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the wonger need food
07-15-2013, 10:57 PM
Our Texans have some issues going into training camp next week. Inside LB, right side of OL, QB, Nose Tackle, WR depth, Safety... we have more questions than answers at this point.

Our biggest concern however may be an area that isn't really being discussed.... Place Kicker. Randy Bullock is the lone PK on the roster and given his limited reps last preseason he is a huge question mark. He was somewhat shaky on field goals and showed a weak leg on kickoffs. Obviously this is an extremely important position that often wins or loses games for a team, especially one involved in a lot of close games like the Texans given their ultra-conservative play with a lead.

With zero competition on the roster it seems like the organization is content to just whistle past the graveyard on this one and hope for the best which seems like a huge risk. What say you???

drs23
07-15-2013, 11:14 PM
Our Texans have some issues going into training camp next week. Inside LB, right side of OL, QB, Nose Tackle, WR depth, Safety... we have more questions than answers at this point.

Our biggest concern however may be an area that isn't really being discussed.... Place Kicker. Randy Bullock is the lone PK on the roster and given his limited reps last preseason he is a huge question mark. He was somewhat shaky on field goals and showed a weak leg on kickoffs. Obviously this is an extremely important position that often wins or loses games for a team, especially one involved in a lot of close games like the Texans given their ultra-conservative play with a lead.

With zero competition on the roster it seems like the organization is content to just whistle past the graveyard on this one and hope for the best which seems like a huge risk. What say you???

Agree, and very concerned. Hoping for the best. We'll see.

PapaL
07-15-2013, 11:24 PM
KO's I believe will be Shane's thing. I'm not overly concerned about the K position.

Vance87
07-15-2013, 11:58 PM
KO's I believe will be Shane's thing. I'm not overly concerned about the K position.

Maybe you missed it, but Shayne signed with the Browns 3 months ago...

Brandon420tx
07-16-2013, 12:07 AM
Maybe you missed it, but he was referring to Shane Lechler, whom the Texans signed this offseason

the wonger need food
07-16-2013, 01:26 AM
Maybe you missed it, but he was referring to Shane Lechler, whom the Texans signed this offseason

Maybe you missed it but Lechler is a Punter... not a Kicker.

Bullock couldn't even get the ball into the end zone last preseason in an era where touchbacks occur about 50% of the time. Time for Coach Joe to earn his money...

the wonger need food
07-16-2013, 01:27 AM
KO's I believe will be Shane's thing. I'm not overly concerned about the K position.

What leads you to assume this? Has Shane Lechler ever been used for kickoffs in his career???

Clamp
07-16-2013, 02:44 AM
What leads you to assume this? Has Shane Lechler ever been used for kickoffs in his career???

The placekicker is usually the kickoff man, but punters are used often enough that it's not that unusual. And Lechler has had one of the strongest legs in the league for years. I would guess that he can boot it pretty far, just without a lot of accuracy, hence why he is a punter.

the wonger need food
07-16-2013, 04:10 AM
The placekicker is usually the kickoff man, but punters are used often enough that it's not that unusual. And Lechler has had one of the strongest legs in the league for years. I would guess that he can boot it pretty far, just without a lot of accuracy, hence why he is a punter.

Punters are seldom used for kickoffs in the NFL and it's highly unlikely that Lechler will be used here. Completely different muscle memory.

With that said, Kubiak values players with multiple skill sets so it's also unlikely that a specialist will be brought in. Hopefully Bullock can be coached up and start booting the ball out of the end zone.

Exascor
07-16-2013, 07:29 AM
Maybe you missed it but Lechler is a Punter... not a Kicker.

Bullock couldn't even get the ball into the end zone last preseason in an era where touchbacks occur about 50% of the time. Time for Coach Joe to earn his money...Maybe you missed it but...Bullock was injured. He tried to play through the pain and it affected his performance. Is it a question mark for the team? Sure but not a big one until we see him in the preseason.

FirstTexansFan
07-16-2013, 08:52 AM
Considering his injury, I'd contribute his poor performance to that.

Here is his percentage of touchback's at Texas A&M with him kicking five yards further than what occurs in the NFL.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/697/1018534/kickoff/split.html

And here is the percentage for touchback's in the NFL. Take note of the before and after rule change.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pct?date=2011-02-07

You guys are number crunchers, tell me I'm not old and blind. I'll just whistle right on out of this thread :popcorn:

deucetx
07-16-2013, 09:19 AM
Guess we'll wait and see for preseason whether it will be Bullock or Lechler. Saying he's a punter doesn't really matter. Texans used Hartmann in 2011 for kickoffs a majority of the time. Not to mention 4 of the top ten kickoff personnel in touchbacks were actually punters

Michael Koenen (TB) - 4th avg distance 2nd Touchbacks
Matt Bosher (Atl) - 8th avg distance 6th(tie) Touchbacks
Thomas Morstead (NO) - 14th avg distance 6th(tie) Touchbacks
Pat McAfee (Indy) - 3rd avg. distance 6th(tie) Touchbacks

I'm more concerned with the coverage since returners are taking them out of the endzone lately. We seemed to be running in mud when it came to coverage except a couple of individuals. Kickers are always available if needed for bargain dollars and can leap in at any moment so time remains on a decision in this direction if they see fit.

PapaL
07-16-2013, 09:55 AM
Maybe you missed it but Lechler is a Punter... not a Kicker.

Bullock couldn't even get the ball into the end zone last preseason in an era where touchbacks occur about 50% of the time. Time for Coach Joe to earn his money...

Maybe you missed it but not only Shane do kickoff's at A&M but he's also done them throughout his NFL career. That's what leads me to believe he is capable of it.

Rey
07-16-2013, 10:09 AM
Lechler has a total of 16 kick-offs over a 13 year career. 9 of those came in his rookie season.

Out of those 16 kicks only one was a Touch Back (All of his kicks were done under the old distance) and his longest kick of 75 yards was returned for a TD. He's never kicked an onside kick in the NFL.

Lechlers career avg would have put him at about 15 or so among kickers last year for distance. And that's with a small sample size + kicking under the old distance.

He hasn't done a kick-off in 3 years. He's gone 7 years of his career without doing a single kick-off.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he won't be our regular kick-off man unless the Texans just want to try some shyt.

thunderkyss
07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
Our Texans have some issues going into training camp next week. Inside LB, right side of OL, QB, Nose Tackle, WR depth, Safety... we have more questions than answers at this point.


I think you can scratch Nose Tackle off your list. We don't like the guys they've got there, but I believe it's getting more & more obvious that the Texans are looking for something different from what we are looking for. They appear to have put the same "type" of person/player in that position for years, it's deliberate.

LB, I think the team has done a good job in trying to answer that question. Time will tell. Cushing Sharpton, Reed, & Mercilus.... done. Sharpton & Cushing had some health issues last season, let's hope they are past them now. Dobbins, moving Reed inside, Braman, Sonic, & Travardo.. plan B, C, & D

Safety, again I think they've made a good attempt so far, Pleasant will probably make the team & I'm expecting to see Harris take a few snaps at Safety in the PreSeason.... a back up to the back up so to speak.

PapaL
07-16-2013, 10:17 AM
Lechler has a total of 16 kick-offs over a 13 year career. 9 of those came in his rookie season.

Out of those 16 kicks only one was a Touch Back (All of his kicks were done under the old distance) and his longest kick of 75 yards was returned for a TD. He's never kicked an onside kick in the NFL.

Lechlers career avg would have put him at about 15 or so among kickers last year for distance. And that's with a small sample size + kicking under the old distance.

