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legacy_gt
08-02-2013, 02:17 PM
http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/07-30-13-case-keenum-grabs-early-edge-in-texans-backup-qb-race-with-university-of-houston-moxie/

by Chris Baldwin

As the media horde swarms around Ed Reed, waiting on the first training camp words of the grizzled Hall of Famer to be, Case Keenum throws passes to undrafted free agent wide receiver Andy Cruse on another field.

In one sequence, Keenum tells Cruse — who is more of a longshot, wide-eyed dreamer than even Keenum himself ever was — when to cut on a certain route, playing it forward even as Reed talks about being thought of as the Houston Texans new wise "uncle."

This extra time on the field after practice is anything but a charity situation to Keenum though. If he didn't having willing wide receivers, you get the idea he'd call over his wife Kimberly, who is waiting patiently on the sideline after this packed open practice, and send her on a go route.


It's training camp now, the first preseason game is only 10 days away and Keenum's only gaining on Yates.

Keenum knows he needs to grab every chance. He'll squeeze in extra reps whenever — and however — he can.

"It's important," Keenum says of the post-practice work. "You want to feel good about what you're doing and end on a good note. It's a chance to work on things.

"If you had a bad rep in practice, you want to work on that and do it right. Make that play a good rep."

So Keenum gets in as many reps as he can. The former University of Houston quarterback star keeps pushing himself, almost willing himself into an NFL ready quarterback throw after throw . . . after throw. This is the Case Keenum way. He always wanted to know how many passes he threw and completed in each practice at UH and his old coach Kevin Sumlin made sure the hard data was available.

This analytical drive is starting to be recognized on the pro level as well. Texans coach Gary Kubiak is talking about just how hard Keenum is pushing T.J. Yates for the No. 2 quarterback job again. Kubiak said much of the same thing during OTAs (essentially offseason practices in shorts), but some Houston media voices refused to accept that truth. Some like 610 AM's Nick Wright downright mocked the idea.

Only it's training camp now, the first preseason game is only 10 days away and Keenum's only gaining on Yates.

"He’s having a really good camp," Kubiak says of Keenum. "I’ll be interested to see — he’s going to play a lot in the preseason. I’ve got to play him and T.J. a great deal."

Kubiak also notes how Yates is having some issues. "I think T.J. can throw the ball a little better than he’s throwing it," the coach says. "His arm is a little tired right now. They’re all tired. He missed a few this morning, but he made some plays.

"He’s in a very competitive situation right now with Case and that will work itself out throughout the course of the preseason."

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 03:00 PM
From culturemap (]http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/07-30-13-case-keenum-grabs-early-edge-in-texans-backup-qb-race-with-university-of-houston-moxie/)

by Chris Baldwin

Only it's training camp now, the first preseason game is only 10 days away and Keenum's only gaining on Yates.

"He’s having a really good camp," Kubiak says of Keenum. "I’ll be interested to see — he’s going to play a lot in the preseason. I’ve got to play him and T.J. a great deal."

Kubiak also notes how Yates is having some issues. "I think T.J. can throw the ball a little better than he’s throwing it," the coach says. "His arm is a little tired right now. They’re all tired. He missed a few this morning, but he made some plays.

"He’s in a very competitive situation right now with Case and that will work itself out throughout the course of the preseason."

If this was a more manipulative coach, a coach who didn't care about his players the way Kubiak does, one might argue that this simply could be a well-played ploy. A kick in the butt to a quarterback with some proven NFL experience (Yates).

Toying with his guys' emotions isn't really the Gary Kubiak way though. This isn't Rex Ryan. Kubiak doesn't just say things for effect.

No False Houston Texans Hope

Keenum has at least a shot at the No. 2 job.

There.

pirbroke
08-02-2013, 03:04 PM
Cool, I can't wait to watch these two during preseason.

michaelm
08-02-2013, 03:16 PM
If the race for QB2 is neck and neck at the end of the preseason, I'd give the nod to Keenum. I'd rather have the guy who fought and gained ground vs the one who was caught from behind.

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 03:37 PM
If the race for QB2 is neck and neck at the end of the preseason, I'd give the nod to Keenum. I'd rather have the guy who fought and gained ground vs the one who was caught from behind.

Don't listen to reporters. Jedi mind tricks work extremely well on the weak minded. Notice nowhere in that whole report that was quoted, but not quoted, did Gary Kubiak ever state that Keenum is the #2, that Keenum has surpassed Tj, or that Keenum will even make the team.

You've never seen anything like that on any of the other threads dedicated to the Texans preseason & thanks to the wonderful guys & gals we have here, if there is news about the Texans it's here.

The whole report that was quoted, but not, is just some reporters wishes & desires presented as fact, a sort of, "If I say it it must be true." Kind of thing. You're smarter than that.

The only edge out there, is in Kubiak's mind & he's not saying one way or the other.

b0ng
08-02-2013, 03:39 PM
Written by the same idiot who called JJ Watt a pizza boy on draft night while promoting the idea that the Texans would rue the day they chose him over Nick Fairley.

Yeah I'm not so sure his analysis skills are worth anything when it comes to football.

eriadoc
08-02-2013, 03:39 PM
I'm not going to lie, I want Keenum to win the backup job. I like some things Yates did, and I still don't think we fans have given the guy a fair shot, but I just think Keenum has an abundance of the sort of determination, drive, and work ethic that can lead a team a long way.

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 03:52 PM
I just think Keenum has an abundance of the sort of determination, drive, and work ethic that can lead a team a long way.

Well, hopefully Kubiak does the right thing & make the better of the two the back up. But I think he's going to go with Yates because he's been here longer. Thinking we'll probably see both of them in the regular season.

Matt is probably going to miss some time & one of those two are going to have to step up & be the man. Whoever Kubiak puts in I hope he trusts him enough to let him be a QB & not put everything on Foster's plate like last time.

DX-TEX
08-02-2013, 03:52 PM
Done want any part of Keenum. None.

legacy_gt
08-02-2013, 04:49 PM
Done want any part of Keenum. None.

because if he plays in a nfl game, you'll eat your words? lol

legacy_gt
08-02-2013, 04:52 PM
Well, hopefully Kubiak does the right thing & make the better of the two the back up. But I think he's going to go with Yates because he's been here longer. Thinking we'll probably see both of them in the regular season.

Matt is probably going to miss some time & one of those two are going to have to step up & be the man. Whoever Kubiak puts in I hope he trusts him enough to let him be a QB & not put everything on Foster's plate like last time.

regardless, keenum making a run at the 2nd spot makes everyone better. if the guy is working his tail off, everyone wins. I want a lot of competition with our 2nd and 3rd QB's against schaub. if he is even the 3rd qb (close with 2nd), Keenum will have moved up from last year.

michaelm
08-02-2013, 04:59 PM
Don't listen to reporters. Jedi mind tricks work extremely well on the weak minded. Notice nowhere in that whole report that was quoted, but not quoted, did Gary Kubiak ever state that Keenum is the #2, that Keenum has surpassed Tj, or that Keenum will even make the team.

You've never seen anything like that on any of the other threads dedicated to the Texans preseason & thanks to the wonderful guys & gals we have here, if there is news about the Texans it's here.

The whole report that was quoted, but not, is just some reporters wishes & desires presented as fact, a sort of, "If I say it it must be true." Kind of thing. You're smarter than that.

The only edge out there, is in Kubiak's mind & he's not saying one way or the other.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying anything being sold by anyone right now.
I'm just saying that I would give the nod to Keenum if he and Yates are neck and neck at the end of the preseason. If they are that close when the regular season kicks off, that means Keenum has improved a ton, or Yates has regressed a ton, so I give the edge to the ascending player.

I never thought Keenum would even sniff the regular season roster, and really still don't.

Porky
08-02-2013, 05:02 PM
By all accounts Keenum has made great strides. And I think he has a little bit of an "it" factor that TJ lacks in my view. He might even have more upside - TBD.

Having said that, he has to pass not one, but two guys with real NFL game experience, one of whom has playoff experience.

In my mind, Case has to not play even, or play a little better. He has to be clearly head and shoulders above TJ to be named #2. It has to be so obvious that Kubes has no choice.

To put it another way. it's a big game and the playoffs are on the line. Schaub just got sacked. It's 17 for the opponent, 10 for the Texans. There is 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Plenty of time. Looks like Schaub might be out the rest of the game, as he's limping to the sideline. Time to bring in your backup.

Now, do you want a guy there that's never taken a single NFL snap, or do you want the guy that led the team to the playoffs and was the starting QB in a playoff game?

If you answered the guy with no experience, then...

http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fetus-Facepalm.jpg

michaelm
08-02-2013, 05:08 PM
By all accounts Keenum has made great strides. And I think he has a little bit of an "it" factor that TJ lacks in my view. He might even have more upside - TBD.

Having said that, he has to pass not one, but two guys with real NFL game experience, one of whom has playoff experience.

In my mind, Case has to not play even, or play a little better. He has to be clearly head and shoulders above TJ to be named #2. It has to be so obvious that Kubes has no choice.

To put it another way. it's a big game and the playoffs are on the line. Schaub just got sacked. It's 17 for the opponent, 10 for the Texans. There is 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Plenty of time. Looks like Schaub might be out the rest of the game, as he's limping to the sideline. Time to bring in your backup.

Now, do you want a guy there that's never taken a single NFL snap, or do you want the guy that led the team to the playoffs and was the starting QB in a playoff game?

If you answered the guy with no experience, then...

http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fetus-Facepalm.jpg

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but Yates didn't have a single NFL snap when he was called on, so obviously it is possible for an inexperienced QB to come in and have success.

eriadoc
08-02-2013, 05:25 PM
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but Yates didn't have a single NFL snap when he was called on, so obviously it is possible for an inexperienced QB to come in and have success.

Actually, every QB that's ever played in the NFL had no NFL experience when they were first called upon. It's amazing we have any QBs at all!

michaelm
08-02-2013, 05:42 PM
Actually, every QB that's ever played in the NFL had no NFL experience when they were first called upon. It's amazing we have any QBs at all!

LOL. Touché.

Porky
08-02-2013, 05:50 PM
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but Yates didn't have a single NFL snap when he was called on, so obviously it is possible for an inexperienced QB to come in and have success.

Right I get that, but let's examine the apples to oranges comparison you are making.

Yates was the #3 that season. The reason he played at all wasn't because Kubes put him ahead of Leinart on the depth chart, it was because both #1 and #2 got injured. In short, Kubiak had no other reasonable course of action. It was Yates or bust.

And Case will play if both Schaub and Yates go down this year too. No difference.

And yes, I understand all QB's are inexperienced - until they are not. But Case was a UDFA. Maybe it shouldn't matter where you start, but if you don't believe that, I think you are very naive. There is a difference between being a #1 pick and being a UDFA. There just is. And yes, I realize Yates wasn't a #1 - I'm simply pointing out that where you start does make a difference in how quickly you get the chance to overtake the person above you.

76Texan
08-02-2013, 06:05 PM
What do these QBs have in common: Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Warren Moon, and Kurt Warner?

None of them were drafted.

What about Doug Flutie?
Well, he was drafted in the 11th round (285th overall),
so basically, he was also an UDFA.

Those are pretty good names there, would'nt you say?

infantrycak
08-02-2013, 06:05 PM
And yes, I understand all QB's are inexperienced - until they are not. But Case was a UDFA. Maybe it shouldn't matter where you start, but if you don't believe that, I think you are very naive. There is a difference between being a #1 pick and being a UDFA. There just is. And yes, I realize Yates wasn't a #1 - I'm simply pointing out that where you start does make a difference in how quickly you get the chance to overtake the person above you.

In the first off-season, yes. After that it basically means zilch unless the disparity is much greater.

76Texan
08-02-2013, 06:11 PM
There have been several more QBs that were undrafted and became starter in the NFL, most notably Jim Zorn, Jake Delhome, Dave Krieg, Jim Hart, and John Kitna.

So, no, I can't agree that Keenum has no shot at all.

cuppacoffee
08-02-2013, 06:14 PM
http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/07-30-13-case-keenum-grabs-early-edge-in-texans-backup-qb-race-with-university-of-houston-moxie/

by Chris Baldwin...



Reading this I don't really see where Keenum has "gained the edge" as the thread title claims.



:coffee:

PapaL
08-02-2013, 06:28 PM
Written by the same idiot who called JJ Watt a pizza boy on draft night while promoting the idea that the Texans would rue the day they chose him over Nick Fairley.

Yeah I'm not so sure his analysis skills are worth anything when it comes to football.

And that's all I need to read. Thanks b0ng!

76Texan
08-02-2013, 06:41 PM
The one thing I like is Kubiak mentioning how Keenum always has four or five plays per day that "can't be teached".

eriadoc
08-02-2013, 06:45 PM
The one thing I like is Kubiak mentioning how Keenum always has four or five plays per day that "can't be teached".

Are you suggesting that Kubiak uses Aggie grammar? :D

CloakNNNdagger
08-02-2013, 06:45 PM
With the running back play and defense play, in 2011, Yates was not really called upon to generate his own come from behinds......nor did he look like he could......he simply tried not to have games get out of hand by his own hand. That impression was not changed by last year's performance in the preseason or the times he came into 3 games for limited playing time, where he had 1 int, 1 sack and 0 TDs (won't rag on him for no TD).......in "garbage" time with an average passer rating of 35. Yates has never looked to me like he was capable of coming back from a significant deficit or putting up quick numbers on his own. Just my opinion that with the type of QB Keenum is, he has a better chance of developing into such weapon.

BullBlitz
08-02-2013, 06:49 PM
Gotta pull for Case. I hope he gets a chance to play this year.

Porky
08-02-2013, 06:53 PM
There have been several more QBs that were undrafted and became starter in the NFL, most notably Jim Zorn, Jake Delhome, Dave Krieg, Jim Hart, and John Kitna.

So, no, I can't agree that Keenum has no shot at all.

I'm not sure if that was directed at a particular individual. But I'll answer anyway. I never said he had no chance. But I don't think it's a high chance for sure. By all accounts he is light years ahead of last year, so that's good.

I still feel in the final analysis that Kubes is partially "highlighting" or playing up Keenum's progress in media reports and interviews as much or more because of what Keenum is doing, then what TJ is not. I think he's pushing Yates and trying his best to light a fire under TJ.

Competition typically makes one better, especially people that are natural competitors. I know I don't seem like it, but I am highly competitive. I won't let a 2 yr old win a game of tiddly winks. It's in my DNA that when faced with an adversary, I'm driven to be at my best. And I think most football players are the same. And Kubes knows that. He's no dummy.

So, my final analysis here is that I disagree with this author. I actually do think Kubes is quite capable of playing psychological mind games with his players. It's not like we haven't seen it before. One example - Mario Williams. :mariopalm:

legacy_gt
08-02-2013, 07:06 PM
Now, do you want a guy there that's never taken a single NFL snap, or do you want the guy that led the team to the playoffs and was the starting QB in a playoff game?

If you answered the guy with no experience, then...

http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fetus-Facepalm.jpg


i'll take kubs decision regardless. not some observation from people on the threads.

legacy_gt
08-02-2013, 07:07 PM
Reading this I don't really see where Keenum has "gained the edge" as the thread title claims.



:coffee:

the thread title is the title of the article

legacy_gt
08-02-2013, 07:09 PM
I'm not sure if that was directed at a particular individual. But I'll answer anyway. I never said he had no chance. But I don't think it's a high chance for sure. By all accounts he is light years ahead of last year, so that's good.

I still feel in the final analysis that Kubes is partially "highlighting" or playing up Keenum's progress in media reports and interviews as much or more because of what Keenum is doing, then what TJ is not. I think he's pushing Yates and trying his best to light a fire under TJ.

Competition typically makes one better, especially people that are natural competitors. I know I don't seem like it, but I am highly competitive. I won't let a 2 yr old win a game of tiddly winks. It's in my DNA that when faced with an adversary, I'm driven to be at my best. And I think most football players are the same. And Kubes knows that. He's no dummy.

So, my final analysis here is that I disagree with this author. I actually do think Kubes is quite capable of playing psychological mind games with his players. It's not like we haven't seen it before. One example - Mario Williams. :mariopalm:

keenum def has a high chance at being 3rd. yates was 3rd and played in the playoffs.

