PDA

View Full Version : One post that has everything about Schaub


Texans_Chick
07-21-2013, 01:36 PM
OK, I did this post called, "The Matt Schaub Compendium" (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2013/03/the-matt-schaub-compendium/) to talk about Schaub's 2012 in the context of his entire career.

Today's post over at the new Ultimate Texans location is entitled, "On Matt Schaub, elite quarterbacks, QB rankings, clutch and the ĎSchaubnadoí" (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/on-matt-schaub-elite-quarterbacks-qb-rankings-clutch-and-the-schaubnado/)

The first post was more of a focus on the numbers.

The second post is more putting Schaub in the context of quarterback debate stuff that tends to go on in July when there is no real news.

Concepts like elite, quarterback rankings, and does clutch even exist as a reproducible skill?

If you are of the sort who thinks, "No way the Texans can win the Super Bowl with Schaub," there's a few data points in there that are the equivalent of a hug.

And once again, thanks to all who click on this link and share it on social networks. The more popular my stuff is at the Chronicle while hosted at that location, the more likely the powers that be will continue to let me do my thing.

:swatter:

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2013, 02:31 PM
Steph, this has to be up there with one of your best efforts. It has covered all aspects of the "elite" story and of the Matt Schaub story while presenting no apparent biases. Thanks for another great read.


This quote seems to reflect one of my main long-standing concerns (everyone here is aware of my more acute concerns regarding his foot) with regard to a QB type such as Schaub:

There are some quarterbacks who can win, despite having less than ideal offensive lines, a parade of different offensive players around them, bad running games, bad defenses. And they have done it over many years.

With all of Schaub's known limitations, we have always had to worry about ALL other aspects of the team to be "clicking" almost perfectly for a good outcome. We are forever concentrating on drafting and dealing to try to avoid ANY weaknesses on D or O. When you have that one, strong, consistent QB, it makes it so much more simple to deal with easier-to-"plug-in interchangeable" positions in numbers, doing so with non-elite players, than forever year-to-year being forced to keep your team "together" by seeking a myriad of strong players at virtually every other position.

Again, great article, Steph.

Nawzer
07-21-2013, 03:51 PM
Very well researched article. I still don't like Schaub, but I acknowledge that he was not the sole reason for our dramatic crash at the end of the season. I still think Kubiak is the biggest problem we have on this team. If he doesn't change the offense to allow for more dynamism then I think we're doomed to repeat last year's results. Secondly, the defense has to play better and not give up big plays. Unfortunately, I don't think this defense will be very good as there are critical holes everywhere. I'm still not convinced Cushing will be as effective and we don't have another quality ILB next to him. Our OLBs don't give me any confidence and we have Earl Mitchell as the NT. Of course Ed Reed is a huge question mark and it's looking more and more like that the FO screwed up. Anyway, Schaub can have the best year of his career this year, but it won't matter if the whole team doesn't step up.

the wonger need food
07-21-2013, 04:08 PM
Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....

Does he make players around him better???

In Schaub's case the answer is a resounding 'NO'. He is a weak link on the offense that has to be compensated for by great players that bail him out. Good NFL QB's have the reverse effect. They make plays off-schedule, improvise and instill confidence into the offensive unit. Schaub accomplishes none of the above and counts on his teammates to make him look adequate.

paycheck71
07-21-2013, 04:14 PM
Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....



I'm sorry, but LOL!

paycheck71
07-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Just to add to the previous post, I'd like to see all those QB scouting reports with one question and a Y/N checkbox.

I'm not remotely qualified to evaluate QB's, but even I understand that having a subjective, non-measurable "does he make his teammates better?" as the only, or even a major evaluation category is kind of silly.

amazing80
07-21-2013, 08:24 PM
All the yards in the world won't convince me Schaub is any good, his TD to INT ratio speaks volumes, not to mention the eye test when you watch him. BUT I am a realist and understand he is our BEST option as of now. But we need to figure out our future FAST.

steelbtexan
07-21-2013, 08:37 PM
All the yards in the world won't convince me Schaub is any good, his TD to INT ratio speaks volumes, not to mention the eye test when you watch him. BUT I am a realist and understand he is our BEST option as of now. But we need to figure out our future FAST.

^^^^
This

But I'm not sure if Gary's system restricts Schaub's ability to audible etc... causing Schaub to look worse than he is?

I do think Schaub is damaged goods and Gary's playcalling tries to mask Schaub's deficiencies.

Texans_Chick
07-21-2013, 08:58 PM
Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....

Does he make players around him better???

In Schaub's case the answer is a resounding 'NO'. He is a weak link on the offense that has to be compensated for by great players that bail him out. Good NFL QB's have the reverse effect. They make plays off-schedule, improvise and instill confidence into the offensive unit. Schaub accomplishes none of the above and counts on his teammates to make him look adequate.


OTOH, last year the Texans won 12 regular season games with rotation at Oline. Most teams with such issues at guard, tackle aren't winning many games.
There's exactly one high pick on the Oline, and most stat people believe a big part of low sack stats are on the QB.

Most of the high picks for the Texans have been on the defensive side of the ball. Basically, Scahub over years has run an offense of Andre Johnson, Duane Brown and an island of misfit toys that weren't draft day darlings.

Given they've had an above average offense for most of Schaub's years, I'm thinking a case can be made that he causes others to elevate their games.

You can only do so much bailing by great players. Ask Larry Fitzgerald how hard it is to make a difference if you don't have a guy who can get you the ball. I think he'd kill for a QB as good as Schaub.

In other words, I'm not saying elitey but true elitety rare. Most fanbases are sore with aspects of their QBs game--just normal strengths/weaknesses things and that QB play is so spotlighted in losses.

Texans_Chick
07-21-2013, 09:03 PM
All the yards in the world won't convince me Schaub is any good, his TD to INT ratio speaks volumes, not to mention the eye test when you watch him. BUT I am a realist and understand he is our BEST option as of now. But we need to figure out our future FAST.

This last draft not ideal for QBs.

The good news is that if you were developing a QB from scratch, you could do worse than Kubiak as coach.

Look around league at all the teams that trade for promising QBs and fail. I think Schaub is the only modern trade that has resulted in a +4000 yard paaser.

ATXtexanfan
07-21-2013, 09:14 PM
I still cant believe we extended schaub BEFORE last season.

thunderkyss
07-21-2013, 09:24 PM
Look around league at all the teams that trade for promising QBs and fail. I think Schaub is the only modern trade that has resulted in a +4000 yard paaser.

again & again & again.