He hasn't done a kick-off in 3 years. He's gone 7 years of his career without doing a single kick-off.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he won't be our regular kick-off man unless the Texans just want to try some shyt.

Considering the other guy kicking the ball in Oakland is/was Sebastian Janikowski, who would you have doing kickoffs?


That 2000 Draft was pretty good for OAK ST. Kicker in the 1st and Punter in the 5th for the next 12 years.

Rey
07-16-2013, 10:28 AM
Considering the other guy kicking the ball in Oakland is/was Sebastian Janikowski, who would you have doing kickoffs?

The point is that he doesn't have much experience at all doing it in the NFL and as far as I know the Texans have give 0 indication that he'd be doing it.

If you think that he will be the kick off guy...ok...

But based on his limited experience there I don't believe he will.

deucetx
07-16-2013, 10:30 AM
Sheesh we need football. We're talking about freaking kickoffs lol. Not much science into kicking it off but here we are disecting it. Got to love offseason, heh.

PapaL
07-16-2013, 10:55 AM
The point is that he doesn't have much experience at all doing it in the NFL and as far as I know the Texans have give 0 indication that he'd be doing it.

If you think that he will be the kick off guy...ok...

But based on his limited experience there I don't believe he will.

He throws passes and don't have much experience doing that either - oh wait expect he ALSO did that at A&M too.

If you don't think he'll be the guy cool, more power to you.

He's the only guy on our roster with ANY experience doing it; both NCAA and NFL.

HOU-TEX
07-16-2013, 11:16 AM
Sheesh we need football. We're talking about freaking kickoffs lol. Not much science into kicking it off but here we are disecting it. Got to love offseason, heh.

Normally I would be saying this right there with ya. But, Graham was horrible on KOs. IMO, with the new rule an NFL kicker should hit the endzone dang near every KO. I mean, at least make the returner have to make the decision to bring it out. It seemed like Graham was continually hitting the 5 yard line, giving the returner no choice but to run with it.

That, in addition to our crappy STs overall is a major issue.

thunderkyss
07-16-2013, 12:49 PM
Normally I would be saying this right there with ya. But, Graham was horrible on KOs. IMO, with the new rule an NFL kicker should hit the endzone dang near every KO. I mean, at least make the returner have to make the decision to bring it out. It seemed like Graham was continually hitting the 5 yard line, giving the returner no choice but to run with it.

That, in addition to our crappy STs overall is a major issue.

With our coverage team being as bad as they were I understand the concern, but I would think you'd want The ball to land inside the 5 giving your coverage team the chance to pin them inside the 5, or 10... anything shorter than the 20 & you win.

I don't see the point in kicking it into the end zone every time & giving them 20 yards.

HOU-TEX
07-16-2013, 02:17 PM
With our coverage team being as bad as they were I understand the concern, but I would think you'd want The ball to land inside the 5 giving your coverage team the chance to pin them inside the 5, or 10... anything shorter than the 20 & you win.

I don't see the point in kicking it into the end zone every time & giving them 20 yards.

I don't think so, you might want to take a gander at KO return averages. Considering the average KO return ranges from Stefon Logan's 21.3 to Jacoby Jones' 30.7 yards, I'd think we'd be better off with the possibility of the touchback.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn

You'd be correct if it was a punt

ObsiWan
07-17-2013, 05:47 AM
Training camp begins a week from tomorrow (7/25).
:texflag:
Let's see who does what in camp.

HJam72
07-17-2013, 12:11 PM
Training camp begins a week from tomorrow (7/25).
:texflag:
Let's see who does what in camp.

Wow, I missed that; but that's OK 'cuz everybody in this thread is missing something.

ObsiWan
07-17-2013, 01:28 PM
Wow, I missed that; but that's OK 'cuz everybody in this thread is missing something.

Speaking of camp, I better go to the mothership and get my passes.

BullBlitz
07-17-2013, 03:42 PM
Our Texans have some issues going into training camp next week. Inside LB, right side of OL, QB, Nose Tackle, WR depth, Safety... we have more questions than answers at this point.

Our biggest concern however may be an area that isn't really being discussed.... Place Kicker. Randy Bullock is the lone PK on the roster and given his limited reps last preseason he is a huge question mark. He was somewhat shaky on field goals and showed a weak leg on kickoffs. Obviously this is an extremely important position that often wins or loses games for a team, especially one involved in a lot of close games like the Texans given their ultra-conservative play with a lead.

With zero competition on the roster it seems like the organization is content to just whistle past the graveyard on this one and hope for the best which seems like a huge risk. What say you???

It's pretty easy to tell whether or not a kicker has range and accuracy in the preseason. If he does, we are good. If not, there are others around.

This team's problem isn't place kicker. We need a WR to step up among other things.

TEXANRED
07-17-2013, 03:47 PM
Maybe you missed it but Lechler is a Punter... not a Kicker.

Bullock couldn't even get the ball into the end zone last preseason in an era where touchbacks occur about 50% of the time. Time for Coach Joe to earn his money...

I'm pretty sure the punter kicks the football which makes him a kicker. :lion:

thunderkyss
07-17-2013, 04:18 PM
It's pretty easy to tell whether or not a kicker has range and accuracy in the preseason. If he does, we are good. If not, there are others around.

This team's problem isn't place kicker. We need a WR to step up among other things.

Well thought out post from a Texans fan.....

in rebuttal, I know we like to think we're part of the decision making process & need to see what we need to see. But if the coaches don't know by now what kind of range Bullock has (through OTAs, through mini-camp) then they won't learn anything in the preseason.

drs23
07-17-2013, 05:40 PM
It's pretty easy to tell whether or not a kicker has range and accuracy in the preseason. If he does, we are good. If not, there are others around.

This team's problem isn't place kicker. We need a WR to step up among other things.

So...the Colts maybe/may not be good with their kicker? :kitten:

So...the Colts need a WR to step up? :kitten:

What are the "among other things" that your team is lacking? :kitten:

the wonger need food
07-18-2013, 08:22 PM
Maybe you missed it but not only Shane do kickoff's at A&M but he's also done them throughout his NFL career. That's what leads me to believe he is capable of it.

No, I saw it. He's kicked off a few times in his career however it is not a strength. NFL kickers have lost jobs due to short kickoffs and Kubiak isn't likely to bring in a specialist for this and waste an important roster spot.

You guys tried to make the same argument for Casey and Dreesen long snapping because you didn't understand the importance of that .3 seconds faster that Jon Weeks gets the ball back to the kicker.

The NFL game is literally a game of inches and fractions of seconds. Teams don't just plug in someone to do a job because they might be okay at it sometimes. In an age where almost 50% of all kickoffs are touchbacks, that is the expectation and they will need a player with the ability to kick it deep consistently.

Perki-Perk
07-18-2013, 09:09 PM
Maybe you missed it...

No, Maybe you missed it...

No, I believe you missed it...

What I didn't miss was a bunch of people acting like Ninnies!!

drs23
07-19-2013, 12:37 PM
Maybe you missed it...

No, Maybe you missed it...

No, I believe you missed it...

What I didn't miss was a bunch of people acting like Ninnies!!

Hmmmm, I must have missed it. :whistle:

CloakNNNdagger
07-19-2013, 05:01 PM
Normally I would be saying this right there with ya. But, Graham was horrible on KOs. IMO, with the new rule an NFL kicker should hit the endzone dang near every KO. I mean, at least make the returner have to make the decision to bring it out. It seemed like Graham was continually hitting the 5 yard line, giving the returner no choice but to run with it.

