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maddogmrb
09-05-2013, 03:29 PM
Congrats to TJ for being named #2 and congrats to both men for an excellent pre-season. I'm looking forward to seeing both play more significant roles in the future.

Like most here, except for TC, we can see the real upside of Case. I hope the Texans trade TJ and keep Case and let him groom for the next year or two.

brakos82
09-05-2013, 04:11 PM
http://i.imgur.com/G0ScWuv.png

badboy
09-05-2013, 04:14 PM
Man. I am so glad this has been decided and I can now get some sleep. signed Matt Schaub.

drs23
09-05-2013, 04:30 PM
Isn't there supposed to be some head shavin' or something of the sorts going on about now??? :kitten:

9baller
09-05-2013, 11:59 PM
Will I be able to buy my #7 Keenum jersey now that he made the roster?

Brisco_County
09-06-2013, 01:20 AM
Keenum has more upside, and I would like to see him start eventually, but the right call was made. There wasn't enough of a gap between the two in preseason to justify unseating Yates. Yates stepped it up considerably compared to last season. And this competition is going to be even more interesting next year.

Scooter
09-06-2013, 02:13 AM
i agree that the right call was made. yates is the safe bet to come in and run the entire offense if needed. the playbook would look slightly different with keenum i assume. i think keenum can and may be a starter sooner rather than later, but yates is probably the better backup.

call me cynical but it also helps maintain yates's value. his stock would drop quite a bit if he were demoted to 3rd string.

thunderkyss
09-06-2013, 02:44 AM
the playbook would look slightly different with keenum i assume. i think keenum can and may be a starter sooner rather than later, but yates is probably the better backup.


I think Yates could be a very good starter. We won't know until he gets his opportunity.


But I think Kubiak would love to draw up some plays for Keenum.

drs23
09-06-2013, 11:20 AM
I think Yates could be a very good starter. We won't know until he gets his opportunity.


But I think Kubiak would love to draw up some plays for Keenum.

If I were a wagering man I'd bet there are a few already inked. I imagine Gary's been doodling for a while now.

TheIronDuke
09-06-2013, 11:27 AM
Yates' performances have been #2, that's for sure.

76Texan
09-06-2013, 11:38 AM
Yates' performances have been #2, that's for sure.

They both did well; better than most, perhaps better than almost all #2s out there, and probably even better than a few ones.

Thorn
09-06-2013, 11:52 AM
They both did well; better than most, perhaps better than almost all #2s out there, and probably even better than a few ones.

We have two backup QBs that can inserted into a game and keep it going for a bit. One of them has starting experience and has shown he can win a playoff game against a badly coached team. I'm comfortable with them both, most especially when you look at a lot of the other backup QBs in the league.

I still think Keenum will be starting material some day though.

speedfreek
09-06-2013, 11:52 AM
You know, after watching preseason, I feel as though Gary
was sort of testing that "it factor". He put Case into a
few positions with a really negative potential outcome just
to see if he could produce.

I can't get over the TD pass on 4th and 2 from the 30
something yard line. Or the 28 yard completion to the
middle of the field when Keenum was standing in the
endzone with the pocket collapsing around him.

Honestly, I just cannot fathom Gary letting Matt or T.J.
even attempt those. It's so "outside of the Kubiak comfort
zone". Granted, it was the preseason, but I don't ever
recall him doing that in prior preseasons either.

Everytime I saw a play like that I got sort of a "Sink or Swim"
feeling from Gary's playcalling.

TJ

2012Champs
09-06-2013, 12:02 PM
I think Yates could be a very good starter. We won't know until he gets his opportunity.


But I think Kubiak would love to draw up some plays for Keenum.



yates did get the chance to be a starter and was very average despite what his fans would like to call it

76Texan
09-06-2013, 12:17 PM
You know, after watching preseason, I feel as though Gary
was sort of testing that "it factor". He put Case into a
few positions with a really negative potential outcome just
to see if he could produce.

I can't get over the TD pass on 4th and 2 from the 30
something yard line. Or the 28 yard completion to the
middle of the field when Keenum was standing in the
endzone with the pocket collapsing around him.

Honestly, I just cannot fathom Gary letting Matt or T.J.
even attempt those. It's so "outside of the Kubiak comfort
zone". Granted, it was the preseason, but I don't ever
recall him doing that in prior preseasons either.

Everytime I saw a play like that I got sort of a "Sink or Swim"
feeling from Gary's playcalling.

TJ

I know.
I was saying that Keenum was put in more challenging situations than what we normally see in the preseason, with any coach really.

They only do that to find out if the guy can handle the various situations.
Keenum passed those tests admirably.

On the other hand, Yates were put in fewer challenging situations, and he also passed those tests. Not only that, he executed most of the routine plays well as a whole.

It was a very good battle.

76Texan
09-06-2013, 12:22 PM
We have two backup QBs that can inserted into a game and keep it going for a bit. One of them has starting experience and has shown he can win a playoff game against a badly coached team. I'm comfortable with them both, most especially when you look at a lot of the other backup QBs in the league.

I still think Keenum will be starting material some day though.

I hope so Thorn; I hope so.

thunderkyss
09-06-2013, 12:26 PM
yates did get the chance to be a starter and was very average despite what his fans would like to call it

I'm no more a Yates fan than I am a Keenum fan, but what Yates did in 2011.... average is pretty good for a rookie in that situation.

Double Barrel
09-06-2013, 12:28 PM
Or the 28 yard completion to the
middle of the field when Keenum was standing in the
endzone with the pocket collapsing around him.

This is the play etched in my mind about Keenum. He showed great composure in that situation and never appeared to be anything but in full control of the pass.

The Texans are very fortunate to have some depth at many positions, QB included. I do not think either backup is better than Schaub, but I also do not feel like the season is lost if Schaub goes down.

76Texan
09-06-2013, 12:39 PM
This is the play etched in my mind about Keenum. He showed great composure in that situation and never appeared to be anything but in full control of the pass.

The Texans are very fortunate to have some depth at many positions, QB included. I do not think either backup is better than Schaub, but I also do not feel like the season is lost if Schaub goes down.

