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View Full Version : Brandon Harris: lost cause?


awc713
07-15-2013, 12:55 AM
I was wondering what people's opinions were on Harris. I was excited when we nabbed him in the second round a couple years back, but its been 3 years and I cringe when we put him in.

Opinions on his play, and his 2013 role? If he doesn't produce at a high level this year--is it time to cut ties?

Brisco_County
07-15-2013, 01:54 AM
After quarterback, I think that corners generally take the most time to develop. As long as he makes improvement year over year -- no matter how slowly -- he's worth keeping on the roster. Whether he produces at a "high level" or not, he'll have a role to fill.

Tailgate
07-15-2013, 08:15 AM
Came out early. Has only played in 2 seasons thus far. Patience.

deucetx
07-15-2013, 10:23 AM
I saw potential in his play. He had lapses but that was to be expected. He hadn't played against opposition all year until week 13 against the Titans so to expecting him to walk out there and shine at one of the most difficult defensive positions is bit much. As the season progressed he seemed to finally settle down and improved.

His best showings were against Luck and the Colts so that was a positive. He also played better in his second round against the Patriots....not that it mattered much in the end, heh.

Texan_Touchdown
07-15-2013, 12:46 PM
I liked the Brandon Harris pick. He's an aggressive player and get his share of flags, but I think that will ease with experience. I think this could be a break out year for him. If it is, I wouldn't mind him taking over the nickel. Or man on the slot receiver or something. I heard Swearinger is coming around fast. And that can definitely help out our DB's if we can play man most of the time and give the defense line more time to pressure the QB or TFL's.

thunderkyss
07-15-2013, 01:15 PM
I love Brandon Harris.

Not like, Love.

He's scrappy, he's good in coverage, gets to the ball, & he ain't scurred if yo name be Reggie Wayne.

He got a couple of penalties for being aggressive & not allowing the receiver to push him around. I like it. I'd much rather my guy take that call, than to let it go (the refs weren't going to call the foul on Reggie Wayne) & give up a TD.

I do like McCain, totally different skill set though. We've also McCain play at a high level (2009) a low level (2010), sorta hig (2011), slipp'n again (2012)..... it's going to be interesting to see what the coaches do with those two.

76Texan
07-15-2013, 01:42 PM
Depth in the backfield, or with any unit for that matter, is important.

:worldpeace:

eriadoc
07-15-2013, 02:10 PM
He's a bust. Anyone taken that high in the draft that's done as little as he has is a bust. But he isn't a lost cause.

Mr teX
07-15-2013, 03:13 PM
He only really started getting PT this past year right? If that's the case then what we saw last was to be expected..I think this is the year we find out about him. If he's still :toropalm: then yeah, time to cut bait.

thunderkyss
07-15-2013, 04:07 PM
He only really started getting PT this past year right? If that's the case then what we saw last was to be expected..I think this is the year we find out about him. If he's still :toropalm: then yeah, time to cut bait.

If Kj continues to play like he's playing & Jjo returns to form, the only chance he's got is Nickel Corner. & if McCain plays like he has in the past (in the good years)... he may not get much of a chance to show us anything. The coaches may get to see it in practice, but we won't see that.

Doesn't necessarily mean what we think it means if he's not playing much. We just paid McCain a little bit. Harris is probably still cheap depth.

Rey
07-15-2013, 04:39 PM
& if McCain plays like he has in the past (in the good years)... he may not get much of a chance to show us anything.

That's true, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him playing against certain guys due to match-ups if he's showing his ability in practice. He seems more physical than McCain, so if you have a more physical player running out of the slot Harris might match up better, whereas McCain might match up better against more shifty players.

Or Harris could just simply outplay McCain in the pre-season and camp.

thunderkyss
07-15-2013, 06:22 PM
Or Harris could just simply outplay McCain in the pre-season and camp.

He reminds me a lot of Glover Quin.

the wonger need food
07-15-2013, 06:52 PM
If Harris, Charmichael and McCain can grow together and we can get Kareem back at a decent number, the possibilities are limitless for this secondary. Plug in another young safety and we've got Young Guns II (old Oilers reference).

Mr teX
07-15-2013, 10:40 PM
That's true, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him playing against certain guys due to match-ups if he's showing his ability in practice. He seems more physical than McCain, so if you have a more physical player running out of the slot Harris might match up better, whereas McCain might match up better against more shifty players.

