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Texans_Chick
07-26-2013, 12:19 PM
Audibles always a question by fans and some media. So I asked Schaub/Myers about them yesterday. Tried to get them to explain it better to fans but they were reluctant not to share stuff that could give opponents an advantage.

If you could see their answers as oppose to just a transcript, you could see they think it is a dumb fan *issue*. Myers in particular thought I was trying to trick him with my question.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/changing-plays-at-the-line-matt-schaub-chris-myers-talk-audibles/

The Texans had issues on offense last year. That Matt Schaub didn't have "enough authority" at the line I do not think is an issue.

Brisco_County
07-26-2013, 12:32 PM
So it appears that they're saying:

1) Matt doesn't have to audible as much, because he has built-in options post snap.

2) Instead of the conventional "audible," they communicate adjustments at the line in other ways that are subtle and hopefully unnoticeable.

Just a thought: I bet Sage Rosenfels and Vonta Leach taught their teams how to notice.

Rey
07-26-2013, 12:36 PM
"He understands that. He knows that," Smith said. "And he does have to play better in those situations for us to take our team to the next level." Smith also expressed confidence in Schaub's overall play, saying he "has the ability to take on even more responsibilities." Schaub had the look of a player who peaked last season, so putting more on his plate might not be the Texans' best strategy.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/16/matt-schaub


I wish I could find the entire transcript, but our audibles are more subtle because they aren't as complex...

Rick smith did and interview and talked about Matt being allowed to do more this year.

I doubt they'd give much detail on their audibles, but you should ask them if Matt sees a mismatch that he wants to take advantage of if he will call audibles to completely change plays to do so.

Hopefully Matt will be allowed to do that some this year.

Rey
07-26-2013, 12:43 PM
So it appears that they're saying:

1) Matt doesn't have to audible as much, because he has built-in options post snap.

2) Instead of the conventional "audible," they communicate adjustments at the line in other ways that are subtle and hopefully unnoticeable.

Just a thought: I bet Sage Rosenfels and Vonta Leach taught their teams how to notice.

Exactly.

Id like for kubiak to allow Matt to go completely off the grid occasionally if he sees something he thinks we can exploit.

ObsiWan
07-26-2013, 01:07 PM
I found this interesting
...to me anyway...

Myers: ďIím not going to explain how we handle audibling at the line, but nice try there. Thatís the way it works in the NFL. Some teams and some quarterbacks are given that opportunity because there teams offenses are based upon them going to the line and having six different plays possible then they just give the line and the rest of offense what they are going to do. In our scheme, Matt doesnít necessarily have to do that all the time. You guys may not notice, but we audible a lot. You guys may not notice and talk about it all the time because you guys donít notice it. Itís one of the things that come with the territory. Itís a smooth transition for us with the zone blocking scheme and with the rollouts that we have that Mattís been able to run. We donít have to audible as much because we have the potential for other things to happen. Our audibles arenít the same as other teams, but we get it done just as much as they do. Everyone talking about how they need to put more pressure on Matt and how he needs to take on more of the offense. Itís there, you guys just donít notice.Ē

Translation:
Look you goofball, just because Matt doesn't flap his arms like a large-forehead crane trying to take off or point at one defensive guy or the other like some school kid ratting out his classmates to avoid detention doesn't mean we don't call audibles. W
e're smoother than that.
And we like it that way.
Did it ever occur to you people that if you can't tell we've changed the play, then maybe, just maybe, the defense doesn't know we changed the play either. Which means, just possibly, they're setting up to try and stop the wrong thing. Yaay us!

...next question.

ObsiWan
07-26-2013, 01:08 PM
Exactly.

Id like for kubiak to allow Matt to go completely off the grid occasionally if he sees something he thinks we can exploit.

You're assuming that doesn't ever happen.
How can you tell it doesn't?

b0ng
07-26-2013, 01:25 PM
So it appears that they're saying:

Just a thought: I bet Sage Rosenfels and Vonta Leach taught their teams how to notice.

Vonta's teachings didn't do much for em the second time around.

Rey
07-26-2013, 01:28 PM
You're assuming that doesn't ever happen.
How can you tell it doesn't?