That's a luxury right there, DB.

At the most important position on the team.

I just hope that we can survive the injuries at other positions, especially on the line and at key positions on defense.

2012Champs
09-06-2013, 12:42 PM
I'm no more a Yates fan than I am a Keenum fan, but what Yates did in 2011.... average is pretty good for a rookie in that situation.



I wouldnt say his playoff ints were average

thunderkyss
09-06-2013, 12:46 PM
I wouldnt say his playoff ints were average

...ok

yates did get the chance to be a starter and was very average despite what his fans would like to call it

but you're the one who said he was average.

Thorn
09-06-2013, 01:49 PM
I hope so Thorn; I hope so.

I think the backup QB position, while debatable to a degree here, is one of the least of our worries for this team.

2012Champs
09-06-2013, 01:51 PM
...ok



but you're the one who said he was average.



I was being overly generous with the term average

TejasTom
09-06-2013, 02:00 PM
Yates' performances have been #2, that's for sure.



They both did well; better than most, perhaps better than almost all #2s out there, and probably even better than a few ones.

I read IronDukes comment totally different, with a much more juvenile connotation, as in taking a #2.

76Texan
09-06-2013, 02:02 PM
I was being overly generous with the term average

All technicalities!
TK was only playing the field, as he normally does .
He's the Henry Kissinger of football MB.

Sometimes you hate him; sometimes you love him.
Sometimes he makes a lot of sense; occasionally he doensn't.
He throws you into a maze and then he pulls back.
It's a natural talent .

You don't know how much I dislike Kissinger as a politician, but after years of reflection, the guy was damn smart.

Vance87
09-06-2013, 02:33 PM
All technicalities!
TK was only playing the field, as he normally does .
He's the Henry Kissinger of football MB.

Sometimes you hate him; sometimes you love him.
Sometimes he makes a lot of sense; occasionally he doensn't.
He throws you into a maze and then he pulls back.
It's a natural talent .

You don't know how much I dislike Kissinger as a politician, but after years of reflection, the guy was damn smart.

So basically, you despise TK, but you think he's really intelligent.

WolverineFan
09-06-2013, 03:17 PM
People are too quick to rush Keenum into the spotlight. I realize he has a ton of local fans, but give the kid some time and be objective about his progress. He needs time to develop and learn how to be a starting QB in the NFL. Too many times teams are rushing QB development because of pressure from ownership or fanbase.

Green Bay did it right. Had a guy in place and let their young guy develop. When the time was right, they cut the vet loose and let their guy take over. It's amazing to me that so many teams do not take the same approach. There are so many young QB's in the league right now who are just not very good because their franchise rushed them and didn't take the time to let them develop.

.......

Schaub's play is dwindling and has been for some time now. He's still a solid NFL starter, but that's mainly because of the ridiculous talent he's surrounded by. We really need to be developing his replacement right now because we can not afford to be that team who just throws the next guy right into the fire.

Yates is a very solid QB. He's not a star, but he can get the job done. I see him as one of the better backup QB's in the league right now. Hopefully we can retain him for some time because I really like him as a #2.

I like Keenum and he could be the guy that we are developing to replace Schaub. But there is absolutely no reason to rush the process. Give the guy some time to get better. I'm interested to see how he progresses this year and see where he's at around this time next year.

If he continues to take care of business I can easily see him passing Yates next year and possibly supplanting Schaub the year after that.

badboy
09-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Will I be able to buy my #7 Keenum jersey now that he made the roster?I think Manziel is signing Keenum's stuff and selling it.

speedfreek
09-06-2013, 11:02 PM
Funny thought!

(those two guys couldn't be more 180 degrees out of phase
in terms of ethics and discipline..)

Can you believe how lucky Kevin Sumlin has been for his
entire career as a collegiate head coach?

I could totally see Jerrah firing the redhead and hiring Kevin
to replace him -- at the same time drafting JFF (if they have
another bad year.)

Even if the team sucked, he'd do it just for the crazy amount
of money all of those new Ag-Cowboy fans would generate..

Jerrah strikes me as more of a salesman than a winner..

TJ

I think Manziel is signing Keenum's stuff and selling it.

eriadoc
09-07-2013, 12:45 PM
People are too quick to rush Keenum into the spotlight. I realize he has a ton of local fans, but give the kid some time and be objective about his progress. He needs time to develop and learn how to be a starting QB in the NFL. Too many times teams are rushing QB development because of pressure from ownership or fanbase.

Green Bay did it right. Had a guy in place and let their young guy develop. When the time was right, they cut the vet loose and let their guy take over. It's amazing to me that so many teams do not take the same approach. There are so many young QB's in the league right now who are just not very good because their franchise rushed them and didn't take the time to let them develop.

...

I like Keenum and he could be the guy that we are developing to replace Schaub. But there is absolutely no reason to rush the process. Give the guy some time to get better. I'm interested to see how he progresses this year and see where he's at around this time next year.

If he continues to take care of business I can easily see him passing Yates next year and possibly supplanting Schaub the year after that.

These echo my thoughts on the situation. Rep.

DocBar
09-07-2013, 03:00 PM
People are too quick to rush Keenum into the spotlight. I realize he has a ton of local fans, but give the kid some time and be objective about his progress. He needs time to develop and learn how to be a starting QB in the NFL. Too many times teams are rushing QB development because of pressure from ownership or fanbase.

Green Bay did it right. Had a guy in place and let their young guy develop. When the time was right, they cut the vet loose and let their guy take over. It's amazing to me that so many teams do not take the same approach. There are so many young QB's in the league right now who are just not very good because their franchise rushed them and didn't take the time to let them develop.

.......

Schaub's play is dwindling and has been for some time now. He's still a solid NFL starter, but that's mainly because of the ridiculous talent he's surrounded by. We really need to be developing his replacement right now because we can not afford to be that team who just throws the next guy right into the fire.

Yates is a very solid QB. He's not a star, but he can get the job done. I see him as one of the better backup QB's in the league right now. Hopefully we can retain him for some time because I really like him as a #2.

I like Keenum and he could be the guy that we are developing to replace Schaub. But there is absolutely no reason to rush the process. Give the guy some time to get better. I'm interested to see how he progresses this year and see where he's at around this time next year.

