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DX-TEX
08-07-2013, 11:29 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000226797/article/matt-schaub-must-rise-in-allornothing-year-for-houston-texans

Meet Matt Schaub, the most significant player in the NFL this season.

Hyperbole? Hardly.

The Houston Texans are, in theory, ready to dance. Owner Bob McNair is one of the finest leaders in the NFL. The roster is rich, as general manager Rick Smith has put together a championship core with great surrounding parts.

Simply put: The Texans have the best roster in the AFC.

Still, there's a "yeah, but" attached to Houston. Conventional wisdom says this is a top-tier Super Bowl competitor. Yeah, but can Matt Schaub beat one of the living legends, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, in the playoffs? Can he go on the road and knock off Joe Flacco and the defending champion Baltimore Ravens in Week 3? Can he take care of division rival Andrew Luck in December?

This is usually the time of year when the word "elite" overwhelms quarterback chatter. Which quarterbacks are elite? Who's declaring himself as such?

Nobody will argue for Matt Schaub in this discussion. Schaub is a very good, winning quarterback. The question isn't whether or not Schaub is elite, it's whether or not Schaub is capable of taking Houston to the one place the Texans expect to be in February: MetLife Stadium, for Super Bowl XLVIII.

Matt Schaub's 2012 season was somewhere between solid and strong. He finished tied for 15th in touchdown passes (with 22) while ranking 11th in passing yards (4,008) and sixth in completion percentage (64.3). Schaub threw just 12 picks in 544 passes.

That's all good. But it has to be better. Just ask Matt Schaub.

NBC cameras caught the usually stoic quarterback fist pumping with a deserved expression of satisfaction on his face.

Big deal, eh Matt?

"It was," Schaub confirmed last week. "To me, personally, after dealing with what I dealt with the year before, with my foot injury and coming back and fighting all the way back to that moment. How disappointing the last month had been. Winning the division, but falling short of the ultimate regular-season goal of getting a 1 seed. To go out there and win that game and have that play and to be put in that position to get the ball to Garrett to where we seal the deal. He made the play and took a pretty good hit for it, but it was a good moment. I guess that's what that expressed when the camera caught that, but I don't want to make too big a deal of it, because that was only one step in the climb towards a championship. But that was a big deal for me."


The AFC is wide open. Frankly, compared to the NFC, I think it is very weak. The opportunity is there for Houston. Schaub craves a championship, knowing that the writing is on the wall with this group.

"At this point, after the last couple of years, it's a championship or nothing for us," Schaub said.

There's a positive vibe about Houston around the league. What's the vibe about Schaub?

A rival player told me this: "I like Matt. He's a good player. He got over a hump last year. I think that will help him get over the next one. And you can never underestimate his toughness."

As one general manager explained, "If DeAndre Hopkins steps up at receiver opposite Andre, that's big. Can Matt and Gary top Brady and (Bill) Belichick in the playoffs? I know Houston has a better defense and run game. Matt must be a positive in that spot. Last December was concerning."

Another GM says Schaub is not Brady or Aaron Rodgers and doesn't elevate his receivers: "He can spin the rock, but lacks the 'it' factor. Needs a great supporting cast and he has a chance. Not sure he has the receiving corps to get it done."

A couple years ago I never would have thought I would hear the word "toughness" used about Matt. He has a lot to prove and all the pressure to go along with it.

While most point at the faltering of the defense down the stretch last season the blame still falls on the QB. He is the team leader and the face so he gets the blame because he didn't exactly play good.

This team though is loaded from top to bottom and I honestly believe that they are the most talented in the AFC and top 3 in the NFL.

eriadoc
08-07-2013, 01:04 PM
Going into 2012, everyone said the Texans were a starting QB away from the Super Bowl. Well, they got their starter back for all 16 games in 2012. 'Nuff said.

Playoffs
08-07-2013, 01:18 PM
Interesting read, thanks for posting.

thunderkyss
08-07-2013, 01:19 PM
This team though is loaded from top to bottom and I honestly believe that they are the most talented in the AFC and top 3 in the NFL.

We're kinda sorta where the Cowboys were with Wade & Parcells. Very few people would argue those weren't talented teams, but the question was around their QB. They had a defense, they had a run game, but they also had Tony Romo.

I like Romo as a player, love to watch him play. But I don't want him as a Texan, because of that choke factor. Totally different type of player than Schaub, but the end results so far has been the same.

We should have won the Super Bowl in 2011. No doubt in my mind we'd have beat New England in the AFC Championship game.

We should have won the Super Bowl in 2012, you can't tell me we aren't talented enough.

I think our window closes here in 2013. If we don't win it this year, we're not going to with the group we have here; Smith, Kubiak, & Schaub. We might win 10 games in 2014, but we won't be as close to a Super Bowl as we are today. They won't change Matt Schaub, they won't change Gary Kubiak & we might be a "good" play off team through 2016, but we'll never be closer to a Super Bowl than we are now if we don't win it in 2013.

TexansRule1
08-07-2013, 01:43 PM
I think our window closes here in 2013. If we don't win it this year, we're not going to with the group we have here; Smith, Kubiak, & Schaub. We might win 10 games in 2014, but we won't be as close to a Super Bowl as we are today. They won't change Matt Schaub, they won't change Gary Kubiak & we might be a "good" play off team through 2016, but we'll never be closer to a Super Bowl than we are now if we don't win it in 2013.

Can you elaborate on this? Why?

thunderkyss
08-07-2013, 02:01 PM
Can you elaborate on this? Why?

I'm just being Debbie Downer.

We're extremely lucky that Aj is still playing at the level he is playing at. & Arian Foster is already past the life expectancy of the avg running back.

Antonio had a career year in 2011, then again in 2012. Chances of him doing it again is slim. Jj Watt can't play any better than he did last season (I know... I know...)

But we aren't as young as we used to be & it's going to be difficult to keep this up past three years.... this would be our third year of 10+ wins.

The Colts finally got one after years with Peyton, we could get lucky like that, but I think the odds are against it.

The Patriots haven't won one, since Tom Brady became the Patriots. Remember they used to have a run game & a defense...

But the time is now, if we don't win it this year, I don't think we will anytime soon. We might be good enough to win 10 games in 2015 & 2016, but after that... not so much.

since02
08-07-2013, 09:29 PM
I think our window closes here in 2013. If we don't win it this year, we're not going to with the group we have here; Smith, Kubiak, & Schaub. We might win 10 games in 2014, but we won't be as close to a Super Bowl as we are today. They won't change Matt Schaub, they won't change Gary Kubiak & we might be a "good" play off team through 2016, but we'll never be closer to a Super Bowl than we are now if we don't win it in 2013.

I agree, but I'm basing it not on age, and how players produced the past two seasons... I'm basing it on the fact that ALOT of contacts of key players are coming up and were not going to be able to retain alot of them... The core of the team is soon to fall apart.

The Pencil Neck
08-08-2013, 12:01 AM
I agree, but I'm basing it not on age, and how players produced the past two seasons... I'm basing it on the fact that ALOT of contacts of key players are coming up and were not going to be able to retain alot of them... The core of the team is soon to fall apart.

Who do you consider the "core" of the team?

2014: Antonio Smith, Cushing
2015: OD, Manning, KJ, JJ Watt
2016: JJo, Chris Myers
2017: AJ, Schaub, Arian, Hopkins
2019: Duane Brown

This FO has done a good job stockpiling talent and has been almost draconian in letting people go before they turn into an issue: Dunta, Demeco, Winston, Brisiel. The mark of a good FO is the ability to re-load by letting costly vets go, signing the important guys, and drafting everyone's replacement. This FO has shown signs they can do that.

So I'm not worried about losing the core players at this point. We'll burn that bridge when we get there.

Surreal McCoy
08-08-2013, 08:07 AM
Who do you consider the "core" of the team?