Because Kubiak has said as much. Seth Payne, while not currently with the Texans has said the same thing. And if you actually read the quotes TC got, they are saying the same thing as well. Matt Schaub has been on the radio before and talked about their audibles. Kubiak has talked about their audibles. I am familiar with this scheme and have a ball park idea on their audible system. Rick Smith was on the radio the other day and he talked about "giving Matt more responsiblity" at the LOS or something like that...

I don't think you or a lot of people understand how their audibles work.

thunderkyss
07-26-2013, 01:39 PM
Audibles always a question by fans and some media.

I'm sorry, I already put this in another thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2185289&postcount=76). Good work, definitely something the fans want to know about though.

ObsiWan
07-26-2013, 01:39 PM
Because Kubiak has said as much.

I don't think you or a lot of people understand how their audibles work.

From the little the (the Texans) will open up and say, our audibles are basically spins off the existing (planned) play. As an example, I think if the planned play is a wide run - say double TE, single RB formation - and Schaub sees nine in the box, he may audible to one of the TEs peel off (instead of sustaining) his block and find an open area for a 10-12 yd pass. He still goes thru with the run-like play but instead of handing off, keeps the ball and hits the open TE.

That change of play is subtle.

Now if you want Kubiak to take that same call (double TEs, single RB, run right) and audible to something like four wides (that "off the grid enough for ya?), meaning the two TEs pretend they're WRs, I doubt that's gonna happen.

I must admit - depending on which TEs are in the game - it might be interesting to see...

disaacks3
07-26-2013, 01:42 PM
OK, I'm confused...

You guys may not notice, but we audible a lot. You guys may not notice and talk about it all the time because you guys donít notice it. Itís one of the things that come with the territory. Itís a smooth transition for us with the zone blocking scheme and with the rollouts that we have that Mattís been able to run. We donít have to audible as much because we have the potential for other things to happen. Our audibles arenít the same as other teams, but we get it done just as much as they do.

So, which is it? Audible a LOT, or you don't have to do it as much due to your post-snap options?

thunderkyss
07-26-2013, 01:46 PM
I don't know that we need to add another dynamic to our offense... not like that. The whole point, I think, of wanting us to audible more is to not be caught in a situation running a play that has no chance of working, or to punk the other team & make them look bad.

But even the teams with QBs who flap their arms & gyrate eventually run into a play that "looks" like it had no chance to succeed & we punk everybody.

We like to give Kubiak the credit for getting our guys wide open, especially guys like Kevin Walter. Maybe that was one of those instances that Matt saw something, audibled & busted a big gain.

Rey
07-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Now if you want Kubiak to take that same call (double TEs, single RB, run right) and audible to something like four wides (that "off the grid enough for ya?), meaning the two TEs pretend they're WRs, I doubt that's gonna happen.


I'm not talking about anything exotic like that.

I'm talking about something like Matt walking up to the LOS....He sees the safety cheating over, or he notices something that tips him off to what the defense is getting ready to do.

Him giving an easy, easy call or a relax call or whatever they do to let them know a change is coming...And then him setting up the the route of the guy he wants to go to in order to exploit what he's just seen. It could be anything from being tipped off of what coverage or blitz is coming or seeing that they substituted #?? and he's covering someone he doesn't think he can hold.

You can subtly make a call like that on occasion, but sometimes you're going to have to back out...go to shotgun...move your RB...Give a call to the O-line...and then let the receivers know what you want them to do with a signal. And sometimes if there isn't a signal for it, you might have to yell out a call and they might have to come in closer to hear you and then go back and get set.

The Texans don't have this super secret audible system where they are making spur of the moment wholesale changes with Matt Schaub tapping the side of his helmet two times and calling out Sally.

Rey
07-26-2013, 01:55 PM
I don't know that we need to add another dynamic to our offense... not like that. The whole point, I think, of wanting us to audible more is to not be caught in a situation running a play that has no chance of working, or to punk the other team & make them look bad.

But even the teams with QBs who flap their arms & gyrate eventually run into a play that "looks" like it had no chance to succeed & we punk everybody.

We like to give Kubiak the credit for getting our guys wide open, especially guys like Kevin Walter. Maybe that was one of those instances that Matt saw something, audibled & busted a big gain.

TK, you sound like you are saying good enough is good enough.

Screw that.

Our goal should be set at being the best offense in the league and to be unstoppable by anyone. I don't care that we are "one of the best". Well I do care...and that is nice...But if you can do something that makes you even better, why not do it?

Why not be better than the best teams offensively? Why not have something that helps not have the offensive funks we found ourselves in at times last year?