Or Harris could just simply outplay McCain in the pre-season and camp.

Pretty much...Mccain's coming off injury as well so its a very real possibilty Harris could give him a run for some PT.....if he has indeed improved.

badboy
07-16-2013, 09:53 PM
Harris is progressing similar to KJ. Hopefully, Harris will have a good third season as did KJ last year. Problem with that is KJ was on field a lot, Harris is not.

Lucky
07-17-2013, 04:23 AM
Harris is a zone CB (maybe) on a man defense team. Bad fit and not a lot of talent to boot. The Texans didn't draft a CB or sign a vet CB, so I guess Harris' job is safe. Hopefully, Joseph, Jackson, and McCain can stay healthy and limit Harris' snaps.

76Texan
07-17-2013, 11:17 AM
Harris is a zone CB (maybe) on a man defense team. Bad fit and not a lot of talent to boot. The Texans didn't draft a CB or sign a vet CB, so I guess Harris' job is safe. Hopefully, Joseph, Jackson, and McCain can stay healthy and limit Harris' snaps.

Lucky, don't forget that both Harris and Carmichael came from programs that use the same defensive scheme as Wade's match-man coverage.

Even so, I think it's going to be a very competitive camp this year.
I agree with the many posters here who see positives in this secondary.
It is a far cry from 2010.

Lucky
07-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Lucky, don't forget that both Harris and Carmichael came from programs that use the same defensive scheme as Wade's match-man coverage.


Doesn't mean they can play it on an NFL level. I haven't seen enough of Carmichael to have an opinion, really.

gary
07-17-2013, 10:55 PM
I think Reed if he plays will help all of them.

Allstar
07-18-2013, 12:28 AM
Still early, but it's not looking good.

CretorFrigg
07-18-2013, 12:49 AM
I'm surprised I didn't break the TV watching Harris play. Witnessing all his penalties is just absolutely painful. When you watch a player play football, sometimes you see that he has "it." Brandon Harris does not have "it." He doesn't look natural at all playing the position. Get rid of this scrub.

eriadoc
07-31-2013, 04:19 PM
From today's Z Report (http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/houston-texans-practice-notes-wednesday-morning):

CB Brandon Harris is frustrating to watch. He doesn't have the quickness to sit down on routes and still explode after WRs who are making cuts and that is a big problem. The good news is that he's got pretty good ball skills and when he's in position to make a play, he's pretty good at making that play.

thunderkyss
07-31-2013, 06:01 PM
From today's Z Report (http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/houston-texans-practice-notes-wednesday-morning):
Originally Posted by Lance Zierlein
CB Brandon Harris is frustrating to watch. He doesn't have the quickness to sit down on routes and still explode after WRs who are making cuts and that is a big problem.


That must be why Rick Smith & Wade Phillips traded up to get him.

eriadoc
07-31-2013, 09:06 PM
That must be why Rick Smith & Wade Phillips traded up to get him.

Well, it sure couldn't be because they planned on playing him, because they haven't. Even the best GMs and coaches miss on players. The best ones don't exacerbate the mistake by forcing the issue. If the guy can't play, try to coach him up and see what you can do. If nothing, cut him loose. Harris is closer to being cut loose than he is to starting.

DocBar
07-31-2013, 11:48 PM
Harris will be fine. None of us knows why is hasn't played a lot, but the answer could simply be a numbers thing. Kubes isn't known for putting the best player on the field. He's better known for putting the best reputation on the field. See also Cody and Mitchell. Or Foster waiting behind who he waited behind.

The Pencil Neck
07-31-2013, 11:59 PM
Harris will be fine. None of us knows why is hasn't played a lot, but the answer could simply be a numbers thing. Kubes isn't known for putting the best player on the field. He's better known for putting the best reputation on the field. See also Cody and Mitchell. Or Foster waiting behind who he waited behind.

I totally and completely disagree with that.

Foster has said himself that he wasn't ready to play. And when he started to show some life and got put in, he promptly fumbled and had to work his way back in.

If Kubiak played people because of their reputation, then Keenan McCardell and Roosevelt Colvin would have been on the field instead of cut during TC.