If he continues to take care of business I can easily see him passing Yates next year and possibly supplanting Schaub the year after that.If Schaub has any semblance of a late season or playoff swoon, it will be between Yates and Keenum next year, imho.

As for your earlier comments, I think teams should use good sense in developing players. Not all players need to sit for 3 years to learn their respective systems. Not all players are ready to start right away.

DX-TEX
09-07-2013, 04:22 PM
If Schaub has any semblance of a late season or playoff swoon, it will be between Yates and Keenum next year, imho.

As for your earlier comments, I think teams should use good sense in developing players. Not all players need to sit for 3 years to learn their respective systems. Not all players are ready to start right away.

Said the same thing a couple months.

Hey I also saw you at the Chargers MB.:fans:

DocBar
09-07-2013, 05:14 PM
Said the same thing a couple months.

Hey I also saw you at the Chargers MB.:fans: Yeah. I was planning on going to the game, but my buddy that was going with me can't get off work on Tuesday (we are working in El Centro, Ca.) and it would suck going by myself. I can get 50 yd line field level seats for $200. Those are cheap tickets for the location.

thunderkyss
09-07-2013, 07:49 PM
Yeah. I was planning on going to the game, but my buddy that was going with me can't get off work on Tuesday (we are working in El Centro, Ca.) and it would suck going by myself. I can get 50 yd line field level seats for $200. Those are cheap tickets for the location.


Shoot yeah that's a steal. Heard they still haven't sold out, so they may black it out. I'd find someone to go with if I were you. Jj Watt won't be making that trip very often.

2012Champs
09-07-2013, 10:22 PM
If Schaub has any semblance of a late season or playoff swoon, it will be between Yates and Keenum next year, imho.

As for your earlier comments, I think teams should use good sense in developing players. Not all players need to sit for 3 years to learn their respective systems. Not all players are ready to start right away.



A playoff swoon by Schaub and two players who can't start in the nfl take his place? I don't see it

DocBar
09-08-2013, 01:39 AM
A playoff swoon by Schaub and two players who can't start in the nfl take his place? I don't see itLay off of what ever you're smoking. I'll bet you a paycheck that Smith is fielding offers for both Yates and Keenum. Either one can start in the NFL, and one will at some point. And I'm taking MUCH more of a risk, paycheck-wise, than you are. If not, you're an extremely well paid individual.

thunderkyss
09-08-2013, 08:30 AM
A playoff swoon by Schaub and two players who can't start in the nfl take his place? I don't see it

I felt the same way about Sage that DocBar feels about Yates & Keenum.

I'd have started Sage before I traded two 2nd rounders & signed a guy to be the starting QB. I want someone to win the job on the field. & Sage beat Carr out for the job, imo.

Nothing against Matt, the trade worked out better than I expected.

My plan is that Matt is the starter as long as he's healthy. But if we're down early like we were against the Pats or Packers last year, I'm sending one of the kids in. If they play exceptional (because playing fine, or alright isn't going to cut it) then they'll get to start the next game & we'll go from there.

If benching Schaub doesn't turn on that "sense of urgency" switch, I don't know what will. But our next starting QB is going to win the job (if I had anything to say about it). If Kubiak thinks he can win 10 or more games with Yates/Keenum, I'm fine with that. If he brings someone in to compete for the job in the offseason, I'm fine with that.

If he brings Schaub back, after a play off swoon, I won't understand it, but I'd support him & root for him best I could. & my idea of a play off swoon is probably not as liberal as some. His 2012 performance did not warrant replacing him or the slack he's gotten since.

gafftop
09-08-2013, 09:57 AM
I felt the same way about Sage that DocBar feels about Yates & Keenum.

I'd have started Sage before I traded two 2nd rounders & signed a guy to be the starting QB. I want someone to win the job on the field. & Sage beat Carr out for the job, imo.

Nothing against Matt, the trade worked out better than I expected.

My plan is that Matt is the starter as long as he's healthy. But if we're down early like we were against the Pats or Packers last year, I'm sending one of the kids in. If they play exceptional (because playing fine, or alright isn't going to cut it) then they'll get to start the next game & we'll go from there.

If benching Schaub doesn't turn on that "sense of urgency" switch, I don't know what will. But our next starting QB is going to win the job (if I had anything to say about it). If Kubiak thinks he can win 10 or more games with Yates/Keenum, I'm fine with that. If he brings someone in to compete for the job in the offseason, I'm fine with that.

If he brings Schaub back, after a play off swoon, I won't understand it, but I'd support him & root for him best I could. & my idea of a play off swoon is probably not as liberal as some. His 2012 performance did not warrant replacing him or the slack he's gotten since.

Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.

thunderkyss
09-08-2013, 10:18 AM
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling.


I don't really care what they do in the regular season against the "elite" teams. Baltimore won the Super Bowl & we whupped their a55. Maybe Denver wasn't playing their best game when we crushed them, but that was still Peyton Manning sitting on the sideline opposite Matt. We also beat New England when they were trying to secure a bye week... for some reason "we" say that was a meaningless game, but in 2012 winning that one game was the difference between being in the Super Bowl & watching the Super Bowl.

We won't see the Packers or Saints in the post season until the Super Bowl... so again, not worried.

There's enough crap teams out there for us to secure our play off berth against.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game.

Chances are 1 in a million that either of those guys will be a franchise QB. If we were to draft a QB after the 25th pick in the draft, chances are probably 10 in a million.

I hope we hit on one of the two, then we can just keep on rolling. I don't care which.

What I don't like, though, is that Kubiak has Schaub & he believes he can win a Super Bowl with him. He probably can but if there was a QB that he thought we will win a Super Bowl with, I wish he would have gone & got him. Maybe he thinks that is Case, or Tj, I don't know.

But if he thinks of them as QBs that can & they end up starting, I hope he doesn't stop looking for the one that will win a Super Bowl.

