think missed tackles has always been an issue for this team for as long as I can remember. I don't know what the exact cause is, but it demonstrates the lack of emphasis on fundamentals imo.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 03:51 PM
I think missed tackles has always been an issue for this team for as long as I can remember. I don't know what the exact cause is, but it demonstrates the lack of emphasis on fundamentals imo.

New coach Chip Kelly liked the pass rush generated by the first-team defense.

But the Eagles’ 31-22 loss at the Linc showed the defense has some work to do.

Tackling was an issue, which came as no big surprise since the Eagles haven’t done any 11-on-11 tackling at training camp. They’ve only done occasional tackling drills.

“That was really the first time we went live,” said linebacker Mychal Kendricks. “It takes a while. It’s not an easy transition.”

”We had some breakdowns and missed some tackles,” said defensive coordinator Billy Davis. “The effort to the ball was there. The tackling wasn’t where it needs to be. We’ll get the tackling.”

link (http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/eagles/tackling-needs-to-improve/article_746ab93d-1c9e-5653-81b4-d42ed40f24f7.html)

And there in lies a great deal of the problems of any team not allowing follow through tackling.

Effort to the ball=Looks like Tarzan

Not wrapping up=Plays like Jane

76Texan
08-10-2013, 03:54 PM
Texans need to let their guys chase some chicken every day for an hour or so, LOL!

ObsiWan
08-10-2013, 03:57 PM
Texans need to let their guys chase some chicken every day for an hour or so, LOL!

Just make sure its live chicken and not fried chicken
:htown2atx:
[/rimshot]

Brandon420tx
08-10-2013, 03:57 PM
And did you happen to watch the kick and punt plays?

Actually no, the vikings feed seemed to suck during kick and punt returns, I missed the 50 yarder by Patterson

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 04:08 PM
Actually no, the vikings feed seemed to suck during kick and punt returns, I missed the 50 yarder by Patterson

Had you done so, I'm sure you would have probably emptied your Pepcid bottle by the end of the game.:gun:

Brandon420tx
08-10-2013, 04:37 PM
I'd probably just blame it on Coach Joe. Besides, I wouldn't want my players practicing tackling on kick returns, as someone who did kick offs I can say those tackles freaking hurt

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 04:45 PM
I'd probably just blame it on Coach Joe. Besides, I wouldn't want my players practicing tackling on kick returns, as someone who did kick offs I can say those tackles freaking hurt

Those tackles are many of those players' only chance to show their tackling ability. I know you're not implying that our STs players should only try for tackles cold turkey in their first regular season game.........if they even make it to the final roster. They already looked like that for the past couple of years. I am not looking for a another "repeat performance" this year.

Brandon420tx
08-10-2013, 05:47 PM
Maybe I'm just too desensitized to the poor tackling on STs that I don't even care about them anymore. That's why I only mentioned the defense. I'm not saying go cold turkey on tackles, but not "live" tackling on kickoff practice, people will get hurt, and while it probably won't be a long term injury most of the people trying to make it on STs have a very short window to do so

Surreal McCoy
08-10-2013, 07:39 PM
I certainly understand the arguments against tackling in these circumstances.........concern over injuries............concerns evidently heightened even moreso this year.

But with the Texans having no tackling allowed during practices as I understand it, you've got to ask yourself, how can this not affect tackling in real games..........especially when it becomes evident last night that missed tackles continue to be a concern?

Tackling dummy drills do not afford valid real-time duplication. But it's not just injury that is a risk during non-tackling practice contact. That contact also addresses fundamentals by correcting bad techniques, and if absent, is likely to lead to poor tackling........and unnecessary penalties......while still creating a set up for unnecessary injuries. But it's not just the defense that needs contact to improve in practice. The offense needs to be hit as well. Skilled players need to learn how to fight off defenders as well as maintain possession of the ball during contact....i.e.,ball security.