ChampionTexan
07-21-2013, 10:00 PM
Look around league at all the teams that trade for promising QBs and fail. I think Schaub is the only modern trade that has resulted in a +4000 yard paaser.

Not that it really undermines your argument, but Palmer had over 4,000 (barely) for the Raiders last season.

the wonger need food
07-21-2013, 11:00 PM
OTOH, last year the Texans won 12 regular season games with rotation at Oline. Most teams with such issues at guard, tackle aren't winning many games.
There's exactly one high pick on the Oline, and most stat people believe a big part of low sack stats are on the QB.

Most of the high picks for the Texans have been on the defensive side of the ball. Basically, Scahub over years has run an offense of Andre Johnson, Duane Brown and an island of misfit toys that weren't draft day darlings.

Given they've had an above average offense for most of Schaub's years, I'm thinking a case can be made that he causes others to elevate their games.

You can only do so much bailing by great players. Ask Larry Fitzgerald how hard it is to make a difference if you don't have a guy who can get you the ball. I think he'd kill for a QB as good as Schaub.

In other words, I'm not saying elitey but true elitety rare. Most fanbases are sore with aspects of their QBs game--just normal strengths/weaknesses things and that QB play is so spotlighted in losses.


Schaub has had plenty of talent around him, misfit or not. Owen Daniels, Arian, Myers, Leach, Briseil, Winston, Dreessen... all very good players that a great QB could elevate(ed) to an even higher level.

Look at Andrew Luck winning a ton of games with a horrible o-line. He made Vick Ballard, TY Hilton, Lavon Brazil and Dwayne Allen borderline All Pros because he made them better.

Players in the Houston offense have to succeed in spite of their QB. Andre Johnson doesn't score TD's because he has to slow down and wait for the defense on every pass. He can't score in the red zone because his QB doesn't have the touch to take advantage of his height/physicality/vertical.

I agree that Schaub is serviceable and isn't going to necessarily lose a lot of games for his team, but he's not gonna win many on his own either. He may be capable of getting hot at the end of the year and help get this team to a Super Bowl, but the stars will need to align perfectly with the defense playing well, few injuries, good game planning and good old fashion luck. However, he is never going to put a team on his back and take them there like the great ones do.

The most concerning thing i saw last year was his shakiness in the pocket, especially toward the end of the season. He looked like David Carr on way too many plays and just withered under pressure instead of trying to make a special play. If a play gets off schedule it is over. If down/distance gets out of whack or there's a penalty the drive is over. Schaub just doesn't possess any "playmaker" skills that good QB's need to be successful when it counts.

Texans_Chick
07-21-2013, 11:45 PM
I still cant believe we extended schaub BEFORE last season.

Why? Given QB contracts done after his, the value wasn't terrible. Arguably, it's better than most recent contracts. See e.g. Tony Romo pre-back surgery contract. Even horrible QBs get paid. Just supply demand.

Assume the Texans finished the season exactly the same but didn't work on Schaub's contract until after the season. Would it be less? Nope. Maybe more given that there are 1 not many quality QBs 2 no plan B 3 no plan B that know the Texans offense right now during Andre Johnson's window 4 Recent QB contracts fat, getting fatter.

Not a terrible contract. You're locked in short term but you want that anyway until better draft classes/options emerge. Can't look at the headline numbers and terms of the contract, just the timeframe where you are economically locked in.

Both prospectively and retrospectively I have no issues with the Schaub contract. Just a risk/reward, supply/demand decision.

steelbtexan
07-22-2013, 12:06 AM
Why? Given QB contracts done after his, the value wasn't terrible. Arguably, it's better than most recent contracts. See e.g. Tony Romo pre-back surgery contract. Even horrible QBs get paid. Just supply demand.

Assume the Texans finished the season exactly the same but didn't work on Schaub's contract until after the season. Would it be less? Nope. Maybe more given that there are 1 not many quality QBs 2 no plan B 3 no plan B that know the Texans offense right now during Andre Johnson's window 4 Recent QB contracts fat, getting fatter.

Not a terrible contract. You're locked in short term but you want that anyway until better draft classes/options emerge. Can't look at the headline numbers and terms of the contract, just the timeframe where you are economically locked in.

Both prospectively and retrospectively I have no issues with the Schaub contract. Just a risk/reward, supply/demand decision.

Disagree

Schaub is damaged goods. IMHO

Because of signing him to that contract they are stuck with him and will be letting 2 yrs of their already closing window slip away.

I dont care about other QB options. They should've let the season play out. You know, like great GM's like Newsome do. If Schaub continues to play late in the season at the putrid levels of last yr then whoever's decision it was to extend Scchaub should be fired. 16 qtrs and 1 offensive TD with HFA on the line in todays NFL = LOL.


BTW, great article.

Texans_Chick
07-22-2013, 12:57 AM
Disagree

Schaub is damaged goods. IMHO

Because of signing him to that contract they are stuck with him and will be letting 2 yrs of their already closing window slip away.

I dont care about other QB options. They should've let the season play out. You know, like great GM's like Newsome do. If Schaub continues to play late in the season at the putrid levels of last yr then whoever's decision it was to extend Scchaub should be fired. 16 qtrs and 1 offensive TD with HFA on the line in todays NFL = LOL.


BTW, great article.

Thank you. Newsome wanted a deal prior to last season. Didn't. Got worse deal.

Yes, Ravens won a SB but Flacco had a terrible regular season. Worse than Schaub's. Maybe the SB win, Caldwell helps grow confidence, but I wouldn't feel good about that contract at all. Flacco is a maddeningly, inconsistent QB to watch. Sometimes beautiful throws, sometime immobile Frankenflacco in pocket, not capable of basic bread and butter passes.

You have to look at alternatives if you are a GM because you live in the real world. Much of league has hot garbage at high price as their QB.

leebigeztx
07-22-2013, 01:58 AM
Steph, this has to be up there with one of your best efforts. It has covered all aspects of the "elite" story and of the Matt Schaub story while presenting no apparent biases. Thanks for another great read.


This quote seems to reflect one of my main long-standing concerns (everyone here is aware of my more acute concerns regarding his foot) with regard to a QB type such as Schaub:



With all of Schaub's known limitations, we have always had to worry about ALL other aspects of the team to be "clicking" almost perfectly for a good outcome. We are forever concentrating on drafting and dealing to try to avoid ANY weaknesses on D or O. When you have that one, strong, consistent QB, it makes it so much more simple to deal with easier-to-"plug-in interchangeable" positions in numbers, doing so with non-elite players, than forever year-to-year being forced to keep your team "together" by seeking a myriad of strong players at virtually every other position.