The thing about Kubiak is that he doesn't trust rookies and he prefers to ease them in. BUT... I don't think he has a ton of input on which DBs play and which ones don't. I think Brandon Harris was drafted in an attempt to patch up the Kareem Jackson problem. But KJ stepped up and started playing better. That would have allowed Harris to play the slot where he should be a better fit except that McCain outplayed him.

The reason Harris isn't on the field is because he's not one of the best CBs we have. Even Alan Ball was better than Harris is.

badboy
08-01-2013, 12:28 AM
I totally and completely disagree with that.

Foster has said himself that he wasn't ready to play. And when he started to show some life and got put in, he promptly fumbled and had to work his way back in.

If Kubiak played people because of their reputation, then Keenan McCardell and Roosevelt Colvin would have been on the field instead of cut during TC.

The thing about Kubiak is that he doesn't trust rookies and he prefers to ease them in. BUT... I don't think he has a ton of input on which DBs play and which ones don't. I think Brandon Harris was drafted in an attempt to patch up the Kareem Jackson problem. But KJ stepped up and started playing better. That would have allowed Harris to play the slot where he should be a better fit except that McCain outplayed him.

The reason Harris isn't on the field is because he's not one of the best CBs we have. Even Alan Ball was better than Harris is.I agree with part of what you say. Joseph, KJ and McCain are better than Harris who is 4th IMO. He should be fine this year but does need to step it up. Many of us knocked KJ until his third season. Add an improved Carmichael & we should be good to go at corner.

thunderkyss
08-01-2013, 12:33 AM
Well, it sure couldn't be because they planned on playing him, because they haven't. Even the best GMs and coaches miss on players. The best ones don't exacerbate the mistake by forcing the issue. If the guy can't play, try to coach him up and see what you can do. If nothing, cut him loose. Harris is closer to being cut loose than he is to starting.

Miss because the player doesn't have the work ethic, the mental capacity, the minimum amount of maturity required.... yes. Players with "major" flaws in talent & ability (for their position) don't usually get drafted in the second round (unless it's Tim Tebow).

You'll draft an Amobi Okoye because he's got the size, strength, speed, burst, explosion that has been successful in the NFL. Maybe he'll need to add a little weight. Maybe he plays a little high. Heck, I'd draft a corner lacking world class speed because I can compensate with scheme.

But if a corner can't break & run, but you drafted him in the second, he'd have been moved to safety immediately.

eriadoc
08-01-2013, 12:33 AM
None of us knows why is hasn't played a lot ...

Speak for yourself. The rest of us know damn good and well why he hasn't played a lot. He's not been good. When you can't find any playing time as a 2nd round draft pick in a secondary that has shown a need for guys behind JJo and KJ (and even in place of KJ earlier), it's pretty obvious why you aren't playing.

thunderkyss
08-01-2013, 12:40 AM
I agree with part of what you say. Joseph, KJ and McCain are better than Harris who is 4th IMO. He should be fine this year but does need to step it up. Many of us knocked KJ until his third season. Add an improved Carmichael & we should be good to go at corner.

I liked what little bit I saw of Brandon Harris more than the season I saw out of McCain in 2012.

I think McCain plays small. He's got good speed, can change direction well, good coverage skills. But there ain't no guarantee that slot receiver is going to be a little guy. Percy Harvin would have physically abused McCain...... imo, McCain plays small.

Harris is a lot more physical.... maybe he's got short man syndrome, but he's going to get in your grill & make you work for your spot. I like that. He's got a good burst, & though he may not be as fast as McCain, he's more explosive.

Waaaaayyyy too much confidence & if I had to guess, that's what's keeping him off the field.

badboy
08-01-2013, 12:50 AM
I liked what little bit I saw of Brandon Harris more than the season I saw out of McCain in 2012.

I think McCain plays small. He's got good speed, can change direction well, good coverage skills. But there ain't no guarantee that slot receiver is going to be a little guy. Percy Harvin would have physically abused McCain...... imo, McCain plays small.

Harris is a lot more physical.... maybe he's got short man syndrome, but he's going to get in your grill & make you work for your spot. I like that. He's got a good burst, & though he may not be as fast as McCain, he's more explosive.

Waaaaayyyy too much confidence & if I had to guess, that's what's keeping him off the field.A CB cannot have too much confidence. Harvin may light up Harris but he cannot stay on a team; was just traded IIRC. There will always be some player that can beat one of our guys. I think Harris will be Joseph's back up. On another subject, I think Pleasant beats out Keo.

thunderkyss
08-01-2013, 01:32 AM
A CB cannot have too much confidence.

Agreed. When I'm talking about too much confidence keeping him off the field, I'm imagining some kind of entitlement attitude where he's not working as hard as he should, or whatever that has him in the coaches dog-house. I don't think it's his lack of ability to play this game at this level.

Playoffs
06-09-2014, 07:55 PM
Last chance for romance...

PDS ‏@PatDStat
Brandon Harris continued on the new staff. “I think it is a clean slate for everybody. Just all depends what you do with it.” #Texans

Brandon Harris “New impressions, new staff. Myself as well as everybody else has an opportunity to earn the proper playing time.” #Texans

mussop
06-09-2014, 10:50 PM
Last chance for romance...

PDS ‏@PatDStat

Has there been one single positive thing said about him by any of the coaching staff or people attending the workouts?

Playoffs
06-09-2014, 10:55 PM
Has there been one single positive thing said about him by any of the coaching staff or people attending the workouts?

Yes.

Seegara
06-10-2014, 11:13 AM
If there's a spot on the roster, give Harris some time to develop. Remember Kareem used to look like a stirred pot of ____ but developed into a decent, though not great, CB. Harris might do as well.

Let's all pray to the high heavens that this defense won't be another all-man-coverage/zone-helpless concoction. If they, hopefully, play some zone then Harris could fit in.

badboy
06-10-2014, 11:24 AM
If there's a spot on the roster, give Harris some time to develop. Remember Kareem used to look like a stirred pot of ____ but developed into a decent, though not great, CB. Harris might do as well.

Let's all pray to the high heavens that this defense won't be another all-man-coverage/zone-helpless concoction. If they, hopefully, play some zone then Harris could fit in.

Agreed but it is time for Brandon to step up. Mocked him out of school as late round one and when we did not take him in second, I was stunned which turned to excitement when we trade back into second to select him.

thunderkyss
06-10-2014, 07:12 PM
Agreed but it is time for Brandon to step up. Mocked him out of school as late round one and when we did not take him in second, I was stunned which turned to excitement when we trade back into second to select him.

I thought he played well when he got to play. Rookie mistakes, sure, but with the playing time he's been getting, that should be expected. I think Kubiak didn't like him. Like Tate, I think he was a Rick Smith pick & Kubiak took it out on the kid.

infantrycak
06-10-2014, 08:05 PM
I thought he played well when he got to play. Rookie mistakes, sure, but with the playing time he's been getting, that should be expected. I think Kubiak didn't like him. Like Tate, I think he was a Rick Smith pick & Kubiak took it out on the kid.

If we're going for pure speculation, I bet Kubiak didn't say jack sh!t about who got played on D.

thunderkyss
06-10-2014, 08:37 PM
If we're going for pure speculation, I bet Kubiak didn't say jack sh!t about who got played on D.

To further speculate, I bet Wade chose Gary's side as coaches like to stick together & don't need "the man" telling them who to play.

JRingo
06-10-2014, 08:50 PM
Showed a lot of promise to me especially in coverage. If he and Swearinger can get past boneheaded penalties then I am optimistic..

IBleedTexans
06-10-2014, 09:18 PM
To further speculate, I bet Wade chose Gary's side as coaches like to stick together & don't need "the man" telling them who to play.

To speculate even further, I bet Rick didn't like Gary's wife because she didn't bake him those cookies he asked for.....

infantrycak
06-10-2014, 10:02 PM
To further speculate, I bet Wade chose Gary's side as coaches like to stick together & don't need "the man" telling them who to play.

I guess you missed the point of the prior post which was Kubiak wasn't dictating who played on D. Wade wouldn't have been siding with Kubiak, if Kubiak was involved at all it would have been Kubiak siding with Wade on a call like which DB plays (which is not a GM call at all). I wanted to see more of Harris as well but trying to lay him not playing more on Kubiak is foolishness. I'd look first at the DB coach and then at the DC. Whether Brandon Harris was on the field didn't even make Kubiak's Giveacrapometer.

steelbtexan
06-10-2014, 10:46 PM
I guess you missed the point of the prior post which was Kubiak wasn't dictating who played on D. Wade wouldn't have been siding with Kubiak, if Kubiak was involved at all it would have been Kubiak siding with Wade on a call like which DB plays (which is not a GM call at all). I wanted to see more of Harris as well but trying to lay him not playing more on Kubiak is foolishness. I'd look first at the DB coach and then at the DC. Whether Brandon Harris was on the field didn't even make Kubiak's Giveacrapometer.