That, in addition to our crappy STs overall is a major issue.

Absolutely. Even if the ST coach wants to call a short KO like at the 5 because he has confidence most of the time with his coverage team, that kicker should still have the ability to otherwise kick that ball out of the end zone at will. This should be an absolute in that you don't want to lose a close late game because of a short kick leading to a huge return.

ObsiWan
07-21-2013, 08:50 AM
With our coverage team being as bad as they were I understand the concern, but I would think you'd want The ball to land inside the 5 giving your coverage team the chance to pin them inside the 5, or 10... anything shorter than the 20 & you win.

I don't see the point in kicking it into the end zone every time & giving them 20 yards.

I completely agree with the thinking; don't automatically "gift" them the ball at the 20 if you can pin them inside of it. The question is, can we get sufficient hang time - short kicks OUGHT to be higher - to smother the returner and make this strategy work?

If we can, I like it!

thunderkyss
07-21-2013, 09:10 AM
I completely agree with the thinking; don't automatically "gift" them the ball at the 20 if you can pin them inside of it. The question is, can we get sufficient hang time - short kicks OUGHT to be higher - to smother the returner and make this strategy work?

If we can, I like it!

Moving the ball up changes the game, I'm hoping we're trying to change as well. Personally I'm not going to hold it against the kicker if the ball is dropped in front of the endzone, or anywhere near the goal line, that's where I want it. if he can get the hangtime where my team can cross their 20 before they field the ball, I'm happy.

Playoffs
07-25-2013, 01:12 PM
http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/22/72/50/4958738/3/rawImage.jpg-Chron.com

Texans' eyes will be on Bullock's right leg (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-eyes-will-be-on-Bullock-s-right-leg-4685502.php?t=5fe990c2fc57e499d9) (Chron alert)

"He showed us a lot before he got hurt," Kubiak said as he prepared for his eighth training camp with the Texans. "We believe in him because we know what he's capable of doing."
...
Marciano scouted Bullock extensively. He was so high on Bullock that you would have thought Marciano was an Aggie, too.
...
During camp, Bullock suffered a groin injury but didn't tell anyone at first. Marciano noticed his getting less distance on his kickoffs and field goals in practice. One day, Bullock showed Marciano his upper leg, and the inside was so purple that it was turning black.
...
"The kid gets distance on his kickoffs," Kubiak said.

Kickoffs are a big reason Bullock has the job. Graham didn't kick off as deep as the coaches wanted...

The Texans were so bad on kickoff coverage that they ranked last in the NFL, giving opponents an average starting field position of the 25.6-yard line. The league average was the 22.1. Of the Texans' 92 kickoffs, only 13 saw their opponents start inside their 20.

So Bullock has to kick deep on kickoffs, and his teammates have to do a much better job on coverage.

On field goals, where games are won and lost, Bullock has an exceptional snapper in Jon Weeks. Holder Shane Lechler is one of the greatest punters in NFL history.

Something to keep an eye on in camp is Lechler's holding for a right-footed kicker for the first time in his career. When Lechler was the holder during his 13 seasons at Oakland, his kicker was the left-footed Sebastian Janikowski.

Watching Lechler and Bullock work together for the first time will be one of the more interesting things about training camp. And they'd better click, or the Texans will have to make adjustments.

b0ng
07-25-2013, 01:17 PM
Marciano seems to be able to spot the talent. . . making use of it is another story all together.

TexansFTW
07-25-2013, 01:33 PM
Marciano seems to be able to spot the talent. . . making use of it is another story all together.

I'll just leave this here: http://instantrimshot.com/

As for the original kicker discussion, it looks like everyone was right to an extent. I'm optimistic he can get it done. Good update Playoffs.

CloakNNNdagger
07-25-2013, 01:34 PM
Based on what I saw of him in college, count me very skeptical on the adductor tear being the sole reason for his shorter kickoffs and FG attempts in preseason. He wasn't dealing with any adductor problems in college. This is not even to mention the concern of rookie "nerves" in critical situations. The only time I can honestly say I ever saw Bullock demonstrate a "big leg" is last year from the swelling seen after the tear.:spy:

Playoffs
07-25-2013, 01:35 PM
I don't see the point in kicking it into the end zone every time & giving them 20 yards.

I don't know why not, it would put your team at 3rd best in the league (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn/position/defense/order/false) in kickoff coverage.

Stemp
07-25-2013, 01:38 PM
I don't know why not, it would put your team at 3rd best in the league (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn/position/defense/order/false) in kickoff coverage.

Coaches would go further and would love to have a kicker who could kick it through the end zone every time and not give returners a chance at all.

Playoffs
07-25-2013, 01:50 PM
Coaches would go further and would love to have a kicker who could kick it through the end zone every time and not give returners a chance at all.

I think it might be worth it to use a roster spot for a kick-off-er who could give you 100% touchbacks.

It would reduce the injuries on kickoffs after teams realized it was auto-touchback ..... it would reduce the need for a special teams monster tackler spot on the roster (but not for a blocker when we receive the kick) ..... and it puts you at the top of the league. I'd do it. :smiliedance:

HOU-TEX
07-25-2013, 02:10 PM
My problem is this; what if he's re-injured or strains something else? The fact that we never went out and got another K is kinda disturbing, IMO. How can the coaching staff trust in something they've never seen?

CloakNNNdagger
07-25-2013, 02:42 PM
My problem is this; what if he's re-injured or strains something else? The fact that we never went out and got another K is kinda disturbing, IMO. How can the coaching staff trust in something they've never seen?

Very disturbing!

Wake up people. Does anyone really believe that Shane Graham was brought in by the Texans to be an HONEST competition for Bullock? He was just THERE for the SHOW. Bullock was THE CHOSEN ONE right from the pick. But Bullock wasn't really showing up Graham in any way, in fact there were times that Graham looked better............then, when Bullock suffered his untimely injury, the Texans suddenly found themselves "stuck" with someone they never wanted or expected.........Graham. This year, if they can help it, they don't want anyone getting in the way of "their" boy..........hence no challenger to"accidentally" mess with their plans........and even if Bullock comes in last in the "competition" this year, he will still be first on the Texans roster..........INGENIOUS!:kitten:

thunderkyss
07-25-2013, 04:48 PM
I don't know why not, it would put your team at 3rd best in the league (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn/position/defense/order/false) in kickoff coverage.

That just means a lot of teams are doing it wrong.

The game is changing & as soon as we start seeing kickers who can get some air under the ball & drop it in the 5, the league will start looking for more of them.

HOU-TEX
07-25-2013, 04:56 PM
That just means a lot of teams are doing it wrong.

The game is changing & as soon as we start seeing kickers who can get some air under the ball & drop it in the 5, the league will start looking for more of them.

You're wrong

Rey
07-25-2013, 05:11 PM
That just means a lot of teams are doing it wrong.

The game is changing & as soon as we start seeing kickers who can get some air under the ball & drop it in the 5, the league will start looking for more of them.

I don't know if you realize how hard that is.

To kick the ball that high off of a kicking tee and be able to pin a team inside the 5 would require skill that this league has never seen.

When was the last time you saw someone fair catch a normal kick-off? Not one of those short pooches...but a kick off that went past the twenty?

If there is a kicker that can make teams fair catch inside their own ten yard line, they'd be guaranteed a roster spot even if they couldn't do anything else. Even if they couldn't kick extra points.

Do you realize how valuable that would be?

I understand the idea you have, but kickers aren't able to kick the ball that high and that far in order to give the return team enough time to get down there to be pinned inside the 5.