2014: Antonio Smith, Cushing
2015: OD, Manning, KJ, JJ Watt
2016: JJo, Chris Myers
2017: AJ, Schaub, Arian, Hopkins
2019: Duane Brown

This FO has done a good job stockpiling talent and has been almost draconian in letting people go before they turn into an issue: Dunta, Demeco, Winston, Brisiel. The mark of a good FO is the ability to re-load by letting costly vets go, signing the important guys, and drafting everyone's replacement. This FO has shown signs they can do that.

So I'm not worried about losing the core players at this point. We'll burn that bridge when we get there.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to The Pencil Neck again"

Mr teX
08-08-2013, 02:12 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000226797/article/matt-schaub-must-rise-in-allornothing-year-for-houston-texans









A couple years ago I never would have thought I would hear the word "toughness" used about Matt. He has a lot to prove and all the pressure to go along with it.

While most point at the faltering of the defense down the stretch last season the blame still falls on the QB. He is the team leader and the face so he gets the blame because he didn't exactly play good.

This team though is loaded from top to bottom and I honestly believe that they are the most talented in the AFC and top 3 in the NFL.

Uh, no it's actually been quite the opposite. People placing the lions share of the blame on Matt and pretty much giving the defense a pass.

76Texan
08-08-2013, 04:06 PM
Uh, no it's actually been quite the opposite. People placing the lions share of the blame on Matt and pretty much giving the defense a pass.

I heard a lot about how we had no outside pass rush, how our ILBs suck after losing Cush, how we had no presence in the middle, how Demps, Keo, McCain, B Harris, and Ball suck.

I heard how our ST was terrible, and that Marciano should have been fired.

But everything is still on the QB. :)

Playoffs
08-14-2013, 07:59 PM
Everything I can find from TC of his footwork, Dr. CND...

http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp08142013_Wyckoff_DSC_9486--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp08142013_Wyckoff_DSC_9487--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp_BB13327--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp_BB13333--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/07-July/temp_BB12719--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp_BB15898--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp_BB14674--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG
--houstontexans.com

Playoffs
08-14-2013, 08:00 PM
http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2013/08-August/temp_BB13531--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG

Courtesy http://www.texansbullpen.com/

http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-07-29-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0158.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-07-29-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0175.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-07-29-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0176.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-07-29-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0189.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-07-29-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0273.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-07-29-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0134.JPG

Courtesy http://www.texansbullpen.com/

Playoffs
08-26-2013, 02:05 PM
Courtesy of TexansBullpen: http://www.texansbullpen.com/

http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0276.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0415.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0430.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0462.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0574.JPG

Courtesy of TexansBullpen: http://www.texansbullpen.com/

Looking better Doc, no?

76Texan
08-26-2013, 02:29 PM
I think Schaub looks less like a statue so far this preseason.
I think the weigh loss can help him a little this year.
I hope is probably a better choice of words. :good:

idymoe
08-26-2013, 05:48 PM
Courtesy of TexansBullpen: http://www.texansbullpen.com/

http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0276.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0415.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0430.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0462.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0574.JPG

Courtesy of TexansBullpen: http://www.texansbullpen.com/

Looking better Doc, no?


Check out Brooks in each one of those shots.

drs23
08-26-2013, 06:51 PM
Check out Brooks in each one of those shots.

Yeah, he's a hoss. Never heard his name called, a good thing.

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 06:55 PM
I think Schaub looks less like a statue so far this preseason.
I think the weigh loss can help him a little this year.
I hope is probably a better choice of words. :good:

I was at the game Sunday and he looks slower in real life than on TV

Scooter
08-26-2013, 06:59 PM
Check out Brooks in each one of those shots.

IMO he's been the best lineman during preseason. any time i focus on brooks, his man is absolutely stoned. he's even able to tag one guy and slide to help outside, effectively collecting two blocks. i'm also seeing fewer and fewer mental issues, he's firing off better and more decisively each outing.

newton on the other hand, well mama said if i cant say something nice ...

infantrycak
08-26-2013, 07:25 PM
anybody catch that fox graphic in the saints game where they showed schaub's win loss record vs playoff or winning teams?

Yeah, and it is a bogus stat. Teams win and lose games and every one of them does better against non-playoff teams.

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 07:28 PM
anybody catch that fox graphic in the saints game where they showed schaub's win loss record vs playoff or winning teams?

he was like 30 something wins vs 15 losses vs non playoff elite teams then he was like an atrocious 10-27 vs elite playoff teams?

anybody have a screen cap of that stat?

Not to be a Schaub defender but how many of those games did he lose when he faced the Manning lead Colts twice a year with a craptastic defense? We have only been good for two years now and has been the QB 7 years?

Given the two losses to the Pats and Packers last season doesn't help but he also beat the Ravens and Broncos last season.

bOODRO87
08-26-2013, 07:29 PM
anybody catch that fox graphic in the saints game where they showed schaub's win loss record vs playoff or winning teams?

he was like 30 something wins vs 15 losses vs non playoff elite teams then he was like an atrocious 10-27 vs elite playoff teams?

anybody have a screen cap of that stat?

I caught that, too.

Schaub looked good yesterday, but he usually does in the first half of the season when the pressure isn't on. We all know what happened when the games got bigger. Hopefully, it was a learning experience for ol' Schaubie.

Otherwise... Well, at least the Rockets look like a contender!

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 07:53 PM
i dont think its a bogus stat. win loss records of QBs are often talked about by nfl analysts.



so since its against manning and the fact that we had a bad defense it doesnt count? it only counts when we have a great defense?

i dont get that all.
.

Um.......Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc.... can not do it alone. You cant hold one player accountable for wins/losses when some of the pieces are damn near non existant. Did you see how bad our defense was in those early Schaub years??

Texan_Bill
08-26-2013, 08:22 PM
Yeah, and it is a bogus stat. Teams win and lose games and every one of them does better against non-playoff teams.

The fact that you had to respond to that says a lot. :ahhaha:

thunderkyss
08-26-2013, 08:53 PM
of course. you act as if brees, rogers, and manning have always had great defenses around they year in and year out. they havent. they have had bad defenses, they have had to deal with injuries.

of course you cant do it alone.

that's why matt schaub had a pro bowl left tackle, pro bowl left guard, pro bowl center, pro bowl running back, pro bowl wide receiver, and a pro bowl caliber tight end. Yet offense still struggled.

But dont let those facts keep you from defending schaub.

Not to defend Schaub, but the Patriots had the 31st ranked defense in 2011 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1), the Packers had the 32nd. The Patriots were in the Super Bowl that year & the Packers were bounced from the divisional round.

In 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1) we had the 30th ranked defense & Schaub led us to 6-10.

DX-TEX
08-26-2013, 08:55 PM
of course. you act as if brees, rogers, and manning have always had great defenses around they year in and year out. they havent. they have had bad defenses, they have had to deal with injuries.

of course you cant do it alone.

that's why matt schaub had a pro bowl left tackle, pro bowl left guard, pro bowl center, pro bowl running back, pro bowl wide receiver, and a pro bowl caliber tight end. Yet offense still struggled.

But dont let those facts keep you from defending schaub.

Oh please, I am one of the biggest Schaub detractors here. But it is just stupid to pin those losses on one player. If they are an elite team as posted in your original quote then one man can NOT beat them. Its a watered down statistic and anyone with any knowledge of the league knows this.

Must mean Manning sucks since he lost all those games to the Steelers and Pats.
Brady must suck because he couldn't beat Eli twice
Brees must suck because his team finished with a losing record last season.

See how it works?

potisyourfriend
08-26-2013, 09:37 PM
I was at the game Sunday and he looks slower in real life than on TV

lol

Playoffs
08-26-2013, 09:46 PM
I was at the game Sunday and he looks slower in real life than on TV

Yep, Schaub is a statue.

CloakNNNdagger
08-26-2013, 10:27 PM
Courtesy of TexansBullpen: http://www.texansbullpen.com/

http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0276.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0415.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0430.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0462.JPG
http://www.texansbullpen.com/13photogallery/Preseason/2013-08-25-Saints-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0574.JPG

Courtesy of TexansBullpen: http://www.texansbullpen.com/

Looking better Doc, no?