Again, great article, Steph.

See, this is me. I call into sirius and I've said this a million times. To me, a qb in todays game have to be about to compensate for what the team lacks. A team can't be built with a qb who needs everything humming to win. Just rattle off the last 10 superbowls winning qbs and u will find holes on those teams,but the qb made up for it. I'm with team building,but u can't hide ur qb. There will be 5 plays in a game that are solely made by the qb. I've seen too many times when the 5 plays were not made. So unless the defense turns into the 2000 ravens,the line morphs into the hogs,aj goes back 6 yrs,daniels turns to sharpe,and the other wr turns into aj part 2,I don't think u can win a superbowl with schaub.

Tailgate
07-22-2013, 09:44 AM
While Schaub has never been the "athletic" QB, I can't remember him looking as pudgy or out of shape as he did last season. At one point, I thought he was a new candidate for the BRO.

Not sure if this is accurate or not, or if it would even have to do with anything related... But I am hoping to see a Schaub that hit it hard in the gym this off season, something he was probably unable to last off season.

thunderkyss
07-22-2013, 10:10 AM
See, this is me. I call into sirius and I've said this a million times. To me, a qb in todays game have to be about to compensate for what the team lacks. A team can't be built with a qb who needs everything humming to win. Just rattle off the last 10 superbowls winning qbs and u will find holes on those teams,but the qb made up for it. I'm with team building,but u can't hide ur qb. There will be 5 plays in a game that are solely made by the qb. I've seen too many times when the 5 plays were not made. So unless the defense turns into the 2000 ravens,the line morphs into the hogs,aj goes back 6 yrs,daniels turns to sharpe,and the other wr turns into aj part 2,I don't think u can win a superbowl with schaub.

We won 13 games in 2012.


Are you telling me we had no holes on our team?

thunderkyss
07-22-2013, 10:12 AM
While Schaub has never been the "athletic" QB, I can't remember him looking as pudgy or out of shape as he did last season. At one point, I thought he was a new candidate for the BRO.

Not sure if this is accurate or not, or if it would even have to do with anything related... But I am hoping to see a Schaub that hit it hard in the gym this off season, something he was probably unable to last off season.

I can get on board this one.

Seeing how he lived in a Rascal for most of the offseason prior to 2012, should have been expected.

HOU-TEX
07-22-2013, 10:30 AM
We won 13 games in 2012.


Are you telling me we had no holes on our team?

Actually, we only won 12 games in 2012

thunderkyss
07-22-2013, 12:12 PM
Actually, we only won 12 games in 2012

Thank you.

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2013, 12:16 PM
Actually, we only won 12 games in 2012

I believe he was including the post-season.

HOU-TEX
07-22-2013, 12:18 PM
I believe he was including the post-season.

Which was in 2013. Har, har, gotcha

thunderkyss
07-22-2013, 12:33 PM
So, the question is still the same. Did we or did we not have holes on our team? Did Schaub compensate for our offensive deficiencies or not? Foster had a good season, but our run game wasn't as potent as it needed to be & our receivers catch rate (including Foster) took a giant step back.

Still, Matt threw for 4000 yards, basically with one WR.

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2013, 01:19 PM
Which was in 2013. Har, har, gotcha

:kubepalm:

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Which was in 2013. Har, har, gotcha

What about the PREVIOUS post-season?

:swatter:

HOU-TEX
07-22-2013, 02:08 PM
What about the PREVIOUS post-season?

:swatter:

Doh!

Nicely done

HouTx11
07-22-2013, 02:23 PM
Flacco may have had a somewhat sub-par season, but he got it done in the playoffs when it mattered. You have to give him credit for that, otherwise the alternative would be the unforgiveable here in H-town: crediting someone like Jacoby Jones for the SB ring (and yes he did play a part in it much to your dismay).

Lucky
07-22-2013, 03:25 PM
This last draft not ideal for QBs.

The good news is that if you were developing a QB from scratch, you could do worse than Kubiak as coach.

Look around league at all the teams that trade for promising QBs and fail. I think Schaub is the only modern trade that has resulted in a +4000 yard paaser.
I don't know of a QB that Kubiak has developed from scratch, but I would like to see him get the opportunity.

Are Young, Farve, and Trent Green not modern? If not I'm feeling very old.

Trent Green might be the best comparison to Schaub`s career thus far. He put up good stats and got the Chiefs into a couple of playoffs. Injuries led to a sharp decline in his play. We will see what turn Schaub's career takes.

bhsman
07-22-2013, 03:40 PM
Look at Andrew Luck winning a ton of games with a horrible o-line. He made Vick Ballard, TY Hilton, Lavon Brazil and Dwayne Allen borderline All Pros because he made them better.

Just want to point out that Luck also had Reggie Wayne to throw to, and even then the Colts were, what, 8-0 in games decided by a touchdown or less? Luck is legit but that team is due for some regression given how flukey they were.

thunderkyss
07-22-2013, 04:26 PM
Flacco may have had a somewhat sub-par season, but he got it done in the playoffs when it mattered. You have to give him credit for that, otherwise the alternative would be the unforgiveable here in H-town: crediting someone like Jacoby Jones for the SB ring (and yes he did play a part in it much to your dismay).

Go back & look how this started. The thought was thrown out there that Flacco is a better QB than Schaub & they used Flacco's play-off numbers as proof.

His play off numbers were better than Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady's, Peyton Mannings, & Drew Brees (since he didn't play). Are we going to say Flacco is better than those guys?

No.

Matt Schaub has consistently put up "elite" type numbers, Flacco hasn't. I think Schaub understands the game, his offenses, opposing defenses, & his team... more than Flacco does.

Remember back when there was a lot of noise coming out of Baltimore, how the defensive players were "relieved" that the offense will finally carry their own weight?

Ever remember anything like that in Houston?

I guarantee you, Flacco's offensive coordinator will come under fire within the next two years.

dream_team
07-22-2013, 04:37 PM
Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....

Does he make players around him better???

In Schaub's case the answer is a resounding 'NO'. He is a weak link on the offense that has to be compensated for by great players that bail him out. Good NFL QB's have the reverse effect. They make plays off-schedule, improvise and instill confidence into the offensive unit. Schaub accomplishes none of the above and counts on his teammates to make him look adequate.