I agree with it in principal, but I don't think it's a realistic expectation.

I mean...I like the high and deep (but not too deep) approach with a strong legged kicker...But you are realistically still looking at a stop around the 15-20..maybe around the 11 or 12 if you are lucky/that good. And if a guy is able to run with it and doesn't have to call a fair catch, there's always the chance it could go much farther.

Having said all that, if I'm a coach I'd rather kick it out of the EZ and have opposing teams start on the 20 every time and not even risk having them return it.

thunderkyss
07-25-2013, 05:47 PM
I don't know if you realize how hard that is.

To kick the ball that high off of a kicking tee and be able to pin a team inside the 5 would require skill that this league has never seen.


Yeah..... I'm not expecting anyone to pin anyone inside the 5. I want a kicker who can get the ball so high, that if it drops inside the 5, my coverage team is already crossing the 20. If they do their job right from there, they should be able pin the returner short of the 20.

He doesn't even have to drop it inside the 5..... 5 yards into the endzone would be fine. But my coverage team has to be at the 20, or at the very least crossing the 25 when it's fielded. I want that guy to come out of the endzone, because I want to stop him before the 20.

I want him to risk fumbling the ball.

If our Special Teams were as bad as they were last year, absolutely I want to kick it out the back of the endzone every time.

Rey
07-25-2013, 05:49 PM
Yeah..... I'm not expecting anyone to pin anyone inside the 5. I want a kicker who can get the ball so high, that if it drops inside the 5, my coverage team is already crossing the 20. If they do their job right from there, they should be able pin the returner short of the 20.

He doesn't even have to drop it inside the 5..... 5 yards into the endzone would be fine. But my coverage team has to be at the 20, or at the very least crossing the 25 when it's fielded. I want that guy to come out of the endzone, because I want to stop him before the 20.

I want him to risk fumbling the ball.

If our Special Teams were as bad as they were last year, absolutely I want to kick it out the back of the endzone every time.

Gotcha....That makes sense to me...

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2013, 09:53 AM
Yeah..... I'm not expecting anyone to pin anyone inside the 5. I want a kicker who can get the ball so high, that if it drops inside the 5, my coverage team is already crossing the 20. If they do their job right from there, they should be able pin the returner short of the 20.

He doesn't even have to drop it inside the 5..... 5 yards into the endzone would be fine. But my coverage team has to be at the 20, or at the very least crossing the 25 when it's fielded. I want that guy to come out of the endzone, because I want to stop him before the 20.

I want him to risk fumbling the ball.

If our Special Teams were as bad as they were last year, absolutely I want to kick it out the back of the endzone every time.

That would indeed be an "ideal" combination of kicker and coverage team. I would then have to point out that the boomer, high hanging kicker you speak of is probably the same type of kicker that would have the comparable power to at will when needed kick the ball with less height, but greater distance (ala out of the EZ).

thunderkyss
07-27-2013, 11:26 AM
That would indeed be an "ideal" combination of kicker and coverage team. I would then have to point out that the boomer, high hanging kicker you speak of is probably the same type of kicker that would have the comparable power to at will when needed kick the ball with less height, but greater distance (ala out of the EZ).

Allz I said, was that I don't get the point of kicking touchbacks all the time.

ObsiWan
07-27-2013, 06:26 PM
Allz I said, was that I don't get the point of kicking touchbacks all the time.

Oh that's an easy one. if you have a kicker that can boot it thru the end zone each and every time, that removes the possibility of long run backs, injuries, penalties, etc.... all those variables that make kickoffs interesting for the fans but drive coaches nuts.

Plus, your defense knows where it's starting and has a decent idea (if you have a capable D-coordinator) of what plays the opposing offense is going to run. Most teams go run-first - or dink & dunk if they pass at all - in the shadow of their own goalposts. So that should make things easier for the defense.

I like where your head is at - and trust me, I'd LUUUV to see it pulled off - but the truth is it takes a perfect storm for your scenario to work as planned.
:fingergun:

thunderkyss
07-27-2013, 07:23 PM
I like where your head is at - and trust me, I'd LUUUV to see it pulled off - but the truth is it takes a perfect storm for your scenario to work as planned.
:fingergun:

It's coming.

bayoudreamn
07-27-2013, 08:26 PM
Our Texans have some issues going into training camp next week. Inside LB, right side of OL, QB, Nose Tackle, WR depth, Safety... we have more questions than answers at this point.

Our biggest concern however may be an area that isn't really being discussed.... Place Kicker. Randy Bullock is the lone PK on the roster and given his limited reps last preseason he is a huge question mark. He was somewhat shaky on field goals and showed a weak leg on kickoffs. Obviously this is an extremely important position that often wins or loses games for a team, especially one involved in a lot of close games like the Texans given their ultra-conservative play with a lead.

With zero competition on the roster it seems like the organization is content to just whistle past the graveyard on this one and hope for the best which seems like a huge risk. What say you???

I think the team upgraded everywhere. No team is without concerns, nor will any ever be....it is designed to be this way.....that is what parity means. I think we have a good med staff and good conditioning staff, and good nutrition people. Today I watched all these teams suffering injuries and I'm glad we've got the people we have in place to help with that and I'm glad our players have paid appropriate attention to their health coming into camp. I pray that their work provides a healthy preseason and full season/playoffs. I think the vision of the Texans organization to try to have good people in positions all over the team instead of one or two stars we totally rely on is going to help with that. I wouldn't want to be the New England patriots right now and have to pray that nothing happens to Tom Brady.

jtexas
07-29-2013, 07:58 AM
The only issue that concerns me will be their ability to cut him loose if he struggles. Outside of that, i assume our offense will be alittle more agressive and not settling for 3 as much.

CloakNNNdagger
07-30-2013, 09:46 AM
I don't think that this piece has has been posted (excuse if so). It reviews/compares a long list of relatively contemporary kickers and their performance stats in their rookie year (data courtesy Pro-Football-Reference.com.). Pretty interesting.

Will Young Randy Bullock Cost The Houston Texans Any Games? (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/7/24/4548932/will-young-randy-bullock-cost-the-houston-texans-any-games)

Playoffs
08-01-2013, 08:04 PM
If Bullock doesn't work out, we can always sign the loser of the kick-off between David Akers -- who is healthy now -- and...

Kickalicious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDwbjHV8jLo

paycheck71
08-01-2013, 08:33 PM
If Bullock doesn't work out, we can always sign the loser of the kick-off between David Akers -- who is healthy now -- and...

Kickalicious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDwbjHV8jLo

Surely skills like that should get you at least a tryout with someone, right?

Playoffs
08-01-2013, 08:39 PM
Surely skills like that should get you at least a tryout with someone, right?

Akers vs. Kickalicious for Lions job.

b0ng
08-01-2013, 11:37 PM
Akers vs. Kickalicious for Lions job.

I have read that the YouTube guy can't kick fast enough to not get it blocked a significant amount of times in the Lions camp.

paycheck71
08-02-2013, 12:15 AM
I have read that the YouTube guy can't kick fast enough to not get it blocked a significant amount of times in the Lions camp.

11/11 with a 58 yarder in "game like" situations is better than some kickers have done, I'm sure.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/01/kickalicious-showing-well-early-in-lions-camp/

Playoffs
08-02-2013, 09:00 AM
11/11 with a 58 yarder in "game like" situations is better than some kickers have done, I'm sure.

Missed 2 yesterday: http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2013/8/1/4578906/lions-training-camp-havard-rugland-david-akers

He does kick a low ball.