Thanks for the heads up. It's difficult to make out foot work on a still, or foot position, unless you see exactly where the ball was to be thrown in any one route. That takes video to put it in context. Viewing the game, it appeared that in some plays, the front foot position was correct. In some, it appeared errant. Those where he was hurried contained more of the errant. He continued to look slow when compared to pre-injury 2011. He is still throwing off of his back foot too often, and has shown no ability so far to simply quick side-step or play action to the left or show us any examples of his old jump passes. I'll continue to watch him as the season progress.........as will everyone else. As much as the Saints game was hyped as being a strong test for our offense, keep in mind that Ryan's 3-4 defense was just recently installed, and was hardly clicking. Schaub can certainly expect to be much more seriously challenged both in pass rush and pass coverage beginning the 1st quarter of the regular season. Only then will we truly begin to have an idea of how he will respond..........and, thereafter through the long season, how long he will "hold up."

paycheck71
08-26-2013, 10:38 PM
Not to defend Schaub, but the Patriots had the 31st ranked defense in 2011 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1), the Packers had the 32nd. The Patriots were in the Super Bowl that year & the Packers were bounced from the divisional round.

In 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1) we had the 30th ranked defense & Schaub led us to 6-10.

Soooo, you're saying Schaub isn't Manning or Brady? Not even the most hardcore Schaub defender would ever argue that.

I'm also pretty sure Manning and Brady's record vs playoff teams isn't as good as it is vs non-playoff teams. What does that mean? Nothing, it's just common sense.

TdotTexas2Step
08-26-2013, 11:01 PM
For me personally, he still has to make up for throwing the ball into the dirt in the playoffs against the Pats, even though there wasn't anywhere near him.

Sure, we've heard it before, Schaub has an internal clock built in. But you won't see Superbowl QBs do that. Internal clock or not, if you have time, you wait till the last possible second to throw it to the ground.

Maybe Schaub holds on to, and one of his receivers break away from their man.

I remember feeling disgusted when I saw that.

ObsiWan
08-26-2013, 11:31 PM
For me personally, he still has to make up for throwing the ball into the dirt in the playoffs against the Pats, even though there wasn't anywhere near him.

Sure, we've heard it before, Schaub has an internal clock built in. But you won't see Superbowl QBs do that. Internal clock or not, if you have time, you wait till the last possible second to throw it to the ground.

Maybe Schaub holds on to, and one of his receivers break away from their man.

I remember feeling disgusted when I saw that.

I'll see your throw in the dirt and raise you the rollout to the left where he escaped the rush (wonders!) then proceeded to try and force the ball to James (I can't catch playoff TDs in the end zone) Casey and got it picked off. The score was 24 - 13 Pats in the middle of the third qtr. We could have drawn to within 4 pts. The Pats turned that INT into 7 pts and never looked back.

THAT, my friend, was disgusting.

And I apologize for reviving that memory for those of you, like me, who are trying to delete all traces of that game from their brains.

silvrhand
08-26-2013, 11:33 PM
The article says it all, Schaub is a system QB, he's part of the puzzle not the different maker. If the defense can scheme or disrupt the system, then he's not going to throw the team on his shoulders and will them to a win.

When and if he does that, he'll carry us to a superbowl and I'll sit down with a huge piece of humble pie and video tape it and post it in facebook. Now that being said, of all the QB's on the roster I think Schaub is our best chance this year, unless he just goes downhill.

Yates/Keenum either have to step up, or we trade for someone if we have another end of year debacle with Schaub again, the QB's coming out college this year don't seem like we have top end talent.

thunderkyss
08-26-2013, 11:35 PM
Soooo, you're saying Schaub isn't Manning or Brady? Not even the most hardcore Schaub defender would ever argue that.


Sooooo, you're saying Brady & Rogers can do it alone? See, I was responding to the comments saying they couldn't.


I'm also pretty sure Manning and Brady's record vs playoff teams isn't as good as it is vs non-playoff teams. What does that mean? Nothing, it's just common sense.

Worse.

Sure. But I bet they have a winning record against those teams.

The only difference between Schaub & the elite QBs is his W-L record. Fair or not.

Texan_Bill
08-26-2013, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the heads up. It's difficult to make out foot work on a still, or foot position, unless you see exactly where the ball was to be thrown in any one route. That takes video to put it in context. Viewing the game, it appeared that in some plays, the front foot position was correct. In some, it appeared errant. Those where he was hurried contained more of the errant. He continued to look slow when compared to pre-injury 2011. He is still throwing off of his back foot too often, and has shown no ability so far to simply quick side-step or play action to the left or show us any examples of his old jump passes. I'll continue to watch him as the season progress.........as will everyone else. As much as the Saints game was hyped as being a strong test for our offense, keep in mind that Ryan's 3-4 defense was just recently installed, and was hardly clicking. Schaub can certainly expect to be much more seriously challenged both in pass rush and pass coverage beginning the 1st quarter of the regular season. Only then will we truly begin to have an idea of how he will respond..........and, thereafter through the long season, how long he will "hold up."

Blah, blah, blah, Doc!! Can his foot hold up this season???

First off, you called the "breakdown" of Schaub last season coming off his Lins Franc injury. A lot of past players that have been subjected to that same injury which many have never recovered from.

Bottom line question, can he make it back this season??

Have you seen anything in this preseason that tells you that his foot will hold up better than last season????

Scooter
08-26-2013, 11:54 PM
The article says it all, Schaub is a system QB, he's part of the puzzle not the different maker. If the defense can scheme or disrupt the system, then he's not going to throw the team on his shoulders and will them to a win.

When and if he does that, he'll carry us to a superbowl and I'll sit down with a huge piece of humble pie and video tape it and post it in facebook. Now that being said, of all the QB's on the roster I think Schaub is our best chance this year, unless he just goes downhill.

i'm a schaub homer and completely agree ... and i dont see anything wrong with that. we are a very strict, very system based team. and schaub fits that system very well. sure i'd like someone like eli or ben who can turn turds into touchdowns or brady and manning who can carry entire franchises, but schaub is good at playing kubiak's game while better quarterbacks wouldnt be. dude was on a run of 16-1 from 2011 through 2012 ... you have to be pretty good to do that regardless of what else is going on.

the rub for me is that schaub and kubiak both fall apart when pushed out of their comfort zone. i HATE our empty backfield sets and we probably have the ugliest draws/delays in football. we struggle to move the ball in ways that require us to spread out. we do however run arguably the best base offense in football with schaub. our time of possession is ridiculous and schaub is money in those areas.

the reason i and i think many here are rooting so hard for case is that he fills those deficiencies. he can run a spread offense, he can make something from nothing, and he gives a dimension that can worry defenses when we're not in our comfort zone ... all while still being able to handle our strengths in our base packages.

thunderkyss
08-26-2013, 11:55 PM
Blah, blah, blah, Doc!! Can his foot hold up this season???

First off, you called the "breakdown" of Schaub last season coming off his Lins Franc injury. A lot of past players that have been subjected to that same injury which many have never recovered from.

Bottom line question, can he make it back this season??

Have you seen anything in this preseason that tells you that his foot will hold up better than last season????

Better question, is if there's something they can shoot into his foot to mask the pain for about three hours or so.

thunderkyss
08-27-2013, 12:09 AM
i'm a schaub homer and completely agree ... and i dont see anything wrong with that. we are a very strict, very system based team. and schaub fits that system very well. sure i'd like someone like eli or ben who can turn turds into touchdowns or brady and manning who can carry entire franchises, but schaub is good at playing kubiak's game while better quarterbacks wouldnt be. dude was on a run of 16-1 from 2011 through 2012 ... you have to be pretty good to do that regardless of what else is going on.

the rub for me is that schaub and kubiak both fall apart when pushed out of their comfort zone. i HATE our empty backfield sets and we probably have the ugliest draws/delays in football. we struggle to move the ball in ways that require us to spread out. we do however run arguably the best base offense in football with schaub. our time of possession is ridiculous and schaub is money in those areas.

the reason i and i think many here are rooting so hard for case is that he fills those deficiencies. he can run a spread offense, he can make something from nothing, and he gives a dimension that can worry defenses when we're not in our comfort zone ... all while still being able to handle our strengths in our base packages.