I'm not saying Schaub does make the players around him better, but what's your reasoning for believing he doesn't do this? I don't see any evidence that back up this case.

On offense, we only have ONE big acquisition... and that was Andre Johnson. Sure, you can argue Duane is one too, but we all know he was a big reach at the end of the 1st round. So who gets credit for making 4th round pick OD, cheap FA Wade Smith, cheap trade Chris Myers, UDFA Arian Foster pro-bowlers? Who gets the credit for making Duane Brown the best LT in the game? Were all of these guys simply underrated and Rick Smith is brilliant? Does the coaching staff get all of the credit?

How about the players that left? Did they get significantly better since supposedly Matt Schaub has been bringing them down? Briesel got a big contract to leave, but just had a horrible season with the Raiders. Winston was regarded as one of the best RTs in the game, but was just cut by the Chiefs after one season. Kevin Walter's best seasons are easily with the Texans. David Andersen couldn't stick with another team after he left the Texans.

Then there's Jacoby Jones and Joel Dressen, whom have left for better QBs. Did their production go up? Not really, still about the same.

So here's my question... where's the proof he makes the players around him worse???

dream_team
07-22-2013, 04:45 PM
All the yards in the world won't convince me Schaub is any good, his TD to INT ratio speaks volumes, not to mention the eye test when you watch him. BUT I am a realist and understand he is our BEST option as of now. But we need to figure out our future FAST.

His TD:INT ratio isn't a good measure of how good a QB is. Everyone knows Kubiak is going to prefer trying to run the ball in the end zone.

Plus, his TD:INT ratio last season was still better than Luck, Stafford, Vick, Cutler, Romo, Cam, Dalton, and Eli. He was also only 2 picks worse than Flacco. Of all QBs last season that started more than 10 games, his TD:INT ratio is ranked 10th. Not that bad actually.

dream_team
07-22-2013, 04:53 PM
See, this is me. I call into sirius and I've said this a million times. To me, a qb in todays game have to be about to compensate for what the team lacks. A team can't be built with a qb who needs everything humming to win. Just rattle off the last 10 superbowls winning qbs and u will find holes on those teams,but the qb made up for it. I'm with team building,but u can't hide ur qb. There will be 5 plays in a game that are solely made by the qb. I've seen too many times when the 5 plays were not made. So unless the defense turns into the 2000 ravens,the line morphs into the hogs,aj goes back 6 yrs,daniels turns to sharpe,and the other wr turns into aj part 2,I don't think u can win a superbowl with schaub.

This is exactly what everyone was saying about Flacco before last season.

76Texan
07-22-2013, 06:30 PM
See, this is me. I call into sirius and I've said this a million times. To me, a qb in todays game have to be about to compensate for what the team lacks. A team can't be built with a qb who needs everything humming to win. Just rattle off the last 10 superbowls winning qbs and u will find holes on those teams,but the qb made up for it. I'm with team building,but u can't hide ur qb. There will be 5 plays in a game that are solely made by the qb. I've seen too many times when the 5 plays were not made. So unless the defense turns into the 2000 ravens,the line morphs into the hogs,aj goes back 6 yrs,daniels turns to sharpe,and the other wr turns into aj part 2,I don't think u can win a superbowl with schaub.

Big deal, I don't even need to dig deep.

Tell me why Brady couldn't win it this year.
Tell me why Peyton couldn't.
Tell me why Rodgers couldn't.
Tell me where Eli was.

thunderkyss
07-22-2013, 07:33 PM
Big deal, I don't even need to dig deep.

Tell me why Brady couldn't win it this year.
Tell me why Peyton couldn't.
Tell me why Rodgers couldn't.
Tell me where Eli was.


https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/24364_398922946398_2970597_n.jpg

Because Flacco is better than allz them btches.

ArTex
07-22-2013, 07:55 PM
Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....

Does he make players around him better???

In Schaub's case the answer is a resounding 'NO'. He is a weak link on the offense that has to be compensated for by great players that bail him out. Good NFL QB's have the reverse effect. They make plays off-schedule, improvise and instill confidence into the offensive unit. Schaub accomplishes none of the above and counts on his teammates to make him look adequate.

In games Andre Johnson misses, the Texans passing game still holds up relatively well, compared to other type flight wrs missing games.

This indicates:

- Schaub keeps the team going. He still makes due with what he has and isnt as reliant on star talent as it seems.

- Its all Kubiak's system. System coach with system QB who isnt given room to "improvise

Or A little of both. Schaub may or may not be decent on his own, but whats it matter if his improvising is reigned in and his defiences are masked? Schaub doesnt have Peyton Manninv pull to deviate into his own play style so itll always be kinda difficult to see the "raw Schaub" ability

Texans_Chick
07-22-2013, 09:16 PM
I don't know of a QB that Kubiak has developed from scratch, but I would like to see him get the opportunity.

Are Young, Farve, and Trent Green not modern? If not I'm feeling very old.

Trent Green might be the best comparison to Schaub`s career thus far. He put up good stats and got the Chiefs into a couple of playoffs. Injuries led to a sharp decline in his play. We will see what turn Schaub's career takes.

You are old.

:kubepalm:

But your larger point is well taken.

Ultimately we can all agree that there have been many more catastrophic failures with QB trades than even reasonable successes.

And a number of Kubiak QBs had best seasons with him...but also there's been some Orlovsky sort of ugh.

leebigeztx
07-23-2013, 04:00 AM
This is exactly what everyone was saying about Flacco before last season.

Flacco has won a playoff game every year he's been in the league. I will admit,up until 2011 vs the pats,he's had some clunkers. You can't compare flacco to schaub because flacco has great ability. When I say that I mean his physical ability can transcend plays. He can threaten every blade of grass on the field. He's not a physically restricted qb

thunderkyss
07-23-2013, 08:25 AM
Flacco has won a playoff game every year he's been in the league. I will admit,up until 2011 vs the pats,he's had some clunkers. You can't compare flacco to schaub because flacco has great ability. When I say that I mean his physical ability can transcend plays. He can threaten every blade of grass on the field. He's not a physically restricted qb

the QB position is 60/40 mental (or something like that), many QBs wash out in this league because they don't have the mental fortitude to get the job done, despite having the ability to "threaten every blade of grass."

He had a 66 QB rating against Philly, 55 against KC, 45 vs the Texans, 75 against Pittsburgh, 62 vs Pittsburgh, 76 against Denver, & a 62 against Cincinnati.... so he's put up some clunkers in 2012 (http://www.nfl.com/player/joeflacco/382/gamelogs) despite his physical ability.