PapaL
08-02-2013, 02:02 PM
As taken from the Training Camp 2013 thread:

From TC's tweet:

@HoustonTexans camp: Biggest cheer today, Randy Bullock with 60 yard field goal on field 2.
8:34 AM - 2 Aug 2013

Impressive. SOTT was saying Bullock's leg is obviously more powerful than Graham's was last year.

76Texan
08-02-2013, 06:34 PM
Bullock's only two misses this TC were off the uprights, from 49 yards out.

Kick-offs have been deep; everything sounds pretty positive; or at the very least, it doesn't sound negative at all.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Kicker-Randy-Bullock-has-a-leg-up-on-rookies/c5ae883c-647c-4827-8380-a6b70ec7343b

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Nothing I saw last night gave me the warm and fuzzies.

Hit a 48 and 21 yd FG......and missed miserably at 54.

His KOs could be at best described as inconsistent.

Nothing I've seen from Bullock at this point makes me believe that he can kick the ball out of the EZ whenever called upon to do so.........or that Kubiak has any reason now to not only turn away and close his eyes, but also to cringe every time Bullock attempts to make a FG from 50 yds out. Remember, in his entire career, he's hit only 3 of 5 FGs >49 (50 [2009], 50 [2010], 52 [2011])

Speedy
08-10-2013, 02:33 PM
I didn't get to see the 54 yard attempt thanks to the abomination of a telecast last night, but on the kickoffs that he didn't rip through the end zone I'd venture to guess it was by design to give the special teams the work. Not that you'd need to work ST if you kick every ball through the end zone, but the only way some of these players make this team will be from what they can add to ST, so you've got to get a look at them.

So, I'm not too worried about Bullock at the moment.

Playoffs
08-11-2013, 12:38 PM
Kickoffs were fielded -6, out of the end zone on the fly, fielded at the 1, fielded -7, not fielded out of the end zone, low line drive knuckleball fielded on the fly at the 5.

Kickoffs were generally lower than you'd like, not giving special teams enough time to get down and cover. By contrast Blair Walsh has one of the bigger kickoff legs in the league and he put one through the uprights but had another fielded at the -3.

The 54 yard miss landed on the back chalk margin of the end zone and would have missed left or at best bounced left off the left upright.

Color me concerned..... and watching Kickalicious (https://www.google.com/search?q=Kickalicious&num=30&safe=off&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=q70HUrC0GeSo2gXN5oCIBQ&ved=0CA0Q_AUoAA&biw=1920&bih=947).

steelbtexan
08-11-2013, 12:48 PM
Kickoffs were fielded -6, out of the end zone on the fly, fielded at the 1, fielded -7, not fielded out of the end zone, low line drive knuckleball fielded on the fly at the 5.

Kickoffs were generally lower than you'd like, not giving special teams enough time to get down and cover. By contrast Blair Walsh has one of the bigger kickoff legs in the league and he put one through the uprights but had another fielded at the -3.

The 54 yard miss landed on the back chalk margin of the end zone and would have missed left or at best bounced left off the left upright.

Color me concerned..... and watching Kickalicious (https://www.google.com/search?q=Kickalicious&num=30&safe=off&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=q70HUrC0GeSo2gXN5oCIBQ&ved=0CA0Q_AUoAA&biw=1920&bih=947).

Me too,

Hopefully this doesn't turn into another Kris Brown situation. You know, the one where the K stinks and gets to keep his job due to favoritism.

We should be concerned by any rookie kicker. Particularly one that Coach Joe endorses, much less an inconsistent rookie K. Why competition wasn't brought in at the K position baffles me.

CloakNNNdagger
08-11-2013, 01:01 PM
Kickoffs were fielded -6, out of the end zone on the fly, fielded at the 1, fielded -7, not fielded out of the end zone, low line drive knuckleball fielded on the fly at the 5.

Kickoffs were generally lower than you'd like, not giving special teams enough time to get down and cover. By contrast Blair Walsh has one of the bigger kickoff legs in the league and he put one through the uprights but had another fielded at the -3.

The 54 yard miss landed on the back chalk margin of the end zone and would have missed left or at best bounced left off the left upright.

Color me concerned..... and watching Kickalicious (https://www.google.com/search?q=Kickalicious&num=30&safe=off&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=q70HUrC0GeSo2gXN5oCIBQ&ved=0CA0Q_AUoAA&biw=1920&bih=947).

In another thread, I posted what I saw when I slowed the action and zoomed in. It appeared as though the ball actually hit the inside of the "K" in the EZ "Vikings" marking, making it ~ 1/2 the distance within the EZ (~5 yds into the 10 yd-deep EZ, then bouncing to the chalk line).........and outside the left goal post. He essentially missed the FG by at least 5 yds in distance and outside of the goal posts.

With his college stats and what I've seen thus far with him in college and with the Texans, I have strong concerns about his leg and especially distance.

darnbni99a
08-12-2013, 12:15 AM
so we dont have a backup Kicker?

Rey
08-12-2013, 08:41 AM
Walsh was actually who I wanted in that draft, but I figured we'd go with the A&M guy. That said, I'm not sour on bullock just yet. I think he'll be fine, but I guess we'll see...

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2013, 12:16 PM
so we dont have a backup Kicker?

Yes.

But otoh, Bullock doesn't have to share reps and gets all the work. And he needs it.

FirstTexansFan
08-25-2013, 05:07 PM
So much for the question of leg strength. Three kickoffs for touch backs, and a 48 and 55yd field goal.

Thorn
08-25-2013, 05:40 PM
Bullock looked good, glad to see it.

Marcus
08-25-2013, 06:09 PM
Hey, you might want to pluck some feathers off that crow. Could be a little easier of that gag reflex. :lol:

CloakNNNdagger
08-25-2013, 07:15 PM
Hey, you might want to pluck some feathers off that crow. Could be a little easier of that gag reflex. :lol:

Very promising. Just want to see it during the regular season.

Showtime100
08-25-2013, 07:33 PM
Well, he's no Greg "Legatron" Zuerlein, but then who is? As CND said, very promising. Let's see it when it counts.

One question because my memory sucks. Does his attempts always shade to the right or was that just the way it happened today? After both of those kicks I suddenly realized I was sitting down horizontally on my left side....lol.

thunderkyss
08-26-2013, 02:32 AM
Personally, I didn't like the kickoffs. Very low, no hangtime.

If he's going for the back of the endzone.... fine. But I wouldn't have him going for the back of the endzone.

TexansFTW
08-26-2013, 08:50 AM
Are we all to the consensus that, for the most part, most of our preseason worries are calmed w/ regards to the kicker?

I liked what I saw. Hopefully him and Lechler look like this all season and we have found some new STs guys for years to come.

2012Champs
08-26-2013, 09:13 AM
Personally, I didn't like the kickoffs. Very low, no hangtime.

If he's going for the back of the endzone.... fine. But I wouldn't have him going for the back of the endzone.




Where would you have the kicker going for if it wasnt the back of the endzone?

thunderkyss
08-26-2013, 09:20 AM
Where would you have the kicker going for if it wasnt the back of the endzone?

I want longer hamg time & I'd like the ball to drop 4-6 yards inside the goal line. I want them to attempt a return, hoping to pin them inside the ten.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

HJam72
08-26-2013, 09:26 AM
I want longer hamg time & I'd like the ball to drop 4-6 yards inside the goal line. I want them to attempt a return, hoping to pin them inside the ten.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Well, that's the old-school way, but between injuries and the possibility of pinning it inside OUR 10, I'd prefer the kicker to just aim for the 3rd row through the uprights.