ObsiWan
08-02-2013, 07:19 PM
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but Yates didn't have a single NFL snap when he was called on, so obviously it is possible for an inexperienced QB to come in and have success.

Amen.

Yates, by most observers at training camp, is being caught from behind by someone that the NFL didn't even think was draft worthy. That Yates has had "playoff experience" is a matter of record. But I don't get the sense that he's stepping up, progressing enough, to legitimately challenge Schaub for the #1 spot. Don't you guys think that, in his third year, if Yates was "all that", that he should have Schaub looking nervously over his shoulder?

EllisUnit
08-02-2013, 07:34 PM
Gotta pull for Case. I hope he gets a chance to play this year.

That would mean Schaub has to get hurt, we all know you would love that though. So i believe you do hope he gets a chance.

ATXtexanfan
08-02-2013, 07:47 PM
Done want any part of Keenum. None.

this.

Hervoyel
08-02-2013, 08:12 PM
By all accounts Keenum has made great strides. And I think he has a little bit of an "it" factor that TJ lacks in my view. He might even have more upside - TBD.

Having said that, he has to pass not one, but two guys with real NFL game experience, one of whom has playoff experience.

In my mind, Case has to not play even, or play a little better. He has to be clearly head and shoulders above TJ to be named #2. It has to be so obvious that Kubes has no choice.

To put it another way. it's a big game and the playoffs are on the line. Schaub just got sacked. It's 17 for the opponent, 10 for the Texans. There is 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Plenty of time. Looks like Schaub might be out the rest of the game, as he's limping to the sideline. Time to bring in your backup.

Now, do you want a guy there that's never taken a single NFL snap, or do you want the guy that led the team to the playoffs and was the starting QB in a playoff game?

If you answered the guy with no experience, then...

http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fetus-Facepalm.jpg

At one point every QB in the NFL had never taken a single NFL snap. If that's the primary criteria that you base that decision on then by all means, play the guy. If for some reason you feel like the better choice is the rookie then you're by no means automatically failing. Someone should abort your fetus because he's a friggin idiot.

silentassassin
08-02-2013, 08:13 PM
That would mean Schaub has to get hurt, we all know you would love that though. So i believe you do hope he gets a chance.

Or it could mean at the end of the season when everything is locked up!

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 09:14 PM
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but Yates didn't have a single NFL snap when he was called on, so obviously it is possible for an inexperienced QB to come in and have success.

True, it can happen. When your choice is the guy who pretended to be a QB for the last 3 months or the guy who's been taken snaps at TE for the last three months...... you go with what you got. Roll the dice, see what happens.

Now, the situation is different. You've got a good idea how Tj will handle the huddle, & how the team will respond when Tj is in there. You've seen Tj under "live fire" & he pulled a game or two out of his butt for ya.

Kubiak does have the benefit of seeing Keenum in practice & maybe there is something there that would give Kubiak enough confidence in how Keenum would handle the huddle, the game, the "real" pressure... if he's got the short term memory that a QB needs.

But like Porky said, I think Keenum would have to show a lot for Kubiak to switch. A lot more than what he showed to not get himself drafted.

But... then again it makes no sense at all that he didn't get drafted.
Casey Austin "Case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Keenum)" Keenum (born February 17, 1988) is an American football quarterback who is currently on the Houston Texans practice squad. Keenum is the NCAA's all-time leader in total passing yards, touchdowns, and completions. On October 22, 2011, Keenum became the Football Bowl Subdivision's all-time leader in total offense. On October 27, 2011, Keenum became the all-time leader in total touchdown passes by an FBS quarterback. During that game he threw for nine touchdowns and 534 yards.
In the 2008 college football season, Keenum ranked first nationally in total offense and second in total passing yards.[1][2] As a result of his on-field contributions to Houston's success, Keenum was named to several All-American lists. He is the only quarterback in Division I FBS football history to have passed for more than 5,000 yards in each of three seasons.

Thorn
08-02-2013, 09:25 PM
We'll all be seeing him in action soon enough. Then we'll have a better idea. I hope like hell Keenum does well, but if he doesn't the damn world ain't coming to an end. LOL

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 09:48 PM
We'll all be seeing him in action soon enough. Then we'll have a better idea. I hope like hell Keenum does well, but if he doesn't the damn world ain't coming to an end. LOL

What's important to remember, is that it's the preseason. He'll be playing with guys who weren't good enough to make the starting team. Sometimes they'll catch the ball, sometimes they won't.

So even if he ends up with gaudy stats, if I'm the coach I'm judging Keenum (& Tj for that matter) based on how he executed the play, more than I'm judging him on the outcome of the play. Is he making good reads, is he rushing his feet, is the ball coming out on time (very important for what we do). If he holds the ball, then runs for a first down.... was that the best decision? If he could have thrown the ball like the play was designed, I'd have rathered he threw the ball. If his 3-4 receivers are all covered & he makes something out of nothing, that's totally different.

How is he getting in & out of the huddle, how is he at the line, does he see what I see... & if not, why not?

It's more about why he does what he does, than what he does.

Showtime100
08-02-2013, 09:55 PM
Amen.

Yates, by most observers at training camp, is being caught from behind by someone that the NFL didn't even think was draft worthy. That Yates has had "playoff experience" is a matter of record. But I don't get the sense that he's stepping up, progressing enough, to legitimately challenge Schaub for the #1 spot. Don't you guys think that, in his third year, if Yates was "all that", that he should have Schaub looking nervously over his shoulder?

Good post, Obs. MSR.

powda
08-02-2013, 10:03 PM
On 610 earlier today john mcclain basically guaranteed that keenum would be our starter a couple of years down the road. To me that means keenum has no shot at all. Case closed (pun intended.)

darnbni99a
08-02-2013, 10:35 PM
gonna be a nice battle

maddogmrb
08-02-2013, 10:44 PM
By all accounts Keenum has made great strides. And I think he has a little bit of an "it" factor that TJ lacks in my view. He might even have more upside - TBD.

Having said that, he has to pass not one, but two guys with real NFL game experience, one of whom has playoff experience.

In my mind, Case has to not play even, or play a little better. He has to be clearly head and shoulders above TJ to be named #2. It has to be so obvious that Kubes has no choice.

To put it another way. it's a big game and the playoffs are on the line. Schaub just got sacked. It's 17 for the opponent, 10 for the Texans. There is 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Plenty of time. Looks like Schaub might be out the rest of the game, as he's limping to the sideline. Time to bring in your backup.

Now, do you want a guy there that's never taken a single NFL snap, or do you want the guy that led the team to the playoffs and was the starting QB in a playoff game?

If you answered the guy with no experience, then...

http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fetus-Facepalm.jpg


If you had witnessed the numerous come from behind victories that Keenum led at UH there would be no discussion.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-02-2013, 10:47 PM
Good to know that Case doing well and stepping up. I hope this isn't due to TJ not stepping up. If both are playing better than the last year, it is all good for us as our quality depth at QB has been improved.

Go Texans!!!

badboy
08-02-2013, 10:52 PM
With the running back play and defense play, in 2011, Yates was not really called upon to generate his own come from behinds......nor did he look like he could......he simply tried not to have games get out of hand by his own hand. That impression was not changed by last year's performance in the preseason or the times he came into 3 games for limited playing time, where he had 1 int, 1 sack and 0 TDs (won't rag on him for no TD).......in "garbage" time with an average passer rating of 35. Yates has never looked to me like he was capable of coming back from a significant deficit or putting up quick numbers on his own. Just my opinion that with the type of QB Keenum is, he has a better chance of developing into such weapon.
I see Yates as a QB that you hope holds onto the game. I see Keenum as a creator that can take over a game. He keeps getting better and I'm not sure if Yates has topped out. I want the best 2 and the other traded. I see Schaub gone after 2014 with Yates or Keenum starting and a draft pick like Fales waiting and learning in the wings. Keenum and Fales are in my crystal ball. Trading Schaub and Yates for players/picks would be perfect scenario for me.

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 11:03 PM
Amen.

Yates, by most observers at training camp, is being caught from behind by someone that the NFL didn't even think was draft worthy. That Yates has had "playoff experience" is a matter of record. But I don't get the sense that he's stepping up, progressing enough, to legitimately challenge Schaub for the #1 spot. Don't you guys think that, in his third year, if Yates was "all that", that he should have Schaub looking nervously over his shoulder?

No.

Schaub may not be well liked by the fans, but Kubiak loves the guy. Schaub's job is safe & will be safe. After 2014 if Schaub wanted to sign an extension with the Texans I'm sure the Texans would do it paying him at least what he's getting paid now.

Our next starting QB is going to earn the job on the field, not in camp, not in FA.

Rey
08-02-2013, 11:20 PM
If Schaub struggles this year he's going to get pulled.

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 11:23 PM
If Schaub struggles this year he's going to get pulled.

I think either Chase or Tj will get a chance to show they should be starters, but more so because Schaub is going to get hurt.

Schaub won't struggle, history is against that.

infantrycak
08-02-2013, 11:35 PM
So many folks in so many threads projecting their hopes as predictions.

badboy
08-02-2013, 11:59 PM
So many folks in so many threads projecting their hopes as predictions.Yep but if we didn't you might not be a moderator. :kitten:

badboy
08-03-2013, 12:00 AM
No.

Schaub may not be well liked by the fans, but Kubiak loves the guy. Schaub's job is safe & will be safe. After 2014 if Schaub wanted to sign an extension with the Texans I'm sure the Texans would do it paying him at least what he's getting paid now.

Our next starting QB is going to earn the job on the field, not in camp, not in FA.FYI, Matt is under contract thru 2016.

Texans_Chick
08-03-2013, 12:02 AM
This article is a joke.

paycheck71
08-03-2013, 12:10 AM
FYI, Matt is under contract thru 2016.

I give it about a 10% chance he sees the end of that contract.

badboy
08-03-2013, 12:15 AM
I give it about a 10% chance he sees the end of that contract.
Agreed but he will be playing somewhere the next three years but maybe not the 4th barring injuries.

leebigeztx
08-03-2013, 12:19 AM
They can say what they want,but keenam is not a nfl quality qb. They can say what they want,but we've seen tj yates make plays in crucial parts of the game that won games. He did that as a rookie. Neither case or schaub wouldvehave made those plays with the pocket broken that yates did. So, I guess we will see.

thunderkyss
08-03-2013, 12:37 AM
I give it about a 10% chance he sees the end of that contract.

Agreed. If we get to the Super Bowl in the next two seasons, they'll redo his contract to put him in line with Flacco & Romo.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-03-2013, 12:51 AM
This article is a joke.

TC, how good in your eyes Case and TJ are doing? I trust your opinion more this article.

Texans_Chick
08-03-2013, 01:00 AM
TC, how good in your eyes Case and TJ are doing? I trust your opinion more this article.

I detail it in my blog post.

Articles like this one are exactly the reason I like to be at camp. I don't see what he is seeing. "Grabs early edge." Oh please.

And some of the strong views on what is happening at camp are from people who are there sporadically.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-03-2013, 01:22 AM
I detail it in my blog post.

Articles like this one are exactly the reason I like to be at camp. I don't see what he is seeing. "Grabs early edge." Oh please.

And some of the strong views on what is happening at camp are from people who are there sporadically.

Just got through reading your blog and thanks for info. I now have clearer understanding on what is happening at camp. Glad we have you as TTC member!

Brisco_County
08-03-2013, 02:05 AM
One of the reasons Keenum didn't get drafted is because his hindered combine performance supported what scouts were already suspicious of. He had actually pulled a hamstring when trying to improve his 40 time, and the injury affected his throwing. He had a much better performance during his Pro Day workout, but no one was paying attention by then.

From what I've been reading, Keenum has ample momentum towards winning the #2 spot. Kubiak has indicated that both Case and Yates will be playing an increased number of snaps in preseason as part of the competition, so the opportunity for Case is a realistic one.

Concerning Yates' chances: First off, I'm not going to put too much weight on his disappointing performance last season since (according to the Texans Huddle podcast) he was affected by elbow tendonitis all season. I do knock him for lapses of situational awareness, like in the Vikings game. What I know at this time is that Zierlein said that TJ has not created enough distance between himself and Keenum to have an advantage. So apparently he's vulnerable.

Though this thread is about the #2 spot, John McClain's assertion that Keenum is being groomed as the QB of the future is not unrealistic. Kubiak has already said that he believes Keenum will be a starter in the NFL, but my belief on this is more related to cap management. Schaub has two years of guaranteed money left, and JJ Watt will be due a monster contract in two years. And this is after Cushing's huge contract extension. Some veterans will be cut, and if Case (or some X-factor acquisition) possesses anywhere near the effectiveness of Schaub, then Schaub is a cap casualty.

Texn4life
08-03-2013, 02:56 AM
Preseason should separate the 2. I'll reserve judgement until I see them on the field with the lights on. TJ looked terrible in preseason last year and I didn't see enough of Case to say what I think he'll look like this year. Both of them need to step up in order for me to feel comfortable with our backup QB situation.

cuppacoffee
08-03-2013, 08:52 AM
the thread title is the title of the article

So I guess that makes it true then. :sarcasm:

Not blaming you for the journalistic leap.

:coffee:

thunderkyss
08-03-2013, 08:56 AM
One of the reasons Keenum didn't get drafted is because his hindered combine performance supported what scouts were already suspicious of. He had actually pulled a hamstring when trying to improve his 40 time, and the injury affected his throwing. He had a much better performance during his Pro Day workout, but no one was paying attention by then.

From what I've been reading, Keenum has ample momentum towards winning the #2 spot. Kubiak has indicated that both Case and Yates will be playing an increased number of snaps in preseason as part of the competition, so the opportunity for Case is a realistic one.

Concerning Yates' chances: First off, I'm not going to put too much weight on his disappointing performance last season since (according to the Texans Huddle podcast) he was affected by elbow tendonitis all season. I do knock him for lapses of situational awareness, like in the Vikings game. What I know at this time is that Zierlein said that TJ has not created enough distance between himself and Keenum to have an advantage. So apparently he's vulnerable.

Though this thread is about the #2 spot, John McClain's assertion that Keenum is being groomed as the QB of the future is not unrealistic. Kubiak has already said that he believes Keenum will be a starter in the NFL, but my belief on this is more related to cap management. Schaub has two years of guaranteed money left, and JJ Watt will be due a monster contract in two years. And this is after Cushing's huge contract extension. Some veterans will be cut, and if Case (or some X-factor acquisition) possesses anywhere near the effectiveness of Schaub, then Schaub is a cap casualty.

That's understandable, well thought out. But I think Kubiak understands there is a good chance we're going to see both of these QBs in 2013, in the event that Schaub gets hurt, so he needs both of them ready, which supports putting Keenum on the fast track. He doesn't want to put Keenum in the same situation Yates was in two years ago, thrown to the wolves with nothing but scout team reps (Yates didn't have any reps in our system other than what he had in camp before Lienart got here).

So I believe Kubiak looks at them as 2a & 2b. There's no real "competition" Yates will be the back up & Keenum will be ready to go if needed.

If Schaub gets hurt, Yates is going in. If Yates is ineffective, he will get pulled (something that was not an option 2 years ago). Then Keenum will get his chance.

If Schaub is out for an extended period of time, he may very well bounce back & forth between the two if neither shows themselves ready to be a starter.

In 2012, I'm sure Kubiak felt restricted because of his receiving options & their performance during real games. in 2013, it will be the same with the QBs. We'll see 100% of the play book with Schaub. I would assume we should expect to see 100% of the play book with Yates, & Gary is trying his damdest to get Keenum there as well.

But after that first game with Yates, in a real game situation, Kubiak will find out if Yates can or cannot handle 100% of the playbook. He should have a good feel for it since Yates has been in that situation before. At that time he probably ran 65% to 75% of the play book. & now Kubiak expects 80% before he pulls him. (I am totally making these numbers up).

So if Kubiak thinks 80% of the play book, plus Tj's ability to go off script is enough to win games with little risk, Tj will continue to play. If he thinks that 80% + offscript gives him a better shot at winning (because in this league, you need that off script ability) Matt Schaub will never see the field as our starter again.

If he thinks there's too much risk & Keenum can give us 100% of the play book, then he'll yank Yates & Keenum will start. Again, you don't know until you know, so expect that theoretical 100% number to come down once Keenum is in a real game that counts. Just like Tj's. Realistically Kubiak should be expecting 80% + off script ability. He's going to expect some mistakes, but not to see those mistakes again & again & again.