Rey
07-23-2013, 09:33 AM
the QB position is 60/40 mental (or something like that), many QBs wash out in this league because they don't have the mental fortitude to get the job done, despite having the ability to "threaten every blade of grass."

He had a 66 QB rating against Philly, 55 against KC, 45 vs the Texans, 75 against Pittsburgh, 62 vs Pittsburgh, 76 against Denver, & a 62 against Cincinnati.... so he's put up some clunkers in 2012 (http://www.nfl.com/player/joeflacco/382/gamelogs) despite his physical ability.

I've been saying this since the beginning of time, but the system guys play in and who their coaches are matters.

Now, I don't know much about what Jim Caldwell does to make his players more productive, but I do know that when he took over for them last year Flacco seemed to play a whole lot better.

Yes the game involves a lot of mental ability, but coaches should still have systems that bring out the most in their players.

I don't think you can compare QB's without taking into account the system they are playing in and who they have coaching them. And sometimes good coaches make mistakes with guys. That's not to say that players don't deserve some of the blame for their own shortcomings, but the situation a guy gets put in can matter a whole lot.

Put a guy in position to succeed and he'll look a whole lot smarter.

thunderkyss
07-23-2013, 09:52 AM
Now, I don't know much about what Jim Caldwell does to make his players more productive, but I do know that when he took over for them last year Flacco seemed to play a whole lot better.


I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

Then in 2012, Cam Cameron wasn't good enough, the offense was stale.... this is the NFL, not for long league. We'll see how teams prepare for Caldwell & Flacco and see if they can keep up with what they started.

History says probably not. But Schaub & Kubiak will probably throw for 4000 yards and avg a 90 or better QB Rating while winning a bunch of games. If Schaub plays 16 games that is, & history says something about that as well.

ChampionTexan
07-23-2013, 10:09 AM
I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

Then in 2012, Cam Cameron wasn't good enough, the offense was stale.... this is the NFL, not for long league. We'll see how teams prepare for Caldwell & Flacco and see if they can keep up with what they started.

History says probably not. But Schaub & Kubiak will probably throw for 4000 yards and avg a 90 or better QB Rating while winning a bunch of games. If Schaub plays 16 games that is, & history says something about that as well.

This might be a little more compelling if Cam Cameron hadn't been the OC in Baltimore since the 2008 season - which coincidentally was Flacco's rookie year.

Texan_Bill
07-23-2013, 10:36 AM
See, this is me. I call into sirius and I've said this a million times. To me, a qb in todays game have to be about to compensate for what the team lacks. A team can't be built with a qb who needs everything humming to win. Just rattle off the last 10 superbowls winning qbs and u will find holes on those teams,but the qb made up for it. I'm with team building,but u can't hide ur qb. There will be 5 plays in a game that are solely made by the qb. I've seen too many times when the 5 plays were not made. So unless the defense turns into the 2000 ravens,the line morphs into the hogs,aj goes back 6 yrs,daniels turns to sharpe,and the other wr turns into aj part 2,I don't think u can win a superbowl with schaub.

I hope AJ doesn't go back 6 years. He only played in 9 games that season. :kitten:

Rey
07-23-2013, 11:00 AM
I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

Then in 2012, Cam Cameron wasn't good enough, the offense was stale.... this is the NFL, not for long league. We'll see how teams prepare for Caldwell & Flacco and see if they can keep up with what they started.

History says probably not. But Schaub & Kubiak will probably throw for 4000 yards and avg a 90 or better QB Rating while winning a bunch of games. If Schaub plays 16 games that is, & history says something about that as well.

Sounds like you are trying to rationalize being a Texans fan to me.

Whether or not Kubiak and Schaub keep trucking a long and Flacco and Caldwell flame out...Is not relevant at this point in time.

Caldwell and Flacco (even if just a spark; lust...and not full fledged love till death do they part) have won a superbowl. They've reached the peak. They've climbed that mountain and planted their flag.

Even if it ends in an ugly divorce they'll still have little Jr. that they can both be proud of.


This long, steady, good relationship that Kubiak and Schaub have means zilch to me if they don't win that ultimate prize.


What is the ultimate goal here? To have a team that can win a lot of games in the regular season and look pretty doing it? Or have a team that can win superbowls?

I'd rather be the Giants from the past 5 years than the Patriots.

deucetx
07-23-2013, 11:22 AM
So, the question is still the same. Did we or did we not have holes on our team? Did Schaub compensate for our offensive deficiencies or not? Foster had a good season, but our run game wasn't as potent as it needed to be & our receivers catch rate (including Foster) took a giant step back.

Still, Matt threw for 4000 yards, basically with one WR.

I'll take a stab at it and say, no, he didn't. I say it but still think he's capable of winning a Superbowl for us because I simply think he's the type of player that needs more tools around him versus otherwise. Plus how his contract is setup money wise he's not going anywhere for at least 2 more years so I find it all moot but we do need to talk about something until the season starts, heh.

If Schaub compensated we wouldn't have had such an offensive meltdown from week 14 on. We went nine quarters without an offensive touchdown while playing defenses that were no better than medicore including scoring 6 points at home against the Vikings. That is not really compensating for issues in other places. I think Schaub had a better game against the Pats in the end then some give him credit for though. I saw more strength in his passes that than normally. Yet even with that thought the play that hangs in my mind is when he breaks away from the rush and is completely clear yet throws the ball away instead of looking to make a play. .

Secondly, you seem too hung up on the 4000 yards but have to remember something. He got a chunk of that in two games against rather piss poor secondaries at that. To get 4k in passing you need to average about 250 per game. Other than those two games (Jaguars/Lions) Schaub was only averaging 226 yards per game so was not on track for another 4k. That's why I find that number last year a bit deceiving. He had 842 yards alone in those two games.

And not sure what you mean on catch percentages taking a giant step back. Some sites have this stat slightly different but generally they are usually no more than 1.0-2.0 off one another.

Top targets (30+ targets)

2012 - 72.3
2011 - 68.5
2010 - 70.6

So there wasn't any massive drop. Now did he lack targets? Yes, he did. Jones departing hit us there because at least he had three receivers compared to last year of having only 2 of them. But there were no massive changes in catch percentages except for the guys with less than 30 targets. So probably should say he lacked viable receiving threats.

Again, not saying Schaub is not a good QB because I think he is and solid enough to get the job done. But I have not seen him really improve anyone offensively or make them a bit more than they really are. In truth, how many QB's can we say make those around them better? I think we can probably count them on one hand with maybe an exception here and there.

