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View Full Version : Bigger FA signing Joseph or Howard?


badboy
07-08-2013, 02:35 PM
IMO both Johnathan Joseph and Dwight Howard were huge additions to their respective team. Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance.

The Pencil Neck
07-08-2013, 02:39 PM
IMO both Johnathan Joseph and Dwight Howard were huge additions to their respective team. Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance.

I think Dwight Howard was the bigger signing because he was THE FA of this year. JJo was second to Asomugha. But I think with JJo, you've almost got to include Danieal Manning as a package deal with that signing. If that's the case, the Texans might have gotten more bang for the buck.

But if you're defining "bigger" in terms of how big it is to the team, we need to wait and see if Howard out-produces JJo/DM.

Mr teX
07-08-2013, 02:41 PM
Bigger in terms of name recognition - Howard.

Who i think will ultimately be bigger in terms of impact - Joseph.

TexanSam
07-08-2013, 02:49 PM
Howard, I think. It's hard to compare because the sports are so different. Basketball has only 15 players, with only 7 or 8 who really contribute. Football has 53 players with dozens who contribute. I think the equivalent would have been someone like Peyton Manning signing with the Texans.

Rey
07-08-2013, 03:05 PM
Howard and it's not close. Both in terms of impact and name recognition.

There's only 5 players on the court at a time...And they all play offense and defense...Only 12-15 on the team.

Dwight Howard's addition instantly makes you a top team in the west. As good as Joseph is, he is like 1/30th (including Special teams) of the team. If he goes down, I don't think you're hopes of winning a superbowl automatically go with him. It hurts, no doubt.

But If Dwight goes down, you can pretty much kiss any chance of contention goodbye. That'd be all she wrote.

And then there's all the hoopla that goes with each addition. You got Joseph from the Bengals because you offered more money. You took Dwight from one of THE most prominent franchises in all of sports while you were competing with a few other franchises for his services in which the money was about even...

Then throw in that Basketball is a global sport. Howard is one of the most well know people in the world.

I don't need to wait and see anything. There is no competition. Even if Dwight completely busts (not likely), he is still the bigger signing.

Playoffs
07-08-2013, 03:36 PM
Howard. He's like a foot taller than J Jo.

badboy
07-08-2013, 05:10 PM
Anyone know how to add an ability to vote for this ?

The Pencil Neck
07-08-2013, 05:28 PM
Anyone know how to add an ability to vote for this ?

I think you've got to add the poll when you create the thread. Otherwise, you've got to ask a moderator to do it.

NOTE:
When you create a thread, there's a "Post A Poll" box down at the bottom. You have to fill that stuff out.

DX-TEX
07-08-2013, 05:40 PM
Howard. He's like a foot taller than J Jo.

http://instantrimshot.com/

Playoffs
07-08-2013, 05:56 PM
http://instantrimshot.com/Sorry, couldn't resist taking that layup.

http://www.talkweather.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rimshot.gif

ObsiWan
07-08-2013, 06:40 PM
IMO both Johnathan Joseph and Dwight Howard were huge additions to their respective team. Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance.

Joseph's arrival has helped to result in two division championships. So until the Howard signing results in a couple of SW division titles the signing means NOTHING. Playoff appearances won't carry any weight with me since the Rockets made the playoffs last year without him.


I don't much care which F/A jock the talking heads collectively care to sniff because quite often all the drama and ballyhoo is unwarranted and overhyped and mostly designed to provoke viceral fan reactions which they hope translate into website clicks.


what?...oh sorry... I was soapboxing again wasn't I...?
my bad.

Allstar
07-08-2013, 07:30 PM
One player has exponentially more impact on an NBA team than in the NFL. Like, the difference isn't even close. When you also take into consideration that Dwight is a top 5 player in the NBA and Joseph is possibly top 50, this isn't even a discussion worth having IMO.

thunderkyss
07-08-2013, 08:15 PM
I think Dwight Howard was the bigger signing because he was THE FA of this year. JJo was second to Asomugha.

Was Jjo second? I know some who would have been happy getting Brandon Carr instead. Worked out great for us so far, & while talented, Jjo was nowhere near the star Dwight Howard is in the NBA.

Jjo is like Harden..... an up & comer, could be special player.

Howard is more like Ed Reed, been there done that, without the gray.