I think what we saw from Russel Wilson & Kaepernick was more like 70% of their offense plus a high off script ability & moderate risk. That got the Seahawks as far as we got & it got the 49ers to the Super Bowl.


All those numbers are made up, but I think it's the best way to describe my thought process & I believe Kubiak would follow a similar process. The main thing I wanted to convey is that Yates already has a real life quantifiable grade (including play offs), where Keenum does not & I think it's going to be really difficult for Keenum to overcome that. It can happen, Russell Wilson did it Last year, but Flynn did not play as much or as well as Yates did so his grade wasn't really as solid.

I'm rooting for Keenum, but I'm also rooting for Tj as long as we get a guy that gives us a chance to go all the way, I don't care which. But it doesn't make sense to me, to throw out what you've already got with Yates for an unknown. Even Kaepernick would never have seen the field if Smith didn't get hurt & Stevie Wonder can see the difference between Smith & Kaepernick.

silvrhand
08-03-2013, 09:17 AM
This article is a joke.

Agreed.

GoCoogs
08-03-2013, 10:11 AM
It all comes down to play in the preseason. If Case outplays Yates he should get the backup spot.

If Yates plays better or even, he should get it based on tenure and NFL experience.

silvrhand
08-03-2013, 10:51 AM
It all comes down to play in the preseason. If Case outplays Yates he should get the backup spot.

If Yates plays better or even, he should get it based on tenure and NFL experience.

Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

As much as I like them, a real QB needs to be drafted in the next year or two.

infantrycak
08-03-2013, 10:55 AM
Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

As much as I like them, a real QB needs to be drafted in the next year or two.

Join the conversation - it is about backup not successor.

Playoffs
08-03-2013, 11:06 AM
Articles like this one are exactly the reason I like to be at camp. I don't see what he is seeing. "Grabs early edge." Oh please.

And some of the strong views on what is happening at camp are from people who are there sporadically.

This was written to generate website hits/page clicks by an author with a demonstrated ignorance about pro football (http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/04-29-11-texans-will-rue-the-night-they-took-pizza-boy-watts-over-nick-fairley-houston-lover/).

It's the Florio Model of yellow - as in pee - journalism.

Thorn
08-03-2013, 11:26 AM
At least we are lucky enough to have a backup QB controversy. Some teams in the NFL don't even have a starting caliber QB, let alone any backups worth a crap.

GoCoogs
08-03-2013, 11:42 AM
Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

As much as I like them, a real QB needs to be drafted in the next year or two.

The main knock on his physical ability seem to be his height and arm strength. His arm strength was graded poor at the combine. But he was injured during the combine and did not throw well.

He threw much better at hisUH pro day. For what it's worth, one NFL scout in attendance told UH Blogger Sam Khan Jr. that Keenum had above average arm strength.

As far as height goes, his is not ideal but there have been other successful NFL QBs who were not the tallest guys.

Texans_Chick
08-03-2013, 12:42 PM
Just got through reading your blog and thanks for info. I now have clearer understanding on what is happening at camp. Glad we have you as TTC member!

Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.

legacy_gt
08-03-2013, 02:02 PM
So I guess that makes it true then. :sarcasm:

Not blaming you for the journalistic leap.

:coffee:

Never said it was true. I sited the article so people could discuss.

DX-TEX
08-03-2013, 03:03 PM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO

Im not sure who it was but some writer did an early NFL free agent 2014 list and who could potentially land where. They stated Cutler would wind up in Houston if Schaub falters again. I wouldn't give too much credence to this but the Bears haven't even discussed an extension with Cutler and he has history with Kubiak.

thunderkyss
08-03-2013, 03:20 PM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO

Im not sure who it was but some writer did an early NFL free agent 2014 list and who could potentially land where. They stated Cutler would wind up in Houston if Schaub falters again. I wouldn't give too much credence to this but the Bears haven't even discussed an extension with Cutler and he has history with Kubiak.

I'm all for replacing Schaub when the time comes due, but we should have learned by now, that Cutler is fools gold. Schaub has been better & healthier than Cutler since 2006.

76Texan
08-03-2013, 03:21 PM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted...

What do these QBs have in common: Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Warren Moon, and Kurt Warner?

None of them were drafted.

What about Doug Flutie?
Well, he was drafted in the 11th round (285th overall),
so basically, he was also an UDFA.

Those are pretty good names there, would'nt you say?

There have been several more QBs that were undrafted and became starter in the NFL, most notably Jim Zorn, Jake Delhome, Dave Krieg, Jim Hart, and John Kitna.

So, no, I can't agree that Keenum has no shot at all.

Now, this is not to say I predict Keenum will be a starting NFL QB, it's merely to point out that there has been a fair number of undrafted FAs that went on to very decent to excellent career in the NFL.

Some of them were damn good, and they weren't drafted.

ChampionTexan
08-03-2013, 03:23 PM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO

Im not sure who it was but some writer did an early NFL free agent 2014 list and who could potentially land where. They stated Cutler would wind up in Houston if Schaub falters again. I wouldn't give too much credence to this but the Bears haven't even discussed an extension with Cutler and he has history with Kubiak.

Cutler has no history with Kubiak.

CloakNNNdagger
08-03-2013, 03:30 PM
Cutler has no history with Kubiak.

You are absolutely wrong, CT! They played golf together in the Drive for Dinger golf tournament (for Heimerdinger) last year.:backsout:

infantrycak
08-03-2013, 03:33 PM
Cutler has no history with Kubiak.

Well other than that who wouldn't want him? - lower completion %, higher INT %, lower YPA, lower YPG, lower QB rating (by a lot). That has upgrade spelled all over it.

ChampionTexan
08-03-2013, 03:39 PM
You are absolutely wrong, CT! They played golf together in the Drive for Dinger golf tournament (for Heimerdinger) last year.:backsout:

Fair enough - I am very aware the the whole Kubiak/Schaub relationship started with a round of golf. :kitten:

mmwest
08-03-2013, 03:45 PM
Cutler is more of a head case where Matty boy doesn't have the big play instinct and can't keep a play alive to save his life. After the hit he took from Mays last year I do respect his toughness.

Case over Cutler. We all may be suprised

infantrycak
08-03-2013, 03:57 PM
Cutler is more of a head case where Matty boy doesn't have the big play instinct and can't keep a play alive to save his life.

Last four years:

Cutler 20+ 167, 40+ 22

Schaub 20+ 203, 40+ 41

Whose instincts have paid off?

thunderkyss
08-03-2013, 04:01 PM
Well other than that who wouldn't want him? - lower completion %, higher INT %, lower YPA, lower YPG, lower QB rating (by a lot). That has upgrade spelled all over it.

pssh.. he's got a stronger arm & he's more mobile.

Last four years:

Cutler 20+ 167, 40+ 22

Schaub 20+ 203, 40+ 41

Whose instincts have paid off?

Uh... Schaub is a system QB

mmwest
08-03-2013, 04:09 PM
Big play not in yds but in getting "it" when we need it and putting in the end zone. You can throw 20+ yd passes all day but still suck if that makes sense.
Just to make it clear ,I'm not a Schaub hater just wish he was more clutch.

infantrycak
08-03-2013, 04:31 PM
Big play not in yds but in getting "it" when we need it and putting in the end zone. You can throw 20+ yd passes all day but still suck if that makes sense.
Just to make it clear ,I'm not a Schaub hater just wish he was more clutch.

Hey I hear there is a guy available from around here who everyone said had the "it" factor.

Surreal McCoy
08-03-2013, 04:32 PM
Big play not in yds but in getting "it" when we need it and putting in the end zone. You can throw 20+ yd passes all day but still suck if that makes sense.
Just to make it clear ,I'm not a Schaub hater just wish he was more clutch.

Clutch like Cutler?

ATXtexanfan
08-03-2013, 04:44 PM
Hey I hear there is a guy available from around here who everyone said had the "it" factor.

nice

amazing80
08-03-2013, 06:27 PM
This is a tired old debate about Schaub. You are either for or against him, but even if your against him you know you have no other option right now. So its a moot point.

eriadoc
08-03-2013, 07:12 PM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods.

Some of us are saying we want Keenum to win or lose the BACKUP job on the field. ON. THE. FIELD. Not on some scouting report, not in your head, not in some hack writer's blog, and not on some message board. If he sucks on the field, you won't hear anyone clamoring for Keenum. No one's clamoring for him to be the starter now. We just want to see what he can do in PRESEASON.

One more point regarding the draft situation - just about every time we hear about some QB that got passed over in the draft that eventually becomes something, it's because he got a chance to play. When those kinds of guys don't get a chance to play, you don't know they can't hack it. You DO NOT KNOW. You're taking the word of every talking head, analyst, and draftnik that's repeated hand-me-down info over and over again. But the simple fact is, you don't know for sure that Case Keenum can't play in the NFL until you watch him succeed or fail. To put that into perspective, we were told guys like Flutie couldn't make it in the NFL. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees even after he had a chance. Steve Young was given up on. Case Keenum will not likely ever be like any of those guys, but the point is you don't know. None of us do. So some of us just want to watch the guy in PRESEASON.

Perspective. It's a great thing.

Porky
08-03-2013, 07:41 PM
If you had witnessed the numerous come from behind victories that Keenum led at UH there would be no discussion.

Ok you are right. College success always guarantees NFL success.

Signed,

Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, JP Losman, Graham Harell, Brady Quinn, David Klingler, Todd Marinivich, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Tim Tebow, Jeff George, David Carr, Joey Harrington, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, and Ryan Leaf.

:sarcasm:

thunderkyss
08-03-2013, 08:33 PM
To put that into perspective, we were told guys like Flutie couldn't make it in the NFL. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees even after he had a chance. Steve Young was given up on.

don't forget that guy who was stocking shelves, then became Super Bowl MVP.

BullBlitz
08-03-2013, 08:42 PM
Some of us are saying we want Keenum to win or lose the BACKUP job on the field. ON. THE. FIELD. Not on some scouting report, not in your head, not in some hack writer's blog, and not on some message board. If he sucks on the field, you won't hear anyone clamoring for Keenum. No one's clamoring for him to be the starter now. We just want to see what he can do in PRESEASON.

One more point regarding the draft situation - just about every time we hear about some QB that got passed over in the draft that eventually becomes something, it's because he got a chance to play. When those kinds of guys don't get a chance to play, you don't know they can't hack it. You DO NOT KNOW. You're taking the word of every talking head, analyst, and draftnik that's repeated hand-me-down info over and over again. But the simple fact is, you don't know for sure that Case Keenum can't play in the NFL until you watch him succeed or fail. To put that into perspective, we were told guys like Flutie couldn't make it in the NFL. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees even after he had a chance. Steve Young was given up on. Case Keenum will not likely ever be like any of those guys, but the point is you don't know. None of us do. So some of us just want to watch the guy in PRESEASON.

Perspective. It's a great thing.

Agree. It sounds like he might get some meaningful playing time in the preseason. If he does, I hope that he performs well and that we carry 3 QBs on the roster. If that happens, maybe he will get another opportunity in the regular season. It's up to him, but I'm pulling for him.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-03-2013, 09:02 PM
Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.

A fan like me living abroad do not get a chance to see the players in real action. So, only info I get through media or from hard core fans like here at TTC. When media starts to hype about your favorite team's player, you tend to get overly excited. Sometimes false information can play with your emotion going up and down and up and down. This is why I try hard not to get overly excited about the information I get from media. I usually confirm information through TTC message board as I believe the most knowledgeable fans are here.

Steph, I appreciate your hard work and look forward to more Texans' insights from you.

Brisco_County
08-03-2013, 10:04 PM
Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.

As you're probably aware, editors often change a headline to grab attention after the writer has submitted the final draft. For this article, do you think the problem is more with the headline or the content?

Brisco_County
08-03-2013, 11:59 PM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO.

I'm a Longhorn, but I've done my research on this player.

History has proven that draft status is not a valid disqualifier. Good talent often falls through the cracks for unfair reasons. Of all NFL fanbases, Houston's should appreciate that fact. Here is one of the reasons for Keenum's snubbing:

Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didn’t want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.

“I strained my hamstring on the second 40,” Keenum said on Monday after his performance at UH’s pro day. “I’m not a track guy or 400-hurdler or haven’t qualified for the Olympics but I think I was trying to at that point, trying to run a 4.3. But strained my hamstring on the second 40 and it kind of put me in a funk. I went over to see the trainers and (quarterbacks) were already warming up throwing. I’m not going to make excuses and I didn’t that day. I said ‘I”m out here, I’m going to throw.’ But it definitely wasn’t me at my best.”

Link (http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2012/03/quick-notes-from-houstons-pro-day/)

The other reasons for not being drafted were his size and that he is a system QB. Again, these are not valid disqualifiers.

Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

They can say what they want,but keenam is not a nfl quality qb.

Where does this come from?

If it's strictly opinion, I'll offer Kubiak's:

“I definitely can because you see what he has physically, how he can throw the football, how he reads defenses, and his command in the huddle. He has all those attributes and I definitely see him being able to play at this level. No doubt about it.”

If it's his athleticism, here's his Pro Day results:

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.

If it's his arm strength, here's what he did on Tuesday:

PDS ‏@PatDStat 10m
Case Keenum and Keshawn Martin with a huge reception. 50 yard bomb over Harris. Great coverage but better pass and catch.

You don't have to put your money on this horse, but at least admit he's a legit contender.

Hervoyel
08-04-2013, 12:36 AM
This is a tired old debate about Schaub. You are either for or against him, but even if your against him you know you have no other option right now. So its a moot point.


Exactly. Don't care for him all that much. Understand completely that he's not going anywhere short of catastrophic injury (which I would not wish on anyone) so I hope he succeeds despite my doubts.

drs23
08-04-2013, 12:44 AM
I'm a Longhorn, but I've done my research on this player.

You don't have to put your money on this horse, but at least admit he's a legit contender.

Great post and presentation. I'm like many others here as in I can't wait to see what he does in PS games. I'm also looking to see if TJ takes a major step forward. I'm of the opinion that if TJ doesn't show marked improvement his days are numbered. After reading the quote where Kubiak said that he needed to throw it better but at the same time he's said TJ's having a good camp.

I think preseason will tell us a whole lot.

Thorn
08-04-2013, 01:22 AM
6 more days and we'll see him in action. :)

CloakNNNdagger
08-04-2013, 09:18 AM
Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.



While Warren Sapp bench pressed 17........:)

BullBlitz
08-04-2013, 10:50 AM
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted.

Sometimes circumstances cause players to become overlooked by the entire league, as in Arian Foster, who as a Texan still had to work pretty hard and get a break to get his opportunity. So, your statement is simply wrong.

Some people have already made up their minds that Keenum can't play in this league. Others simply want to see him have an opportunity now that Kubiak says that he has become more comfortable and confident in the system.

Texans_Chick
08-04-2013, 10:56 AM
As you're probably aware, editors often change a headline to grab attention after the writer has submitted the final draft. For this article, do you think the problem is more with the headline or the content?

The headline is wildly inaccurate.

The article is a overly fawning pile of ****.

Yes, Case Keenum has improve from last year because he was horrible last year. And yes, Kubiak is pushing TJ to be better because he wants to create a sense of competition and urgency.

The article sounds like it was written by his dad or agent or something.

PapaL
08-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Some people have already made up their minds that Keenum can't play in this league. Others simply want to see him have an opportunity now that Kubiak says that he has become more comfortable and confident in the system.

And others are working on his HOF bust already.

:toropalm:

Playoffs
08-04-2013, 11:40 AM
As you're probably aware, editors often change a headline to grab attention after the writer has submitted the final draft. For this article, do you think the problem is more with the headline or the content?

He is the editor. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

And he's the same douche who called JJ Watt "pizza boy".

DX-TEX
08-04-2013, 12:41 PM
And others are working on his HOF bust already.

:toropalm:

So true!! rep to you sir!:goodpost:

BullBlitz
08-04-2013, 01:35 PM
So true!! rep to you sir!:goodpost:

Hardly.

Brisco_County
08-04-2013, 02:15 PM
The headline is wildly inaccurate.

The article is a overly fawning pile of ****.