I really don't care how shiny he can make that penny, if there's a dime out there, go get the frk'n dime & call it a day.

kingtexan
09-08-2013, 11:50 AM
TJ has more experience, Case is the better QB, good problem to have if Matt does go down. I think we are way better off than we were with Matty L and TJ a couple years ago. I believe either of our backups could take us just as far as Schaub can.

gafftop
09-08-2013, 01:53 PM
I don't really care what they do in the regular season against the "elite" teams. Baltimore won the Super Bowl & we whupped their a55. Maybe Denver wasn't playing their best game when we crushed them, but that was still Peyton Manning sitting on the sideline opposite Matt. We also beat New England when they were trying to secure a bye week... for some reason "we" say that was a meaningless game, but in 2012 winning that one game was the difference between being in the Super Bowl & watching the Super Bowl.

We won't see the Packers or Saints in the post season until the Super Bowl... so again, not worried.

There's enough crap teams out there for us to secure our play off berth against.


Chances are 1 in a million that either of those guys will be a franchise QB. If we were to draft a QB after the 25th pick in the draft, chances are probably 10 in a million.

I hope we hit on one of the two, then we can just keep on rolling. I don't care which.

What I don't like, though, is that Kubiak has Schaub & he believes he can win a Super Bowl with him. He probably can but if there was a QB that he thought we will win a Super Bowl with, I wish he would have gone & got him. Maybe he thinks that is Case, or Tj, I don't know.

But if he thinks of them as QBs that can & they end up starting, I hope he doesn't stop looking for the one that will win a Super Bowl.

I really don't care how shiny he can make that penny, if there's a dime out there, go get the frk'n dime & call it a day.

When I say I would choose Case I mean out of the ones we have to choose from.
I agree also that it is a low probability that one of our current QB's is the one.
MS we know is not the one. We could win with him but not because of him. Of course I think the same could be said of GK also. With GK I am not sure we will ever see what the others can do unless there is an injury and I am not sure even then you will find out.

2012Champs
09-08-2013, 08:25 PM
Lay off of what ever you're smoking. I'll bet you a paycheck that Smith is fielding offers for both Yates and Keenum. Either one can start in the NFL, and one will at some point. And I'm taking MUCH more of a risk, paycheck-wise, than you are. If not, you're an extremely well paid individual.



I am fairly well paid so I am not sure who would be taking on more risk however there is no real bet here. How on earth would we know of Rick was fielding calls? Talk about smoking stuff. Yates/Case are not starter material at this point and Schaub tanking in the playoffs isn't going to cost him his starting role

thunderkyss
09-08-2013, 08:38 PM
Talk about smoking stuff. Yates/Case are not starter material at this point and Schaub tanking in the playoffs isn't going to cost him his starting role

What is it about Yates/Case that makes you think they are not "starting" material?

2012Champs
09-08-2013, 09:12 PM
What is it about Yates/Case that makes you think they are not "starting" material?



Neither impressed me with play, Yates more so than Case but nevertheless we end up with me being unimpressed

DocBar
09-08-2013, 09:51 PM
Neither impressed me with play, Yates more so than Case but nevertheless we end up with me being unimpressedBoth played very well in preseason, both had very good command of the offense and both made plays with their legs when the play broke down.

Maybe you've been watching the Texans too closely and think that WR's should have to slow down, come back to the ball or stop to make a catch and that QB's should assume the fetal position at the mere whiff of pressure.

What would a QB have to do to impress you? Be drafted early in the 1st round? Have a lot of hoopla about them coming out of college?

legacy_gt
09-08-2013, 11:22 PM
Neither impressed me with play, Yates more so than Case but nevertheless we end up with me being unimpressed

were you impressed with schaub's play in the pre-season? I guess you and kubiak /company in here are in a disagreement.

TejasTom
09-08-2013, 11:26 PM
Neither impressed me with play, Yates more so than Case but nevertheless we end up with me being unimpressed

Perhaps, like Kubiak, you are not a fan of hitting receivers in stride because it negatively effects time of possession.

2012Champs
09-08-2013, 11:48 PM
Both played very well in preseason, both had very good command of the offense and both made plays with their legs when the play broke down.

Maybe you've been watching the Texans too closely and think that WR's should have to slow down, come back to the ball or stop to make a catch and that QB's should assume the fetal position at the mere whiff of pressure.

What would a QB have to do to impress you? Be drafted early in the 1st round? Have a lot of hoopla about them coming out of college?



Do you think the texans are spending money just to spend money? Why if tj/case are as good as you say then why are we keeping Matt in there? Tj was well overhyped in his season fill in role and to the preseason the two would have to crush 2nd and 3rd tier Ds to impress me

2012Champs
09-08-2013, 11:50 PM
were you impressed with schaub's play in the pre-season? I guess you and kubiak /company in here are in a disagreement.

Perhaps, like Kubiak, you are not a fan of hitting receivers in stride because it negatively effects time of possession.



Schaub is far better than the other two

Maybe you should hope the best for tj and case vs top tier Ds in the nfl

DocBar
09-09-2013, 12:12 AM
Do you think the texans are spending money just to spend money? Why if tj/case are as good as you say then why are we keeping Matt in there? Tj was well overhyped in his season fill in role and to the preseason the two would have to crush 2nd and 3rd tier Ds to impress me No, I don't think the Texans are spending money just to spend it. They locked Schaub up based on the belief that if he'd been healthy for the entire 2011 season, the Texans might've been Super Bowl champs. They also signed him to a smart contract (Smith is apparently smarter than Kubiak because his "smart" stuff pays off) that doesn't hamstring the team too far in the future. They can cut or trade Schaub after this season and not owe him a dime.

Schaub has a penchant for wilting under the bright lights and pressure of big games. Maybe this year he'll turn it around and do great.

Yates did pretty dang good for a rookie 3rd string QB in 2010. About as good as one can reasonably expect. He's improved a lot since then.

Keenum has a knack for the position and seems to thrive in the same under the same circumstances Schaub wilts under. He's shown himself to be a very quick learner and that shallow learning curve showed itself this preseason when his natural talent and ability took over and the game seemed to slow down for him.

Schaub may very well play lights out and lead the Texans to a Super Bowl victory this season. That's not a good reason to downplay the quality of the two guys behind him. If Schaub goes down this season, Yates will be up to the task. I haven't felt this good about the backup QB position since Rosencopter was on the team.