Texan_Bill
07-08-2013, 08:22 PM
Was Jjo second? I know some who would have been happy getting Brandon Carr instead. Worked out great for us so far, & while talented, Jjo was nowhere near the star Dwight Howard is in the NBA.

Jjo is like Harden..... an up & comer, could be special player.

Howard is more like Ed Reed, been there done that, without the gray.

Just curious TK....What has Howard done to be in the "been there, done that" crowd??

**************

That asked, I think the Howard signing is HUGE!! Although and as someone mentioned above, the combination signing of JJo and Manning was bigger in terms of talent landed for the money, otherwise known ROI.

Say Watt
07-08-2013, 08:39 PM
Just curious TK....What has Howard done to be in the "been there, done that" crowd??

**************

That asked, I think the Howard signing is HUGE!! Although and as someone mentioned above, the combination signing of JJo and Manning was bigger in terms of talent landed for the money, otherwise known ROI.

Get within 4 games of an NBA Championship? Win 3 consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards? Be voted to the All-Star game 7 times in 9 years?

Some of the criticisms of Dwight are just unfounded. Glad to see though that unlike most of his critics you are at least in support of the move. If nothing else, the least most "fans" could do is start cheering for him now that he is in Rockets red.

Texan_Bill
07-08-2013, 09:06 PM
Get within 4 games of an NBA Championship? Win 3 consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards? Be voted to the All-Star game 7 times in 9 years?

Some of the criticisms of Dwight are just unfounded. Glad to see though that unlike most of his critics you are at least in support of the move. If nothing else, the least most "fans" could do is start cheering for him now that he is in Rockets red.

Context my friend, context........

It wasn't a criticism of Howard. It was a question to TK where he compared Ed Reed (who actually won something) to Howard.

Where are you trying to go with that???

Wolf
07-08-2013, 09:33 PM
Why do I keep thinking that Howard is the Larry Holmes of basketball?

Good player (Howard) good boxer (Holmes). Both came along at the right time.... Howard after the Ewing,Olajuwon,Jabbar,Robinson..etc. era was ending..Homes after the Ali,Forman,Brown etc era was ending


I am not taking anything away from Howard, but just an out loud random thought

Texan_Bill
07-08-2013, 09:40 PM
Why do I keep thinking that Howard is the Larry Holmes of basketball?

Good player (Howard) good boxer (Holmes). Both came along at the right time.... Howard after the Ewing,Olajuwon,Jabbar,Robinson..etc. era was ending..Homes after the Ali,Forman,Brown etc era was ending


I am not taking anything away from Howard, but just an out loud random thought

"I like eggthzzz"

~Larry Holmes

ObsiWan
07-08-2013, 09:45 PM
Was Jjo second? I know some who would have been happy getting Brandon Carr instead. Worked out great for us so far, & while talented, Jjo was nowhere near the star Dwight Howard is in the NBA.

Jjo is like Harden..... an up & comer, could be special player.

Howard is more like Ed Reed, been there done that, without the gray.

Now I'm not in any way opposed to the move. I hope it turns out great and I'll certainly be cheering for Howard and the rest of our Houston Rockets.

However, there are two ways to look at this question: (1) How does this acquisition compare to other highly sought after F/As on the mkt? or (2) What has this person actually done for the team?

If you're answering question 1, then Howard wins; not by leaps and bounds, but no question he wins.

If you're answering question 2 - the more important one IMHO - then J.Jo wins since Howard has yet to play a game in a Rocket uni.

Say Watt
07-08-2013, 10:50 PM
Context my friend, context........

It wasn't a criticism of Howard. It was a question to TK where he compared Ed Reed (who actually won something) to Howard.

Where are you trying to go with that???

Dwight Howard gotten farther on his own in his respective profession than Ed Reed got in his. Now, that has less to do with ability and more to do with the differences between the two games (basketball being much more easily influenced by one single individual), but you can't deny Dwight has been a success. Barkley, Malone, Reggie, etc never won championships yet are still all-time greats. Dwight needs to win one, but you can't devalue the guy simply because he hasn't won a championship YET.

Where am I trying to go with that? Nowhere. I complimented you on being a true fan.

The Pencil Neck
07-09-2013, 12:59 AM
Was Jjo second? I know some who would have been happy getting Brandon Carr instead. Worked out great for us so far, & while talented, Jjo was nowhere near the star Dwight Howard is in the NBA.