In other words, we're looking to hard to make Schaub more than he is. He doesn't have to be a Drew Brees, Rodgers, Manning family member, Brady or whatever. Would love if he was but he doesn't need to be for us to win. I don't think Flacco makes anyone better around him and right now he's polishing his ring.

nero THE zero
07-23-2013, 11:32 AM
Thank you. Newsome wanted a deal prior to last season. Didn't. Got worse deal.

Yes, Ravens won a SB but Flacco had a terrible regular season. Worse than Schaub's. Maybe the SB win, Caldwell helps grow confidence, but I wouldn't feel good about that contract at all. Flacco is a maddeningly, inconsistent QB to watch. Sometimes beautiful throws, sometime immobile Frankenflacco in pocket, not capable of basic bread and butter passes.

You have to look at alternatives if you are a GM because you live in the real world. Much of league has hot garbage at high price as their QB.

This x100.

I'm not a huge Schaub fan and am 100% already on the draft-his-replacement-in-2014 bandwagon, but the Flacco deal is awful, awful, awful.

I just keep thinking back to his 48% 147YDS 1TD 2INT meltdown against us last year and wonder how many ulcers Ozzie got inking that deal with him. I mean, don't get me wrong, he had no choice, but, oy.

thunderkyss
07-23-2013, 12:13 PM
Whether or not Kubiak and Schaub keep trucking a long and Flacco and Caldwell flame out...Is not relevant at this point in time.

Caldwell and Flacco (even if just a spark; lust...and not full fledged love till death do they part) have won a superbowl. They've reached the peak. They've climbed that mountain and planted their flag.

Even if it ends in an ugly divorce they'll still have little Jr. that they can both be proud of.


My point is that we've heard the "Flacco's figured it out" thing before & he's always reverted back to inconsistent play. We spoke about Flacco like Christian Ponder, or Jake Locker. I bet that guy surfaces again in 2013, that's all I'm saying.

Right now, people are putting Flacco in the Eli, Ben QB tier. At the end of 2013, we might have him in the Dilfer, Johnson tier.

Rey
07-23-2013, 12:53 PM
My point is that we've heard the "Flacco's figured it out" thing before & he's always reverted back to inconsistent play. We spoke about Flacco like Christian Ponder, or Jake Locker. I bet that guy surfaces again in 2013, that's all I'm saying.

Right now, people are putting Flacco in the Eli, Ben QB tier. At the end of 2013, we might have him in the Dilfer, Johnson tier.

He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.

But my point is, that he's proven that when it matters most he can step it up through a tough stretch of games and help his team win.

Doesn't mean he'll do it every time, but we know he can.

I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.

And back to my original point about system...There's really 0 excuse for why he shouldn't be able to play well when it gets tough late in the year other than his own limitations or injuries. We know that this system works.

With Flacco, we don't know that his old system worked for him. We do know that his new system did.


Really there's no comparing the two at this point. Flacco has played well in a stretch of big games. Schaub hasn't. That's really the end of it right there.

Until Schaub can play well in tough games down the stretch then you can't put him on Flacco's level...IMO...

thunderkyss
07-23-2013, 01:02 PM
He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.


To get back on track, this is where we started.

I still think it's too early to tell with Caldwell. When Cam Cameron came on there was a big whupteedoo & to start 2011 "everyone" was excited about the "new" Ravens offense. There was a lot of talk about how the defense doesn't have to carry the team anymore.

The book on Flacco & Caldwell is still open.

Mr teX
07-23-2013, 01:53 PM
Only one thing actually matters when it comes to judging an NFL Quarterback's performance....

Does he make players around him better???

In Schaub's case the answer is a resounding 'NO'. He is a weak link on the offense that has to be compensated for by great players that bail him out. Good NFL QB's have the reverse effect. They make plays off-schedule, improvise and instill confidence into the offensive unit. Schaub accomplishes none of the above and counts on his teammates to make him look adequate.

This post is terrible. Qb's that are a "resounding" weak link don't take their teams to the playoffs & put up the consistent numbers he has over his tenure here in houston without having some kind of positive effect on the players around them. But ok, i'll bite.....

was Flacco making players around him better when their offense was trash and inconsistent all last season? trash and inconsistent enough to get a guy regarded around the NFL as an offensive guru fired late in the season....which is pretty much unheard of in the NFL?

Was Flacco making guys around him better when he was completing less than 60% of his passes mid way thru the season & we proceeded to dismantle him when he came to reliant?

Was he making players around him better when he kept failing to get past Pittsburgh in the playoffs....and then later the Pats?

Wake up...He got on a nice run & rode it all the way to the SB...and as we've seen numerous times in the superbowl era, that can happen to any decent to good qb....See Eli Manning.

& If there's a qb whoose WR's make him look good & he depends on them to make him look "adequate" as you say, it's Joe Flacco. How many times did we see him just throw the ball up for grabs in the playoffs to guys that really weren't open and his WR's went up & made plays for him? Either that or the defense had a brain fart and allowed him to get away with crap that would've otherwise been a dead play or TO. I can think of at least 4 of those type of plays that were critical to their playoff run last year.


& for all the "off schedule" play making you guys keep speaking of...well, there's a guy in Dallas who tries to do that all the time....For whatever reason though, he's still not considered an elite qb.

Mr teX
07-23-2013, 02:08 PM
He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.

But my point is, that he's proven that when it matters most he can step it up through a tough stretch of games and help his team win.

Doesn't mean he'll do it every time, but we know he can.

I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.

And back to my original point about system...There's really 0 excuse for why he shouldn't be able to play well when it gets tough late in the year other than his own limitations or injuries. We know that this system works.

With Flacco, we don't know that his old system worked for him. We do know that his new system did.


Really there's no comparing the two at this point. Flacco has played well in a stretch of big games. Schaub hasn't. That's really the end of it right there.

Until Schaub can play well in tough games down the stretch then you can't put him on Flacco's level...IMO...

Flacco wasn't exactly lighting it up in tough games down the stretch until the last 2 years...i seem to recall lots of those Pittsburgh games his play was putrid to downright awful...He needed alot of seasoning to get to the point he got to last year......and even then it still threatened to not be enough.

Schaub and the Texans team as a whole just got to the point Flacco was drafted into and has been at his entire career lets at least give him a real opportunity.

Rey
07-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Flacco wasn't exactly lighting it up in tough games down the stretch until the last 2 years...