I'm as unimpressed by your opinion of Yates and Keenum as you are with them.

legacy_gt
09-09-2013, 02:46 AM
Schaub is far better than the other two

Maybe you should hope the best for tj and case vs top tier Ds in the nfl

far better in the pre-season? schaub wasn't all that great actually in term of pre-season. schaub is superior at this point in time and he's our guy but to say that TJ and Case weren't impressive is off.

there's a reason why this thread is one of the longest current threads.

2012Champs
09-09-2013, 09:21 AM
far better in the pre-season? schaub wasn't all that great actually in term of pre-season. schaub is superior at this point in time and he's our guy but to say that TJ and Case weren't impressive is off.

there's a reason why this thread is one of the longest current threads.



If Yates and Case were playing against first teamers Id put more weight on their performance however this is not the case.

Case and his UoH tie is a reason this thread is so long, its the off season two and three people love to hate Schuab

thunderkyss
09-09-2013, 09:23 AM
I have no idea what Kubiak saw in Schaub to make him think he could be a starter in this league. Might have been more of his QB Guru "hubris" for all I know.... "Get me anybody but Carr Damgnbit!!!"

Matt's best game (http://www.nfl.com/player/mattschaub/2505982/gamelogs?season=2005) before the trade was an 18 of 34, 298 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT with a 112 passer rating against the 26th rank defense in the regular season.

Yate's best game (http://www.nfl.com/player/t.j.yates/2508123/gamelogs?season=2011) to date was an 11 for 20, 159 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT with a 97 passer rating against the 7th rank defense in the play offs.

Case's best game (http://www.nfl.com/player/casekeenum/2532888/gamelogs) so far was an 11 for 18, 150 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT with a 106.2 passer rating against Miami's second team defense in the preseason.


So, Kubiak has as much information on Tj that he had on Matt before making Matt the starter sight unseen, before even talking to him, so in that respect, he's probably got more info on both Tj & Case than he had on Matt.

Do I think Yates/Keenum can be a starter in this league? No, but I think they've each earned a shot & both give me reason to believe they can be. We've got 7 regular season games where Yates wasn't asked to do a whole lot, but he did what he was asked well, most of the time. We've got a good play off game from Yates & a horrible game (where he was asked to do a lot more than previous games).

Case is the bigger unknown. I don't think there is anything that can really prepare a kid for being an NFL starting QB. You do the best you can, but then you have to throw them out there & see what they're made of. Who'd have thunk Jeff Garcia would have a better career than Ryan Leaf?

infantrycak
09-09-2013, 09:28 AM
I have no idea what Kubiak saw in Schaub to make him think he could be a starter in this league. Might have been more of his QB Guru "hubris" for all I know.... "Get me anybody but Carr Damgnbit!!!"

Matt's best game (http://www.nfl.com/player/mattschaub/2505982/gamelogs?season=2005) before the trade was an 18 of 34, 298 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT with a 112 passer rating against the 26th rank defense in the regular season.

LOL - yeah, against the defending SB champs. It wasn't just Kubiak who saw something in Schaub. There were reports multiple teams offered 1st round picks the year before the Texans traded for him.

drs23
09-09-2013, 10:26 AM
Both played very well in preseason, both had very good command of the offense and both made plays with their legs when the play broke down.

Maybe you've been watching the Texans too closely and think that WR's should have to slow down, come back to the ball or stop to make a catch and that QB's should assume the fetal position at the mere whiff of pressure.

What would a QB have to do to impress you? Be drafted early in the 1st round? Have a lot of hoopla about them coming out of college?

Not saying that these are the most important criteria to me but I can say it sure don't hurt. And before you pounce, not saying it helps either. Leaf, Russell, list of stinkers ad infinum...

thunderkyss
09-09-2013, 10:36 AM
LOL - yeah, against the defending SB champs. It wasn't just Kubiak who saw something in Schaub. There were reports multiple teams offered 1st round picks the year before the Texans traded for him.

Kelly Holcombe (http://www.nfl.com/player/kellyholcomb/2501197/gamelogs?season=2005)had a "nice" game against the Pats that year as well.


Gus Frerotte (http://www.nfl.com/player/gusfrerotte/2500709/gamelogs?season=2005) threw for 360 yards & 2 TDs (1 INT) against them.

rmartin65
09-09-2013, 10:41 AM
Kelly Holcombe (http://www.nfl.com/player/kellyholcomb/2501197/gamelogs?season=2005)had a "nice" game against the Pats that year as well.


Gus Frerotte (http://www.nfl.com/player/gusfrerotte/2500709/gamelogs?season=2005) threw for 360 yards & 2 TDs (1 INT) against them.

And that is why scouts watch games, not just box score watch. I can't remember how Schaub, Holcomb, and Frerotte looked against the Pats that year. But I do remember that Schaub was being touted as a future NFL starting QB, and that multiple teams were interested. I dont remember that about the other two.

thunderkyss
09-09-2013, 10:58 AM
And that is why scouts watch games, not just box score watch. I can't remember how Schaub, Holcomb, and Frerotte looked against the Pats that year. But I do remember that Schaub was being touted as a future NFL starting QB, and that multiple teams were interested. I dont remember that about the other two.

My point was that 1 game couldn't have been all there was to Kubiak's decision. Had to be more.

badboy
09-09-2013, 11:00 AM
I think this team only needs a starter and a solid backup at the QB + a decent guy on PS like Keenum last season or a top notch draft pick on roster learning behind other two. Towards end of this season as QBs go down and teams gear up for the play offs (or desperately try to remain in the race) I hope for a trade of Yates. Let's use our surplus to strengthen another spot or two in 2014 draft.

I enjoy being this deep at a prime position but not when we have issues elsewhere.

infantrycak
09-09-2013, 11:45 AM
Kelly Holcombe (http://www.nfl.com/player/kellyholcomb/2501197/gamelogs?season=2005)had a "nice" game against the Pats that year as well.


Gus Frerotte (http://www.nfl.com/player/gusfrerotte/2500709/gamelogs?season=2005) threw for 360 yards & 2 TDs (1 INT) against them.