I'm going to trust what Rick said about Matt having more on his plate this year. Even if he's not just going wild with audibles...I think a little more freedom to go off the grid would help him out.

As for that last part, I highly doubt it. If Matt was making those kinds of audibles you'd have teammates and coaches raving about how Matt is making these changes and making all these big plays happening. Plus that doesn't even jive with anything that's been said on the subject from the team.

badboy
07-26-2013, 01:59 PM
Fans do not understand. They cannot understand, but if they did they would have to kill us.

Rey
07-26-2013, 02:04 PM
OK, I'm confused...



So, which is it? Audible a LOT, or you don't have to do it as much due to your post-snap options?


He's double talking because their audibles aren't real audibles.

The audibles are likely pre-determined during the week leading to the game and Matt is just doing basic calls and audibles based on the coaches giving him direct instructions. "If we are running this play or we are in this formation and you get this look, run this"

It's more of a check list.

That's why the calls are subtle and don't require much. Because everyone on the offense knows what's coming so they are just waiting on the official word from Matt.

Which is not a terrible thing. But I do think he should have a little more freedom to completely change a play sometimes.

Kubiak probably thinks it's not necessary though. And he could be right.

thunderkyss
07-26-2013, 02:09 PM
TK, you sound like you are saying good enough is good enough.


There are plenty of teams out there that do the off the grid audible stuff & they haven't won as many games as we have last year, & their offenses weren't as prolific as ours has been for a while now.

So there's no guarantee that changing our audible system will make us any better. Only different.

I'd much rather be able to line up & say, "Hey, we're going to run the ball & you can't stop us." Then pick up the yard, the 3 yards, the 5 yards that we need.

I'm all for getting better, just don't think this is the way we should try.

Rey
07-26-2013, 02:18 PM
There are plenty of teams out there that do the off the grid audible stuff & they haven't won as many games as we have last year

What?

Slow down and think about what you're saying before just looking to disagree.


If I take a group of scrubs and allow them to make crazy audibles that doesn't mean that they are going to all of a sudden become beasts.

If I take the Saints and allow Drew Brees to call his own audibles at times, there's a good chance the offense might improve some.

Rey
07-26-2013, 02:23 PM
I'd much rather be able to line up & say, "Hey, we're going to run the ball & you can't stop us." Then pick up the yard, the 3 yards, the 5 yards that we need.


That's one of those things that sound nice, but isn't realistic for us at all.

This is the NFL. If a team of equal or greater talent knows you are running the ball you and you indeed run the ball, you're going to wish they hadn't known you were running it.

If we face a good defensive football team we'll need all the help we can get. We are not going to line up through out the play-offs and in the superbowl and run the ball down teams throats that know we're running the ball. No one does that any more. That ain't happening.

thunderkyss
07-26-2013, 02:41 PM
What?

Slow down and think about what you're saying before just looking to disagree.



We struggle with the 2 minute drill.

ObsiWan
07-26-2013, 03:23 PM
Him giving an easy, easy call or a relax call or whatever they do to let them know a change is coming...And then him setting up the the route of the guy he wants to go to in order to exploit what he's just seen. It could be anything from being tipped off of what coverage or blitz is coming or seeing that they substituted #?? and he's covering someone he doesn't think he can hold.

You can subtly make a call like that on occasion, but sometimes you're going to have to back out...go to shotgun...move your RB...Give a call to the O-line...and then let the receivers know what you want them to do with a signal. And sometimes if there isn't a signal for it, you might have to yell out a call and they might have to come in closer to hear you and then go back and get set.


Again, my problem with that approach is it alerts the defense. The safety you were planning to exploit stops cheating because he sees (hears?) you changing the play and suspects (knows?) "he's been made" (as they say on the cop shows) and stops "cheating".

The guy (#??) who subbed in temporarily now knows that he's been targeted for exploitation. And so do his teammates so he get's a little help.

No, I like the stealth approach. If we can't see the play alteration, then maybe the defense can't either.

Personally, I think Peyton and Brady do the same thing. All that flapping and pointing is done every dang play so that the D cannot tell when they're REALLY changing the play vs. when they're just putting on a show.