Jjo is like Harden..... an up & comer, could be special player.

Howard is more like Ed Reed, been there done that, without the gray.

According to WalterFootball (http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2011CB.php), the FA CB rankings that year were:


1. Nnamdi Asomugha (5 stars)
2. Johnathon Joseph (4.5 stars)
3. Champ Bailey (4.5 stars)
4. Brandon Carr (RFA) (4 stars)
5. Brent Grimes (RFA) (4 stars)
6. Chris Carr (3.5 stars)
7. Nate Clements (3.5 stars)

Danieal Manning was a 4 star FA and ranked 3rd behind Eric Weddle and Dawan Landry.

Texn4life
07-09-2013, 02:13 AM
This is a good off season thread...... Good job. I'm going to ride with Howard as well. I can't remember the last time I was so caught up in free agency like I have been and DH12 is the biggest reason. Love him or hate him he's a game changer.

Joseph helped change things in our secondary, but we also had Watt and Wade come in the same year so its hard to guage how much of an impact he really had.

badboy
07-09-2013, 11:22 AM
This is a good off season thread...... Good job. I'm going to ride with Howard as well. I can't remember the last time I was so caught up in free agency like I have been and DH12 is the biggest reason. Love him or hate him he's a game changer.

Joseph helped change things in our secondary, but we also had Watt and Wade come in the same year so its hard to guage how much of an impact he really had.Thanks! As a fan of both Texans and Rockets (and hopefully a resurrected fan in future of Astros), I have thoroughly enjoyed this offseason more than others. We could also compare Ric Smith and Morey as both have detractors and supporters with both teams being in playoffs and possibly poised for a championship run. Interesting players on both teams with weaker positions on rosters noted. Also will be fun and hopefully exciting to watch further player moves.

thunderkyss
07-09-2013, 07:56 PM
Jjo didn't have one pro-bowl to his credit, not one All-pro. We knew he was young, we knew he had talent, we knew he could play the position & could possibly be a star. If Kareem Jackson hit the market today, people would pretty much think of him the way we thought about Jjo.

Johnathan Joseph was arguably the second best CB of that FA period.

Dwight Howard could have been a FA last year. He would have been considered the best Center available. He could have been a FA the year before. He would have been considered the best Center available. If he's a FA next year, he will be considered the best Center available.

I love Jjo & I'm glad he's a Texan. But he was nowhere near the star that Dwight Howard is. There's no way he was a bigger FA signing.

Better? That can be argued. More productive.... we'll have to wait & see. But signing Asomugha would have been "equivalent" to signing Howard. Drew Brees would have been equivalent to signing Howard. Heaven forbid if Jj Watt its the FA market, whoever signs him, that would be equivalent to landing Dwight Howard.

ObsiWan
07-10-2013, 06:58 AM
This is a good off season thread...... Good job. I'm going to ride with Howard as well. I can't remember the last time I was so caught up in free agency like I have been and DH12 is the biggest reason. Love him or hate him he's a game changer.
I'll have to concede that the Howard acquisition has renewed my interest in the Rockets also. I had written them off in 2010 and again in 2011. Then we got Harden and made the playoffs once more. Now we have a true big man again, and I'm definitely interested. At least enough to watch and see which Howard shows up. If Superman shows up, we will be a force in the West. If he's not, then we're pretty much were we where last year; good enough to make the playoffs but not much else.

Joseph helped change things in our secondary, but we also had Watt and Wade come in the same year so its hard to guage how much of an impact he really had.
I think J-Jo and Manning solidified the secondary and, to some degree, accelerated the progression/improvement of K-Jax as a solid CB.

Again, it boils down to whether the OP's question is regarding the resume each respective guy brought to the team or the eventual improvement his arrival actually caused. Howard wins the resume' question, no doubt. His impact remains to be seen.

badboy
07-10-2013, 10:48 AM
I'll have to concede that the Howard acquisition has renewed my interest in the Rockets also. I had written them off in 2010 and again in 2011. Then we got Harden and made the playoffs once more. Now we have a true big man again, and I'm definitely interested. At least enough to watch and see which Howard shows up. If Superman shows up, we will be a force in the West. If he's not, then we're pretty much were we where last year; good enough to make the playoffs but not much else.