Do you just randomly pull stuff up and call it the same? 1st off Holcomb's game wasn't close to the same. 2nd you are comparing an injury plagued QB in his 10th season on his way out of the league with a young buck stuck behind the highest paid player in football. Similarly Frerotte was in his 12th year, had already been judged and was on his way out of the league.

thunderkyss
09-09-2013, 12:40 PM
Do you just randomly pull stuff up and call it the same? 1st off Holcomb's game wasn't close to the same. 2nd you are comparing an injury plagued QB in his 10th season on his way out of the league with a young buck stuck behind the highest paid player in football. Similarly Frerotte was in his 12th year, had already been judged and was on his way out of the league.

That's the only point that was relevant. A good game against that New England defense (regardless of the fact that they had just won the Super Bowl) does not qualify one as an instant, sight-unseen, starter.




Are you calling Schaub injury plagued?

ArlingtonTexan
09-09-2013, 01:32 PM
I think this team only needs a starter and a solid backup at the QB + a decent guy on PS like Keenum last season or a top notch draft pick on roster learning behind other two. Towards end of this season as QBs go down and teams gear up for the play offs (or desperately try to remain in the race) I hope for a trade of Yates. Let's use our surplus to strengthen another spot or two in 2014 draft.

I enjoy being this deep at a prime position but not when we have issues elsewhere.

The trade deadline is somewhere around Halloween(week 8), so those injuries can't come to late in the season.

infantrycak
09-09-2013, 01:38 PM
Are you calling Schaub injury plagued?

Excuse me, I was thinking of Tim Couch and I do not consider him anything like Schaub because he had repeat injuries to his throwing arm and hand.

TEXANRED
09-09-2013, 02:12 PM
Are you calling Schaub injury plagued?

I would. Has Schaub ever put together back to back years together playing every game?

infantrycak
09-09-2013, 02:20 PM
I would. Has Schaub ever put together back to back years together playing every game?

Well he has played all 16 games 3 of the last 4 seasons. That answers your question.

ObsiWan
09-09-2013, 02:54 PM
LOL - yeah, against the defending SB champs. It wasn't just Kubiak who saw something in Schaub. There were reports multiple teams offered 1st round picks the year before the Texans traded for him.

I was curious about which QBs were available when Kubiak went out and got Schaub so I did a bit of "Googling"... This from Football's Future (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nfl/freeagents.html)...


Top Quarterbacks
Matt Schaub, RFA, Atlanta Falcons
The free agent quarterback class is light in 2007, but teams in true need of a field general may be highly interested in Schaub. He has an NFL arm and has shown flashes of possibly being a legitimate quality starting quarterback. It is likely that just a handful of teams would aggressively pursue Schaub, but if someone is willing to pay decent money and forfeit a draft pick for Schaub, he could be lured away from his spot behind Michael Vick. In the end, Schaubís chances of re-signing with the Falcons donít look good, as Schaub will likely pursue a bigger role in another offense. A handful of teams could look for their starter in Atlanta.

The next two guys they listed (and described) were Tim Rattay and Jeff Garcia. You can click the link to see the write-ups. The others they listed were...

Other Free Agent Quarterbacks

Drew Bledsoe, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
Aaron Brooks, UFA, Oakland Raiders
Rohan Davey, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Brad Johnson, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Shaun King, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
John Navarre, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Anthony Wright, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals


That was all that there was to pick from when Smithiak decided - in 2007 - that Carr had to go. And no, neither Young nor Leinart were available at the time. ...lucky for us.

infantrycak
09-09-2013, 03:04 PM
That was all that there was to pick from when Smithiak decided - in 2007 - that Carr had to go. And no, neither Young nor Leinart were available at the time. ...lucky for us.

Here were the 2007 draft picks:

2007
1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders Louisiana State
1 22 Brady Quinn Browns Notre Dame
2 4 Kevin Kolb Eagles Houston
2 8 John Beck Dolphins Brigham Young
2 11 Drew Stanton Lions Michigan State
3 29 Trent Edwards Bills Stanford
4 4 Isaiah Stanback Cowboys Washington
5 14 Jeff Rowe Bengals Nevada
5 37 Troy Smith Ravens Ohio State
6 31 Jordan Palmer Redskins Texas-El Paso
7 7 Tyler Thigpen Vikings Coastal Carolina

Translation - a whole lotta nothing.

thunderkyss
09-09-2013, 03:15 PM
That was all that there was to pick from when Smithiak decided - in 2007 - that Carr had to go. And no, neither Young nor Leinart were available at the time. ...lucky for us.

I remember when Kubiak came & everyone was talking about drafting Reggie Bush. I didn't like that idea because I thought Reggie was not a 3 down back & I was confident DD would play another year.

I didn't know Mario Williams & I was open to drafting D'Brickshaw Ferguson. But I said if we're going to do something stupid, we should draft Vince Young because we're going to be looking to replace David Carr in a years time anyway. I've been called hard-headed before, but when they gave Carr that $8M I dropped the Vince Young thing.

Sure enough, we were looking to replace David Carr a year later.

But if we go even farther back, I wanted Kubiak to bring Jake Plummer, but we got screwed on that deal.

In hindsight, I have no problem saying their decision to get Schaub was handsdown the best decision they could have made.

Doesn't change the fact that I don't know what Kubiak saw that made him so confident to do it & I still doubt that New England game was it.

ChampionTexan
09-09-2013, 03:18 PM
I would. Has Schaub ever put together back to back years together playing every game?

Just a hint for future reference - when asking questions in order to demonstrate your point, you might want to know the answer to those questions before you ask them.

thunderkyss
09-09-2013, 03:36 PM
Then I guess nothing will.

Call me hard headed, but I'm still not convinced Kaepernick or Luck can be starters in this league.

I'm convinced Kaepernick can be a starter in this league.

2012Champs
09-09-2013, 03:40 PM
Just a hint for future reference - when asking questions in order to demonstrate your point, you might want to know the answer to those questions before you ask them.



haha thats a great point

badboy
09-09-2013, 04:24 PM
The trade deadline is somewhere around Halloween(week 8), so those injuries can't come to late in the season.I should have said later this season. The NFL's trade deadline is the Tuesday following the 6th week of the regular season, which typically falls mid-October.