Yes, Case Keenum has improve from last year because he was horrible last year. And yes, Kubiak is pushing TJ to be better because he wants to create a sense of competition and urgency.

The article sounds like it was written by his dad or agent or something.

No, it's not a great piece of writing, but it's way more entertaining the way you put it.

He is the editor. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

Wow. Ok, yeah... That publication sucks.

Lucky
08-04-2013, 02:40 PM
This article is a joke.

Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.


The headline is wildly inaccurate.

The article is a overly fawning pile of ****.

Yes, Case Keenum has improve from last year because he was horrible last year. And yes, Kubiak is pushing TJ to be better because he wants to create a sense of competition and urgency.

The article sounds like it was written by his dad or agent or something.
I agree that saying Keenum "has the early edge" as the Texans backup seems like an overstatement. Especially considering they haven't played a preseason game yet. But I don't see the "overly fawning pile of ****" you are referring to. He talks about Keenum and uses a couple of quotes from Kubiak. And while TJ may be taking the majority of 2nd team snaps, does that mean that much at this point? Keo is getting the majority of 1st team snaps over Swearinger, and I don't think anyone believes that will stand when the season begins. I just don't see the outrageousness in this that you seem to.


And he's the same douche who called JJ Watt "pizza boy".
To be fair, there was a room full of Texan fans booing Watt when he was selected. Most are now wearing 99 jerseys.

texanskan
08-04-2013, 02:46 PM
at practice Friday TJ Yates looked terrible. Case actually is perfect for this system and I hope if Schaub were to go down for any stretch of time we would have a qb in there who can continue to run the same offense with no restrictions

CloakNNNdagger
08-04-2013, 02:54 PM
at practice Friday TJ Yates looked terrible. Case actually is perfect for this system and I hope if Schaub were to go down for any stretch of time we would have a qb in there who can continue to run the same offense with no restrictions

Someone on 610 after practice was saying that they heard Kubiak say that Yates is showing no arm strength.

maddogmrb
08-04-2013, 03:01 PM
Steph generally does a really good job reporting on the Texans and we all appreciate her. When it comes to Case though she is obviously biased against him for some reason. In the end she may be correct but, for me, my money is on Case and he's a better game performer than practice performer. Let the preseason begin!

legacy_gt
08-04-2013, 03:45 PM
Steph generally does a really good job reporting on the Texans and we all appreciate her. When it comes to Case though she is obviously biased against him for some reason. In the end she may be correct but, for me, my money is on Case and he's a better game performer than practice performer. Let the preseason begin!

I agree she's biased against Case as well. Steph does do a good job. She's said the TJ has looked better than last year. There's actually conflicting reports on that. A friend saw TJ recently and he looked off. PLus she mentions that while Case has improved, it's expected. There's a real competition between Case and TJ and I just think it helps the team.

DX-TEX
08-04-2013, 03:57 PM
Steph generally does a really good job reporting on the Texans and we all appreciate her. When it comes to Case though she is obviously biased against him for some reason. In the end she may be correct but, for me, my money is on Case and he's a better game performer than practice performer. Let the preseason begin!

No offense but Steph has seen a full week of practice and your credentials are.....

Brisco_County
08-04-2013, 04:18 PM
Steph generally does a really good job reporting on the Texans and we all appreciate her. When it comes to Case though she is obviously biased against him for some reason. In the end she may be correct but, for me, my money is on Case and he's a better game performer than practice performer. Let the preseason begin!

I agree she's biased against Case as well. Steph does do a good job. She's said the TJ has looked better than last year. There's actually conflicting reports on that. A friend saw TJ recently and he looked off. PLus she mentions that while Case has improved, it's expected. There's a real competition between Case and TJ and I just think it helps the team.

Actually, what she's been saying is "don't read too much into things" as practice updates are relayed. Practice reps aren't always meaningful indicators. This isn't her first rodeo, and she knows it's best to remain prudent in assumptions/predictions at this stage.

Playoffs
08-04-2013, 04:29 PM
Steph... when it comes to Case though she is obviously biased against him for some reason.I agree she's biased against Case as well. Steph...
It's an easy hook to get page clicks to hype up a "Local Boy Strikes It Big" headline.

It's also easy to get caught up in groupthink -- media types congregate together at practices.

Steph avoids both of those pitfalls, which means she has integrity and experience. It's not bias against a player -- it's just she's not seeing it. And she's not alone. LZ and Seth haven't declared Case the #2.

Case has made huge strides. He knows the offense now. Everyone sees that. Tweeter-dee and tweeter-dum extrapolate that into a QB controversy. Pffft. Who's the most popular QB in town? The backup. In this case - excuse the pun - it's the local boy backup. It's early. Let's see how it plays out against other teams.

Hervoyel
08-04-2013, 05:01 PM
The headline is wildly inaccurate.

The article is a overly fawning pile of ****.

Yes, Case Keenum has improve from last year because he was horrible last year. And yes, Kubiak is pushing TJ to be better because he wants to create a sense of competition and urgency.

The article sounds like it was written by his dad or agent or something.


So what you're saying is don't get too excited when they run the "Keenum seizes inside track to unseat Schaub" story later in the week?

mmwest
08-04-2013, 05:21 PM
No offense but Steph has seen a full week of practice and your credentials are.....

and came from Jacksonville at that. . Hell if I knew how write correctly I could be the Texans reporter...............and speak without swearing would help too!

Playoffs
08-04-2013, 05:28 PM
and came from Jacksonville at that. . Hell if I knew how write correctly I could be the Texans reporter...............and speak without swearing would help too!
Huh? You know not of what you speak.

Brisco_County
08-04-2013, 05:41 PM
and came from Jacksonville at that. . Hell if I knew how write correctly I could be the Texans reporter...............and speak without swearing would help too!

Uh... What's the frequency Kenneth?

DX-TEX
08-04-2013, 05:56 PM
Someone on 610 after practice was saying that they heard Kubiak say that Yates is showing no arm strength.

Got him confused with Schaub!

rimshot...

thunderkyss
08-04-2013, 06:08 PM
and came from Jacksonville at that. . Hell if I knew how write correctly I could be the Texans reporter...............and speak without swearing would help too!

You're thinking of Tania Guglamoogli.... Steph is not a reporter, she's a fan like you & me who has devoted her time to write a blog, work with the chron to get media credentials so she can get access to places you & I can't go.

But, as far as I know, she's not getting paid. She's doing it to help you get the info you want.

mmwest
08-04-2013, 06:41 PM
My bad. Thanks for the correction.

maddogmrb
08-04-2013, 07:43 PM
No offense but Steph has seen a full week of practice and your credentials are.....

And so have others who are reporting things differently ...

thunderkyss
08-04-2013, 08:19 PM
And so have others who are reporting things differently ...

Not the guy who wrote the article in question.

Look, Tj Yates is the back up, he's #2. Kubiak has said nothing different. No one from the Texans organization has hinted different. Yes, they've said there is competition, but no one other than this guy has said anything about Keenum gaining any "edge"

I like Case. I'd love it if Keenum can win the starting role & continue his winning ways in Houston. Steph may have some bias against Keenum(I've never thought so), but here all she is saying is that the guy who wrote this article made up the "edge"

Thorn
08-04-2013, 08:25 PM
Friday is not so far off now. Not sure how much time he'll see. The first pre-season game I would imagine who ever goes in right after Schaub is done is the back up, at least for now. Frankly I'd be surprised if that's Case. Very pleasantly surprised, but surprised.

My guess is a couple of possessions for Schaub, at least two full quarters and then some for TJ, and the left overs to Case. If TJ isn't ready to be the backup by now he is in trouble anyway, not withstanding Case.

Rey
08-04-2013, 08:41 PM
I didn't read the article as the author saying that keenum is ahead of Yates. I read it as it saying that he has a good shot to get the #2 position.

No offense to Steph, but honestly my feeling on a lot of what she says and types is based on: 'those guys' with opinions I don't like...it's ridiculous; listen to me and what I have to say about it'.

They'll be plenty of time for everyone to see and debate who they think should be the back up. This article is just someone talking up keenum for the job. Who cares.

GoCoogs
08-04-2013, 09:43 PM
I don't have the benefit of being at Training Camp, and have to rely on what has been reported. From all accounts I have not heard of anything suggesting that Yates play on the field has distanced himself from Case.

That being the case, I don't see why it is such a stretch to entertain the thought that Case might win the backup job.

Texans_Chick seems to suggest that there is no possibility of this occurring. I read her blog and her reasons why. I understand that Case has practice squad eligibility and Yates does not. But I have still yet to hear any accounts that Yates play is significantly better than Keenum's so far this year.

This will all play out soon enough, and Yates may be the best QB for the job, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not count out Case Keenum.

paycheck71
08-04-2013, 10:18 PM
I don't have the benefit of being at Training Camp, and have to rely on what has been reported. From all accounts I have not heard of anything suggesting that Yates play on the field has distanced himself from Case.

That being the case, I don't see why it is such a stretch to entertain the thought that Case might win the backup job.

Texans_Chick seems to suggest that there is no possibility of this occurring. I read her blog and her reasons why. I understand that Case has practice squad eligibility and Yates does not. But I have still yet to hear any accounts that Yates play is significantly better than Keenum's so far this year.

This will all play out soon enough, and Yates may be the best QB for the job, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not count out Case Keenum.

I think the point is that TJ's play doesn't have to be significantly better than Keenum's. If he's better at all, he keeps his backup role.

76Texan
08-04-2013, 10:20 PM
The best chance for Keenum is just to make the team as one of the backup QBs.

Brady started out as a fourth string QB.

Flutie, after a year in the CFL, joined the NFL as a fourth string QB.

Jim Zorn made it as a third string QB his first year, but was cut early.
He latched on with the Seahawks the following year.

Dave Krieg was the third string QB his first two years.

Jeff Garcia started his career in the CFL as a third string QB, and didn't make the NFL until his fifth year.

Jake Delhome was on the PS for two years before making it as a third string QB.

It doesn't matter where you start, is what I try to say.

And I honestly can't agree that Keenum was horrible last year.
A horrible QB doesn't make the PS; it doesn't compute.

GoCoogs
08-04-2013, 10:44 PM
I think the point is that TJ's play doesn't have to be significantly better than Keenum's. If he's better at all, he keeps his backup role.

I am good with that, that's the way it should be.

maddogmrb
08-04-2013, 11:27 PM
I haven't heard anyone say Case is now the #2 .... only that (except for Steph) he has looked really good and is pushing TJ.

Personally, if I were the coaching staff and, at the end of preseason, Case has not asserted himself as the clear #2, then I would keep TJ as the #2 because of his experience. However, I would not risk losing Case being claimed off the PS.

I believe in Case and think he will start in this league. I don't expect it to be this year. But, I do believe he has more upside than TJ.

maddogmrb
08-04-2013, 11:33 PM
Ok you are right. College success always guarantees NFL success.

Signed,

Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, JP Losman, Graham Harell, Brady Quinn, David Klingler, Todd Marinivich, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Tim Tebow, Jeff George, David Carr, Joey Harrington, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, and Ryan Leaf.

:sarcasm:


Not worth replying to.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 01:33 AM
"grabs the early edge" means he has the early lead, he's on the inside track, it's his to lose.

Rey
08-05-2013, 08:21 AM
"grabs the early edge" means he has the early lead, he's on the inside track, it's his to lose.

That's just how you're taking it. If I'm studying for a test and I put in extra hours of study time I'm gaining and edge. If I am in line for a possible promotion and I put in extra work, I'm trying to gain an edge.

I just took the article as building keenum up as putting in extra work to gain whatever edge he could. Not that he's now in the lead for the back up qb job. I don't know what Yates is doing, but no one wrote an article about him. He could be doing things to gain an edge too.

But regardless of what the title is, the article says nothing about keenum being ahead of Yates.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 09:50 AM
They said he has the edge, not trying to gain an edge which would have been more accurate going by the other info we've gotten so far.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Rey
08-05-2013, 09:53 AM
They said he has the edge, not trying to gain an edge which would have been more accurate going by the other info we've gotten so far.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

That's not what the title says. Read it again. It says he grabs early edge. You're intepreting it as THE edge...However, I'm reading it as AN edge. Considering what the article actually says, I think AN edge is the best way to read it, but to each his/her own.



Sent from my Lap Top using The regular website

Playoffs
08-05-2013, 10:05 AM
I think we're going to have to bring in a PhD in Semantics to straighten this out - the franchise is riding on it. :kitten:

Sent by my noggin through my fingers out to the Interwebs.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 10:20 AM
That's not what the title says. Read it again. It says he grabs early edge. You're intepreting it as THE edge...However, I'm reading it as AN edge. Considering what the article actually says, I think AN edge is the best way to read it, but to each his/her own.



Sent from my Lap Top using The regular website

I won't try to interpret the title, but the article itself doesn't claim anything really. The strongest sentence was that Keenum is gaining on Yates.

This sounds like the correct scenario, in my eyes.

Gaining on means that Keenum is still trailing (for whatever reason); he has yet to surpass Yates.

Even those who who think that Keenum wasn't much of anything last year agreed that he has made good stride.
The only way that Yates can keep the same distance is for him to improve by the same amount, something I haven't heard from anybody, including TC or Lance Z.

By those accounts, it should be clear that Keenum is gaining on Yates; by how much, I don't know.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 10:41 AM
Now, more on undrafted QBs.

Kurt Warner wasn't doing anything his first four years after college.
He only joined the NFL as a third string QB in his fifth year.

The Seahawks had three QBs in 1997; they only brought in Kitna as third stringer when their starter went down with an injury.

Romo was a third stringer in 2004.
He wasn't thought of very highly entering 2005, as the Cowboys signed veteran Testaverde and traded a third rounder to obtain Drew Henson.
Quincy Carter was the starter (a former second rounder in 2001.)
It looked as if Romo was about to be cut when Carter failed a drug test; who knows where Romo might be now had Carter stayed clean.

As far as not being concern about another team claiming a young QB off waiver; it sure sounds logical, but there's always a risk.
Matt Moore was an UDFA in 07 when the Cowboys waived him on Sep 1.
The Panthers scooped him up the next day.

legacy_gt
08-05-2013, 10:49 AM
Everyone today on 610 (mark) is saying Keenum is doing well but all comes down to the preseason games.

Haters can hate but Case is making a run at 2nd. If he's working really hard and given a chance to play in the pre-season (something I feel he didn't last yr) and playing well, he will be the 2nd guy.

I really like Yates. He showed he can run and throw. But he had a terrible last year and some of those decisions last year were terrible. He's going into his 3rd year and Yates hasn't shown some significant improvement.

If anything, the battle between the two (TJvsCase) makes the team much better.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 11:17 AM
Another name that I recall is Chase Daniel who also went undrafted.
He was cut by the Redskins on the final day of cut and was picked up by the Saints the next day.
A year later, he battled with Patrick Ramsey and won the backup job.

ChampionTexan
08-05-2013, 11:43 AM
Now, more on undrafted QBs.

As far as not being concern about another team claiming a young QB off waiver; it sure sounds logical, but there's always a risk.
Matt Moore was an UDFA in 07 when the Cowboys waived him on Sep 1.
The Panthers scooped him up the next day.

Another name that I recall is Chase Daniel who also went undrafted.
He was cut by the Redskins on the final day of cut and was picked up by the Saints the next day.
A year later, he battled with Patrick Ramsey and won the backup job.

First, it depends on the preseason. When Moore was picked up, he was coming off of a preseason where he had a 72% completion rate, and a 100.1 QB rating. I think virtually everybody expects it to improve, but consider that in his rookie season, Case's preseason showed a completion percentage of 50%, and a rating of 68.8. If Chase has a QB rating of over 100 this preseason, I think there's an excellent chance he'll be on the Texans 53 man roster.

As to Mr. Daniel, your memory is a bit off. Yeah, he did end up with the Saints the next day, but he ended up there because nobody claimed him off of waivers, and for whatever reason he chose to be on the Saints practice squad rather than the Redskins. He actually did get promoted to the 53 man roster in late Sept. of his rookie year, but he also ended up getting waived 3 times that season (twice from the active roster, and once from the PS). It was actually January of 2010 before he was promoted to the 53 man roster and stayed there.