Schaub led the league in passing when we opened the offense in 2009. More or less incorporating "the Spread"

Schaub's problem, & I know some don't want to hear it, is that he is not a leader. The reason he doesn't put the team on his shoulder & will them to a victory, is that he's along for the ride, just like they are. Waiting for instruction from someone else about how they should feel, or react.

It was a small thing, but I saw Tj look at one of our receivers, tapped his chest & you could read his lips, "My fault, that was on me." You saw him run into the endzone to celebrate a meaningless TD in a meaningless game. Case did the same thing, he ran from the 50 yard line into the endzone to celebrate a meaningless TD in a meaningless game.

Schaub gives us a conservative fist pump when we get into field goal range in a play-off game......... yeah.

I know that's all subjective & doesn't mean a lot. But think about this. Keyshawn Martin started the season pretty hot. A few dropped balls & he could barely get on the field. LeStar Jean came in for a few games, caught a ball or two.... failed to catch a few... then his appearances started to dwindle. Devier comes in, makes some nice catches, some nice plays.... then his Achilles prevented us from seeing how far that could have gone.

We just finished preseason game #3 & it appears Schaub has already forgotten anyone not named Andre Johnson. Granted, if Andre is open, you're going to throw the ball to Andre

Scooter
08-27-2013, 12:44 AM
sorry TK but i disagree with everything there. when schaub does or doesnt celebrate or get angry is absolutely meaningless and says nothing about his leadership. guys telling their first "nfl experience" is a phone call from matt, or describing offseason workouts with schaub, or getting ticked at reporters who say something negative ... that's leadership. that's a guy who's got the support of the players around him. his calm demeanor is a great asset as far as i'm concerned, quarterback isnt a position you want mood swings.

as for the receivers. if you're talking about last year, martin looked like crap as soon as the games started - he was a training camp hero. jean couldnt get separation and misses the easy ones. and posey was starting to show up as the season went along, the lone bright spot. what that has to do with schaub is beyond me though ... our wide receivers were pretty bad. their poor play is why we were so tightend heavy last year and why we wore down at the end of the season. it's a sad state when your trips bunch formation is daniels, graham, and casey. hopkins and hopefully posey can change that.

beerlover
08-27-2013, 01:08 AM
Schaubs problem is that he plays tentative. Can't do that especially under pressure you just get tighter & tighter. He needs to stop guiding his passes to receivers for one it's not an athletic move, two its longer developing & telegraphs his targets & three there's not enough zip on the ball all three add up to bad news. He needs to come out throwing a natural spiral, use his lower body more & zip it into tight windows, just let it rip :specnatz:

speedfreek
08-27-2013, 07:56 AM
The biggest problem I have with Schaub is that he lets the
"bigness" of the game get into his head and he plays tight.

In my opinion, the reason Schaub doesn't beat the elite
QB's is because he presses (mentally) and makes mistakes
leading to turnovers when he's playing them.

I saw this out of him in the NO game in 2011 and the Packer
and NE games in 2012.

I think this is entirely fixable, or it should be.. If he just
keeps his cool and plays he should be ok. It's not like his
talent level drops off when he plays these guys.

It's like he switches from wanting to win (against the typical
QB led teams) to "not wanting to lose" against the elite
QB's

Hopefully last year's playoff experience will help him overcome
this a bit..

TJ

LEATHERHEAD
08-27-2013, 07:57 AM
When you watch him on TV ,,its like,,,he does not have that look in his eyes(The eye of the Tiger)look!!!he has the (I hope nothing bad happens look)on his face..

I have never dogged Shaub--but last 4 games last year WAS SAD.

But a new year GO TEXANS:d:

dalemurphy
08-27-2013, 09:30 AM
34-15 against non-playoff teams, 10-23 against playoff teams.

Not saying that's all on him but some of it is.

Nevertheless, its a telling stat and the talk of him choking in big situations is justified.

44-38 is a good record... Would you rather he lose to the bad teams? That doesn't seem to be an odd record to me... We win fewer games against the really good teams. Doesn't that apply to every team in th nfl?

Much of those records were compiled in 2008-10 when schaub was slinging the ball all over the place and we lost games because of bad defense and no running game.

Does schaub need to play better than he did the last two months of 2013? YES!

Does he need to be better than he was in 2012 before the injury? No!

Playoffs
08-27-2013, 11:53 AM
Schaub's problem is he's not Drew Brees... or Aaron Rogers... or Tom Brady. :truck:

PHILLYTEXANFAN
08-27-2013, 12:08 PM
Schaub's problem is he's not Drew Brees... or Aaron Rogers... or Tom Brady. :truck:

His problem is no "consistent" reciever besides OD, AF, and Dre.

Mr teX
08-27-2013, 12:15 PM
For me personally, he still has to make up for throwing the ball into the dirt in the playoffs against the Pats, even though there wasn't anywhere near him.

Sure, we've heard it before, Schaub has an internal clock built in. But you won't see Superbowl QBs do that. Internal clock or not, if you have time, you wait till the last possible second to throw it to the ground.

Maybe Schaub holds on to, and one of his receivers break away from their man.

I remember feeling disgusted when I saw that.

So the guy's whole career is broken down to 1 play in your eyes? come on man, that's just ... part of the reason the guy has been hurt alot in his career is b/c he's taken too many unneccessary hits. Part of the reason for that is b/c his o-line sucked early on...the other part is b/c he was holding on to the ball too long waiting until the last minute for guys to come free.

As far as the bolded.. Manning is still doing what he's doing at his age b/c the guy's internal clock is legendary. He simply does not hold on to the ball. In the event that he's flushed from the pocket, most times he gets rid of it pretty quick...largely b/c he's a slug like schaub too. The only difference in the 2 as of right now is Manning gets to run his own offense how he sees fit & audible to......whatever...Schaub gets to audible, but he's got to do it within Gary's conservative as approach.

Mr teX
08-27-2013, 12:39 PM
Schaub's problem is he's not Drew Brees... or Aaron Rogers... or Tom Brady. :truck:

Basically.....People can't seem to grasp the fact that these guys they keep comparing him are HOFer's...That's all time greats over the history of the NFL. When u look at it from that perspective, he'll never be good enough no matter what he does.

I'm of the opinion that if Gary loosened the reigns on him & the offense a little bit, let him have more control & changed it up a little more...especially on 3rd and long... we'd be a better team for it in the end. We simply can't rely on sustaining 8 minute 9+ play drives like we do. It's a good strategy against not so good teams b/c those teams likely aren't good enough offensively to come back in a short time...but against better teams, we need more explosive plays to prevent them from sitting on our "running clock" base offense.

Schaub would probably throw more picks with this approach, but he'd also probably throw more TD's too. The conservatism is killing this team more than anything imo.

speedfreek
08-27-2013, 01:11 PM
That was one thing I noticed too.

Having worked in and around military agencies for a while
I can tell you that the demeanor of a born leader is very different
than that of others.

When Schaub gets angry, he gets motivated (Mays ear bite,
Suh nad kick, etc.) but he just doesn't seem to have that
"charge the hill with me!" drive most of the time.

TJ

Schaub led the league in passing when we opened the offense in 2009. More or less incorporating "the Spread"

Schaub's problem, & I know some don't want to hear it, is that he is not a leader. The reason he doesn't put the team on his shoulder & will them to a victory, is that he's along for the ride, just like they are. Waiting for instruction from someone else about how they should feel, or react.

It was a small thing, but I saw Tj look at one of our receivers, tapped his chest & you could read his lips, "My fault, that was on me." You saw him run into the endzone to celebrate a meaningless TD in a meaningless game. Case did the same thing, he ran from the 50 yard line into the endzone to celebrate a meaningless TD in a meaningless game.

Schaub gives us a conservative fist pump when we get into field goal range in a play-off game......... yeah.