TEXANRED
09-09-2013, 05:36 PM
Well he has played all 16 games 3 of the last 4 seasons. That answers your question.

See I am more of a glass half empty kind of guy. You say 3 of 4 and I say he has been hurt 3 of 6. We will see what happens this year.

speedfreek
09-09-2013, 08:52 PM
After seeing Chip Kelly's offense put up points against the skins,
and Kaepernic win games with SF and Wilson -- ditto with Seattle --
I just can't help but think what would the Texans look like with
Keenum running the Holgorsen more run balanced Air Raid he
ran in college.

I see all of these Oregon stats being shown on MNF, and Oregon
was not as fast or as productive (yards wise) as the Keenum cougars.

It would catch some teams by surprise to roll it out in the middle
of a game and use it intermittently with Kubiak's WCO.

I understand it is important for the young guys (Keenum and Yates)
to fully comprehend what Gary wants to do, but Gary needs to expand
his horizons. He's a good OC, but not the end-all be all of offensive
design.

Hopefully it's on his drawing board..

TJ

ArlingtonTexan
09-09-2013, 10:03 PM
I should have said later this season. The NFL's trade deadline is the Tuesday following the 6th week of the regular season, which typically falls mid-October.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795630/2013-14-nfl-key-dates

showing oct 29

gafftop
09-10-2013, 12:13 AM
Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.

Schaub's release is just too slow, arm too weak, and no chance to make unscheduled play. He has to go through a long windup to throw the ball downfield. He never was mobile but ever since injury he is even worse.
Is he that old? I have seen enough to know he will be no better than at the end last year. Matt is Matt. Not his fault. The Texan's fault for thinking anything more. Just my opinion. May not even get to playoffs this year. We need the Qb to be more than manager because of our D being just above average not dominating.

infantrycak
09-10-2013, 02:17 AM
Schaub's release is just too slow, arm too weak, and no chance to make unscheduled play. He has to go through a long windup to throw the ball downfield. He never was mobile but ever since injury he is even worse.
Is he that old? I have seen enough to know he will be no better than at the end last year. Matt is Matt. Not his fault. The Texan's fault for thinking anything more. Just my opinion. May not even get to playoffs this year. We need the Qb to be more than manager because of our D being just above average not dominating.

Appears you should spend less time agreeing with yourself and more time watching the game.

ChampionTexan
09-10-2013, 02:22 AM
I should have said later this season. The NFL's trade deadline is the Tuesday following the 6th week of the regular season, which typically falls mid-October.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795630/2013-14-nfl-key-dates

showing oct 29

Starting last season, the NFL and the NFLPA agreed to move the trade deadline to the Tuesday following week 8 (although last year, they had to extend it to Thursday because of hurricane Sandy).

Atl Cav
09-10-2013, 02:24 AM
Appears you should spend less time agreeing with yourself and more time watching the game.

Infantry, your statement is as funny as it is true. Well said.

gafftop
09-22-2013, 04:44 PM
Schaub's release is just too slow, arm too weak, and no chance to make unscheduled play. He has to go through a long windup to throw the ball downfield. He never was mobile but ever since injury he is even worse.
Is he that old? I have seen enough to know he will be no better than at the end last year. Matt is Matt. Not his fault. The Texan's fault for thinking anything more. Just my opinion. May not even get to playoffs this year. We need the Qb to be more than manager because of our D being just above average not dominating.

Matt is limiting us in ways you don't see. I am convinced GK would make different calls with someone else at QB.

gafftop
09-29-2013, 06:17 PM
Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.

This is reality. Only difference is MS does not even make smart decisions and now he may not not even be the best choice to get us into playoffs.

DocBar
09-29-2013, 06:35 PM
Appears you should spend less time agreeing with yourself and more time watching the game.And what do you think 2 weeks later? I've seen all I need to see.

pirbroke
09-29-2013, 06:42 PM
I wish the title of this thread was MS grabs early edge for 3 string backup because I cant take it anymore. Wilson running his A$$ off and Mat tripping over his own feet. Please coach make a change.

ChrisG
09-29-2013, 06:43 PM
Whats the worst thing a qb can do? Throw a pick 6, Schaub has 3 in 4 games. Keenum and TJ cant do any worse.

GuerillaBlack
09-29-2013, 06:52 PM
Team needs a spark and Case would give it. I have never seen AJ so upset with Schaub like he was when he was open in the back of the endzone but Schaub didn't set his feet and deliver. There were a couple of times today where he would make a quick throw on the run when he didn't have to. He wanted to look all badass after finally hitting a receiver in stride on that graham td, but then the real schaub started throwing the ball. Case needs to start.

Rey
09-29-2013, 07:36 PM
We need a QB with some swag.

Lmao

legacy_gt
10-07-2013, 02:14 AM
We need a QB with some swag.

Lmao

we really do. i'm tired of seeing schaub's long face. 9 interceptions in five games!!! wtf?

Trail.Blazr
10-07-2013, 11:07 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795630/2013-14-nfl-key-dates

showing oct 29

Maybe trade Schaub for Sam Gordon? :mancard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l06NGucUe6A

gafftop
10-07-2013, 09:42 PM
Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.



Posted before regular season started
Still feel EXACTLY the same

bOODRO87
10-07-2013, 09:49 PM
Well, actually...


you said it last week.

gafftop
10-07-2013, 10:34 PM
Well, actually...


you said it last week.

Original post page 40 near top. Did not remember I had reposted last week

infantrycak
10-07-2013, 11:08 PM
Original post page 40 near top. Did not remember I had reposted last week

How about you just stop reposting?

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 08:38 AM
Original post page 40 near top. Did not remember I had reposted last week

So what's the point? You want to make sure we know you're smarter than GK?

It's the popular opinion. Being right going against the grain is much more impressive. Stating the obvious proves nothing regardless how many times you re-post.