Look - I don't think think there are many folks (even within the context of this thread) saying Case has zero chance to become a legitimate NFL QB, but just like there are a few folks who (IMO) are unrealistically adamant in their stance that he's destined to be a starter in the NFL, there's some who (for whatever reason) choose to write off his chances prematurely.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 11:54 AM
Then we have Gary Danielson who was undrafted and spent two years in
the WFL before making it a career in the NFL.

Steve Deberg was drafted at #275 overall, which is basically an UDFA.
He went on to a long career after not making the roster his first year.

A lesser name is Jay Fielder, who was undrafted.
After not playing in 1995, he became a college coach for two years before making it to the NFL in 1998, finishing with a career 37-23 record.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Romo was a third stringer in 2004.
He wasn't thought of very highly entering 2005, as the Cowboys signed veteran Testaverde and traded a third rounder to obtain Drew Henson.
Quincy Carter was the starter (a former second rounder in 2001.)
It looked as if Romo was about to be cut when Carter failed a drug test; who knows where Romo might be now had Carter stayed clean.


Romo wasn't going anywhere, well, sorta... The Cowboys thought they had something special the minute they signed him. At least their offensive coordinator Sean Peyton did. Sean Peyton was very familiar with Tony Romo as they both were quarterbacks for Eastern Illinois.

It may be urban legend, but the way I heard it someone from his alma mater asked Payton to take a look at Tony Romo. Payton got familiar with him & "worked" with him while he was at Eastern Illinois. Payton got on with the Cowboys under Bill Parcels.

The way it was told to me, was the Payton wanted to bring Romo to Nawl'ns, but Parcel wouldn't allow it. Had Quincy Carter been able to stay clean & continued as the Cowboys starting QB, Romo would have gone to New Orleans with Sean Payton.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 11:59 AM
As to Mr. Daniel, your memory is a bit off. Yeah, he did end up with the Saints the next day, but he ended up there because nobody claimed him off of waivers, and for whatever reason he chose to .
Are you sure, my man?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/08/did-saints-tamper-with-chase-daniel/

76Texan
08-05-2013, 12:01 PM
Romo wasn't going anywhere, well, sorta... The Cowboys thought they had something special the minute they signed him. At least their offensive coordinator Sean Peyton did. Sean Peyton was very familiar with Tony Romo as they both were quarterbacks for Eastern Illinois.

It may be urban legend, but the way I heard it someone from his alma mater asked Payton to take a look at Tony Romo. Payton got familiar with him & "worked" with him while he was at Eastern Illinois. Payton got on with the Cowboys under Bill Parcels.

The way it was told to me, was the Payton wanted to bring Romo to Nawl'ns, but Parcel wouldn't allow it. Had Quincy Carter been able to stay clean & continued as the Cowboys starting QB, Romo would have gone to New Orleans with Sean Payton.

Basically, you're saying that Romo would have been cut by the Cowboys, right?

ChampionTexan
08-05-2013, 12:09 PM
Are you sure, my man?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/08/did-saints-tamper-with-chase-daniel/

That Daniels cleared waivers? Yeah - I am.

From the article you linked:
Per a league source, the notice regarding waiver claims arrived from Park Avenue at 4:45 p.m. ET on Sunday. “That is the first time any team could have known that Chase Daniel actually cleared waivers and was a free agent,” the source said.

That Daniel signed with the Saints as a PS player? Yeah - I am.

From the Sept. 7th New Orleans Times Picayune.
Not many quarterbacks can literally look up to the Saints' Drew Brees, who has emerged as one of the NFL's elite passers despite measuring 6 feet, 0 inches. But rookie Chase Daniel, who appears to be about an inch shorter, will do just that now that he's signed on as New Orleans' practice squad QB.

LINK (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2009/09/new_orleans_saints_new_practic.html)

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 12:10 PM
Everyone today on 610 (mark) is saying Keenum is doing well but all comes down to the preseason games.

Haters can hate but Case is making a run at 2nd. If he's working really hard and given a chance to play in the pre-season (something I feel he didn't last yr) and playing well, he will be the 2nd guy.

I really like Yates. He showed he can run and throw. But he had a terrible last year and some of those decisions last year were terrible. He's going into his 3rd year and Yates hasn't shown some significant improvement.

If anything, the battle between the two (TJvsCase) makes the team much better.


What do you think McGee's chances are of beating Keenum out for the #3 spot?


It's the same for Tj.

We are going to need one, or maybe two QBs to go into a game & fill in for Schaub. Hopefully it will only be for a Qtr, maybe a game at most. But If I'm Kubiak, I'm thinking I will need my back up QB this year. Tj gets the nod, because of his "extensive" experience playing in real games, including play-offs, & he's already got experience leading the offense, from a leadership pov.

Nothing against Case, but he's going to have to wait behind Tj, just like Romo had to wait behind Testeverde. Just like Kaepernick had to sit behind Smith & wait for an opportunity.

Matt's the starter, he's not going to lose his job unless someone comes in & outperforms him on game day. Yates is the back up, he's not going to lose his job this year, unless someone outperforms him on game day.

Now, if Keenum puts on a good show through camp & the team gets comfortable with him, there's a good chance we'll let Tj go at the end of the year, give Keenum another year to get an opportunity, & bring in another prospect.

It's just highly unlikely that an undrafted QB is going to unseat Yates.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 12:13 PM
Basically, you're saying that Romo would have been cut by the Cowboys, right?

Or traded to the Saints.

Rey
08-05-2013, 12:17 PM
Romo took over for Bledsoe. What does Quincy Carter have to do with that?

76Texan
08-05-2013, 12:19 PM
That Daniels cleared waivers? Yeah - I am.

From the article you linked:


That Daniel signed with the Saints as a PS player? Yeah - I am.

From the Sept. 7th New Orleans Times Picayune.

LINK (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2009/09/new_orleans_saints_new_practic.html)

CT, I read it as the Saints worked out a deal with Chase Daniel before he actually cleared waiver.

It is quite possible that his agent already informed other team that he preferred the Saints, so they didn't bother to create an unwanted situation.
As I understand it, the Redskins also wanted to resign him to the PS.
But after Daniel chose to go with the Saints, he basically severed the tie to them.
This is a risk that a team takes.

For example, the Texans cut KW.
He went on to sign with another team for the vet minimum.

What I'm saying is that there is a risk, no matter how slight it is, when you cut a guy.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 12:22 PM
Romo took over for Bledsoe. What does Quincy Carter have to do with that?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincy_Carter

ChampionTexan
08-05-2013, 12:45 PM
CT, I read it as the Saints worked out a deal with Chase Daniel before he actually cleared waiver.

It is quite possible that his agent already informed other team that he preferred the Saints, so they didn't bother to create an unwanted situation.
As I understand it, the Redskins also wanted to resign him to the PS.
But after Daniel chose to go with the Saints, he basically severed the tie to them.
This is a risk that a team takes.

For example, the Texans cut KW.
He went on to sign with another team for the vet minimum.

What I'm saying is that there is a risk, no matter how slight it is, when you cut a guy.
And all I said was he cleared waivers and signed on the Saints PS. Both those things are true, so I'm not sure what you're challenging about that.

Yeah, of course there's a risk, but managing that risk is what it's all about. If the Texans decide they want to go the PS route with Case again this year, it's up to them to judge whether he'll make it through waivers, and if they decide he likely will, it's up to them to decide if there's a realistic risk of Case choosing another team's PS. It's also up to them to determine the likelihood they're wrong, and if they're willing to live with that level of risk.

The same argument was on these boards last off-season (In May no less), with several folks (I honestly don't know if you were one of them) swearing that Case would never clear waivers if the Texans attempted to put him on the PS. And others (me very definitely included) saying it was ridiculous to think that another NFL team was going to use a 53 man roster spot on a player under the circumstances that would be present. Now we don't know what the Texans are going to do with Case this season, but what happened with him last season is a matter of record.

Texan_Bill
08-05-2013, 12:47 PM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincy_Carter

Huh? :mcnugget:

Again, what do Romo and Carter have to do with one another?

legacy_gt
08-05-2013, 12:54 PM
What do you think McGee's chances are of beating Keenum out for the #3 spot?


It's the same for Tj.

We are going to need one, or maybe two QBs to go into a game & fill in for Schaub. Hopefully it will only be for a Qtr, maybe a game at most. But If I'm Kubiak, I'm thinking I will need my back up QB this year. Tj gets the nod, because of his "extensive" experience playing in real games, including play-offs, & he's already got experience leading the offense, from a leadership pov.

Nothing against Case, but he's going to have to wait behind Tj, just like Romo had to wait behind Testeverde. Just like Kaepernick had to sit behind Smith & wait for an opportunity.

Matt's the starter, he's not going to lose his job unless someone comes in & outperforms him on game day. Yates is the back up, he's not going to lose his job this year, unless someone outperforms him on game day.

Now, if Keenum puts on a good show through camp & the team gets comfortable with him, there's a good chance we'll let Tj go at the end of the year, give Keenum another year to get an opportunity, & bring in another prospect.

It's just highly unlikely that an undrafted QB is going to unseat Yates.

Yates will definitely eventually go if Keenum improves and he doesn't get better. I can agree that Case will need to wait even if he is a 3rd stringer. If Yates can do somewhat on par to the results of Case, Yates will be the 2nd QB. Excited to see the dual in the pre-season.

Porky
08-05-2013, 12:55 PM
I'm a Case Keenum fan - in college. It's debatable how well that transfers to the pro game. There was a reason (multiple ones) that Case was undrafted.

As pointed out, that doesn't rule out the fact that he can overcome his somewhat short stature, lack of pro-nfl offense experience, a mediocre arm, etc. Others have done it. Case imo, actually in the long run is the better prospect than Yates IMHO.

To me Yates is what he is - a pretty decent career back-up. I don't look at Yates and see future starter. I just don't. But Case has an it factor, leadership skills, and that will to win that make me think that he at least has a shot from going to UDFA to future starter. Likely? I don't know. Let's see what he has this preseason.

But, that's down the road at least a couple of years in any event. He needs much more seasoning. This year it's about getting on a roster. And I think he has an excellent chance of making the 53 man squad and being that #3 QB. Is there a chance he beats out Yates? Sure, but it's very, very unlikely imo. Next year - could be different. Let's keep this year realistic, and we'll follow his career and see what happens.

I kind of feel sorry for Mcgee. Outside of you know what (knock on wood) I just see virtually no chance that McGee makes it over Case or Yates. Kubes is going to give the nod to the young guy that has some real upside over a Yates knockoff who is likely to be a career backup and Yates has been here and he experience in the playoffs. McGee should basically be trying to showcase any playing time to see if he can latch on elsewhere.

Rey
08-05-2013, 01:04 PM
Huh? :mcnugget:

Again, what do Romo and Carter have to do with one another?

I guess they're saying that if Carter had played well Romo wouldn't be there....

But that is just a funny way to look at things since the Cowboys had 3 starters in between the time that Carter left and Romo became a starter.

Might as well say that if Chad Hutchinson had played well enough Romo wouldn't be there....

Cowboys traded a third round pick to us for Drew Henson. Romo was not really viewed as an heir apparent and only moved up the depth chart when Henson bombed out.

Just a strange way to look at it to me.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 01:08 PM
Huh? :mcnugget:

Again, what do Romo and Carter have to do with one another?

If Carter had stayed cleaned, the Cowboys would have kept him.
They signed Testaverde and traded a third for Henson.
That means Romo was likely the odd man out.
The possibility of him getting cut was up there.
And if he was cut, he might make another team PS or he might decide to go to work in a grocery store, I don't know.

If he ended up with Sean Payton and the Saints as TK suggested, he would still be a backup QB to Brees, most likely.
In that case, he wouldn't have been with the Cowboys the next year to take over Bledsoe's job.

Rey
08-05-2013, 01:11 PM
If Carter had stayed cleaned, the Cowboys would have kept him.
They signed Testaverde and traded a third for Henson.
That means Romo was likely the odd man out.

Ummmm...

Maybe they don't trade a third rounder for a QB if their starter was still there?


Maybe they don't go out and sign Testaverde either?

Maybe Romo ends up starting sooner if Carter had lasted a bit longer.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 01:14 PM
I guess they're saying that if Carter had played well Romo wouldn't be there....

But that is just a funny way to look at things since the Cowboys had 3 starters in between the time that Carter left and Romo became a starter.

Might as well say that if Chad Hutchinson had played well enough Romo wouldn't be there....

Cowboys traded a third round pick to us for Drew Henson. Romo was not really viewed as an heir apparent and only moved up the depth chart when Henson bombed out.

Just a strange way to look at it to me.
Rey, read the above post #155 and this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Dallas_Cowboys_season

Signing Testaverde and trading a third round draft pick for Henson while Carter is still the starter couldn't have been a shot in the arm for Romo.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 01:25 PM
Ummmm...

Maybe they don't trade a third rounder for a QB if their starter was still there?


Maybe they don't go out and sign Testaverde either?

Maybe Romo ends up starting sooner if Carter had lasted a bit longer.

Rey, read the above post #155 and this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Dallas_Cowboys_season

Signing Testaverde and trading a third round draft pick for Henson while Carter is still the starter couldn't have been a shot in the arm for Romo.
Rey, the Cowboys took Henson first, then they signed Testaverde in June:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1022

They cut Carter in August; he eventually went into rehab.
If Carter didn't have an addiction, he would have been kept, don't you think?

And if you're Bill Parcels, would you keep 3 young QBs on the roster instead of bringing in Testaverde who had played for Parcels.
Who is more likely to be the odd man out?

Rey
08-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Rey, read the above post #155 and this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Dallas_Cowboys_season

Signing Testaverde and trading a third round draft pick for Henson while Carter is still the starter couldn't have been a shot in the arm for Romo.

????

Do you realize that Carter was released the first week of camp?

I don't think the Cowboys cut their starting QB in the first week of camp just on the spur of the moment.

And I'm supposed to believe that the Cowboys traded a third round pick for a 2nd or 3rd string QB in Henson?

Maybe there is a reason they went out and signed Testaverde and traded for Henson.

Yeah, if Carter would have stayed there Romo likely would have been cut. But I don't believe Carter staying there was ever in the plans. Therefore I don't believe Romo was ever going to be cut because of QC.

Rey
08-05-2013, 01:31 PM
Rey, the Cowboys took Henson first, then they signed Testaverde in June:


They cut Carter in August; he eventually went into rehab.
If Carter didn't have an addiction, he would have been kept, don't you think?



I think there is a reason they traded a 3rd rounder for a young QB and then signed a steady vet. Because they were moving towards releasing Carter.

His drug problem didn't just magically pop up in August. They already knew about it.

76Texan
08-05-2013, 01:35 PM
And all I said was he cleared waivers and signed on the Saints PS. Both those things are true, so I'm not sure what you're challenging about that.

.
CT, I'm not challenging anything.
I'm just saying that it certainly looks like the Saints had interest in Daniel before they knew that he would clear waiver.

Also, the Redskins indicated that they wanted to bring him back onto their PS.

That, along with the Matt Moore situation, did show that when a team hopes to sneak a player onto their PS, there's a risk.
All I was saying.

With a guy like Keenum in his second year, who has now learn the rope of the WCO, besides being familiar with a multitude of offenses from his college days - from the pistol to the spread, the option read, etc. - he can be more attractive as a free agent. There's more risk in trying to stash him onto the PS.

badboy
08-05-2013, 01:37 PM
"Dear Lord, please keep Matt Schaub healthy and allow him to take every offensive snap so we can have this fan excitement this time next year for our #2 QB."

76Texan
08-05-2013, 01:43 PM
I think there is a reason they traded a 3rd rounder for a young QB and then signed a steady vet. Because they were moving towards releasing Carter.

His drug problem didn't just magically pop up in August. They already knew about it.

Yes, but they hoped he doesn't fail a drug test.

Look, the Jets picked him up; that has got to be out of sheer hope that he can kick the habit.

At any rate, drafting Henson in the third can't be good news for an UDFA like Romo.
My main point is that Romo was an UDFA who at one point seemed not to be in the plan, but he persevered and made it in the NFL.

Rey
08-05-2013, 01:47 PM
Yes, but they hoped he doesn't fail a drug test.

Look, the Jets picked him up; that has got to be out of sheer hope that he can kick the habit.

At any rate, drafting Henson in the third can't be good news for an UDFA like Romo.
My main point is that Romo was an UDFA who at one point seemed not to be in the plan, but he persevered and made it in the NFL.