I know that's all subjective & doesn't mean a lot. But think about this. Keyshawn Martin started the season pretty hot. A few dropped balls & he could barely get on the field. LeStar Jean came in for a few games, caught a ball or two.... failed to catch a few... then his appearances started to dwindle. Devier comes in, makes some nice catches, some nice plays.... then his Achilles prevented us from seeing how far that could have gone.

We just finished preseason game #3 & it appears Schaub has already forgotten anyone not named Andre Johnson. Granted, if Andre is open, you're going to throw the ball to Andre

TdotTexas2Step
08-27-2013, 02:44 PM
So the guy's whole career is broken down to 1 play in your eyes? come on man, that's just ... part of the reason the guy has been hurt alot in his career is b/c he's taken too many unneccessary hits. Part of the reason for that is b/c his o-line sucked early on...the other part is b/c he was holding on to the ball too long waiting until the last minute for guys to come free.

As far as the bolded.. Manning is still doing what he's doing at his age b/c the guy's internal clock is legendary. He simply does not hold on to the ball. In the event that he's flushed from the pocket, most times he gets rid of it pretty quick...largely b/c he's a slug like schaub too. The only difference in the 2 as of right now is Manning gets to run his own offense how he sees fit & audible to......whatever...Schaub gets to audible, but he's got to do it within Gary's conservative as approach.

I'm not summing up his career in one play, but that example does accurately reflect one of of Schaub's biggest flaws.

I can't ever recall Manning or Brady throwing the ball into the dirt in a playoff game while being safe in the pocket. You can have the best internal clock in the world, but it doesn't mean anything when you don't have the awareness to see that internal clock or not, you're still safe and you still have time.

Mr teX
08-27-2013, 03:54 PM
I'm not summing up his career in one play, but that example does accurately reflect one of of Schaub's biggest flaws.

I can't ever recall Manning or Brady throwing the ball into the dirt in a playoff game while being safe in the pocket. You can have the best internal clock in the world, but it doesn't mean anything when you don't have the awareness to see that internal clock or not, you're still safe and you still have time.

You must not watch alot of ball then......

It's one of the worst things you can say against an NFL quarterback. That they're scared of the defensive pass rush -- and hearing footsteps from phantom pass rushers who aren't close to them.

One day after telling media that New England Patriots QB Tom Brady is not "God," New York Giants defensive lineman Jason Pierre-Paul said he believes Brady felt pressure that wasn't there during the Giants' 24-20 victory in New England this season, according to Ian O'Connor of ESPNNewYork.com.

Asked how a consistent pass rush will affect Tom Terrific, JPP said Thursday:


I think it won't have much impact on his performance, because ... if you look at Week 9 when we played them, it's like he felt us...We went back on the film, we watched the film and we didn't really rush as we can as a defense. ... He was throwing balls on the ground and stuff.

Was Brady flinching from phantom pass rushers? Yes, said JPP:


Yeah, he was reacting to pressure that didn't exist and he was just throwing the ball places that there wasn't a receiver there. So imagine us just getting there even faster and we're actually doing out jobs and getting there and getting hits on him.


This was just last year...They all do it..Schaub is just unfairly singled out here for it is all.

Nawzer
08-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Schaub makes a snail look like Usain Bolt.

TdotTexas2Step
08-27-2013, 05:49 PM
You must not watch alot of ball then......



This was just last year...They all do it..Schaub is just unfairly singled out here for it is all.

Quote whatever you feel like quoting, but like I originally said in my post, I don't recall ever seeing Brady or Manning throw a ball into the dirt in a PLAYOFF game. When you're season is on the line, and there's no next game if you lose.

The whole playoff factor adds a lot to the context.

And if we want to add more context to your example, that giants patriots game was a regular season game that was very close throughout. Throwing into the dirt in a close regular season game is valid because of the different options you have, wanting to stay in striking distance, and wanting to stay healthy as a QB.

Being down by two scores in an elimination game, you don't throw the ball into the dirt.

Thank you for the "you don't watch a lot football" dig though.

CloakNNNdagger
08-27-2013, 06:34 PM
Blah, blah, blah, Doc!! Can his foot hold up this season???

First off, you called the "breakdown" of Schaub last season coming off his Lins Franc injury. A lot of past players that have been subjected to that same injury which many have never recovered from.

Bottom line question, can he make it back this season??

Have you seen anything in this preseason that tells you that his foot will hold up better than last season????



Since you didn't understand me the first time, I'll try to repeat it again:


BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I hope that cleared everything up for everyone now.







And if that didn't, maybe this will.

No one, including me, can be 100% sure that he won't play this season out, or that he will not be more effective this season than last. But by the known natural history of his injury, from what I've seen on the field thus far, and the fact that there are other factors that he could very well be dealing with on top of what he was dealing with last year, the odds are not with him.

Studies have shown that following Lisfranc fractures, up to 50% of patients will develop significant progressive arthritis (due to damage/loss of cartilage at the time of the injury) that can lead to debilitating pain, tenderness and stiffness of the joint(s) in the foot. This does not present immediately. It typically develops ~1-2 yrs following the injury (Schaub's occurred November 13, 2011.......1 year 9 months ago). Arthritis doesn't get better with continued trauma to the involved areas, and in fact usually encourages the progression.

Some people here have referred to my posts being "pessimistic" and "depressing" more times than not. Well, guys, INJURIES ARE DEPRESSING for both surgeons and realistic fans.

As to Schaub, he will have some challenging "ISSUES" that will be awaiting him, and which he will have to try to overcome this upcoming season.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_madbcicACZ1r7lskmo1_400.jpg

eriadoc
08-27-2013, 06:57 PM
Basically.....People can't seem to grasp the fact that these guys they keep comparing him are HOFer's...

Actually, people just compare him to Super Bowl winning QBs. Because that's the standard. That's the goal. I mean, I guess we could compare him to Brad Johnson, if you like. At the end of the day, all anyone wants is a Super Bowl win, and Schaub doesn't fill people with confidence. The QB position is more important than it ever was, increasingly so each season, and ours doesn't fill people with confidence that he can do the things that recent QBs have had to do to win Super Bowls. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB, but unless you have the '00 Ravens D, it's not good enough.

thunderkyss
08-27-2013, 07:02 PM
schaub is suppose to be a smart, reliable game manager but he cant even do that right. He throws ridiculous head scratching interceptions especially during crucial times and his ball placement is just horrible because he's not an accurate quarterback.

I was starting to take you serious, then you go & do this.

Schaub's got his faults, but you've missed the target all together. I agree his ball placement is curious at times, but I don't think that's because he is inaccurate. If you've watched him for the last 6 years, you'd know his problem isn't accuracy.

thunderkyss
08-27-2013, 07:35 PM
Studies have shown that following Lisfranc fractures, up to 50% of patients will develop significant progressive arthritis (due to damage/loss of cartilage at the time of the injury) that can lead to debilitating pain, tenderness and stiffness of the joint(s) in the foot. This does not present immediately. It typically develops ~1-2 yrs following the injury (Schaub's occurred November 13, 2011.......1 year 9 months ago). Arthritis doesn't get better with continued trauma to the involved areas, and in fact usually encourages the progression.


Imagine the Texans medical advisers shared thi same information with them 1 year 9 months ago. In your opinion what would have been the most prudent course of action for the Texans regarding the QB position?

The Third Man
08-27-2013, 11:43 PM
i really couldnt care less if you took me seriously or not.

You just like schaub are the ones that missed the target all together.

If schaub was an accurate quarterback, he wouldnt have horrible ball placement. lol.

Ive seen every single texans game in history including preseason. Schaub is not an accurate quarterback.

Your assessment is both faulty and meaningless.

DocBar
08-28-2013, 12:12 AM
I'm still not convinced that Schaub's seeming inability to extend plays or adlib is due to any fault of his. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that he's under direct orders from Kubiak to take a sack or throw the ball away rather than commit a turnover. The shortest path to Kubiak's doghouse is to commit a turnover.