I don't know if you care if I respond or not, but I can't talk about this stuff with you if you aren't reading what I wrote.

Rey
07-23-2013, 02:54 PM
The book on Flacco & Caldwell is still open.

I don't understand what point you're making with that though.

They've already won a superbowl.

The book still being open means it can go positively or negatively from this point. And what I'm saying is that even if it all goes to hell, they've already accomplished the ultimate together. That can't be taken away.

If they do more positive things together that just adds to their legacy.

Mr teX
07-23-2013, 03:12 PM
I don't know if you care if I respond or not, but I can't talk about this stuff with you if you aren't reading what I wrote.

I am reading what you wrote...& for the most part i usually agree with you, i just don't agree that the 2 still can't be compared is all. Flacco winning a SB ring doesn't change my opinion of him as a qb. I need to see him duplicate what he did before i consider him any better than just a good qb. It doesn't have to be a SB win, but at least another SB appearance where he is the chief catalyst.

Aside from that, tough stretches of big games are relative to each guy and their respective teams.

Rey
07-23-2013, 03:16 PM
I am reading what you wrote...& for the most part i usually agree with you, i just don't agree that the 2 still can't be compared is all. Flacco winning a SB ring doesn't change my opinion of him as a qb. I need to see him duplicate what he did before i consider him any better than just a good qb. It doesn't have to be a SB win, but at least another SB appearance where he is the chief catalyst.

Aside from that, tough stretches of big games are relative to each guy and their respective teams.

Ok...I get what you are saying.

Mr teX
07-23-2013, 03:38 PM
I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.



This is also 1 helluva qualifier too...If you're going by this, well, there are only like 5 qb's in the league who can do this........b/c they've actually done it.


Brady
P. Manning
E. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Rothlisberger
& now Flacco

Rey
07-23-2013, 03:50 PM
This is also 1 helluva qualifier too...If you're going by this, well, there are only like 5 qb's in the league who can do this........b/c they've actually done it.


Brady
P. Manning
E. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Rothlisberger
& now Flacco

What do those QB's have in common?


You want to know what one hell of a qualifier is? Winning a Superbowl. There's only one of those handed out a year.

And I'm not saying I don't believe Schaub can do it because he hasn't done it. I'm saying I don't believe he can do it because I don't believe he can do it.

I'm anxiously waiting to be proven wrong. I want nothing more than Schaub to make all the doubters eat dirt and give the NFL a big stfu and suck these in late December. That would be awesome.

I don't believe he has it in him, but my belief has 0 to do with whether or not he actually can.

Mr teX
07-23-2013, 04:09 PM
He could just be his own type of guy too.

A guy that can make brilliant plays followed by terrible, awful plays.

But my point is, that he's proven that when it matters most he can step it up through a tough stretch of games and help his team win.

Doesn't mean he'll do it every time, but we know he can.

I don't know that Schaub can do that. Not for multiple games in a row down the stretch, into the play-offs and in the Superbowl.

And back to my original point about system...There's really 0 excuse for why he shouldn't be able to play well when it gets tough late in the year other than his own limitations or injuries. We know that this system works.

With Flacco, we don't know that his old system worked for him. We do know that his new system did.


Really there's no comparing the two at this point. Flacco has played well in a stretch of big games. Schaub hasn't. That's really the end of it right there.

Until Schaub can play well in tough games down the stretch then you can't put him on Flacco's level...IMO...

What do those QB's have in common?


You want to know what one hell of a qualifier is? Winning a Superbowl. There's only one of those handed out a year.

And I'm not saying I don't believe Schaub can do it because he hasn't done it. I'm saying I don't believe he can do it because I don't believe he can do it.

I'm anxiously waiting to be proven wrong. I want nothing more than Schaub to make all the doubters eat dirt and give the NFL a big stfu and suck these in late December. That would be awesome.



I don't believe he has it in him, but my belief has 0 to do with whether or not he actually can.

Agreed...Although there is the little caveat of him actually winning us a SB as our starting qb........but not actually being the key component. Maybe he game manages us to 1...So there is still a way you can be right but still be wrong..lol....:bender:

thunderkyss
07-23-2013, 05:47 PM
I don't understand what point you're making with that though.

They've already won a superbowl.

The book still being open means it can go positively or negatively from this point. And what I'm saying is that even if it all goes to hell, they've already accomplished the ultimate together. That can't be taken away.

If they do more positive things together that just adds to their legacy.

This back & forth between you & I started because you said when Caldwell took over, Flacco played better.

I said I don't know about Caldwell. We've seen Flacco flash a time or two before.

If Flacco comes out inconsistent next season, then we'll know it was more about Flacco's streakyness than it was about Caldwell.

Over the last 5 years, watching the two play, I never doubted that Schuab was the better of the two. Just because Flacco won a Super Bowl doesn't change that for me. He had a helluva run through the play offs, better than Peyton, & Brady both. That doesn't make him a better QB than either of them, doesn't make him a better QB than Schaub.

If he ever got to the point where you can expect him to play like that more often than not, then I'll say he's a better QB than Schaub.

Rey
07-23-2013, 05:55 PM
This back & forth between you & I started because you said when Caldwell took over, Flacco played better.

I said I don't know about Caldwell. We've seen Flacco flash a time or two before.

If Flacco comes out inconsistent next season, then we'll know it was more about Flacco's streakyness than it was about Caldwell.



Gotcha. Understood.

Norg
07-24-2013, 06:04 PM
I cant wait till schaub wins a Super bowl so all this talk can die

dream_team
07-24-2013, 06:06 PM
I cant wait till schaub wins a Super bowl so all this talk can die

I 2nd that!

steelbtexan
07-24-2013, 06:33 PM
This back & forth between you & I started because you said when Caldwell took over, Flacco played better.

I said I don't know about Caldwell. We've seen Flacco flash a time or two before.

If Flacco comes out inconsistent next season, then we'll know it was more about Flacco's streakyness than it was about Caldwell.

Over the last 5 years, watching the two play, I never doubted that Schuab was the better of the two. Just because Flacco won a Super Bowl doesn't change that for me. He had a helluva run through the play offs, better than Peyton, & Brady both. That doesn't make him a better QB than either of them, doesn't make him a better QB than Schaub.

If he ever got to the point where you can expect him to play like that more often than not, then I'll say he's a better QB than Schaub.

What about the yr before when the Ravens were 1 Evans dropped pass away from the SB? Did you know Flacco's teams have made it to the playoffs every yr? Clutch gene?