I agree with your point. Well, there's no disputing that....but what I'm saying is that I agree that keenum can have a similar type of path...

b0ng
08-05-2013, 01:55 PM
To be fair, there was a room full of Texan fans booing Watt when he was selected. Most are now wearing 99 jerseys.

I was there for the draft party at Reliant in 2011, and while this is somewhat true that was more of a case of a few loud voices not an entire group consensus.

That writer is still garbage, and that piece that is presented in the link has no real analysis behind it, it's mostly the author drawing conclusions off of quotes. There's no actual comparison of Yates's current game to Keenum's current game, there's a whole two actual football tidbits in the article (That Keenum's deepball has improved a lot, and his command of the huddle has improved), and the rest is hyperbole and assumptions.

This article is piss, just like the writer.

Lucky
08-05-2013, 02:57 PM
I was there for the draft party at Reliant in 2011, and while this is somewhat true that was more of a case of a few loud voices not an entire group consensus.
Well, JJ remembers the boos (http://www.chron.com/sports/article/The-life-and-times-of-J-J-Watt-3945755.php).

"How much love the city is showing me after booing me last year is awesome," Watt said. "It's so cool."

"A lot of them wanted Nick Fairley, a lot of them wanted Prince Amukamara," Watt said. "There were a lot of people saying I was just a big white guy, that the team was taking a high character guy, not the best football player."

Watt has a computer file of a video that shows fans at Reliant Stadium booing as the Texans selected him on draft day. The video also has interviews with some of those fans. One said he was canceling his season tickets. Another said it was a wasted pick.

But the last fan interviewed felt differently. That person said he loved the pick and that Watt would lead the Texans to a Super Bowl.

"If my dream comes true and we win a Super Bowl here, I want to find that guy," Watt said. "And I want to shake that guy's hand (and) say, 'Thank you for believing in me, and you were right.' "

I have never read an article by this guy prior to the Keenum piece. That I'm aware of. This reads as a typical preseason fluff piece that could be found on any web site, even chron.com. As I said, I don't see the outrageousness in this piece (by itself) that would bring up such venom.

It's the 1st week of preseason, and I don't know if the coaches know who the starters are at RT or MO LB, much less who the backup QB is. Maybe in 4 weeks, the piece will look like hot garbage or brilliant insight. Who really knows?

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 05:02 PM
If he ended up with Sean Payton and the Saints as TK suggested, he would still be a backup QB to Brees, most likely.


I don't think the Saints were going to be looking for a starting caliber guy like Brees. They'd have been looking for a veteran back up to Tony.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Ummmm...


Maybe Romo ends up starting sooner if Carter had lasted a bit longer.

I'm going to admit I didn't look at the chronology.... he said Carter, I went with it.

Bledsoe was brought in to be a starter in Romo's second year. Obviously the feelings on Romo weren't so high at that time. I like to think there was another QB there on the roster between Bledsoe & Romo. Romo didn't "win" the back-up job until 2006. (Just checked, it was Drew Henson).

OT; Bledsoe is the guy I think about when I think about QBs similar to Schaub. Very good in the pocket. Probably good enough to get you to a Super Bowl... Probably never win one.

However, we can change him out with a more mobile guy, like Romo & thread water for a decade.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 05:10 PM
????

But I don't believe Carter staying there was ever in the plans. Therefore I don't believe Romo was ever going to be cut because of QC.

Jerrah loved him some Quincy Carter. The drug thing was probably the only way Parcells could get rid of him.

Rey
08-05-2013, 05:14 PM
OT; Bledsoe is the guy I think about when I think about QBs similar to Schaub. Very good in the pocket. Probably good enough to get you to a Super Bowl... Probably never win one.

However, we can change him out with a more mobile guy, like Romo & thread water for a decade.

Whoa...Now you've gone and switched directions (or so it seems)...

Is this your argument against Case/Yates?

noxiousdog
08-05-2013, 05:21 PM
Well, JJ remembers the boos (http://www.chron.com/sports/article/The-life-and-times-of-J-J-Watt-3945755.php).

I'm a big JJ Watt fan, but he is one of those guys that wants a chip on his shoulder. If it was 1 fan out 60,000, he'd carry that around with him.

He's been on this crusade against The Doubters(tm) this off season, and he's arguing against people that think it's reasonable not to expect him to have the all time greatest season by a defensive lineman again.

That's kind of making up an enemy, but if it makes him play better and work harder, by all means, you can put me at the front of the hater line.

thunderkyss
08-05-2013, 05:56 PM
Whoa...Now you've gone and switched directions (or so it seems)...

Is this your argument against Case/Yates?

OT= off topic

I honestly don't think there is a competition. If there was going to be someone competing with Yates, it would be someone with playing time.

I don't believe Kubiak Kubiak sees Yates as anything but a back-up, & don't believe he's going to keep him on the roster past this year (this is his third year). If Keenum impresses Kubiak, Keenum will be our back up next year & we'll find another guy to develop.

Keenum is fighting with McGee for the third spot & a spot on next years roster.

GuerillaBlack
08-05-2013, 06:11 PM
Jerrah loved him some Quincy Carter. The drug thing was probably the only way Parcells could get rid of him.

He wanted Carter to be Vick so so bad.

CloakNNNdagger
08-05-2013, 09:57 PM
McClain today pointed out Keenum has not had even one pass batted down during TC. Although not even close to the 6'4" and 6'5" height of Yates and Schaub, he attributed this to the invaluable talent of Keenum having total control of navigating the passing lanes.

eriadoc
08-05-2013, 09:59 PM
McClain today pointed out Keenum has not had even one pass batted down during TC. Although not even close to the 6'4" and 6'5" height of Yates and Schaub, he attributed this to the invaluable talent of Keenum having total control of navigating the passing lanes.

We used to have a QB here that was plenty tall, but had quite a few batted passes.

76Texan
08-06-2013, 09:16 AM
Keenum has not had even one pass batted down during TC. Although not even close to the 6'4" and 6'5" height of Yates and Schaub, he attributed this to the invaluable talent of Keenum having total control of navigating the passing lanes.

This is one of the things I mentioned when I evaluate his play in college.

The guy is straight smart. It's really remarkable how few of his passes were batted down, and he put up a ton of them.

I need to see him against JJ Watt though.

legacy_gt
08-06-2013, 10:13 AM
McClain today pointed out Keenum has not had even one pass batted down during TC. Although not even close to the 6'4" and 6'5" height of Yates and Schaub, he attributed this to the invaluable talent of Keenum having total control of navigating the passing lanes.

keenum can model qb's like drew brees. keenum is actually a little bigger and taller. there's a lot of tangibles being a qb besides height and size (IQ, vision, reading defenses, speed, etc.)

pirbroke
08-10-2013, 07:04 PM
Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.

Well I think I will say Case grabs early edge, LOL. I'm sorry texans-chick, I love all your articles but I can't forget your statements from before. If Case rocks the rest of preseason the competition is on IMHO. If case has not had much 2nd team practice reps then they need to give it to him.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 07:39 PM
Well I think I will say Case grabs early edge, LOL. I'm sorry texans-chick, I love all your articles but I can't forget your statements from before. If Case rocks the rest of preseason the competition is on IMHO. If case has not had much 2nd team practice reps then they need to give it to him.

This is really getting funny.

There is no competition.

infantrycak
08-10-2013, 07:56 PM
This is really getting funny.

There is no competition.

What is your source for this assertion?

SAMURAITEXAN
08-10-2013, 08:12 PM
I think the back up QB situation will be more clear if and when Kubiak let Case play before TJ against Miami. I really like to see how Case hooks up with Hopkins.

cstyle42
08-10-2013, 08:16 PM
I think the back up QB situation will be more clear if and when Kubiak let Case play before TJ against Miami. I really like to see how Case hooks up with Hopkins.

Keenum throws the football more like Boyd did at clemson so I see it being great chemistry wise.

eriadoc
08-10-2013, 08:56 PM
What is your source for this assertion?

Same source as most of the feces he's produced lately.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 09:11 PM
Same source as most of the feces he's produced lately.

I bet you money Yates will open the season as our #2 QB behind Schaub (baring injury).


& it doesn't even matter how well Keenum does, because there is no competition. Keenum cannot compete with what Yates has... real NFL experience. Real NFL play-off experience.


It's coachspeak & I'm surprised so many fell for it.

Texn4life
08-10-2013, 09:32 PM
I don't think I've weighed in on this subject, but I'll admit I wasn't a fan of Yates at all while he was at Carolina. He showed some things when he started for us and I'll always appreciate his contribution to our playoff run. With that being said he tends to miss on a lot of easy throws especially early in games. Maybe its something you can chalk it up to adrenaline, but I don't think he's our default #2 QB no matter what. He played well last night after being off early on though.

I also have to put the disclaimer out there as well that I wasn't sold Keenum could be a QB in this league. He showed me some things last night that may cause me to question that somewhat. He's always been accurate, but his athletic ability on our boots really jumped out to me. He's a much better athlete than the other 2 so it adds a different dimension. I need to see more, but if I'm Kubiak I see no need to just annoint TJ the backup right now.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 09:45 PM
I need to see more, but if I'm Kubiak I see no need to just annoint TJ the backup right now.

Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.

Texn4life
08-10-2013, 09:54 PM
Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.

It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to give the job to someone that you claim won the job two years ago. In this league, unless you're a proven starter, you should have to earn your spot every year. If he feels like Keenum is the better player and gives us the best chance to win then he should make the tough decision and go with him.

I'd also like to point out that TJ didn't exactly light things up when he played for us. He did a great job of managing the game, but there wasn't one point where I could say I was completely comfortable with him. Two years later I still can't say that. Your philosophy that guys shouldn't have to show they're better than the next guy behind them every year would get your fired in a heartbeat as a coach. I hope Texans coaches present and future never have that mentality.

Speedy
08-10-2013, 10:11 PM
Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.

So I guess Martin and Jean should be ahead of Hopkins since they both have playoff experience and all.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 10:11 PM
I'd also like to point out that TJ didn't exactly light things up when he played for us. He did a great job of managing the game, but there wasn't one point where I could say I was completely comfortable with him. Two years later I still can't say that. Your philosophy that guys shouldn't have to show they're better than the next guy behind them every year would get your fired in a heartbeat as a coach. I hope Texans coaches present and future never have that mentality.

It's not my philosophy. It's what it is. If Keenum was truly competing with Tj, they never would have brought McGee in (McGee also has NFL experience). Keenum playing as well as he is, is earning his spot on the roster. It wasn't just given to him.

I'd have an easier time believing Tj was competing for his job, if McGee was in the third spot..... but he's not.

& yes, there are still a lot of questions concerning Tj. He's never been given the full play-book in a game. If Matt gets hurt in the regular season, Yates is going to go in & prove to us he deserves to be starting. If he can't successfully answer the remaining questions, Keenum will go in. At that point, Kubiak won't have a choice. He'll have to admit that he's wrong & he'll answer the questions about 3 years back to back with green QBs.

But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 10:15 PM
So I guess Martin and Jean should be ahead of Hopkins since they both have playoff experience and all.

If those two ever showed to be competent with the play book I'm sure they would be. But neither of them at any time earned the #2 WR spot.

Had Posey not tore his Achilles, I bet he'd be ahead of Hopkins, if we even drafted a WR in the first round.

Rey
08-10-2013, 10:17 PM
But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.

That sentence seems to indicate that there actually is a competition after all.

If there is no competition it really shouldn't matter how well anyone plays..


I think you are confusing no competition with Yates having a large lead in the competition because of his experience.

infantrycak
08-10-2013, 10:19 PM
& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.

He won jack two years ago. He was buried on the depth chart and everyone in front got hurt.

His playoff experience you find so compelling consisted of one decent game and one miserable one.

Texn4life
08-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Its one game in the preseason TK. I will agree with you that TJ probably has to have a poor showing the rest of the games here on out to probably lose his spot, but I stress the word probably. Kubiak has done his evaluations throughout the offseason and sees Keenum as his pet prodigy right now. If he feels like he's playing the best I can totally see him making him the backup. I don't even know why you brought up McGee. He was brought in as a camp arm and insurance. Nothing more, nothing less.

If Kubiak is making Yates the backup because he had 1 really good drive 2 years ago then he's failing this team as a coach. I have my doubts about him, but I honestly don't think he shares your same thoughts and opinions.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 10:26 PM
It's not my philosophy. It's what it is. If Keenum was truly competing with Tj, they never would have brought McGee in (McGee also has NFL experience). Keenum playing as well as he is, is earning his spot on the roster. It wasn't just given to him.

I'd have an easier time believing Tj was competing for his job, if McGee was in the third spot..... but he's not.

& yes, there are still a lot of questions concerning Tj. He's never been given the full play-book in a game. If Matt gets hurt in the regular season, Yates is going to go in & prove to us he deserves to be starting. If he can't successfully answer the remaining questions, Keenum will go in. At that point, Kubiak won't have a choice. He'll have to admit that he's wrong & he'll answer the questions about 3 years back to back with green QBs.

But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.

In preseason, I seriously doubt that the classic QB ratings and completion percentages will trump form, poise and ability to respond to certain situations to make things happen.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 10:37 PM
I think you are confusing no competition with Yates having a large lead in the competition because of his experience.

You're right, maybe that would be a better way of putting it.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 10:40 PM
In preseason, I seriously doubt that the classic QB ratings and completion percentages will trump form, poise and ability to respond to certain situations to make things happen.

It's not like Yates has poor form, no poise, & no ability to respond & make things happen.

ObsiWan
08-10-2013, 10:46 PM
Kubiak is thinking Super Bowl. It would be irresponsible for Kubiak to allow Case to feel his way around the NFL when we've got a very good chance of winning it all with the team he assembled. Case hasn't played in a real game. It's different. He may very well be prepared for it, but unless Tj does something to make you believe he hurts your teams chances (makes dumb mistakes, doesn't fully grasp the play book, doesn't "trust" the system) you don't replace him with someone who has never played in an NFL game.

Then the play offs are different. Kubiak cannot go into the play offs again with a QB getting his first taste of the NFL play offs. If he has to, he has to, but he should not "decide" to.

Kubiak may very well have to, which is why he will try to get Keenum as prepared as possible, we'll probably see more of Keenum than we will of Yates through the rest of the preseason for that reason alone. If we're up by 20 with 5 minutes or so left in a real game, he'll probably throw Keenum in the game.

& Tj isn't being annointed, he won the job two years ago, he was a "team player" last year, & he hasn't done anything to lose the job.

I follow your logic but I'm not sure its the lead pipe cinch you're thinking it is.
I'll say this: Yates will be the #2 when the season begins
...but he won't have the long leash he had last year when Keenum was learning what the NFL was all about and inserting Keenum was a pretty big risk. If Yates has to go in for Schaub and stinks it up - or even fails to move the team after 2-3 series - I think Kubiak will feel better about pulling Yates and inserting Keenum to (a) possibly/hopefully give the team a spark and/or (b) let Yates know his backup spot isn't totally secure.

Keenum's play has definitely made things more interesting.
:fans:

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 10:52 PM
If Kubiak is making Yates the backup because he had 1 really good drive 2 years ago then he's failing this team as a coach. I have my doubts about him, but I honestly don't think he shares your same thoughts and opinions.

It was more than one good drive. & it's not my "opinion" it's odds. No one knows how Keenum is going to play in the NFL. We've got good ideas, we can make educated guesses, but it's less than 50/50 that Keenum will be able to continue to have the success he had in college or the preseason. Maybe less if you consider all the guys in similar situations that couldn't (not that there are many NCAAF passing leaders).

& the progress Kubiak is able to see in Keenum in practice & the film room, he may be seeing similar progress in Yates for all we know.

Texn4life
08-10-2013, 11:00 PM
It was more than one good drive. & it's not my "opinion" it's odds. No one knows how Keenum is going to play in the NFL. We've got good ideas, we can make educated guesses, but it's less than 50/50 that Keenum will be able to continue to have the success he had in college or the preseason. Maybe less if you consider all the guys in similar situations that couldn't (not that there are many NCAAF passing leaders).

& the progress Kubiak is able to see in Keenum in practice & the film room, he may be seeing similar progress in Yates for all we know.