In a no tackling contact practice, a player that is in good position to make a tackle generally will get a whistle blown to signify the end of the play, and that he got the "tackle." But in live play where actual tackling occurs, those assumed tackles don't always have the same results. Being in position doesn't necessarily mean that a linebacker, for example, can stop a ball carrier. How the linebacker hits the ball carrier, what angle he takes to hit the ball carrier and how he finishes the tackle are all important aspects to tackling.

Many colleges have already adapted this same non tackling practice policy. And it would be hard bent to believe, after watching college ball, that tackling has not been negatively affected by the time the player reaches the NFL.

I would invite your thoughts and comments.

Alternatively, if these players haven't learned how to tackle by now, after dedicating their lives to doing just that from the age of 6 or 7 (in most cases), can we really expect them to learn it now? Kinda like expecting HWSNBN to change a sidearm delivery after using it his entire life.

DocBar
08-10-2013, 11:00 PM
Just make sure its live chicken and not fried chicken
:htown2atx:
[/rimshot]MSR! Love the Major League reference.

DocBar
08-10-2013, 11:05 PM
I won't get to see the game until 9PM PST so I can't really answer the question, but as far as DJ is concerned, his tackling was a worry of mine right after he was drafted. He would go for the big shoulder hit rather than wrapping up. I hope Friday's game serves as a wakeup call that he's a young man among grown men. Shoulder tackles don't cut it in the NFL. Every NFL team is stocked with All-American college players; the best of the best. Make the big hit, but wrap up while you're doing it.

Rey
08-11-2013, 11:02 AM
This is what pre-season is for. I think by time the regular season gets here guys will be more used to in game physicality and speed. But, we'll see...

CloakNNNdagger
08-11-2013, 11:21 AM
This is what pre-season is for. I think by time the regular season gets here guys will be more used to in game physicality and speed. But, we'll see...

That's what preseason last year was for...........and unfortunately, tackling during the season was very suspect........undoubtedly especially with STs.

drs23
08-11-2013, 03:16 PM
link (http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/eagles/tackling-needs-to-improve/article_746ab93d-1c9e-5653-81b4-d42ed40f24f7.html)

And there in lies a great deal of the problems of any team not allowing follow through tackling.

Effort to the ball=Looks like Tarzan

Not wrapping up=Plays like Jane

Swagg, was that you? :kitten:

Texecutioner
08-11-2013, 04:00 PM
I think this whole concept is rather silly. People forget that the best athletes in the world are running with the ball. They are at those offensive positions for "a reason." That reason is because they are extremely elusive and strong amongst other attributes. It ain't easy tackling any top flight offensive skill player. These guys know how to tackle just fine. If it was so easy we wouldn't see hardly any scoring from any teams all these years. I don't think that doing less tackling drills is causing any of this. I think that people are just looking for reasons to point the finger at for missed tackles. You can do all of the tackling drills in the world, but it's not going to make it a hell of a lot easier to tackle a guy like AP in the open field or Jamal Charles if you take a bad angle at the guy running across the field, or have a healthy Andre Johnson running at you when you don't have great timing to get your body ready to explode at him when he gets close. Guys know how to tackle just fine in the NFL. They're having to tackle the best guys in the world. It aint easy.

Vinny
08-11-2013, 04:13 PM
DJ looked like Keo bouncing off that FB instead of a future starting S. If I remember correctly Keo bounced right off guys his first game also. I think some of these "big hitters" in College find out that they better use more technique at the pay for play level since the Pros are a little bigger and stronger than College boy. I think we see sloppy tackling just about every year right off the bat. It takes a game or two for everybody to adjust to the contact every year, especially the rookies. It's hard and a little bit unnatural giving up your bodies welfare and throwing your body at someone. It's all a part of getting in "football shape".

bayoudreamn
08-11-2013, 10:45 PM
I'm afraid that the tackling in preseason does impact the number and severity of injuries and I'm kinda freaked about all the injuries this year.