2012Champs
08-26-2013, 10:13 AM
I want longer hamg time & I'd like the ball to drop 4-6 yards inside the goal line. I want them to attempt a return, hoping to pin them inside the ten.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2





Id rather not take the chance on our special teams. Odds are we arent pinning anyone in

TD
08-26-2013, 10:25 AM
Average kick return last year in the NFL was over 20 yards. Can't imagine wanting anything but a touchback.

infantrycak
08-26-2013, 10:32 AM
Average kick return last year in the NFL was over 20 yards. Can't imagine wanting anything but a touchback.

I am in favor of going for touchbacks but a 20 yd return doesn't mean they got to the 20 yard line. That could be the 14 yd line if they started 6 yds deep.

TD
08-26-2013, 10:48 AM
I am in favor of going for touchbacks but a 20 yd return doesn't mean they got to the 20 yard line. That could be the 14 yd line if they started 6 yds deep.

Yep, I almost elaborated....risk/reward for < 10 yard best case average field position gain isn't worth it (assuming starting at the end line).

disaacks3
08-26-2013, 11:17 AM
Personally, I didn't like the kickoffs. Very low, no hangtime.

If he's going for the back of the endzone.... fine. But I wouldn't have him going for the back of the endzone.

I want longer hamg time & I'd like the ball to drop 4-6 yards inside the goal line. I want them to attempt a return, hoping to pin them inside the ten.

I'd venture to say that puts you at odds with pretty much all the NFL coaches out there. Sure, it's a perfect world scenario. Unfortunately, it doesn't match the skill-set of our coverage team very well. :thinking:

Playoffs
08-26-2013, 11:22 AM
http://www.cristoferdelatorre.com/emoticonosgratis/emoticonos/fantasma-detras-de-la-tumba.gif http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/images/smilies/2014_whistling_and_rolling_eyes.gif

TexanBacker93
08-26-2013, 11:29 AM
Well, he's no Greg "Legatron" Zuerlein, but then who is? As CND said, very promising. Let's see it when it counts.

One question because my memory sucks. Does his attempts always shade to the right or was that just the way it happened today? After both of those kicks I suddenly realized I was sitting down horizontally on my left side....lol.

Zuerlein might have a stronger leg but he was just over 50% in the 2nd half of last season in FG%. I'd rather have the accurate guy. I don't know if it is Bullock until he sees big boy games, though.

TexanBacker93
08-26-2013, 11:31 AM
I want longer hamg time & I'd like the ball to drop 4-6 yards inside the goal line. I want them to attempt a return, hoping to pin them inside the ten.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Marciano's ST schemes would still let them return it to the 35. I'd rather make them start at the 20 each time. I don't trust our kick coverage. If there is too much hang time and all the coverage guys are already closing in all it will take is the usual 1 missed tackle and there will be nothing but green grass ahead.

Porky
08-26-2013, 12:39 PM
No way in hell do I want Bullock purposely kicking it in the field of play - at any height. WAY WAY too much chance of a long return or TD. Just because it's kicked high and Texans are in the neighborhood doesn't automatically mean the guy is immediately tackled. I don't understand this line of thinking at all.

Definitely not even close to the risk/reward ratio I would be comfy with.

I'm much more Pro Bullock then some in here, especially Doc. I mean that 55 yarder might have been good from 65 or longer. That kick was ridiculous. His kickoffs have been good...and getting better. So much for this notion of a limpy legged Aggie. :devilpig:

thunderkyss
08-26-2013, 01:26 PM
I'd also like better special teams play along with higher kicks.

Playoffs
08-26-2013, 04:42 PM
Randy Bullock

I have to admit, Ive liked Randy Bullock from the get-go simply because of his measurables. Hes a kicker that is 59 and 208lbs. That is a vaguely ridiculous shape for a kicker, but that brick-like build obviously serves him well judging by this outing in which he both drilled field goals and hoofed kickoffs out of the end zone. He was 3-for-3 on scoring attempts, including from 55 yards and another from over 40.

He nailed a touchback on four of his five kickoffs and averaged 8.6 yards into the end zone. Bullock certainly seems to have a leg, and so far it looks pretty accurate.https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/26/refo-no-hou-preseason-week-3/

the wonger need food
09-15-2013, 05:14 PM
They'd better have about 23 guys trying out this Tuesday because Bullock doesn't appear to be the answer....

fiasco west
09-15-2013, 05:17 PM
Maybe.

I'd give him more than two games. If it's not fixed going into the 2nd half of the season then I'd start looking around.

The positive is he HAS the leg for those 50 yard kicks, and he must be drilling them in practice for Kubiak (a usually conservative coach) to continue to trust him as he does. Hopefully it's just a nerves thing that he can get over.

Lets not be too quick about this, like we were with Holliday.(sp?) he really sucked out there but it's his 2nd game.

HouTx11
09-15-2013, 05:40 PM
I expected to see this thread bumped due to what happened in the game.

I wasn't worried at the start of the season, because Bullock was making kicks in the PS, but I am now concerning due to today's game. Hoping Bullock turns it around.

Exascor
09-15-2013, 05:42 PM
I don't agree with wonger about much but he's right - we should have every available kicker in on Tuesday. I wanted us to draft Bullock. I'm rooting for him. He has failed so far though. We are shooting for the Super Bowl. We can't afford to not have a backup plan.

LikeMike
09-15-2013, 05:46 PM
They'd better have about 23 guys trying out this Tuesday because Bullock doesn't appear to be the answer....

I think it`s all mental with him... can that be fixed? Maybe... maybe here, maybe he would need a clean start with another team. We have 3 really tough games coming up and we need a kicker that we can trust.

I would monitor him closely - a lot of pressure on this young kid now. How does he handle it? If he crumbles, invite some veterans! If he keeps his head up high and makes his kicks in practice, give him another game.

TheIronDuke
09-15-2013, 05:54 PM
Wasn't one of the positives with Bullock is that he was supposedly unflappable and didn't get nervous? There's three kickers that were drafted when he was who are doing things in the NFL and aren't sucking horribly like the fat Aggie.

burro
09-15-2013, 06:04 PM
What's to think about? We are talking about a Kicker here, we've had a different one every year for the last 4 years without hurting the teams progress. I'm not sure what we risk by cutting him and hiring someone else.

bckey
09-15-2013, 06:06 PM
I agree with Wonger. Bring in some free agent kickers. The Texans can't go through this season with an unreliable kicker. They're struggling enough as it is to win against average teams. They can't afford to spot better opponents good field position all the time not to mention not putting points on the board. Even if they have to sign a kicker that is only accurate under 50 yards I would take it. At least you know what you have and where you need to get to for the kick.

Bullock gets that "Al Del Greco" worried look on his face and it makes me think his problem is mental. But I would take ol Al right now over Bullock.

thunderkyss
09-15-2013, 08:34 PM
Maybe.

I'd give him more than two games. If it's not fixed going into the 2nd half of the season then I'd start looking around.


I might give him more... it really depends. If he were a vet & this was par for the course, he'd already be gone.

But they drafted this guy, they held the roster spot for him. They see something they like. Looks like he's got the legs, both of the 50 yard misses looked like they had the distance for 60.

I'd liked to have seen a close up of the hold.

In a post game interview, he said it felt like good contact, so I question the hold.

thunderkyss
09-15-2013, 08:41 PM
We are shooting for the Super Bowl. We can't afford to not have a backup plan.