Especially about this, especially in regards to my opinion. I'd have benched Schaub after the pick 6 in Seattle & tried to win that game. Last week I would have made up my mind between Yates & Keenum, then designed the rest of the season around whoever I picked's strengths & weaknesses. Schaub would be the back-up. He would get an opportunity to get back on the field in the normal flow of the game the way a back-up would. Injury or benching.

He would understand that would be his only chance to ever "win" his job back. If he doesn't tear it up, not just mistake free, he's got to make plays. If not, he won't even be the back-up for the next game.

KA4Texan
10-08-2013, 08:45 AM
Maybe trade Schaub for Sam Gordon? :mancard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l06NGucUe6A

Still asking too much, at this point I don't think we could trade Schaub for a tic tac or even a liquorice jelly bean. :roast:

gafftop
10-08-2013, 09:18 AM
So what's the point? You want to make sure we know you're smarter than GK?

It's the popular opinion. Being right going against the grain is much more impressive. Stating the obvious proves nothing regardless how many times you re-post.

Especially about this, especially in regards to my opinion. I'd have benched Schaub after the pick 6 in Seattle & tried to win that game. Last week I would have made up my mind between Yates & Keenum, then designed the rest of the season around whoever I picked's strengths & weaknesses. Schaub would be the back-up. He would get an opportunity to get back on the field in the normal flow of the game the way a back-up would. Injury or benching.

He would understand that would be his only chance to ever "win" his job back. If he doesn't tear it up, not just mistake free, he's got to make plays. If not, he won't even be the back-up for the next game.

I would have made the change 4 weeks ago and made Keenum the starter not TJ. TJ is MS as far as mindset goes.
The writing was on the wall THEN. Schaub cannot make plays! You don't know this by now. Not MS's fault, just the way it is. With his QB skills now and his known weaknesses it is too much to expect him to make plays on a consistent basis.

thunderkyss
10-08-2013, 09:26 AM
I would have made the change 4 weeks ago and made Keenum the starter not TJ. TJ is MS as far as mindset goes.
The writing was on the wall THEN. Schaub cannot make plays! You don't know this by now. Not MS's fault, just the way it is. With his QB skills now and his known weaknesses it is too much to expect him to make plays on a consistent basis.

I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, never have been.

But, what you're saying isn't exactly true. Matt made plays in the 4th qtr against San Diego. He made plays in the 4th & OT qtr against Tennessee. While he didn't make plays, he looked good playing above average for the first half of the Seattle game.

He's not consistent at it, he's not prolific in that department. But to say he can't??????

Like I said, I understand the frustration that our current goal is to try to get Matt Schaub back to 2011 form & that wasn't great. But it is what it is & if he gets back on track we'll win the division.... & we'll see what happens in the play offs.

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 09:53 AM
I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, never have been.

But, what you're saying isn't exactly true. Matt made plays in the 4th qtr against San Diego. He made plays in the 4th & OT qtr against Tennessee. While he didn't make plays, he looked good playing above average for the first half of the Seattle game.

He's not consistent at it, he's not prolific in that department. But to say he can't??????

Like I said, I understand the frustration that our current goal is to try to get Matt Schaub back to 2011 form & that wasn't great. But it is what it is & if he gets back on track we'll win the division.... & we'll see what happens in the play offs.

I think we all know that ship has sailed.....last sunday's game was the absolute last thing that he could've had happen to him. That game, combined with the overall stretch he's on has taken pretty much all his confidence away....& everyone knows what happens when your confidence is gone...it usually doesn't come back. the little confidence he has left, is there b/c Gary keeps giving it to him. He's never getting back to 2011 form......you can just see it in his body language.....

He'll get the nod this week & i'll go ahead & predict it now, he won't throw another pick 6, but he'll be shaky throughout the game...you'll see alot of double clutching from him on the short stuff b/c he'll be 2nd guessing himself alot....

He's done....Done like a sausage link left on the BBQ pit too long.

gafftop
10-08-2013, 10:00 AM
I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, never have been.

But, what you're saying isn't exactly true. Matt made plays in the 4th qtr against San Diego. He made plays in the 4th & OT qtr against Tennessee. While he didn't make plays, he looked good playing above average for the first half of the Seattle game.

He's not consistent at it, he's not prolific in that department. But to say he can't??????

Like I said, I understand the frustration that our current goal is to try to get Matt Schaub back to 2011 form & that wasn't great. But it is what it is & if he gets back on track we'll win the division.... & we'll see what happens in the play offs.

Our definition of making plays is obviously different. Wilson made a play getting the first down at the end of the game on 4th down.

TK the bold is where we differ. I don't see Matt getting back to 2011 form. Getting back to 2011 form physically is not possible. It is not 2011 in our division anymore. Good possibility that 2011 MS in 2013 does not win division. Really doesn't matter because 2011 MS is gone.

You are right in saying "it is what it is" in that we have no control over anything.
Gk has that.

Mr teX
10-08-2013, 10:19 AM
Our definition of making plays is obviously different. Wilson made a play getting the first down at the end of the game on 4th down.

TK the bold is where we differ. I don't see Matt getting back to 2011 form. Getting back to 2011 form physically is not possible. It is not 2011 in our division anymore. Good possibility that 2011 MS in 2013 does not win division. Really doesn't matter because 2011 MS is gone.

You are right in saying "it is what it is" in that we have no control over anything.
Gk has that.

I agree at least with 90% of what you're saying here. people need to remember, this guy's been in the league for 10 years already. There's is a natural slippage due to father time alone. Obviously through injuries that can be accelerated and in his case there's definitely some of that.....

I just think that as of this very moment, his issue isn't physical...despite what CnD says & has been saying. He's had a weak arm since we've had him here. He's been injured more than a few times since he's been here. Just through deductive reasoning you have to ask the question "why all of a sudden is his weak arm & physical limitations giving him issues that he was able to overcome earlier in his career?" It just doesn't make sense that it would become an issue 10 years into his career...especially without him having any significant arm issues.

Maybe his natural abilities were right on the floor of the "NFL physical talents" cut line & the little bit of slippage due to father time put him below the cut line....

Or maybe he's been in decline confidence wise since that 1st NE game & he finally bottomed out this year...this is what i believe...