I think J-Jo and Manning solidified the secondary and, to some degree, accelerated the progression/improvement of K-Jax as a solid CB.

Again, it boils down to whether the OP's question is regarding the resume each respective guy brought to the team or the eventual improvement his arrival actually caused. Howard wins the resume' question, no doubt. His impact remains to be seen.As the original poster, I will refer back to OP.

"Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance. "
__________________

ObsiWan
07-10-2013, 11:43 AM
As the original poster, I will refer back to OP.

"Please keep in mind that JJ has had time to actually shine with his new team so use that to balance. "
__________________

I saw that. Don't know how you "balance" two years worth of data with no data.

The great things folks did elsewhere hasn't always traveled with them to Houston. Ahman Green had a good resume'. So did Charles Barkley. Neither did much to get those teams into championship contention. J. Lin was All-ESPN when in NY, kinda fizzled when he came back to Houston. Hence, my wait and see position.

badboy
07-10-2013, 12:25 PM
I saw that. Don't know how you "balance" two years worth of data with no data.

The great things folks did elsewhere hasn't always traveled with them to Houston. Ahman Green had a good resume'. So did Charles Barkley. Neither did much to get those teams into championship contention. J. Lin was All-ESPN when in NY, kinda fizzled when he came back to Houston. Hence, my wait and see position.My thought was to not use JJ's two seasons to influence a decision compared to Howard with no history with Rockets. In other words, compare Joseph at the time he was signed to Howard's signing with no games yet played for either Houston team.

VTexan
07-11-2013, 01:06 PM
Bigger in terms of name recognition - Howard.

Who i think will ultimately be bigger in terms of impact - Joseph.

you drink the kool-aid pinkies out, correct?

Rey
07-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Kareem was a better player for us last year than Joseph.

ObsiWan
07-12-2013, 01:29 AM
My thought was to not use JJ's two seasons to influence a decision compared to Howard with no history with Rockets. In other words, compare Joseph at the time he was signed to Howard's signing with no games yet played for either Houston team.

in that case, it's Howard, no question. Resume', name recognition, media attention... Howard wins hands down.

badboy
07-12-2013, 10:51 AM
you drink the kool-aid pinkies out, correct?

I can only assume that you are refering to Joseph? Please expound.

Mr teX
07-12-2013, 12:10 PM
you drink the kool-aid pinkies out, correct?

WTF does that even mean? I picked J-Jo over Howard in terms of impact b/c his impact is likely to be felt more and be far greater from game to game and season than Howard's is/will be imo. That's largely b/c of the disparity in games between the 2 leagues.....1game playoff vs. best of 7 series results etc...

- 1 single int by J Jo. has the potential to change a game completely.....................at any time. That works in reverse too.

- 1 single play by Dwight Howard won't have that impact from game to game..............unless the conditions are right...i.e. a few seconds left on the clock and he comes up with a game winning shot, block, or steal.

& lets be real here, J Jo's impact in 2011 was far greater than any defensive player we had on the team at that point. People forget he ended the season with 4 ints, but he should've had at least 1 more int and 2 more TD's..........all from the steelers game which were called back due to penalties on Manning and Watt. The late int return for TD 1 and the blocked punt return. We were also dead last in pass defense 2010 and vaulted to #3 in 2011.

Even if you don't give him any credit for the tutelage of K-jax, and you take into account Wade and Manning also coming here, we were/are still immearsurably better in the secondary with him than we were without him....even if he wasn't 100% last year.

With Howard, i see the team being better defensively, and record wise...i just don't see us being that much better than we were last year with him in the playoffs.

thunderkyss
07-12-2013, 04:54 PM
WTF does that even mean? I picked J-Jo over Howard in terms of impact b/c his impact is likely to be felt more and be far greater from game to game and season than Howard's is/will be imo. That's largely b/c of the disparity in games between the 2 leagues.....1game playoff vs. best of 7 series results etc...


I think he is saying adding Howard to the Rockets make them a Title contender. If the Texans are a Championship contender, Joseph is a much smaller part of that than Dwight is for the Rockets.

Harden & Howard=> Rockets are a Contender

Trade Asik, Lin, Parsons..... anyone but Harden & the Rockets are a contender.


Jjo was our second best CB last season. Howard will never be the 2nd best Center on the Rockets.