Our back up plan is the same as every other team. If Bullock isn't the guy, we'll ditch him & pick up some guy off the street. He's going to be some scrub that nobody else wanted & signing him to the roster in week 3 isn't going to make him better if we sign him in week 15.

Heck, Rob Bironas.... the third most accurate kicker in the NFL (that's what they just said as I rewatch the game) missed a kick today.

This game, the three misses, was probably the thing to make Bullock the most accurate kicker anyone's ever seen from here on out.

BullBlitz
09-15-2013, 10:01 PM
Our back up plan is the same as every other team. If Bullock isn't the guy, we'll ditch him & pick up some guy off the street. He's going to be some scrub that nobody else wanted & signing him to the roster in week 3 isn't going to make him better if we sign him in week 15.

Heck, Rob Bironas.... the third most accurate kicker in the NFL (that's what they just said as I rewatch the game) missed a kick today.

This game, the three misses, was probably the thing to make Bullock the most accurate kicker anyone's ever seen from here on out.

Agree. If they don't give up on him he will probably be fine.

PapaL
09-15-2013, 10:42 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/16/eza7yhej.jpg

Seegara
09-15-2013, 10:45 PM
Maybe you missed it but...Bullock was injured. He tried to play through the pain and it affected his performance. Is it a question mark for the team? Sure but not a big one until we see him in the preseason.
You didn't miss it. Today's performance indicates that Bullock's legendary inaccuracy last season was not caused by being hurt. They say Lechler is also a competent place kicker. Bring him on.

infantrycak
09-15-2013, 10:52 PM
They say Lechler is also a competent place kicker. Bring him on.

They say a lot of things. As a rookie he had one FG attempt and missed. He was 7 of 7 on extra points.

Brisco_County
09-15-2013, 11:02 PM
There seems to be a lack of recognition of what Kubiak was asking of Bullock during this game. By week 2, Bullock is the only kicker to attempt three kicks of over 50 yards. Here is how he compares to other kickers in the league at this point.

Player: 40-50 yard - 50+ yards

Garrett Hartley: 3/4 - 0/0
Dan Bailey: 1/1 - 2/2
Sebastian Janiko: 1/2 - 0/0
Stephen Gostko: 1/2 - 0/0
Greg Zuerlein: 1/1 - 0/0
Jay Feely: 2/2 - 0/1
Nick Folk: 2/2 - 0/0
Rob Bironas: 2/3 - 0/0
Caleb Sturgis: 2/2 - 1/1
Josh Brown: 1/1 - 0/0
Blair Walsh: 0/0 - 1/1
Alex Henery: 2/3 - 0/0
Nick Novak: 3/3 - 0/0
Billy Cundiff: 0/0 - 1/1
Graham Gano: 0/0 - 0/0
Dan Carpenter: 1/2 - 1/1
Steven Hauschka: 1/1 - 0/0
Phil Dawson : 0/1 - 0/0
Adam Vinatieri: 0/0 - 0/1
Justin Tucker: 0/1 - 0/1
Matt Bryant : 0/0 - 0/0
David Akers: 1/3 - 0/0
Robbie Gould: 0/0 - 1/1
Matt Prater: 2/2 - 0/0
Josh Scobee: 0/0 - 0/0
Rian Lindell: 0/1 - 0/0
Ryan Succop: 1/1 - 0/1
Randy Bullock: 1/2 - 0/3
Mason Crosby: 0/0 - 0/0

Two things should stand out: Dan Bailey is having an incredible season, and Randy Bullock has attempted more 40+ yard field goals than anyone not named Dan Bailey.

Other kickers who have already missed kicks of over 50 yards are Justin Tucker, Adam Vinatieri, and Jay Feely. Other kickers who have missed 40 to 50 yards out are Sebastien Janikowski, Stephen Gostkowski, and David Akers.

Those are veterans. Randy Bullock is on game 2 of his career. If Kubiak wants to set up Bullock for statistical success, he will have him kick from the 25 instead of the 40. But Kubiak obviously wants him to develop into a 50 yard kicker, and he is putting Bullock in tough situations in order to learn.

thunderkyss
09-15-2013, 11:09 PM
Those are veterans. Randy Bullock is on game 2 of his career. If Kubiak wants to set up Bullock for statistical success, he will have him kick from the 25 instead of the 40. But Kubiak obviously wants him to develop into a 50 yard kicker, and he is putting Bullock in tough situations in order to learn.

MSR... not that I necessarily agree, but your post makes sense.

I'm not worried about Bullock's last three kicks. I'm worried about his next three.

Playoffs
09-15-2013, 11:13 PM
Adam Wexler ‏@awexler
Last year, Shayne Graham made just 1 of first 5 kicks of 46 yards or longer. Bullock: 0-4 on same distance so far. Graham: 5-12 from 46+ overall last year. #Texans

Graham was 26-26 on FGs less than 46 yards last year. Bullock is 1-1. Team hasn't missed a FG shorter than 46 yards since 2011 season with Neil Rackers. #Texans

Bullock also has 8 touchbacks on 9 kickoffs (4-4 today). After 9 games last year, Graham still only had 11 touchbacks (on 52 kickoffs). #Texans

TexansFight
09-15-2013, 11:16 PM
We should have gone with a winner like Justin Tucker who has been awesome with the Ravens instead of the fat, loser aggy. aggy=losing

bckey
09-16-2013, 06:46 AM
Those are veterans. Randy Bullock is on game 2 of his career. If Kubiak wants to set up Bullock for statistical success, he will have him kick from the 25 instead of the 40. But Kubiak obviously wants him to develop into a 50 yard kicker, and he is putting Bullock in tough situations in order to learn.

Kubiak is putting him out there because the offense stalled and its 4th down. The Texans need the points and Bullock is the kicker. Kubiak is not developing Bullock with games on the line. He is a kicker for crying out loud. That's all he does. The mental part is all on Bullock. Either he handles the pressure or chokes but he is not out there to develop with games on the line. Can he learn from it? Lets hope so but I guarantee you he is on a short leash after yesterday.

Vinny
09-16-2013, 07:35 AM
Those are veterans. Randy Bullock is on game 2 of his career. If Kubiak wants to set up Bullock for statistical success, he will have him kick from the 25 instead of the 40. But Kubiak obviously wants him to develop into a 50 yard kicker, and he is putting Bullock in tough situations in order to learn.

Kubiak is putting him out there because the offense stalled and its 4th down. The Texans need the points and Bullock is the kicker. Kubiak is not developing Bullock with games on the line. He is a kicker for crying out loud. That's all he does. The mental part is all on Bullock. Either he handles the pressure or chokes but he is not out there to develop with games on the line. Can he learn from it? Lets hope so but I guarantee you he is on a short leash after yesterday.yeah, no learning on the job for kickers. Ask Ian "there's no crying in football" Howfield.

I did have some Skip Butler Oiler flashbacks yesterday though. Rare when a player can conjure the Skip Butler imagery of the ball matriculating wide left with the game on the line.

Rey
09-16-2013, 09:54 AM
There seems to be a lack of recognition of what Kubiak was asking of Bullock during this game. By week 2, Bullock is the only kicker to attempt three kicks of over 50 yards. Here is how he compares to other kickers in the league at this point.