Flacco has the clutch gene, Schaub not so much.

thunderkyss
07-24-2013, 07:46 PM
What about the yr before when the Ravens were 1 Evans dropped pass away from the SB? Did you know Flacco's teams have made it to the playoffs every yr? Clutch gene?

Flacco has the clutch gene, Schaub not so much.

If he was clutch, Evans would have caught that ball same as Casey should have caught the one Schaub served up for him.

Flacco stepped it up in the play offs, can't take that away from him.

DexmanC
07-24-2013, 07:57 PM
The Texans are one QB with decent mobility, decent accuracy, and decent arm strength away from being tough to deal with.

False Start
07-24-2013, 09:17 PM
No Schaub thread is complete without this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1156476/matt-schaub-crazy-look-o.gif

drs23
07-24-2013, 09:21 PM
No Schaub thread is complete without this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1156476/matt-schaub-crazy-look-o.gif

We can always count on you FS.

MSR

False Start
07-24-2013, 09:27 PM
We can always count on you FS.

MSR

:tiphat:

Norg
07-25-2013, 12:09 AM
I wanna see that schaub were its like OT and the game goes into clutch mode so Schaub goes into robot BEAST MODE

drives down the field and scores a 7

paycheck71
07-25-2013, 12:31 AM
I wanna see that schaub were its like OT and the game goes into clutch mode so Schaub goes into robot BEAST MODE

drives down the field and scores a 7

You mean like vs WAS in 2010? Or a number of other games in 2010? Or JAX last year?

paycheck71
07-25-2013, 07:14 PM
Can we put the audible arguments to rest after this?

Stephanie Stradley @StephStradley
#Texans @MSchaub8 said that they may change play at line based on D look maybe 30% of time but do in way not as obvious as other teams.

Stephanie Stradley @StephStradley
#Texans @CMyers55 talked about Schaub having flexibility for calling plays. They audible/have options but more subtle than some teams.

Stephanie Stradley @StephStradley
Re: Myers/Schaub audible qs. Neither wanted to discuss details of play changing at line, but seemed to think silly some concerned with that.

OrangeLotPole8
07-26-2013, 01:43 AM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/24364_398922946398_2970597_n.jpg

Because Flacco is better than allz them btches.


DUDE!!!!!!!!!! You are repped on that alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am still laughing!:goodpost:

thunderkyss
07-26-2013, 09:20 AM
Can we put the audible arguments to rest after this?

She went into more detail in her blog (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/changing-plays-at-the-line-matt-schaub-chris-myers-talk-audibles/).

In our scheme, Matt doesnít necessarily have to do that all the time. You guys may not notice, but we audible a lot. You guys may not notice and talk about it all the time because you guys donít notice it. Itís one of the things that come with the territory. Itís a smooth transition for us with the zone blocking scheme and with the rollouts that we have that Mattís been able to run. We donít have to audible as much because we have the potential for other things to happen. Our audibles arenít the same as other teams, but we get it done just as much as they do.

We do have a built-in system but itís something that we do at the line of scrimmage that is not as dramatic as some teams do. We do it about 30 percent of the game. We have two or maybe three plays at the line of scrimmage and then we go from there. Itís all based on what the defense is doing. Sometimes itís run to run, run to pass, it can be any one of those things, but itís all predicated on the defense.

So there you go. If they told you how it was done, they would have to kill you.


I know I've seen things on TV or at the game & wondered why they don't take advantage of them... I've seen Andre in the slot with a LB covering him & we go with a run play.

But when you look at how prolific our offense is I can't imagine we don't have the ability to change the play based on what the defense shows. Personally, I think if every player on the OL has options, where the FB has to read & react, then the HB has to read & react, then it stands to reason the QB & the receivers have a "read & react" portion in the offense as well and there's got to be a system to make sure they are all on the same page.

Yes, some teamsí schemes mean that they dramatically change plays. And they may change plays to a larger part of their playbook. With the Texans scheme in particular, since so much of it is from formations where run and pass are intended to look the same, they usually donít want to be obvious in play changing. Non-obvious audibles isnít an unusual thing in the NFL either, but appears to be a pet issue of some.

Which brings up another point. When teams do audible, the defense audibles... how is that taking advantage of a situation? If it's like Schaub & Myers says, other teams don't know when we change, then we've got them where we want them.

Rey
07-26-2013, 09:37 AM
She went into more detail in her blog (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/changing-plays-at-the-line-matt-schaub-chris-myers-talk-audibles/).








I know I've seen things on TV or at the game & wondered why they don't take advantage of them... I've seen Andre in the slot with a LB covering him & we go with a run play.

But when you look at how prolific our offense is I can't imagine we don't have the ability to change the play based on what the defense shows. Personally, I think if every player on the OL has options, where the FB has to read & react, then the HB has to read & react, then it stands to reason the QB & the receivers have a "read & react" portion in the offense as well and there's got to be a system to make sure they are all on the same page.



Which brings up another point. When teams do audible, the defense audibles... how is that taking advantage of a situation? If it's like Schaub & Myers says, other teams don't know when we change, then we've got them where we want them.


The same thing Schaub and Meyers said is the same thing I've been saying for a few years.

With this scheme the audibles aren't like other teams. That's a good and bad thing. It's good because with the ZBS you don't really need wholesale changes on any given play because the scheme is designed to make the defense wrong under several different situations. Our audibles are based more on defensive formations vs defensive personnel.

The only drawback to our audible system is that in the past (I'll explain why I say past later) if Andre has a mouse in the house or if Matt sees some other mismatch, he doesn't go completely off the grid and call something all on his own to take advantage of that.

Our audibles are basic audibles. If you see this when we have this play called this do that. Matt hasn't had the freedom to go and do what I call creative audibles.

So they are right. Our audible system is different.

Now the reason that I keep saying "in the past" is because Rick Smith was on the radio maybe like a week ago and he said something about Matt having more freedom at the LOS this year than he's had in the past...Something about giving him more responsibility. My only guess is that Matt will be allowed to completely change plays to something he likes in certain instances based on things he himself picked up on film or a match up he likes...or whatever reason he comes up with. I think they are going to allow him more freedom to be creative at the line.

That's something that I've been wanting to see because it might actually help him play better. Give him more confidence in what he's doing...And he's a smart guy, so maybe he will be able to call some things on the fly that really help the offense.

But yeah...They are right. We audible quite a bit. But it's not like a lot of other teams where you see QB's walking down the line calling stuff out because we aren't making those kinds of changes.