I'm going to have to vote leave it alone and fix the tackling as we get to and into the regular season. Tackling is a something you can control/fix short term.....you're kind of stuck with the injury. Injuries aren't someting "we'll work on fixing that on Wednesday"

Rey
08-11-2013, 11:12 PM
Swearinger missed that tackle on Line, but he had an ok game otherwise. He had some other good tackles as well. Pleasant couldn't get him down either, but he had a nice game otherwise as well.

I'm not worried about that. Yeah, I'd like to see then get the guy down, but I think we'll be fine. Everyone that's ever played defense has missed some tackles. It happens. You just don't want it to become a habit.

drs23
08-12-2013, 12:10 AM
Swearinger missed that tackle on Line, but he had an ok game otherwise. He had some other good tackles as well. Pleasant couldn't get him down either, but he had a nice game otherwise as well.

I'm not worried about that. Yeah, I'd like to see then get the guy down, but I think we'll be fine. Everyone that's ever played defense has missed some tackles. It happens. You just don't want it to become a habit.

DJ agrees as well. In his post game interview he said he made a mistake by trying to "blow him up" instead of going low and taking his legs out, that he's learned his lesson and it wouldn't happen again. I really hope that's the case. I wonder how difficult it is to 'unlearn' a playing style though as the hard hit vs. wrapping up has been his MO seemingly forever.

If he's really learned his lesson I think he'll only improve. I can't wait to see that!

DocBar
08-12-2013, 12:14 AM
DJ agrees as well. In his post game interview he said he made a mistake by trying to "blow him up" instead of going low and taking his legs out, that he's learned his lesson and it wouldn't happen again. I really hope that's the case. I wonder how difficult it is to 'unlearn' a playing style though as the hard hit vs. wrapping up has been his MO seemingly forever.

If he's really learned his lesson I think he'll only improve. I can't wait to see that!I hope DJ learned a lesson, but you CAN make a good tackle and blow they guy up at the same time. I hope THAT is the lesson DJ learns.

I've seen way too many examples of DB's diving at the feet of receivers and whiffing. Just wrap up instead of lowering the shoulder. Not difficult.

Rey
08-12-2013, 12:38 AM
I wonder how many people have actually seen him play and not just watched highlights or heard people talk about him. Yes he has some big hits, but he's a solid tackler. On the play where he missed the tackle, he tried to deliver a blow and wrap up. Look at it again...he brought his arms, he just missed.

As far as db's not wrapping up a lot of times, it's because they are usually smaller than the guys they are tackling. Not many db's are meeting a rb in the open and tackling how a LB would. Some guys just can't physically wrap other guys up and make tackles so they try to go through their legs and take them out that way.

Then you have some guys that can wrap up but they want to deliver a massive blow and they'll hit a guy up top without wrapping up.

silvrhand
08-12-2013, 09:49 AM
Tackling was always rough once you got to make full speed contact, it's all about the angles and small adjustments. It takes a bit to get back used to the speed of the game.. it's the first pre-season game relax.

:kitten:

noxiousdog
08-12-2013, 10:11 AM
Steve McKinney was on 13's extra points show and said that even when he was playing all the way back with the Colts they didn't do much tackling at training camp.

So, it's not really a new thing.

CloakNNNdagger
08-12-2013, 08:19 PM
Steve McKinney was on 13's extra points show and said that even when he was playing all the way back with the Colts they didn't do much tackling at training camp.

So, it's not really a new thing.

When did the Indy Colts ever have a good defense?

DocBar
08-12-2013, 09:11 PM
When did the Indy Colts ever have a good defense?

:lol:

Texan_Bill
08-12-2013, 09:16 PM
DJ looked like Keo bouncing off that FB instead of a future starting S. If I remember correctly Keo bounced right off guys his first game also. I think some of these "big hitters" in College find out that they better use more technique at the pay for play level since the Pros are a little bigger and stronger than College boy. I think we see sloppy tackling just about every year right off the bat. It takes a game or two for everybody to adjust to the contact every year, especially the rookies. It's hard and a little bit unnatural giving up your bodies welfare and throwing your body at someone. It's all a part of getting in "football shape".

/EndConverstion