Player: 40-50 yard - 50+ yards

Garrett Hartley: 3/4 - 0/0
Dan Bailey: 1/1 - 2/2
Sebastian Janiko: 1/2 - 0/0
Stephen Gostko: 1/2 - 0/0
Greg Zuerlein: 1/1 - 0/0
Jay Feely: 2/2 - 0/1
Nick Folk: 2/2 - 0/0
Rob Bironas: 2/3 - 0/0
Caleb Sturgis: 2/2 - 1/1
Josh Brown: 1/1 - 0/0
Blair Walsh: 0/0 - 1/1
Alex Henery: 2/3 - 0/0
Nick Novak: 3/3 - 0/0
Billy Cundiff: 0/0 - 1/1
Graham Gano: 0/0 - 0/0
Dan Carpenter: 1/2 - 1/1
Steven Hauschka: 1/1 - 0/0
Phil Dawson : 0/1 - 0/0
Adam Vinatieri: 0/0 - 0/1
Justin Tucker: 0/1 - 0/1
Matt Bryant : 0/0 - 0/0
David Akers: 1/3 - 0/0
Robbie Gould: 0/0 - 1/1
Matt Prater: 2/2 - 0/0
Josh Scobee: 0/0 - 0/0
Rian Lindell: 0/1 - 0/0
Ryan Succop: 1/1 - 0/1
Randy Bullock: 1/2 - 0/3
Mason Crosby: 0/0 - 0/0

Two things should stand out: Dan Bailey is having an incredible season, and Randy Bullock has attempted more 40+ yard field goals than anyone not named Dan Bailey.

Other kickers who have already missed kicks of over 50 yards are Justin Tucker, Adam Vinatieri, and Jay Feely. Other kickers who have missed 40 to 50 yards out are Sebastien Janikowski, Stephen Gostkowski, and David Akers.

Those are veterans. Randy Bullock is on game 2 of his career. If Kubiak wants to set up Bullock for statistical success, he will have him kick from the 25 instead of the 40. But Kubiak obviously wants him to develop into a 50 yard kicker, and he is putting Bullock in tough situations in order to learn.

What about the fact that a lot of the guys that have actually kicked long field goals are making more than missing.

I don't think the comparison you're making really matters. Bullock kicks for us. He's been shaky. He's proven that. All yore showing is that other kickers haven't gotten as many chances to show their long FG ability.

But again, Randy has.

Doesn't mean that he will suck forever, but as of right now he has not been good and that doesn't have anything to do with anyone else.

It's like if you took stats at a club of guys talking to women of equal caliber and getting phone numbers.

Guy A: 0/12
Guy B: 3/6
Guy C: 0/2
Guy D: 0/0
Guy E: 6/7

Those other guys not talking to as many women doesn't change the fact that Guy A is looking like a loser.

I'm not commenting on whether or not bullock can get better. But his body of work so far is bad regardless of what anyone else has of hadn't done.

FirstTexansFan
09-16-2013, 10:12 AM
We should have gone with a winner like Justin Tucker who has been awesome with the Ravens instead of the fat, loser aggy. aggy=losing

Still bitter over those two losses to open your season? Now go to the corner with your biased BS :)

Now as to the subject matter, I'm thinking he's inbred, and cockeyed, thus why he either hits it wide right or hooks it left :worldpeace:

steelbtexan
09-16-2013, 10:34 AM
Kubiak is putting him out there because the offense stalled and its 4th down. The Texans need the points and Bullock is the kicker. Kubiak is not developing Bullock with games on the line. He is a kicker for crying out loud. That's all he does. The mental part is all on Bullock. Either he handles the pressure or chokes but he is not out there to develop with games on the line. Can he learn from it? Lets hope so but I guarantee you he is on a short leash after yesterday.

Correct

But seeing that Bullock played for A&M and Gary's lgendary quality of playing favorites when it comes to K's. (Kris Brown) The leash is probably alot longer than we would like it to be.

HJam72
09-16-2013, 12:20 PM
Kubiak to Foster: Don't get a first down, now, because I wanna see if Bullock can make the 50 yarder. :kubepalm:

Brisco_County
09-16-2013, 12:49 PM
Doesn't mean that he will suck forever, but as of right now he has not been good and that doesn't have anything to do with anyone else.

The bolded is the best perspective to have right now. The knee-jerk folks require statistic comparisions and long explanations just to make the point: "Take a moderate approach and consider that this kid is still in development, and it is way too soon to conclude that he's damaged goods."

By the way, Trindon Holliday ran in a touchdown yesterday. That was followed by a nationwide Verizon commerical featuring Jacoby Jones.

Kubiak to Foster: Don't get a first down, now, because I wanna see if Bullock can make the 50 yarder. :kubepalm:

Kubiak to Lechler: Don't punt now, because I wanna see if Bullock can make the 50 yarder.

Which is actually what happened.

jaayteetx
09-16-2013, 12:57 PM
We should have gone with a winner like Justin Tucker who has been awesome with the Ravens instead of the fat, loser aggy. aggy=losing

Looks like Aggies are doing a lot better at winning these days than that other Texas school and I don't have a dog in this fight either, I could care less either way.

Playoffs
09-17-2013, 05:14 PM
Adam Wexler ‏@awexler
Last year, Shayne Graham made just 1 of first 5 kicks of 46 yards or longer. Bullock: 0-4 on same distance so far. Graham: 5-12 from 46+ overall last year. #Texans

Graham was 26-26 on FGs less than 46 yards last year. Bullock is 1-1. Team hasn't missed a FG shorter than 46 yards since 2011 season with Neil Rackers. #Texans

Bullock also has 8 touchbacks on 9 kickoffs (4-4 today). After 9 games last year, Graham still only had 11 touchbacks (on 52 kickoffs). #Texans
Speak of the devil... :stirpot:

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
Steelers released veteran K Shayne Graham.

ObsiWan
09-18-2013, 08:34 AM
Two things should stand out: Dan Bailey is having an incredible season, and Randy Bullock has attempted more 40+ yard field goals than anyone not named Dan Bailey.

Other kickers who have already missed kicks of over 50 yards are Justin Tucker, Adam Vinatieri, and Jay Feely. Other kickers who have missed 40 to 50 yards out are Sebastien Janikowski, Stephen Gostkowski, and David Akers.

Those are veterans. Randy Bullock is on game 2 of his career. If Kubiak wants to set up Bullock for statistical success, he will have him kick from the 25 instead of the 40. But Kubiak obviously wants him to develop into a 50 yard kicker, and he is putting Bullock in tough situations in order to learn.

It would be nice to ease him into pressure situations by letting him kick gimmes first but game situations seldom cooperate with that sort of plan.

If it's technique that can be analyzed and fixed. If it's truly mental, he may be in trouble.

disaacks3
09-18-2013, 02:07 PM
Kubiak is putting him out there because the offense stalled and its 4th down. The Texans need the points and Bullock is the kicker. Kubiak is not developing Bullock with games on the line. He is a kicker for crying out loud. That's all he does. The mental part is all on Bullock. Either he handles the pressure or chokes but he is not out there to develop with games on the line. Can he learn from it? Lets hope so but I guarantee you he is on a short leash after yesterday.

Not sure I can agree. With the game on the line, Kubiak called three very-low-percentage plays in a row and figured he was in Bullock's range. Those were calls designed to not have a chance at a turnover and included the high likelihood that the game would rest on the kicker.

Bullock was definitely in range, but of 3 "real" attempts, only the first on went through. One was a BAD shank, and the other hit the upright.

I like the guy, but I think the issue is upstairs. If I'm an opposing coach, it's worth every timeout I have to ice him at the moment.

the wonger need food
11-06-2013, 07:40 PM
I guess we have our answer now. We have to figure an ultra-conservative organization like the Texans are going to wait until it's way too late before making necessary moves to win football games since this is the approach they have used almost exclusively in the past.