Agreed in this case.

But to some on this MB are apologists for the Smithiak era. They are Teflon nothing sticks to them. Yet the Texans finished 2-14 last yr.

dalemurphy
06-11-2014, 12:01 AM
I guess you missed the point of the prior post which was Kubiak wasn't dictating who played on D. Wade wouldn't have been siding with Kubiak, if Kubiak was involved at all it would have been Kubiak siding with Wade on a call like which DB plays (which is not a GM call at all). I wanted to see more of Harris as well but trying to lay him not playing more on Kubiak is foolishness. I'd look first at the DB coach and then at the DC. Whether Brandon Harris was on the field didn't even make Kubiak's Giveacrapometer.

I agree with everything you wrote. That being said, one of my frustrations with Kubiak was the fact that he compartmentalized offense and defense... What excites me about O'Brien is that he has a much more holistic view of the football team... Collaboration is vital, I think, for an organization to be great. I think it is important that offensive and defensive coaches critique one another. How can a head coach not facilitate discussions like: "as an offensive coordinator, what things on defense give you the most trouble in this situation... what about our defense would you attack as an O.C?, etc..."

After all, shouldn't defensive coaches have valuable input for the offense (and vice-versa) since it is there responsibility to game plan and attack them each week?

steelbtexan
06-11-2014, 12:06 AM
I agree with everything you wrote. That being said, one of my frustrations with Kubiak was the fact that he compartmentalized offense and defense... What excites me about O'Brien is that he has a much more holistic view of the football team... Collaboration is vital, I think, for an organization to be great. I think it is important that offensive and defensive coaches critique one another. How can a head coach not facilitate discussions like: "as an offensive coordinator, what things on defense give you the most trouble in this situation... what about our defense would you attack as an O.C?, etc..."

After all, shouldn't defensive coaches have valuable input for the offense (and vice-versa) since it is there responsibility to game plan and attack them each week?

When did you realize this?

Certainly not last yr when you made bets on the Texans lengthy playoff runs. (That you did not pay)

thunderkyss
06-11-2014, 12:14 AM
I guess you missed the point of the prior post which was Kubiak wasn't dictating who played on D. Wade wouldn't have been siding with Kubiak, if Kubiak was involved at all it would have been Kubiak siding with Wade on a call like which DB plays (which is not a GM call at all). I wanted to see more of Harris as well but trying to lay him not playing more on Kubiak is foolishness. I'd look first at the DB coach and then at the DC. Whether Brandon Harris was on the field didn't even make Kubiak's Giveacrapometer.

You can speculate, I can speculate. The difference is I'm not a bully about it.

infantrycak
06-11-2014, 10:30 AM
You can speculate, I can speculate. The difference is I'm not a bully about it.

Your martyr schtick is tired.

The difference is logic and the available information point toward my speculation, not yours.

V3rm0nt3r
06-11-2014, 05:31 PM
Speculation is stupid.

The Pencil Neck
06-11-2014, 05:33 PM
Speculation is stupid.

That's what I think your mother would say.

:wadepalm:

pappy
06-11-2014, 06:44 PM
Speculation is stupid.

My speculation is that the last group of coaches were strait up man cover , this group are going to be zone coverage . It will mean the talent needs are different so this can be a scheme that suits Harris better than did the last group . :cowboy1:

Playoffs
06-11-2014, 07:08 PM
My speculation is that the last group of coaches were strait up man cover , this group are going to be zone coverage . It will mean the talent needs are different so this can be a scheme that suits Harris better than did the last group . :cowboy1:

I reckon it might be your reckoning is dead on, Marshall Dillon. Least, I'll a be a hopin' so.

thunderkyss
06-11-2014, 07:52 PM
Your martyr schtick is tired.


How many times have you been accused of being a bully now?


The difference is logic and the available information point toward my speculation, not yours.

Not really.

drs23
06-12-2014, 11:16 AM
Speculation is stupid.

You're speculating! :D