I said in my inital post here I don't know who the best QB is right now, but to me Yates wasn't all that great in that stretch of games he started and wasn't great last preseason. I want the best QB TODAY on the field. Vince Young is 31-19 as a starter, but it took him forever to get another shot. If TJ shows that he's better then fine, but his play from 2 years ago shouldn't win him the job THIS year. Just my opinion.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 11:00 PM
I follow your logic but I'm not sure its the lead pipe cinch you're thinking it is.
I'll say this: Yates will be the #2 when the season begins
...but he won't have the long leash he had last year when Keenum was learning what the NFL was all about and inserting Keenum was a pretty big risk. If Yates has to go in for Schaub and stinks it up - or even fails to move the team after 2-3 series - I think Kubiak will feel better about pulling Yates and inserting Keenum to (a) possibly/hopefully give the team a spark and/or (b) let Yates know his backup spot isn't totally secure.

Keenum's play has definitely made things more interesting.
:fans:

That's exactly the way I see it. Well, I think he'll have a longer leash. But Yates will be pulled if Kubiak thinks he's not getting the job done. Keenum will earn the #2 spot on the field, same as Yates did (otherwise we'd have brought in a #2 last offseason).

Even if Yates does not stink it up, if we manage to get a good lead, instead of going into turtle mode, he'll put Keenum in to help him get ready in case we need him for the post season.

badboy
08-10-2013, 11:10 PM
I thought every player competed for every job. If all things are relatively equal, I can see a vet getting the lead. IMO, if Yates and Keenum continue to play as each did against Vikes, Keenum will be the better player. I don't care whom is # 2 as long as he is the better. If Schaub plays as he did 2012, neither back up will get much field time; at least until the end of the season.

eriadoc
08-10-2013, 11:12 PM
I thought every player competed for every job.

Not in TK's world. Coaches in TK's world do not support competition. They support caste systems.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 11:16 PM
I said in my inital post here I don't know who the best QB is right now, but to me Yates wasn't all that great in that stretch of games he started and wasn't great last preseason. I want the best QB TODAY on the field. Vince Young is 31-19 as a starter, but it took him forever to get another shot. If TJ shows that he's better then fine, but his play from 2 years ago shouldn't win him the job THIS year. Just my opinion.

It would be great if what we thought was taken into account by Kubiak.... but it's not. If Kubiak was as unimpressed as you were in Tj's performance, he'd have brought someone in to compete with Tj last season.

Since he did not, I assume he saw enough in Tj to think he could be at the very least a decent insurance policy in the event Schaub doesn't play 16 games in 2012. The goal then was Super Bowl, same as it is today.

I mentioned in another thread, completions, TDs, ratings, etc.... or lack thereof are not as important as knowing the playbook, running the offense as designed, getting the ball out on time, & taking care of the football. So what we saw in the preseason last season most likely wasn't what Kubiak saw in the preseason last year.

Before anyone says I'm contradicting myself, I said "not as important" not "not important" If he's got the playbook, runs the offense, gets the ball out on time, & takes care of the football (the fundamentals) + the numbers, that's an A+ grade. If he's got the numbers, but not the fundamentals (as defined earlier) that's a C grade. If he's got the fundamentals but not the numbers, that's a B+ or something similar.

Kubiak can plan around the fundamentals. He can give his team a reasonable chance to win if he can reasonably expect a certain level of "production." We saw it with Tj the rookie, we saw it with the 2012 OL & WRs. It's much more difficult to squeeze out wins if he's got a maverick QB (not that Case is maverick) or wild variations of performance from key components of his offense. We saw that with Tj the rookie as well. We saw it with Jacoby.

DocBar
08-10-2013, 11:17 PM
It's not my philosophy. It's what it is. If Keenum was truly competing with Tj, they never would have brought McGee in (McGee also has NFL experience). Keenum playing as well as he is, is earning his spot on the roster. It wasn't just given to him.

I'd have an easier time believing Tj was competing for his job, if McGee was in the third spot..... but he's not.

& yes, there are still a lot of questions concerning Tj. He's never been given the full play-book in a game. If Matt gets hurt in the regular season, Yates is going to go in & prove to us he deserves to be starting. If he can't successfully answer the remaining questions, Keenum will go in. At that point, Kubiak won't have a choice. He'll have to admit that he's wrong & he'll answer the questions about 3 years back to back with green QBs.

But for Keenum to give us our best chance of winning, Tj has to stop putting up 90+ QB ratings, 60% completions, 7.2 ypc, & start turning the ball over.I'll take Keenum's 70% completion ratio, accurate passing and making plays with his feet for 6.9 YPA over Yates' performance. A 62% completion ratio is only great of you're the QB in Buffalo, Jacksonville or Arizona.
Hell, I'm dang near ready to bet my $70K truck that Keenum will succeed Schaub rather than TJ or some future draft pick. I'm also willing to say it will happen by 2015. 2014 might actually be the year due to cap concerns.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 11:31 PM
Not in TK's world. Coaches in TK's world do not support competition. They support caste systems.

Who's competing with Ben Tate?

Who's competing with Ben Jones for the back up center spot?

Who's competing with Brice McCain for the nickel corner?

Who's competing with Garrett Graham as the #2 TE?

Coaches blow smoke. Some make it seem obvious, some catch you off guard.

Some people fall for it, some don't.

paycheck71
08-10-2013, 11:37 PM
Who's competing with Ben Tate?

Who's competing with Ben Jones for the back up center spot?

Who's competing with Brice McCain for the nickel corner?

Who's competing with Garrett Graham as the #2 TE?

Coaches blow smoke. Some make it seem obvious, some catch you off guard.

Some people fall for it, some don't.

I think a lot of Kubiak talk about the QB's is his way of motivating both TJ and Case.

I basically liked how both of them played last night. TJ was a little slow to start, but in the end did well. Case was in control the whole way against 3s and 4s. Let's see him get a shot with 1s, 2s, and 3s.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 11:38 PM
I'll take Keenum's 70% completion ratio, accurate passing and making plays with his feet for 6.9 YPA over Yates' performance. A 62% completion ratio is only great of you're the QB in Buffalo, Jacksonville or Arizona.


I would too, if they both had 100% of the playbook. Only Kubiak knows what he feels comfortable asking them to do. He'll never say it, but Yates will be our #2 QB going into San Diego because Kubiak trusts him with more than he trusts Keenum.


Hell, I'm dang near ready to bet my $70K truck that Keenum will succeed Schaub rather than TJ or some future draft pick. I'm also willing to say it will happen by 2015. 2014 might actually be the year due to cap concerns.

& I wouldn't touch that bet with a 10 foot pole. I think Kubiak thinks we can win with Yates... I don't think he believes Tj is the future. I think Kubiak believes Keenum may be the future, but that doesn't make him the back up for 2012.

thunderkyss
08-10-2013, 11:39 PM
I think a lot of Kubiak talk about the QB's is his way of motivating both TJ and Case.

I basically liked how both of them played last night. TJ was a little slow to start, but in the end did well. Case was in control the whole way against 3s and 4s. Let's see him get a shot with 1s, 2s, and 3s.

He needs Case to understand & prepare as if he will be the #2 QB at some point in the season.

Odds are that he will be.

DocBar
08-10-2013, 11:43 PM
I would too, if they both had 100% of the playbook. Only Kubiak knows what he feels comfortable asking them to do. He'll never say it, but Yates will be our #2 QB going into San Diego because Kubiak trusts him with more than he trusts Keenum.



& I wouldn't touch that bet with a 10 foot pole. I think Kubiak thinks we can win with Yates... I don't think he believes Tj is the future. I think Kubiak believes Keenum may be the future, but that doesn't make him the back up for 2012. You need to change your username to Crawfish. LMAO!!!!

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 12:08 AM
You need to change your username to Crawfish. LMAO!!!!

How am I crawfishing? Your bet is for 2014, or 2015.....

I'm saying Tj will be the back-up in 2012 regardless how well Keenum does this preseason.

ObsiWan
08-11-2013, 12:08 AM
I think a lot of Kubiak talk about the QB's is his way of motivating both TJ and Case.

I basically liked how both of them played last night. TJ was a little slow to start, but in the end did well. Case was in control the whole way against 3s and 4s. Let's see him get a shot with 1s, 2s, and 3s.

If this happens - if Kubiak actually sends Keenum in with the twos - then I'll start to buy into the thought that Kubiak is actually considering Keenum as his number two. I don't recall Kubiak doing something like that since we had both Sexy Rexy and Matty Hottub vying for the #2 spot. That's the last time I remember #2 being truly up for grabs.

DocBar
08-11-2013, 12:09 AM
How am I crawfishing? Your bet is for 2014, or 2015.....

I'm saying Tj will be the back-up in 2012 regardless how well Keenum does this preseason.um....it's 2013....can't really make a bhet about the past....just sayin....:lol:

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 12:12 AM
If this happens - if Kubiak actually sends Keenum in with the twos - then I'll start to buy into the thought that Kubiak is actually considering Keenum as his number two. I don't recall Kubiak doing something like that since we had both Sexy Rexy and Matty Hottub vying for the #2 spot. That's the last time I remember #2 being truly up for grabs.

I think he does it. He needs Keenum to be a true back up QB for 2013. If Matt gets hurt, he'll be the #2. If Yates don't get it done, Keenum will get his shot.

Keenum is on the fast track to get as ready as he possibly can without playing in an actual NFL game that counts. He will eventually take snaps with the 1s & 2s (however that's defined this year).

But Yates will be the back up come Sept 9th

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 12:13 AM
um....it's 2013....can't really make a bhet about the past....just sayin....:lol:

:foottap:

read my mind damnit!!!

DocBar
08-11-2013, 12:14 AM
:foottap:

read my mind damnit!!!I couldn't resist. I know what you meant.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 12:48 AM
You need to change your username to Crawfish. LMAO!!!!

Ok...... now I'm going to crawfish on ya.

Let's say Kubiak really believes Keenum is ahead of Tj, & makes Keenum the #2 to start the season. Then when we get an early lead, he can put Keenum in the game to get real game experience. He has 16 games to get him up to speed.

That could happen & that's a "good" argument against my no competition argument.

Another one, would be Colin Kaepenick. He had no real game experience, or very little, before he was made the #2 in San Fran & he got his team to the Super Bowl. If Schaub leads us to 5-1 or 7-1 type of season, I can see Keenum going in & taking a shot. If he fails, Kubiak can fall back on Yates without jeopardizing our Super Bowl quest too much.

So that could happen. If you think Kubiak is the roll the dice kind of guy.

If you think he's the conservative, run a draw on 3rd & 19 kind of guy, then you know there's no chance in Hades that Keenum will be our #2 Sept 9.

DocBar
08-11-2013, 01:33 AM
Ok...... now I'm going to crawfish on ya.

Let's say Kubiak really believes Keenum is ahead of Tj, & makes Keenum the #2 to start the season. Then when we get an early lead, he can put Keenum in the game to get real game experience. He has 16 games to get him up to speed.

That could happen & that's a "good" argument against my no competition argument.

Another one, would be Colin Kaepenick. He had no real game experience, or very little, before he was made the #2 in San Fran & he got his team to the Super Bowl. If Schaub leads us to 5-1 or 7-1 type of season, I can see Keenum going in & taking a shot. If he fails, Kubiak can fall back on Yates without jeopardizing our Super Bowl quest too much.

So that could happen. If you think Kubiak is the roll the dice kind of guy.

If you think he's the conservative, run a draw on 3rd & 19 kind of guy, then you know there's no chance in Hades that Keenum will be our #2 Sept 9.We're not talking about SF. Schaub is def better than A Smith.
I think Kubes believes in what he sees. If Keenum is better than Yates, Keenum will be the back up. See also Arian Foster for clarification. Kubes will play the better player, regardless of draft position,on offense.

drs23
08-11-2013, 01:38 AM
Need aspirin.

Have a headache.

:kitten:

Vance87
08-11-2013, 01:50 AM
Need aspirin.

Have a headache.

:kitten:

Too much crawfish.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 06:39 AM
We're not talking about SF. Schaub is def better than A Smith.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying if Schaub gets us to 5-1 or 7-1 or something like that, then gets hurt... he can throw Case in there for a couple of games & see if he's got "it"

If he doesn't & Schaub is still not ready, he can give Tj another shot.

I'm just saying Keenum is an unknown & if we build a lead early in the season Tj's experience is less of a factor. OR even without a lead, if Kubiak's plan is to get Case some reps in real games, Tj's experience is less of a factor.

VTexan
08-11-2013, 12:14 PM
just looking at last night, case looked worlds better than yates. his footwork was more crisp. his decision making more quick. his throws more solid. and he really didn't miss a throw except for our receivers dropping balls. even had back to back touchdown throws that our receivers dropped.

yates doesn't look like he has progressed since his rookie year. wasn't even very good last preseason.

but we'll have a better idea of who is more suitable for that no.2 job after the next three games.

Tailgate
08-11-2013, 01:15 PM
As a UH Alum, sorry Yates... Im pulling for Case. The dude shows an IT factor... But has yet to play on the level Yates has.

Definitely making preseason that much more bearable watching these two go at it.

DocBar
08-11-2013, 01:29 PM
As a UH Alum, sorry Yates... Im pulling for Case. The dude shows an IT factor... But has yet to play on the level Yates has.

Definitely making preseason that much more bearable watching these two go at it.Heck, he's only on his second season. I can't wait for next Saturday nite. I really hope Kubes lets Keenum take the 2nd team reps over Yates so we can get a better feel for his progress against better talent. :fans:

CloakNNNdagger
08-11-2013, 01:34 PM
Bottom line is that I believe that Yates' "experience" at this point in time is likely to be factor, but a very small factor. Based on the fact that this is a "What have you done for me lately" NFL, I feel that the #2 spot will in the end be determined by which of the two exemplifies himself over the other in preseason.......not by a limited and questionable set of performances (seemingly ages ago) that when examined as a total body of work have been far from impressive or truly memorable.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 03:12 PM
...that when examined as a total body of work have been far from impressive or truly memorable.

Kid wowed the crap out of me. Not Kaepernick wow.... but those were some good games & his play was memorable.

But if I were rooting for Case, I wouldn't undersell those performances. I'd rather Case beat out a guy with impressive appearances than a guy who embarrassed the team. Being that Kubiak didn't bring anyone in to compete with Yates, even though Matt's injury suggested he may never be the same. tells us a little about what he thought of those performances & Tj.

If Tj is JAG, it doesn't say much about Keenum if he becomes our #2... if Tj is worthy to start in this league, it would say a lot if Keenum can leap-frog him... maybe he is the heir apparent.




OT: do you think most Texans fans know Case is from UH?

amazing80
08-11-2013, 03:13 PM
i will agree that Yates started off slow, but after his 1st 2 series, he looked good. more accurate, more precise and quicker decisions. Lets see how they do the next 3 games. I still think Yates will be the guy.

Texecutioner
08-11-2013, 03:31 PM
I find it so amusing that people are still trying to tout Yates as anything other then some career backup.To think that so many in here have argued that he was starter material is freaking crazy and homerish. Especially people who have bashed Schaub relentlessly.

Keenum looked damn good the other night though. I never thought much of the guy when people talked him up, but really hadn't ever watched him a lot so I kept quiet about Keenum. But as far as him and Yates are concerned it's not even close. Yates is a never was, and Keenum has definitely got some potential that I want to see more of. I'm not sure how he could play in hostile situations with top players around the league in mid season, but he definitely showed me that he can put the ball in tight holes and has a quick release where he has the versatility to do a lot. He reminded me of Romo a lot and I've always loved Romo's skill set other then his poor ability to make decisions in the clutch consistently. I want to see more of Keenum at this point. He'll definitely take over the 2nd string position at some point. And when he does, I'd like to see him make a run at Schaub's job. Definitely need to see a lot more Keenum in stiffer challenges though. But as far as intangibles, Keenum looks pretty nice. I finally got a dose of what some of the Case Keenum folks are selling, and if this kind of play continues, I'll be on that bandwagon pretty soon here.

Hervoyel
08-11-2013, 03:32 PM
i will agree that Yates started off slow, but after his 1st 2 series, he looked good. more accurate, more precise and quicker decisions. Lets see how they do the next 3 games. I still think Yates will be the guy.