I wouldn't underestimate the role Kubiak plays in the way Schaub performs on the field.

Schaub has his faults and limitations and Kubiak seems to be more willing to limit the faults and weaknesses than expand upon the positives and strengths.

Mr teX
08-28-2013, 11:03 AM
Actually, people just compare him to Super Bowl winning QBs. Because that's the standard. That's the goal. I mean, I guess we could compare him to Brad Johnson, if you like. At the end of the day, all anyone wants is a Super Bowl win, and Schaub doesn't fill people with confidence. The QB position is more important than it ever was, increasingly so each season, and ours doesn't fill people with confidence that he can do the things that recent QBs have had to do to win Super Bowls. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB, but unless you have the '00 Ravens D, it's not good enough.

The comparisons to Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer don't apply b/c Schuab is better than both those guys...in Trent Dilfer's case, better than he ever was. Nevertheless, i'm sure those respective ball clubs could care less how they got their champions.

Eli Manning nor Joe Flacco were considered anything before they won. and guys of their ilk have lead their teams to wins in 3 of the last 6 SB's. I'm sure before that happened their fans weren't exactly confident that they could do it either. As a matter of fact, the upper echelon qb's have lost more SB's than they won over the last 6 seasons.

As for the bolded, you couldn't be more wrong..the qb position as we know it is increasingly becoming less important when it comes to winning a SB; Largely b/c many head coaches in the NFL who don't have those prototypical franchise qb's (most) have started to tailor thier offenses to these non-traditional guys and are putting their resources elsewhere to build up the team as a whole. In addition to this, they're realizing that stepping outside the box at the right time in the season & especially in a 1 game win or go home scenario, can be the difference between winning and losing. Our coach hasn't realized this yet.

The other thing is why hold it against schaub to need a top rated defense to help him out but give guys like Ben Rothlisberger a pass? Here's a guy who sucked in his 1st SB appearance as a game manager but won anyway b/c he had a top 3 defense backing him...played better in his 2nd and got a ring.....but had the #1 rated defense backing him..& in his 3rd appearance he had the #1 rated defense backing him & he lost. Apart from those 3 seasons, his playoff record doesn't look any better than what Schaub has done...wildcard losses and everything. You could also say the same thing about Eli Manning.

My overriding point is that yes.... qb is the most important position, but it's not the only position & the most recent SB's defensive plays have been just as important as the offensive plays.

paycheck71
08-28-2013, 11:27 AM
i really couldnt care less if you took me seriously or not.

You just like schaub are the ones that missed the target all together.

If schaub was an accurate quarterback, he wouldnt have horrible ball placement. lol.

Ive seen every single texans game in history including preseason. Schaub is not an accurate quarterback.

yea according to you.

according to reality and game film, schaub has horrible ball placement.

but according to yall, he does have horrible ball placement but its not because he's inaccurate lol.....

smdh.....

Man, you're new here. Why be so confrontational right off the bat? Take it easy for a little bit... Get to know people...

paycheck71
08-28-2013, 11:32 AM
Sooooo, you're saying Brady & Rogers can do it alone? See, I was responding to the comments saying they couldn't.



Worse.

Sure. But I bet they have a winning record against those teams.

The only difference between Schaub & the elite QBs is his W-L record. Fair or not.

I really wan't replying just to your message, and I should have made that clearer.

I wish we did have the W-L stats for "elite" QB's vs playoff teams. Until then, I guess, it's pointless to argue about it. If they do consistently have a winning record vs playoff teams, I guess the argument that Schaub struggles vs such teams can then be made. I just thought that it was an obvious stat that FOX had the other day (record vs playoff teams not as good as vs non-playoff teams).

Can't promise that I'll look very hard, but I'll see if I can find something similar for other QB's.

Texian
08-28-2013, 12:15 PM
Can you elaborate on this? Why?

I kinda of agree with Thunderkyss on his assessment. I said from the time it became clear that the Colts would draft Luck and if Texans didn't try to counter with someone like RGIII that the Colts would return to the top of the AFC South in Luck's 3rd year. With $46 million to spend in FA this season the Colts return to eminence could be this year. Some Texans fans fail to acknowledge that some of the Texans successes of the last 2 years were directly related to Peyton's broken neck and Jeff Fisher's decision to leave the division. Today, it is how other teams in the division are improving that is also contributing to the closing of the Texans window of opportunity.

The Texans are managed by Coach Think which is Reactive, plan for the season at hand (put a band aid on it) vs GM Think which is Proactive, plan ahead with an eye 2-4 years ahead. Why Packers could win the Super Bowl with 17 players on IR and the Texans are toast with a couple of major injuries.

anybody catch that fox graphic in the saints game where they showed schaub's win loss record vs playoff or winning teams?

he was like 30 something wins vs 15 losses vs non playoff elite teams then he was like an atrocious 10-27 vs elite playoff teams?

anybody have a screen cap of that stat?

If you check Kubiak's record against > .500 teams it's paltry at best.

thunderkyss
08-28-2013, 03:01 PM
I kinda of agree with Thunderkyss on his assessment. I said from the time it became clear that the Colts would draft Luck and if Texans didn't try to counter with someone like RGIII that the Colts would return to the top of the AFC South in Luck's 3rd year.

I don't think very much of Andrew Luck & I really don't think the Colts will win the AFC South, this year or next.

But, Rex Ryan took the NYJets to the AFC Championship games two years in a row, once as a Wild Card with Mark Sanchez. I think it's very possible for Chuck Pagano & Luck to get to the AFC Championship game before the Texans & in the end, isn't that more important than who won the division?

Some coaches capitalize on what they've got. We don't. At least it doesn't seem like we do. That first year Sanchez got to the AFC Championship game, there was no doubt in my mind we were the better team. But since they beat us week 1, they got into the play offs, we didn't. That could have just as easily been us.

eriadoc
08-28-2013, 03:20 PM
I don't think very much of Andrew Luck ...

Well, that explains a lot.

silvrhand
08-28-2013, 03:33 PM
I was starting to take you serious, then you go & do this.

Schaub's got his faults, but you've missed the target all together. I agree his ball placement is curious at times, but I don't think that's because he is inaccurate. If you've watched him for the last 6 years, you'd know his problem isn't accuracy.

It's hard to say he's "accurate" in my view. Yah his completion % is great, but a lot of those are to Andre, who helps him a LOT. Down the field it is obvious that he can't throw the deep ball, and before anyone quotes me on look he threw 12 40+ yard throws last year blah blah. In almost every context of the deep ball that Matt throws the receiver almost always has to wait on the ball, then gets caught from behind by the defender. Instead of a touchdown we get a long completion.

Why does this drive me crazy, because then we are stuck in the red zone and have had real trouble in the red zone the last couple of years and we come away with 3 points.

CloakNNNdagger
08-28-2013, 03:34 PM
Imagine the Texans medical advisers shared thi same information with them 1 year 9 months ago. In your opinion what would have been the most prudent course of action for the Texans regarding the QB position?

At least try to make the offseason/preseason a legitimate open QB competition.

noxiousdog
08-28-2013, 03:42 PM
If you check Kubiak's record against > .500 teams it's paltry at best.

That's almost every coach. Even with the ridiculous run that Belichick has been on, he's only won 65% of his games. That's an average of 10 games a season.

Texian
08-28-2013, 04:38 PM
That's almost every coach.

The key word here is ALMOST and the GOOD coaches being the exception. If you check Kubiak's record against > .500 you will find it to be very average and ordinary when compared to the best coaches in the game, the Harbaughs, Belichick, McCarthy, Peyton, Parcels, Couglin,

noxiousdog
08-28-2013, 04:50 PM
The key word here is ALMOST and the GOOD coaches being the exception. If you check Kubiak's record against > .500 you will find it to be very average and ordinary when compared to the best coaches in the game, the Harbaughs, Belichick, McCarthy, Peyton, Parcels, Couglin,


No way is Coughlin above .500, nor John. Jim might be, but only because he's got a limited sample size. Peyton won't be.

Dammit, now I have to go research.

edit: Not going to research. Coughlin is only .555 for his career. That's against ALL teams. There's no way he's above .500 against good teams. You're giving coaches too much credit.

noxiousdog
08-28-2013, 05:18 PM
And just because I have to wait for some work stuff to finish,
in 2013 Green Bay played 9 good teams and lost 5 of them.

BlueSteel
08-28-2013, 05:42 PM
Schaub led the league in passing when we opened the offense in 2009.

If we bring back Ron Dayne that will fix all our problems! :kitten:

I feel like the addition of Foster and then run game turned us from a pass to set up the run team into a run to set up the pass team. Kubiak now turtles into "run the ball" mode way too frequently in my opinion where we used to air the ball out for explosive gains.

I miss that old pass heavy team!

Texian
08-28-2013, 05:43 PM
That's almost every coach. Even with the ridiculous run that Belichick has been on, he's only won 65% of his games. That's an average of 10 games a season.

You do understand that if you have a .650 + winning percentage that you're winning almost twice as many games as you lose don't you?

thunderkyss
08-28-2013, 06:15 PM
Well, that explains a lot.

Well see how Andre Luck's career develops & we'll see what our opinions of him explain.

It's hard to say he's "accurate" in my view. Yah his completion % is great, but a lot of those are to Andre, who helps him a LOT.

& Brady had Moss & Welker & Gronk, Peyton had Wayne & Harrison, Brees has Colston....

At least try to make the offseason/preseason a legitimate open QB competition.

Are you saying you'd have brought someone in to compete with Matt or are you saying you'd have given Yates/Keenum a shot at the starting job?

drs23
08-28-2013, 06:20 PM
Well see how Andre Luck's career develops & we'll see what our opinions of him explain.



& Brady had Moss & Welker & Gronk, Peyton had Wayne & Harrison, Brees has Colston....



Are you saying you'd have brought someone in to compete with Matt or are you saying you'd have given Yates/Keenum a shot at the starting job?

Ya left out Glock boy. Are you pre judging there TK? :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
08-28-2013, 06:25 PM
Well see how Andre Luck's career develops & we'll see what our opinions of him explain.



& Brady had Moss & Welker & Gronk, Peyton had Wayne & Harrison, Brees has Colston....



Are you saying you'd have brought someone in to compete with Matt or are you saying you'd have given Yates/Keenum a shot at the starting job?

The latter..........with honest and comparable competition. And if it worked out that Schaub was still determined to be the winner, my concerns would still be there, but my feelings of "what if" would not be lingering.

TejasTom
08-28-2013, 06:41 PM
The latter..........with honest and comparable competition. And if it worked out that Schaub was still determined to be the winner, my concerns would still be there, but my feelings of "what if" would not be lingering.

Me too.

thunderkyss
08-28-2013, 07:19 PM
The latter..........with honest and comparable competition. And if it worked out that Schaub was still determined to be the winner, my concerns would still be there, but my feelings of "what if" would not be lingering.

So you'd have brought in Carson Palmer or Alex Smith?

For the sake of argument, let's rule out ignorance & incompetence. Since they did not bring in comparable competition, what do you think that tells you?

CloakNNNdagger
08-28-2013, 07:42 PM
So you'd have brought in Carson Palmer or Alex Smith?

For the sake of argument, let's rule out ignorance & incompetence. Since they did not bring in comparable competition, what do you think that tells you?


No, what I meant was honest comparable competition between Schaub, Yates and Keenum.

DX-TEX
08-28-2013, 07:53 PM
We should bring in Mark Sanchez.

Thorn
08-28-2013, 07:57 PM
No, what I meant was honest comparable competition between Schaub, Yates and Keenum.

Schaub, despite his shortcomings, is still better and should be the starter. Yates seems to me to be destined to always be nothing more than a dependable backup. Keenum has the potential to be a starter, and a damn good one. But potential doesn't always make it in the NFL.

EllisUnit
08-28-2013, 08:20 PM
Schaub, despite his shortcomings, is still better and should be the starter. Yates seems to me to be destined to always be nothing more than a dependable backup. Keenum has the potential to be a starter, and a damn good one. But potential doesn't always make it in the NFL.

BUt you dont know how much and how far that potential can go unless you give him a shot, if we dont i can promise you someone will and i think we will regret it if that does happen.

DocBar
08-28-2013, 08:41 PM
We should bring in Mark Sanchez.Maybe we can do that after Rex Ryan trades for Tebow and releases Sanchez. :clown:

Thorn
08-28-2013, 08:46 PM
BUt you dont know how much and how far that potential can go unless you give him a shot, if we dont i can promise you someone will and i think we will regret it if that does happen.

I couldn't agree more. I'd hate like hell to loose Keenum to another team. If we keep him, and I think we will, after this season when his contract is up it's going to get interesting in Texan land.

DocBar
08-28-2013, 09:01 PM
I couldn't agree more. I'd hate like hell to loose Keenum to another team. If we keep him, and I think we will, after this season when his contract is up it's going to get interesting in Texan land. That part scares the hell out of me. We have so many big time contracts coming up in the next couple of years, it's going to be way more interesting than I like. Rick Smith is going to have to really earn his money to keep us out of cap hell. Who do you keep and who do you hope to replace through the draft?

I think Schaub is gone as soon as his guaranteed money is paid or he's traded(wouldn't that be something?) and it'll be either Yates or Keenum that replaces him. One thing I'm not certain of is if his guaranteed money is paid up after 2014. Could the team backload a contract for Cushing, sign him to a long term deal, that's friendly in the short term, pay Schaub off next year then renegotiate Cushing to a more front loaded deal?

ChampionTexan
08-28-2013, 09:20 PM
I couldn't agree more. I'd hate like hell to loose Keenum to another team. If we keep him, and I think we will, after this season when his contract is up it's going to get interesting in Texan land.

Case is currently under contract thru the 2014 season. If we keep him (all season), then this coming off-season isn't an issue.

paycheck71
08-28-2013, 09:27 PM
That part scares the hell out of me. We have so many big time contracts coming up in the next couple of years, it's going to be way more interesting than I like. Rick Smith is going to have to really earn his money to keep us out of cap hell. Who do you keep and who do you hope to replace through the draft?

I think Schaub is gone as soon as his guaranteed money is paid or he's traded(wouldn't that be something?) and it'll be either Yates or Keenum that replaces him. One thing I'm not certain of is if his guaranteed money is paid up after 2014. Could the team backload a contract for Cushing, sign him to a long term deal, that's friendly in the short term, pay Schaub off next year then renegotiate Cushing to a more front loaded deal?

The guaranteed portion of Schaub's base salary runs out after this year. After that only the prorated guaranteed bonus remains.

Details HERE (http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Matt%20Schaub&Position=QB&Team=Texans)

DocBar
08-28-2013, 09:49 PM
The guaranteed portion of Schaub's base salary runs out after this year. After that only the prorated guaranteed bonus remains.

Details HERE (http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Matt%20Schaub&Position=QB&Team=Texans)That makes no sense to me. I only see ~$19 mil through 2013. He's guaranteed ~$29 mil. What am I missing?

BTW, I'm looking at the cap number.

paycheck71
08-28-2013, 09:53 PM
That makes no sense to me. I only see ~$19 mil through 2013. He's guaranteed ~$29 mil. What am I missing?

BTW, I'm looking at the cap number.

The entire bonus $17.5MM is guaranteed, but is spread over the life of the contract for cap hit purposes.

Add to it 2012 and 2013 salaries, and you get 17.5+4.4+7.25=$29.15MM

infantrycak
08-28-2013, 09:55 PM
That makes no sense to me. I only see ~$19 mil through 2013. He's guaranteed ~$29 mil. What am I missing?

BTW, I'm looking at the cap number.

His signing bonus was $17.5, 2012 - $4.4, 2013 - $7.25 - Link
(http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/)

Which makes $29.15 guaranteed.

DocBar
08-28-2013, 09:58 PM
His signing bonus was $17.5, 2012 - $4.4, 2013 - $7.25 - Link
(http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/)

Which makes $29.15 guaranteed.

OK. I guess I was thinking his signing bonus was prorated.

We can look forward to the open QB competition in 2014 then. Unless we win the Super Bowl this year!!
:trophy:

infantrycak
08-28-2013, 10:00 PM
OK. I guess I was thinking his signing bonus was prorated.

It is for cap purposes but not for payment.

paycheck71
08-28-2013, 10:00 PM
OK. I guess I was thinking his signing bonus was prorated.

The cap hit is prorated. But all that money is guaranteed and paid when the contract is signed.

DocBar
08-28-2013, 10:02 PM
It is for cap purposes but not for payment.

The cap hit is prorated. But all that money is guaranteed and paid when the contract is signed. I see said the blind man. I wish my bank account could see one of those contract signings. :mcnugget:

paycheck71
08-28-2013, 10:19 PM
His signing bonus was $17.5, 2012 - $4.4, 2013 - $7.25 - Link
(http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/)

Which makes $29.15 guaranteed.

I see spotrac have changed their site layout a bit. I like it better than it was before. I still like that overthecap.com gives you dead money/cap savings for each contract year.

Norg
08-28-2013, 10:42 PM
I kinda of agree with Thunderkyss on his assessment. I said from the time it became clear that the Colts would draft Luck and if Texans didn't try to counter with someone like RGIII that the Colts would return to the top of the AFC South in Luck's 3rd year. With $46 million to spend in FA this season the Colts return to eminence could be this year. Some Texans fans fail to acknowledge that some of the Texans successes of the last 2 years were directly related to Peyton's broken neck and Jeff Fisher's decision to leave the division. Today, it is how other teams in the division are improving that is also contributing to the closing of the Texans window of opportunity.

The Texans are managed by Coach Think which is Reactive, plan for the season at hand (put a band aid on it) vs GM Think which is Proactive, plan ahead with an eye 2-4 years ahead. Why Packers could win the Super Bowl with 17 players on IR and the Texans are toast with a couple of major injuries.



If you check Kubiak's record against > .500 teams it's paltry at best.

I also think Luck will have a Slump this year they wont make the playoffs

I also think the Texans can win the divison this year and in 2014 and 2015

after that we will see how it goes but im not to worried about the rest of our divison yeah All of them are tough games no doubt but I just see the Texans over coming it all when it comes to the divison teams

Mr teX
08-29-2013, 10:36 AM
I don't think very much of Andrew Luck & I really don't think the Colts will win the AFC South, this year or next.

But, Rex Ryan took the NYJets to the AFC Championship games two years in a row, once as a Wild Card with Mark Sanchez. I think it's very possible for Chuck Pagano & Luck to get to the AFC Championship game before the Texans & in the end, isn't that more important than who won the division?

Some coaches capitalize on what they've got. We don't. At least it doesn't seem like we do. That first year Sanchez got to the AFC Championship game, there was no doubt in my mind we were the better team. But since they beat us week 1, they got into the play offs, we didn't. That could have just as easily been us.

Sorry T-skyss Luck is the real deal..the kid's gonna be good......he just won't be singlehandedly-carrying-his-team good...like Manning was for them. He's gonna need weapons around him to flourish. & in that regard we still have a good shot of staying competitive with them as we transition over the next couple of years. Aside from that, he's like any other qb..If you pressure him, he'll make mistakes. & :swatter: is 1 of the best at doing that so we should be in good shape.

thunderkyss
08-29-2013, 12:43 PM
Schaub, despite his shortcomings, is still better and should be the starter. Yates seems to me to be destined to always be nothing more than a dependable backup. Keenum has the potential to be a starter, and a damn good one. But potential doesn't always make it in the NFL.

I've yet to see anything to separate Yates & Keenum. I think either can be a good starter, but we won't know until we know.

Schaub.... the only thing that separates him from Yates/Keenum is that we've seen his decision making in real games that count & whether you like him or not, he gets the job done. I know some guys want to separate "games against good teams" & that's ok... but they cherry pick which teams they consider a "good team"

But as long as he's healthy, 9 out of 10 HCs are going to start him over the unknown Tj Yates & Case Keenum. While I don't want to see anyone get hurt, if Tj or Case is going to win a starting job it's going to be if Schaub gets hurt.

They'll have to come in & light it up (ala Kaepernick) if they don't, they don't & they'll be career back ups.

If Kubiak is truly worried about Schaub's foot & question whether he'll ever be the same, I expect to see the #2 to come in during garbage time to get "real" game experience. If he continues to leave Schaub in there, then I'll "know" he's not worried about Schaub's foot.

He'll say that he's trying to protect Matt, but if the #2 QB comes in the game, he's preparing for life without Matt.

eriadoc
08-29-2013, 12:52 PM
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/D1n5CQe1krI/mqdefault.jpg

thunderkyss
08-29-2013, 05:37 PM
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/D1n5CQe1krI/mqdefault.jpg

What do you mean dizzying? It's the way it is. Unless Schaub is hurt, or proven to be unable to play at his "avg" level, we're not going to cut Schaub. He's our QB until someone beats him on the field & the only way Tj or Keenum are going to get on the field, is if Schaub is hurt.

However, I do believe Kubiak questions Schaub's health. If that is true, then it's imperative to get his #2 as ready as possible to be the #1. That means taking snaps in garbage time.

thunderkyss
08-29-2013, 06:00 PM
Its not like schaub set the bar so high that nobody can follow and surpass his footsteps.

I think we're spoiled.

Schaub is a starting QB, period. If had not signed him to a deal last season & let him walk, he wouldn't be competing with anyone for a job. He''d have been picked up as a starting QB, just like Carson Palmer (& Schaub's been better than Palmer recently), just like Alex Smith (& Schaub's been at least as good as Smith recently).

All he's got is height & experience.


You're selling one of those two very, very short.

drs23
08-29-2013, 07:18 PM
I think we're spoiled.

Schaub is a starting QB, period. If had not signed him to a deal last season & let him walk, he wouldn't be competing with anyone for a job. He''d have been picked up as a starting QB, just like Carson Palmer (& Schaub's been better than Palmer recently), just like Alex Smith (& Schaub's been at least as good as Smith recently).

All he's got is height & experience.


You're selling one of those two very, very short.

I see what you did there. <insert squinty eyed cat here> :lol:

ATXtexanfan
08-29-2013, 07:42 PM
Schaub is the weak link. May he one day serve me crow with ghost peppers. Till then ...........

EllisUnit
08-29-2013, 07:45 PM
Schaub is the weak link. May he one day serve me crow with ghost peppers. Till then ...........

KJ served me crow, so its not IMPOSSIBLE, but i wouldnt get your appetite up for crow anytime soon

ATXtexanfan
08-29-2013, 08:03 PM
KJ served me crow, so its not IMPOSSIBLE, but i wouldnt get your appetite up for crow anytime soon

Nice. Man I hope schaub hops skips and jumps as a qb and a leader. It all rests on him. just shine for a season.

eriadoc
08-29-2013, 10:16 PM
TK, I just have to tell you, whatever grief I throw your way is coming from a good natured place. But I do think you've been channeling GP since he's been gone. :)

gafftop
08-29-2013, 10:17 PM
My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion.

thunderkyss
08-29-2013, 11:31 PM
Schaub is the weak link. May he one day serve me crow with ghost peppers. Till then ...........

I don't disagree with that. But if Schaub is our weak link, we're a pretty good football team. Schaub's got to take it to another level, or we've got to find someone who can.

Replacing Schaub isn't going to be as easy as some believe. There's a lot of things he doesn't do, but the thing he does well, is the thing a lot of more talented QBs don't have & why they can't make it in this league.

We won't know if Tj or Keenum has it, regardless how good we feel about it the odds are against both of them. Look at Kolb, look at Graham Harrell. Sure there are some success stories, but those are the exception to the rule.

Kaepernick had to take advantage of an opportunity given to him, Tj/Case will get there's, let's hope they make the most of it.