So what's the diff at the end of the day. ...other than being more demonstrative to the great, unwashed masses of fandom (us).

eriadoc
07-26-2013, 03:24 PM
Here's my take on audibles: When you have a QB as experienced as Schaub, at no point should he ever be required to run a play that he thinks is going to fail before he runs it. He's the one out there running the show, so if he feels like PLAY X gives them a better chance than PLAY Z VARIANT A, B, or C, then he should run PLAY X.

JMO.

thunderkyss
07-27-2013, 11:49 AM
Audibles always a question by fans and some media.


TC, I do appreciate you asking the question.

Do you think you can ask Andre, OD &/or maybe Kubiak what they think about under thrown balls? Does it make the ball easier to field? Do they prefer under thrown balls vs leading a receiver?

Things like that.

Surreal McCoy
07-29-2013, 09:15 AM
Audibles always a question by fans and some media. So I asked Schaub/Myers about them yesterday. Tried to get them to explain it better to fans but they were reluctant not to share stuff that could give opponents an advantage.

If you could see their answers as oppose to just a transcript, you could see they think it is a dumb fan *issue*. Myers in particular thought I was trying to trick him with my question.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/changing-plays-at-the-line-matt-schaub-chris-myers-talk-audibles/

The Texans had issues on offense last year. That Matt Schaub didn't have "enough authority" at the line I do not think is an issue.

Err. Everyone knows Schaub is not allowed to audible. C'mon, Steph!

steelbtexan
07-29-2013, 09:32 AM
Err. Everyone knows Schaub is not allowed to audible. C'mon, Steph!

I always thought Matt had the ability to change the play at the LOS. I do believe if a run plays is called say to the right he could change the play to a run to the left. But not to a pass play...

Oh well, everything is hunky dory, Super Bowl here we come. Johnny Football is gonna win a NC fur dem Aggies. He's a god. Unless he's out there partying with dem damned ole Longhorns. Or hanging out with the stars at the Laker games. He should be hangin out with us at the Dixie Chicken countin sheep, buildin bondfires/buildings etc...


I digress......

infantrycak
07-29-2013, 09:47 AM
I always thought Matt had the ability to change the play at the LOS. I do believe if a run plays is called say to the right he could change the play to a run to the left. But not to a pass play...

Despite every Texan assertion to the contrary.

Rey
07-29-2013, 10:17 AM
So what's the diff at the end of the day. ...other than being more demonstrative to the great, unwashed masses of fandom (us).

What I'm saying is what you're saying makes 0 sense.....to me at least...

You think the defense doesn't know when calls are being made?

More subtle to you doesn't mean more subtle to the players on the field.

You're assuming a lot. Nowhere has any player or coach ever said "we call audibles, but we just try to do it stealthily as to not alert the defense"...They won't say that because it doesn't make any functional sense.

I don't understand what is wrong with saying Matt calls audibles, but not as freely or as often as some other QB's may call them. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Like Meyers said, the offense is designed so that they don't have to.

Rey
07-29-2013, 10:24 AM
We struggle with the 2 minute drill.

I don't even know if that's true, but if it is, maybe it's because we don't have a lot of practice running a fast paced offense where the QB thinks independently on the fly.

ObsiWan
07-29-2013, 05:16 PM
What I'm saying is what you're saying makes 0 sense.....to me at least...

You think the defense doesn't know when calls are being made?

More subtle to you doesn't mean more subtle to the players on the field.

You're assuming a lot. Nowhere has any player or coach ever said "we call audibles, but we just try to do it stealthily as to not alert the defense"...They won't say that because it doesn't make any functional sense.

I don't understand what is wrong with saying Matt calls audibles, but not as freely or as often as some other QB's may call them. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Like Meyers said, the offense is designed so that they don't have to.

It is quite possible that if done right, the defense has no clue that you've decided to run left rather than right or go to a slant pass as opposed to a stretch run. The code could be in the signals; it could be as simple as "if I start the count with 'red' its a pass; if I start with 'green' its a run... and so forth.

For example, the call in the huddle could have been "stretch run left" but Matt gets to the line, sees something to exploit and says "Red! blah, blah, blah"... The 'Red' call tells all our guys that he's changed the play to a pass and the rest of the blah, blah, blah is whatever code is necessary to alert the primary receiver he's now hot and is expected to run a slant or Go or Out or whatever...

The play just got completely re-done with no formation shifting or Peyton-esque arm-waiving or Tom Brady pointing or anything. And yeah, it's totally possible the defense doesn't know the play has been changed.