Yeah, I do too but I think we'll carry three and that fine. I think by the end of preseason Yates and Keenum will be statistically indistinguishable and the debate will come down entirely to the intangibles. Yates supporters will cite his greater experience and better measurables. Keenum's supporters will point to his progress and I suspect his slightly better ability to create on the run when things don't go as planned. That will be refuted by Yates more on-schedule though less glitzy in the long run style of play.

Keenum reminds me of Chase Daniels from a few years ago when we played New Orleans. I remember thinking I wish our backup QB was playing like that. The other night Keenum was.

Next year we'll be looking at a real legitimate fight between the two unless one gets to play a bunch this year. That could change everything but it's as likely (if not more likely) to mean that our season doesn't end as planned as it is that we see one "break out".

Frankly I hope Schaub plays 16 games +playoffs and that he's the guy who breaks out this year.

And no, I still don't like him all that much. He's the QB though so what are you gonna do other than support him?

Texecutioner
08-11-2013, 03:42 PM
Yeah, I do too but I think we'll carry three and that fine. I think by the end of preseason Yates and Keenum will be statistically indistinguishable and the debate will come down entirely to the intangibles. Yates supporters will cite his greater experience and better measurables. Keenum's supporters will point to his progress and I suspect his slightly better ability to create on the run when things don't go as planned. That will be refuted by Yates more on-schedule though less glitzy in the long run style of play.

Keenum reminds me of Chase Daniels from a few years ago when we played New Orleans. I remember thinking I wish our backup QB was playing like that. The other night Keenum was.

Next year we'll be looking at a real legitimate fight between the two unless one gets to play a bunch this year. That could change everything but it's as likely (if not more likely) to mean that our season doesn't end as planned as it is that we see one "break out".

Frankly I hope Schaub plays 16 games +playoffs and that he's the guy who breaks out this year.

And no, I still don't like him all that much. He's the QB though so what are you gonna do other than support him?

After you and so many other bashed Schaub so badly acting like it was impossible for him to ever take this team anywhere, I'm shocked that you would hope that he stays healthy. If you have no faith or confidence in him as far as the post season goes, then I just don't understand why you'd want to see him on the field long term this season. I really have no idea what Keenum can do in tough situations against starters. I definitely know what Yates can do, and I don't want to see a Jason Campbell type of starter for this team ever. Keenum has a wild card style of play that I like I lot though even for a small sized guy.

I totally agree with the Chase Daniels comparison as well. I thought the exact same thing while watching him the other night. I also liked Chase Daniels a lot coming out of college and from what I've seen as a back up with him. I knew that Chase would never really get a good shot though due to his height and size.

CloakNNNdagger
08-11-2013, 03:58 PM
It seems that there are those here that feel that Kubiak is not really implying that Case will play in the next game behind Schaub this time.....that Kubiak is just saying that both will have lots of reps. But read his Conference quote, and you can see that Kubiak is saying more.:

(on if there is a chance he will bring QB Case Keenum off the bench first before QB T.J. Yates in the next preseason game)“We’re going to talk about that this week. What I’m trying to do is get him and T.J. in the exact same situations as players with pretty much equal reps, so that’s something that may be a topic this week. They will continue to both play a great deal. It’s a very good battle going on and they both did a good job last night.”

No doubt we will all see what he meant in Miami.

Hervoyel
08-11-2013, 03:59 PM
I don't like Schaub but I recognize that he's not going anywhere and that he's Gary's guy until he can't go. I think at this point in time that translates into "Our single best chance of reaching the Super Bowl". I mean, sure in a scenario where Schaub goes down again I'd ideally like to see one of the two guys on our roster bust out and lead the team to a title or just even take them to the game itself. One doesn't have to look hard to see what the odds are of that happening.

Usually the team starting the backup out of necessity doesn't end its season with a trip to the White House and rings for everybody. That's all I'm saying. I'll never be mistaken for a big-time Schaub supporter.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 04:48 PM
It seems that there are those here that feel that Kubiak is not really implying that Case will play in the next game behind Schaub this time......

I have been implying that Yates will be the #2 come Sept 9, no matter what Case does. I think Kubiak needs to feel he did everything he possibly can to bring Case up to speed because Keenum may be getting an opportunity to show he deserves to start in this league.

Schaub is injury prone.

Schaub is not likely to make it through the season.

Schaub will probably miss 4 or more games this year.

Tj may not be good enough.

If Case gets that opportunity, Kubiak won't let it be an excuse for why we didn't accomplish our goal...... Super Bowl.

Speedy
08-11-2013, 04:59 PM
I have been implying that Yates will be the #2 come Sept 9, no matter what Case does. I think Kubiak needs to feel he did everything he possibly can to bring Case up to speed because Keenum may be getting an opportunity to show he deserves to start in this league.

Schaub is injury prone.

Schaub is not likely to make it through the season.

Schaub will probably miss 4 or more games this year.

Tj may not be good enough.

If Case gets that opportunity, Kubiak won't let it be an excuse for why we didn't accomplish our goal...... Super Bowl.

Oh, I get it now. You have no clue what you're talking about. Makes perfect sense now.

Schaub is injury prone?? You don't even watch football do you? He's started 58 of 64 games the last 4 years. And those 6 he missed were because some fat guy rolled over and crushed his foot. Matt Schaub may be a lot of things and take a lot of heat here, but he is not injury prone.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 05:08 PM
Oh, I get it now. You have no clue what you're talking about. Makes perfect sense now.



We can put it to a vote. I'd bet most fans are not confident that Schaub will play 16+ games in 2013 & most are shocked that he did in 2012.

That might not prove that I know what I'm talking about, but I'm not making sht up either.

If Schaub gets all Gimpy like he did last December, I'd want options. I want Tj ready to go & if he doesn't command the starter position, I want Keenum to take a shot.

To that end, I would say there's a QB competition for the #2 spot instead of saying, "Keenum is most likely going to be the #2 QB at sometime during the year, because gimp there can't pull it together."

Speedy
08-11-2013, 05:11 PM
We can put it to a vote. I'd bet most fans are not confident that Schaub will play 16+ games in 2013 & most are shocked that he did in 2012.

That might not prove that I know what I'm talking about, but I'm not making sht up either.

If Schaub gets all Gimpy like he did last December, I'd want options. I want Tj ready to go & if he doesn't command the starter position, I want Keenum to take a shot.

To that end, I would say there's a QB competition for the #2 spot instead of saying, "Keenum is most likely going to be the #2 QB at sometime during the year, because gimp there can't pull it together."

Who gives a crap what fans think? It doesn't change the fact that if anyone thinks he's injury prone, they're delusional.

thunderkyss
08-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Who gives a crap what fans think? It doesn't change the fact that if you think he's injury prone, you're delusional.

Right.


Other than the fact that he's injury prone.


Those big DTs roll up on people's feet all the time. Some even stomp on the guy they rolled up on as they get up.

Speedy
08-11-2013, 05:16 PM
Right.


Other than the fact that he's injury prone.


Those big DTs roll up on people's feet all the time. Some even stomp on the guy they rolled up on as they get up.

OMG! I'm done talking with you. Your ignorance is too much.

GuerillaBlack
08-11-2013, 08:06 PM
For the people saying Keenum has no arm strength, did you watch him play at all in college? The combine thing came out and people have been running with it, but those same people most likely never watched Keenum play at UH.

Some highlights for the unaware:

This one right here was beautiful and hit his man in stride:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaltTgbUxV0

And in stride again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qqc0z6tnE

And some 2011 highlights here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX5Ji77NMQY

BullBlitz
08-11-2013, 09:05 PM
Right.


Other than the fact that he's injury prone.

Good one. :ahhaha:

ArTex
08-11-2013, 09:54 PM
Its a credit to Keenum that he was played well and made it a contest.

Though its not like Yates did poorly or anything last game. Yates is still doing just well enough to keep his backup spot. Keenum had lots of shorter dump off passes where receivers had yards-after-catch. And he was playing against 3rd and 4th teamers.

Yes Yates benefited on 1 long pass play that a talented receiver made FOR him, but its still Yates job to deliver the ball there where he can make the play, and he did.

Even without the long TD, Yates woulda still been
12-20 for 118 yards,
compared to Keenum's
13-18 for 125 yards.

I DON'T want YATES to FAIL. It'd mean that the Texans are a WORSE TEAM with more question marks.

-
That said, with the EYE TEST: Keenum has some "pluckiness" about him to the way he handles things. Those rollouts he did were performed very nicely with good movement and execution. Even if its shorter passes, that is as much a football play as anything.

Even with how nice the actual stats are, it could have been ever BETTER. Keenum CLEARLY DIRECTED and MOVED the offense down the field for scores. He did what he was supposed to do. Where Yates worked with a little more talent to aid him, Keenum's players probably brought HIM DOWN.

The UPSIDE favors Keenum. (Gosh, both of these guys are "old')

DocBar
08-11-2013, 11:31 PM
Its a credit to Keenum that he was played well and made it a contest.

Though its not like Yates did poorly or anything last game. Yates is still doing just well enough to keep his backup spot. Keenum had lots of shorter dump off passes where receivers had yards-after-catch. And he was playing against 3rd and 4th teamers.
Yes Yates benefited on 1 long pass play that a talented receiver made FOR him, but its still Yates job to deliver the ball there where he can make the play, and he did.

Even without the long TD, Yates woulda still been
12-20 for 118 yards,
compared to Keenum's
13-18 for 125 yards.

I DON'T want YATES to FAIL. It'd mean that the Texans are a WORSE TEAM with more question marks.

-
That said, with the EYE TEST: Keenum has some "pluckiness" about him to the way he handles things. Those rollouts he did were performed very nicely with good movement and execution. Even if its shorter passes, that is as much a football play as anything.

Even with how nice the actual stats are, it could have been ever BETTER. Keenum CLEARLY DIRECTED and MOVED the offense down the field for scores. He did what he was supposed to do. Where Yates worked with a little more talent to aid him, Keenum's players probably brought HIM DOWN.

The UPSIDE favors Keenum. (Gosh, both of these guys are "old')Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.

76Texan
08-11-2013, 11:45 PM
Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.

Good points!

legacy_gt
08-12-2013, 12:42 AM
for those that have not followed keenum's whole's collegiate career, his college situation is similar to his current nfl situation.

in 06, keenum was 2nd or 3rd to Kevin Kolb. After Kolb graduated, Keenum had to battle it out with Joseph Blake. Case did his homework, and eventually beat out Blake. The guy loves competition. It cost him his knee when he threw an interception and tried to take matters in the his own hands. He's got no fear.

Case has a lot of college experience and I've watched his instincts and cold blooded play over the years. There's a reason why, Briles, Sumlin, and Kubiak speak a lot of praise from this guy. His last collegiate game against elite defensive Penn State put the icing on the cake with for 532 yards and 3 TDs.


I'm a Schaub fan. I also like TJ a lot. But it's nice to know that Keenum is working hard. He won't start anytime soon, but all of you guys will see that this kid is the real deal. His insticts, IQ, vision, footwork and leadership are his strong points.



Btw, all of you hating because he's from UH are just dumb. I've always supported all the QB's from this state. I just don't get it.

CloakNNNdagger
08-12-2013, 07:45 AM
Hitting receivers in stride is a hallmark of YAC. That's a very good thing that Keenum hit receivers short and they had more YAC. The WCO is predicated on that very dynamic. Having low YAC means the QB either held the ball to long or didn't lead his receiver properly.

A difference I was trying to point out between the play of Yates and the play of Keenum. :clap:MSR:clap:

TejasTom
08-12-2013, 08:08 AM
A difference I was trying to point out between the play of Yates and the play of Keenum. :clap:MSR:clap:

Got him for you.


I never saw Keenum play at UfH. I didn't go to UofH. I was impressed with Yates his rookie year but Keenum looks better now.

I will BOO Kubiak if he doesn't give Keenum a shot with the 2s this Saturday.

GoCoogs
08-12-2013, 08:43 AM
When Case was moving the offense down the field they showed Yates on the sideline looking on. The look on Yates' face didn't look like someone who felt he wasn't in any competition.

Carr Bombed
08-12-2013, 02:22 PM
I bet you money Yates will open the season as our #2 QB behind Schaub (baring injury).


& it doesn't even matter how well Keenum does, because there is no competition. Keenum cannot compete with what Yates has... real NFL experience. Real NFL play-off experience.


It's coachspeak & I'm surprised so many fell for it.

Im surprised you actually believe the crap you typed above.. LMAO WOW! :)

Here's a dose of reality.. There's a heated competition at the backup QB position and the "NFL experience" you speak of, the year Yates got that experience he was the 3rd string QB... behind Matt Lienhart, so it's not like he earned the opportunity through his play, it came to him by the way of injury and he's only been here one more season than the guy pushing him.. so lets not act like he's some grizzly vet entrenched at his position on the team.

HJam72
08-12-2013, 02:37 PM
for those that have not followed keenum's whole's collegiate career, his college situation is similar to his current nfl situation.

in 06, keenum was 2nd or 3rd to Kevin Kolb. After Kolb graduated, Keenum had to battle it out with Joseph Blake. Case did his homework, and eventually beat out Blake. The guy loves competition. It cost him his knee when he threw an interception and tried to take matters in the his own hands. He's got no fear.

Case has a lot of college experience and I've watched his instincts and cold blooded play over the years. There's a reason why, Briles, Sumlin, and Kubiak speak a lot of praise from this guy. His last collegiate game against elite defensive Penn State put the icing on the cake with for 532 yards and 3 TDs.


I'm a Schaub fan. I also like TJ a lot. But it's nice to know that Keenum is working hard. He won't start anytime soon, but all of you guys will see that this kid is the real deal. His insticts, IQ, vision, footwork and leadership are his strong points.



Btw, all of you hating because he's from UH are just dumb. I've always supported all the QB's from this state. I just don't get it.

Oh, he's from UH. Well, Yates is safe then. :spin:

Just wanted to make my little comment, :) but I was impressed with Keenum.

TdotTexas2Step
08-13-2013, 10:55 AM
Coming from a completely unbiased Texas point of view, and a completely biased Houston Texans point of view, I'm really happy we have two capable QBs playing behind Schaub.

For one, it's good to have solid depth just in case we get unlucky, and for two, it will keep Matt on his toes. I want Schaub to succeed, but I'm still pretty salty about seeing him throw balls at his feet, even when the play was still alive in the playoffs against the Patriots.

As for the "backup quarterback" controversy, I think Case comes close but Yates wins out at least for this season. The NFL is a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately?" kind of league, and people remember the last time Yates was given consistent time as a starter, he performed. I still remember TJ's drive against the Bengals that finally clinched that elusive playoff berth. He performed admirably that season with the reps.

Just to play devil's advocate, does anyone remember that play in TJ's first start against the Falcons, play action by design, TJ stumbles initially, regains balance and hits Johnson in stride over the middle deep? Had Case done that exact play, this site would be shut down due to traffic.

Case is talented no doubt (I also understand cheering for homegrown talent, for basketball fans, Wiggins is a big deal right now in Toronto), but he faces an uphill battle as an undrafted QB. For me, and others, you've got to bring Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and Tony Romo into the discussion when bringing up undrafted yet successful QBs.

For Warner and Moon however, they both had to not only experience failure, but also found playing time elsewhere before being given a shot. Warner was cut and ended up almost completely ditching the sport, but found a niche in the Arena Football League, built up confidence then the rest is history. Moon played in the CFL, was amazing, and then the NFL bid on him realizing they messed up.

Romo is a bit of a different story. He was brought onto a team that didn't exactly have any competition. Chad Hutchinson, who was a baseball player first really, wasn't anything, Vinny Testaverde was brought in to really mentor guys like Carter (who failed his drug test, and was also another baseball guy), and Bledsoe was simply running his victory lap at this point. This scenario and strong support from Sean Payton is what allowed Romo to dart up the depth chart.

At the same time, some people who use Romo as an example of an undrafted QB, have also ripped Romo as a QB in the past. :kitten:

Either way, I think Yates wins out, but if Case succeeds and beats the odds, even better because I know the coaching staff will make the right call for this team. If Case gets it, it's because he earned it, and not because of UH bias like some people. And that's the way it should be, because this team is entering uncharted territory, we expect a Super Bowl now, so we should put forth the best team possible.

76Texan
08-13-2013, 11:17 AM
Well said, T.T2S

:tiphat: