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View Full Version : [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?


ASidd_1990
06-11-2013, 01:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9365860/baltimore-ravens-release-vonta-leach-eyes-return-houston-texans?

The Baltimore Ravens released three-time Pro Bowl fullback Vonta Leach on Tuesday and re-signed tight end Billy Bajema.

A league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that the Ravens tried to trade Leach but were unable to find a taker. His agent, meanwhile, told a Houston television station that his client would like to return to the Houston Texans.

"We've had lots of discussion in the past week with Vonta and his agent, and both parties agreed that it was best to terminate Vonta's contract," Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said in a statement

"He played a significant role in helping us get to the AFC Championship Game in 2011 and win the Super Bowl last season. He added to our toughness and will to win, plus he provided leadership. He's a good football player. There could be an opportunity for him to return to the Ravens once he explores the free-agent market, and we could re-visit this before or during training camp."

Leach's agent told KRIV-TV in Houston that the Texans, who Leach played for from 2007-10, are at the top of the fullback's wish list and he would reach out to the team soon to see if they are interested.

"Obviously, which teams you have the best fit at," agent Ralph Vitolo told KRIV-TV. "The most logical fit and the smoothest transition to another team would be Houston because he's already been there.

"He understands the coaches, the scheme. He's worked with Arian Foster and the rest of the offensive line, so it would be a very smooth transition to go back to Houston."

It is unknown if the Texans, who signed veteran fullback Greg Jones earlier this offseason, would be interested in signing Leach.

Thoughts? We already signed Greg Jones and have Tyler Clutts on the roster. But we'd easily have the best run blocker tandem with Jones/Leach.

Do we even have the capspace for him?

Section516
06-11-2013, 01:23 PM
If he is eying a Texans return, he should know its going to be on a lower end contract - Otherwise he wouldn't be returning from the Ravens. He knows where our limit was last time, and knows its going to be below that.. Who knows!

EllisUnit
06-11-2013, 01:42 PM
Would love to have leach back, but we have jones now. So i dont know if it will happen. I do know Leach made foster a better RB though, and gave him lots of room !

False Start
06-11-2013, 01:47 PM
I would love to have the Leachness Monster back. Only thing is what are they gonna do about Greg Jones?

TexanSam
06-11-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't think the Texans would have much interest. Leach is better than Greg Jones, but not that much better.

deucetx
06-11-2013, 02:34 PM
I don't think the Texans would have much interest. Leach is better than Greg Jones, but not that much better.

Yeah have to agree with this. Not to mention it isn't a position that is on the football too often and Leach was making quite a bit for a FB. If he couldn't restructure that I doubt he'd drop to a number we're okay with.

Thorn
06-11-2013, 02:39 PM
As much as I'd love to see him back with us, you won't see Leach coming back to the Texans. To many dollars involved in this one. Still, I'd love to see Leach blocking for Foster again.

Rey
06-11-2013, 02:45 PM
I prefer Greg Jones in this offense.

TexanSam
06-11-2013, 02:48 PM
I prefer Greg Jones in this offense.

Can he catch the ball? I don't know much about him other than he must be good if he helped MJD run for all those yards even when the rest of the Jags offense was awful.

ChampionTexan
06-11-2013, 02:51 PM
As much as I'd love to see him back with us, you won't see Leach coming back to the Texans. To many dollars involved in this one. Still, I'd love to see Leach blocking for Foster again.

Yep - if Leach was totally unconcerned about how much he makes, he'd still be with the Ravens.

The Pencil Neck
06-11-2013, 02:53 PM
Can he catch the ball? I don't know much about him other than he must be good if he helped MJD run for all those yards even when the rest of the Jags offense was awful.

Receiving isn't something he's known for. Leach is more of a threat out of the backfield based purely on stats.

But I don't know if that's any issue with Jones' hands or his QBs or the offense he was in.

Goodwrench3
06-11-2013, 03:10 PM
would be great. But it is very unlikely to happen

Tesuns
06-11-2013, 03:15 PM
Want the player, but don't want his contract. The Texans should add Leach, only if he accepts a discount and lesser of a role, if G.Jones is holding it at that position.

HOU-TEX
06-11-2013, 03:18 PM
Too bad he wasn't released around 2 months and 16 days ago. Might've had a chance of coming back

Corrosion
06-11-2013, 03:41 PM
Too bad he wasn't released around 2 months and 16 days ago. Might've had a chance of coming back

^^:cool:^^


/end thread.

tru80texan
06-11-2013, 04:09 PM
Would love to have leach back, but we have jones now. So i dont know if it will happen. I do know Leach made foster a better RB though, and gave him lots of room !

Eh, I don't know about that. They worked together roughly just a little more then 1 season, which doesn't seem like a whole lot to judge on. Arian did have his best season w/ Leach at the lead but Arian continued to produce pretty well once Leach was gone & actually slightly outproduced Ray Rice in yards over the last 2 seasons who had Leach leading the way for him.

I like Leach, but I think Jones has a bit more to offer if he can stay healthy. Jones has been considered the best FB in the past & having been a former tailback in college & having filled in for MJD in the past in a pinch, I think his physical capabilities outweigh Leach's in terms of being able to run & catch the ball. Jones seemed to be limited in an absolutely horrible offense in Jax, but he still led MJD to being amongst the best despite MJD being the focus of every defense they faced.

Leach may overvalue his skills, which means his price tag will reflect it IMO. I can't see the Texans ditching Jones or stashing Leach on the bench, so I believe Leach may have to look elsewhere for employment. At least he got a ring...

infantrycak
06-11-2013, 04:20 PM
Jones has been considered the best FB in the past & having been a former tailback in college & having filled in for MJD in the past in a pinch

Jones in theory is the better runner but he hasn't received any significant carries in 6 years.

Jones has been considered an excellent lead blocker but the best? You would think he would have some sort of pro-bowl or all-pro accolades and he has none.

Speedy
06-11-2013, 04:28 PM
The Texans roll out their 3 TE, 2 FB set.

Thorn
06-11-2013, 04:30 PM
The Texans roll out their 3 TE, 2 FB set.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see that.

Dutchrudder
06-11-2013, 04:31 PM
Can we sign Leach and bring back the Wishbone?

deucetx
06-11-2013, 04:32 PM
Can we sign Leach and bring back the Wishbone?

Yeah but isn't that package more dangerous with a QB that can actually move? Not sure Schaub qualifies, heh.

ObsiWan
06-11-2013, 05:53 PM
The Texans roll out their 3 TE, 2 FB set.

Whenever the Texans leap out to that insurmountable, double-digit, 10-0 lead they will roll out their 3 TE, 2 FB set.

FIFY.
:D

PapaL
06-11-2013, 06:00 PM
Love me some Vonta...but if we had cash to spend I'd rather bring Winston back and fix RT instead of slightly possibly upgrading FB.

thunderkyss
06-11-2013, 06:49 PM
I don't recall Ray Rice being much of a rushing threat in last years play offs. I didn't see a lot of those monster blocks we love to see either.

I don't know if Leach is finally over the hill, lost that step... but I don't think we missed much when he left, I don't think the Ravens gained much when they picked him up.

Nostalgia is great & everything, but when you've moved on, you should keep getting on.

infantrycak
06-11-2013, 07:02 PM
I don't know if Leach is finally over the hill, lost that step... but I don't think we missed much when he left, I don't think the Ravens gained much when they picked him up.

We aren't going to bring Leach back but that is a bit revisionist.

Foster went from 4.9 ypc to 4.4 ypc. Ray Rice went from 4.0 ypc to 4.7 ypc.

houstonspartan
06-11-2013, 07:12 PM
I don't recall Ray Rice being much of a rushing threat in last years play offs. I didn't see a lot of those monster blocks we love to see either.

I don't know if Leach is finally over the hill, lost that step... but I don't think we missed much when he left, I don't think the Ravens gained much when they picked him up.

Nostalgia is great & everything, but when you've moved on, you should keep getting on.

Well said, and I agree. That's also how I feel about Winston. We've moved on, it's time to move forward.

Corrosion
06-11-2013, 07:36 PM
We aren't going to bring Leach back but that is a bit revisionist.

Foster went from 4.9 ypc to 4.4 ypc. Ray Rice went from 4.0 ypc to 4.7 ypc.

Lets hope the transition from Casey to Jones is as good to Foster as Leach was to Rice .... Casey wasn't a FB at all , but he did offer a different dimension to the Texans offense - one I think they failed to take advantage of more often than not.

Texan_Bill
06-11-2013, 08:06 PM
I don't think the Texans would have much interest. Leach is better than Greg Jones, but not that much better.

Sign Vonta to the same exact contract as Greg (or a comparable deal - even if it's slightly more). Surely Vonta knows that he won't make anything close to what the Ravens signed him for (which is why I don't blame him for leaving). Let them compete and keep one, cut the other.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 08:19 PM
Jones in theory is the better runner but he hasn't received any significant carries in 6 years.

Jones has been considered an excellent lead blocker but the best? You would think he would have some sort of pro-bowl or all-pro accolades and he has none.Didn't Vonta have to actively lobby to get pro bowl accolades a couple of years ago?

I don't want to see Leach back in a Texans uniform at all. That's a stand on principal, not his ability. I hold his self-aggrandizement on the same level as Dunta Robinson's "pay me Rick" self-aggrandizement. Just my personal feelings on the subject. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions because I do get personal about some things. :tiphat:

houstonspartan
06-11-2013, 08:35 PM
Didn't Vonta have to actively lobby to get pro bowl accolades a couple of years ago?

I don't want to see Leach back in a Texans uniform at all. That's a stand on principal, not his ability. I hold his self-aggrandizement on the same level as Dunta Robinson's "pay me Rick" self-aggrandizement. Just my personal feelings on the subject. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions because I do get personal about some things. :tiphat:

Agree, for the most part. I was also annoyed by his "Leach to the beach" Pro Bowl campaign.

But, I also recall Owen Daniels doing something similar right before he was selected for the first time.

infantrycak
06-11-2013, 08:38 PM
Didn't Vonta have to actively lobby to get pro bowl accolades a couple of years ago?

I don't see where you get the self-aggrandizing.

Anyway as I recall things the lobbying was by Leach's teammates particularly AJ and Foster:

Texans fullback Vonta Leach has yet to make the Pro Bowl in his seven NFL seasons. Two of his most prominent teammates took it upon themselves on Wednesday to campaign for him in the locker room.
Wide receiver Andre Johnson, a four-time Pro Bowler, wore a “Send Leach to the Beach” T-shirt during his interview session with reporters.
“We are trying to get Vonta Leach over to Hawaii, so I need everybody to go to NFL.com and vote for Vonta Leach and send him to Hawaii,” Johnson said. “I think he deserves it.”

Link (http://blog.houstontexans.com/2010/12/15/johnson-foster-support-leach-to-the-beach/)

Frankly that wasn't needed as he was also 1st team All-Pro in 2010.

thunderkyss
06-11-2013, 08:49 PM
We aren't going to bring Leach back but that is a bit revisionist.

Foster went from 4.9 ypc to 4.4 ypc. Ray Rice went from 4.0 ypc to 4.7 ypc.

You're right. The absence of Vonta Leach is why Arian Foster's ypc dropped half a yard per carry.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 08:56 PM
I don't see where you get the self-aggrandizing.

Anyway as I recall things the lobbying was by Leach's teammates particularly AJ and Foster:



Link (http://blog.houstontexans.com/2010/12/15/johnson-foster-support-leach-to-the-beach/)

Frankly that wasn't needed as he was also 1st team All-Pro in 2010.

Didn't the man wear tee shirts saying Leach for Pro Bowl? That's self-aggrandizement. He left the Texans because they wouldn't make him the highest paid FB in the league. Regardless, I qualified my position as compromised by personal feelings on the subject. I admit my view is not objective. I quoted you because you mentioned Jones not having accolades.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 08:57 PM
You're right. The absence of Vonta Leach is why Arian Foster's ypc dropped half a yard per carry.NOT

drs23
06-11-2013, 09:08 PM
We aren't going to bring Leach back but that is a bit revisionist.

Foster went from 4.9 ypc to 4.4 ypc. Ray Rice went from 4.0 ypc to 4.7 ypc.

I'm sure you're correct with the numbers 'cak but I'm not sure exactly how much Vonta being gone brought to bear there. As has been discussed here on occasion Arian seemed to go down after insignificant contact and I know by watching that he sure did slip and go down significantly with no contact whatsoever.

Sure would like to see him take the rushing crown again and it appears he's noticed the same drop off, thus his self pronounced "re dedication".

Texan_Bill
06-11-2013, 09:09 PM
Didn't the man wear tee shirts saying Leach for Pro Bowl? That's self-aggrandizement. I don't remember all that, but why wouldn't he?

He left the Texans because they wouldn't make him the highest paid FB in the league.
And why would they (the Texans)? He understood the business end of it and took a payday that he knew he would never have a chance to make again. I have no hard feelings for him bailing to Baltimore.

Regardless, I qualified my position as compromised by personal feelings on the subject. I admit my view is not objective. I quoted you because you mentioned Jones not having accolades.
Fair enough. Jones has no accolades because he played on a shotty Jacksonville team, IIRC.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 09:10 PM
I'm sure you're correct with the numbers 'cak but I'm not sure exactly how much Vonta being gone brought to bear there. As has been discussed here on occasion Arian seemed to go down after insignificant contact and I know by watching that he sure did slip and go down significantly with no contact whatsoever.

Sure would like to see him take the rushing crown again and it appears he's noticed the same drop off, thus his self pronounced "re dedication".Don't forget an upset on the OL. RG and RT had a pretty major impact on Foster's productivity.

Texan_Bill
06-11-2013, 09:12 PM
Don't forget an upset on the OL. RG and RT had a pretty major impact on Foster's productivity.

ABSOLUTELY. I meant to mention that in my last post.

I just think you may be clinging on to the fact he left the Texans for the Ravens, where a "Fullback" had a chance to get paid.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 09:17 PM
I don't remember all that, but why wouldn't he?


And why would they (the Texans)? He understood the business end of it and took a payday that he knew he would never have a chance to make again. I have no hard feelings for him bailing to Baltimore.


Fair enough. Jones has no accolades because he played on a shotty Jacksonville team, IIRC.IMHO, Leach was a small cog in a big machine and made himself a bigger part of that machine than was reasonable. I guess I don't really blame him for looking for a bigger payday but don't come crawling back looking for more. IMO, Leach should feel lucky to even get an NFL contract because the FB position is such a nonessential position today. As admirable as the FB position is, in terms of manliness, it's not really essential in today's NFL. I don't see last years failures at RB as a problem with FB play as much as a problem with the right side of the Texans OL.

I still have hard feelings for Leach leaving for Baltimore. Can't help it. Don't apologize for it.

drs23
06-11-2013, 09:19 PM
Don't forget an upset on the OL. RG and RT had a pretty major impact on Foster's productivity.

Not questioning that in the least but we all saw Arian slip and fall on his own, without being touched and going down with minor contact that we've all watched him juke and be gone from prior. Make shift line or not. That's all I'm saying.

infantrycak
06-11-2013, 09:20 PM
I'm sure you're correct with the numbers 'cak but I'm not sure exactly how much Vonta being gone brought to bear there. As has been discussed here on occasion Arian seemed to go down after insignificant contact and I know by watching that he sure did slip and go down significantly with no contact whatsoever.

Sure would like to see him take the rushing crown again and it appears he's noticed the same drop off, thus his self pronounced "re dedication".

Don't forget an upset on the OL. RG and RT had a pretty major impact on Foster's productivity.

Wrong year guys. The years I referenced were 2010 and 2011. Brisiel and Winston left after 2011 so the OL was the same.

The going down talk didn't start until 2012 - often followed by someone making a vegan crack.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 09:30 PM
Wrong year guys. The years I referenced were 2010 and 2011. Brisiel and Winston left after 2011 so the OL was the same.

The going down talk didn't start until 2012 - often followed by someone making a vegan crack.Regardless, I still stand by my opinion. I do not want Leach back in a Texans uniform. I have nothing to back that up. I don't pretend to.

Texan_Bill
06-11-2013, 09:36 PM
Regardless, I still stand by my opinion. I do not want Leach back in a Texans uniform. I have nothing to back that up. I don't pretend to.

At least you're honest about you're hatred for Vonta. Kudos for that.

I think he would be an upgrade over Greg Jones which really, was an upgrade over James Casey (who I liked a lot). Casey gave the Texans a few more options but at the end of the day, as you stated "wasn't a true Fullback".

*EDIT*
OTOH isn't Jones younger than Leach?? That's a factor to consider, too.

EllisUnit
06-11-2013, 09:38 PM
Eh, I don't know about that. They worked together roughly just a little more then 1 season, which doesn't seem like a whole lot to judge on. Arian did have his best season w/ Leach at the lead but Arian continued to produce pretty well once Leach was gone & actually slightly outproduced Ray Rice in yards over the last 2 seasons who had Leach leading the way for him.

I like Leach, but I think Jones has a bit more to offer if he can stay healthy. Jones has been considered the best FB in the past & having been a former tailback in college & having filled in for MJD in the past in a pinch, I think his physical capabilities outweigh Leach's in terms of being able to run & catch the ball. Jones seemed to be limited in an absolutely horrible offense in Jax, but he still led MJD to being amongst the best despite MJD being the focus of every defense they faced.

Leach may overvalue his skills, which means his price tag will reflect it IMO. I can't see the Texans ditching Jones or stashing Leach on the bench, so I believe Leach may have to look elsewhere for employment. At least he got a ring...

Yeah but that was foster best season, not to mention his YPC was at his career high. I dont care i think Jones is a beast, i mean the guy is stout and i have no doubt he can crack some heads and clear running lanes for foster. Jones is the only reason i dont really care, but if not for jones then yes leach would def be needed.

EllisUnit
06-11-2013, 09:42 PM
At least you're honest about you're hatred for Vonta. Kudos for that.

I think he would be an upgrade over Greg Jones which really, was an upgrade over James Casey (who I liked a lot). Casey gave the Texans a few more options but at the end of the day, as you stated "wasn't a true Fullback".

*EDIT*
OTOH isn't Jones younger than Leach?? That's a factor to consider, too.

Yeah well they didnt use casey like they should of IMO. He could of done so much especially if they had thrown it to him more out of the back field, but alomst like when we only had O.D at TE and 1 FB in the game in NE, Kubiak wasnt smart enough to put in our back up FB off the bench and use casey as the other TE. His lack of creativeness is my biggest negative against kubiak.

infantrycak
06-11-2013, 09:44 PM
OTOH isn't Jones younger than Leach?? That's a factor to consider, too.

Basically the same. Jones is a half a year older than Leach.

FTR I am completely excited by picking up Jones - excellent addition.

DocBar
06-11-2013, 09:46 PM
At least you're honest about you're hatred for Vonta. Kudos for that.

I think he would be an upgrade over Greg Jones which really, was an upgrade over James Casey (who I liked a lot). Casey gave the Texans a few more options but at the end of the day, as you stated "wasn't a true Fullback".

*EDIT*
OTOH isn't Jones younger than Leach?? That's a factor to consider, too.I don't hate Leach. I think he's a good player. I'm just funny about some things. I'm glad Mario Williams left due to FA and butt hurt that Leach did. Leach is a productive player that could help us win. Williams is a slug that was a drain on the team that added drag due to the hype that he had "potential" to be a superstar player. My opinion in this is anything but scientific or even well thought out. It's more like my feelings are hurt and I'm mad.

Texan_Bill
06-11-2013, 09:49 PM
Basically the same. Jones is a half a year older than Leach.

FTR I am completely excited by picking up Jones - excellent addition.

Actually, I was totally stoked with the Jones "pick-up"

DocBar
06-11-2013, 09:50 PM
Actually, I was totally stoked with the Jones "pick-up"I'm happy with the Jones pick up and absolutely stoked about the guy in your sig. Hopkins is gonna be a beast for years to come.

Texan_Bill
06-11-2013, 09:56 PM
I don't hate Leach. I think he's a good player. I'm just funny about some things. I'm glad Mario Williams left due to FA and butt hurt that Leach did. Leach is a productive player that could help us win. Williams is a slug that was a drain on the team that added drag due to the hype that he had "potential" to be a superstar player. My opinion in this is anything but scientific or even well thought out. It's more like my feelings are hurt and I'm mad.

Hey man... I totally hear you about Mario leaving but Fullbacks are a dying breed in the League. Eff it, Vonta made a smart decision for himself (and family) by signing with Baltimore BUT he would never,........ EVER get another deal like that again...

Quit bein "mad"................ Think about winning brother!!

Is it Jones? Or is it Leach at Fullback that gives us a better chance to win???

As you pointed out, they are basically the same age, yes? Well, out of the two, who is more in-tune with the offense??

Insideop
06-11-2013, 10:02 PM
Yep - if Leach was totally unconcerned about how much he makes, he'd still be with the Ravens.

If Leach was totally unconcerned about how much he makes, he'd still be with the TEXANS!

DocBar
06-11-2013, 10:02 PM
Hey man... I totally hear you about Mario leaving but Fullbacks are a dying breed in the League. Eff it, Vonta made a smart decision for himself (and family) by signing with Baltimore BUT he would never,........ EVER get another deal like that again...

Quit bein "mad"................ Think about winning brother!!

Is it Jones? Or is it Leach at Fullback that gives us a better chance to win???

As you pointed out, they are basically the same age, yes? Well, out of the two, who is more in-tune with the offense??I hear ya, man. I still have heartburn, though. Like I said earlier, I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions. I would probably make the wrong one in this case. I just have my mad on and can't seem to get over it.

tru80texan
06-12-2013, 01:10 AM
Jones in theory is the better runner but he hasn't received any significant carries in 6 years.

Jones has been considered an excellent lead blocker but the best? You would think he would have some sort of pro-bowl or all-pro accolades and he has none.

I want to say it was profootball focus who ranked Jones as one of if not the best blocking FB in the past. It had to be prior to 2010 because he has been ranked top 3 by them since 2010. I guess I should've said he was ranked as one of the best in the past as opposed to the best, but I still believe it stands true. Either way, Jones is considered a very good FB in his own right & has been for quite some time. Jones' name as been amongst the best longer then Leach's once you consider that Leach was basically unheard of prior to Arian's rise & Leach was the lead blocker for one of the worst rushing attacks in 2009. Leach is good, but he didnt make or break Arian nor will he do the same to Rice imo.

As far as Jones not getting much attention & accolades, he did play for a very pitiful team in Jacksonville, Florida. I think that kind of explains that for the most part.

I'm happy Jones is here & wish Leach good luck, but I think we possibly got the better of 2 when its all said & done imo.

pissknocker
06-12-2013, 01:26 AM
I want to say it was profootball focus who ranked Jones as one of if not the best blocking FB in the past. It had to be prior to 2010 because he has been ranked top 3 by them since 2010. I guess I should've said he was ranked as one of the best in the past as opposed to the best, but I still believe it stands true. Either way, Jones is considered a very good FB in his own right & has been for quite some time. Jones' name as been amongst the best longer then Leach's once you consider that Leach was basically unheard of prior to Arian's rise & Leach was the lead blocker for one of the worst rushing attacks in 2009. Leach is good, but he didnt make or break Arian nor will he do the same to Rice imo.

As far as Jones not getting much attention & accolades, he did play for a very pitiful team in Jacksonville, Florida. I think that kind of explains that for the most part.

I'm happy Jones is here & wish Leach good luck, but I think we possibly got the better of 2 when its all said & done imo.

Word!

myktek2
06-12-2013, 07:13 PM
wouldn't it fun if we installed the wishbone and then had both Leach and Jones blocking for Foster.... lol

Playoffs
06-12-2013, 08:30 PM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Vitolo mentioned financials on whether a leach return could happen. I noted the #Texans cap situation and he said there are always ways.

Leach is still in Miami. Agent on Dolphins: "they have a very strong interest because they need him." #Texans

Vitolo said as this next contract will probably be Leach's last, he wants to be with a contender and where he's comfortable. #Texans

Just spoke with Vonta Leach's agent Ralph Vitolo, who said he spoke with #Texans GM Rick Smith today and there's mutual interest.

Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley
Hard to see Leach #Texans talk as anything other than 1 mutual respect 2 an attempt to generate a market for FB. Barely enuf snaps for 1 FB.

Texan_Bill
06-12-2013, 09:04 PM
wouldn't it fun if we installed the wishbone and then had both Leach and Jones blocking for Foster.... lol

HA!! That's awesome!

Welcome aboard!

ArTex
06-12-2013, 09:08 PM
Didn't the man wear tee shirts saying Leach for Pro Bowl? That's self-aggrandizement. He left the Texans because they wouldn't make him the highest paid FB in the league. Regardless, I qualified my position as compromised by personal feelings on the subject. I admit my view is not objective. I quoted you because you mentioned Jones not having accolades.


Oh NOEZ he WEAR HIMSELF on SHIRT, HIM EGO

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=emdb.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640



In the NFL, you GOT to TAKE THE MONEY.

Maybe in no other sports league is "Pay Me" more UNDERSTANDABLE

Case in point...Vonta Leach here. He got his payday. But then front offices DON'T have near the same loyalty as players, they'll cut a player in no time.

James Casey took the money. Glover Quin took the money. Connor Barwin took the money. But because they didnt wear a T-shirt with a cheesy name rhyming slogan, it makes them "better"?

Just saying that turnover and money reasons happens a lot in the NFL. I think a dying position like fullback should be THE LEAST BLAMED for cashing in, before it falls forever from relevancy and use

Tesuns
06-13-2013, 07:08 AM
Here is what I think happened to Leach wanting to be Texans. After his release from Ravens, Leach's agent called the Texans, but R.Smith (GM) didn't respond, or didn't respond immediately, so his agent went to the media wanting Leach to be Texans. Since word got out that he wants to be Texans, the team had to respond, or look bad for not responding to an ex-Texans and a Super Bowl winner. While this was going on, Leach went to visit the Dolphins. If Leach wants to be Texans, it would of been done already. $ is all over Leach, too bad the Ravens treated him like an asset, every team in the NFL right now are doing mini-camps with most starters set. It feels good that the Texans respect their players more than the Ravens like when we release Jacoby Jones right after the draft giving him ample time before mini-camp to sign with another team. So long Leach, enjoy Miami Beach!!!

AngryNateFTW
06-13-2013, 09:06 AM
He did what was best for his family. Those with hurt feelings can get over it.

If the Texans want him back i'd welcome him back. He loves Houston.

Playoffs
06-13-2013, 12:48 PM
Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley

When Kubiak was asked about Vonta Leach, he said you can always find places for good players. /they could roster 2 RB, 2 FB, 1 p-squad RB

Dutchrudder
06-13-2013, 12:59 PM
Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley

When Kubiak was asked about Vonta Leach, he said you can always find places for good players. /they could roster 2 RB, 2 FB, 1 p-squad RB

Considering Miami is the team most likely to sign Vonta at the moment, I wouldn't put it past the Texans to try to drive up the price of him. Miami is in the AFC afterall, and I think they will make some progress this year. They could be our first opponent in the playoffs next year.

HJam72
06-13-2013, 01:58 PM
Meh, if Miami's going to get him & we're not, then let them have 'im in peace. He can beat up on New England's LBs during the regular season...

HOU-TEX
06-13-2013, 02:26 PM
He'd have to be dying to come back in order to sign here. He'd likely be offered much less $ and splitting time with Jones. I think his agent was just throwing bones to the media

Playoffs
06-13-2013, 02:32 PM
Considering Miami is the team most likely to sign Vonta at the moment, I wouldn't put it past the Texans to try to drive up the price of him. Miami is in the AFC afterall, and I think they will make some progress this year. They could be our first opponent in the playoffs next year.

I think the Texans are giving Vonta respect with their words -- he was much loved in this locker room -- and maybe a little leverage.

I'd be very surprised to see him here.

ObsiWan
06-13-2013, 02:46 PM
I think the Texans are giving Vonta respect with their words -- he was much loved in this locker room -- and maybe a little leverage.

I'd be very surprised to see him here.
Spot on.
Subterfuge, administered out of respect for Leach mind you, may be the operative word here.

Dutchrudder
06-13-2013, 02:47 PM
He'd have to be dying to come back in order to sign here. He'd likely be offered much less $ and splitting time with Jones. I think his agent was just throwing bones to the media

I think we used a fullback on 35% of offensive snaps last year, so I doubt they would bother splitting time between him and Jones. It's one or the other. I don't know how much, if any, guaranteed money Jones got with his deal, but if it's low, then there's a chance we bring in Vonta. I personally don't think it's worth it, unless Jones gets injured before Vonta signs elsewhere.

Rey
06-13-2013, 03:02 PM
Listening to Kubiak talk about possibly adding Leach, it sounds like he'd try to use some two FB sets.

My guess is that in lieu of some of the 3 TE sets that we have seen, he'd use a 2nd FB in the backfield.

Even if it's just a RZ and short yardage package, I think that's enough snaps if you have two good players like that. Also could be used as a grind the clock package when you're nursing a lead.

I really wouldn't expect Kubiak to be the coach to do it, but you could get creative with your short yardage plays. Play action would still be an option because Jones can catch and run a bit if teams loaded up too much for the run. Plus you'd still have OD in the game and either another WR, or another TE.

I'd force teams hands. I'd call it the Fucc U, STOP US formation. I'd run right behind Brandon Brooks in short yardage. Leach leading Greg Jones into the Hole, and Jones leading Arian into the hole.

Oh man...You could have all kinds of counters...You could even hand the ball off to Jones sometimes as a change-up with Leach leading the way.

Texn4life
06-13-2013, 04:22 PM
If either Jones or Leach were younger and were willing to contribute heavy on ST or if Jones could be kind of a hybrid TB/FB type then it might be possible, but I just can't see it.

Corrosion
06-13-2013, 04:59 PM
I think we used a fullback on 35% of offensive snaps last year, so I doubt they would bother splitting time between him and Jones. It's one or the other. I don't know how much, if any, guaranteed money Jones got with his deal, but if it's low, then there's a chance we bring in Vonta. I personally don't think it's worth it, unless Jones gets injured before Vonta signs elsewhere.

Jones’ $1 million deal includes $400,000 in guarantees, including a $160,000 signing bonus.

76Texan
06-13-2013, 06:24 PM
It's always good to have depth at any position.

We had Clutts sitting on the bench until garbage time last year.

CretorFrigg
06-13-2013, 07:44 PM
Leach is going to demand too much. I just can't see us signing him, as many have pointed out.

He's a FB...a position that's slowly dying away in the NFL.

CloakNNNdagger
06-13-2013, 10:20 PM
Jones’ $1 million deal includes $400,000 in guarantees, including a $160,000 signing bonus.



I believe it is only $240,000 guaranteed (Signing Bonus + $80k of base).

Texans_Chick
06-13-2013, 10:31 PM
Jones in theory is the better runner but he hasn't received any significant carries in 6 years.

Jones has been considered an excellent lead blocker but the best? You would think he would have some sort of pro-bowl or all-pro accolades and he has none.

Theoretically, let's say you wanted Leach, and you didn't mind 2 quality FBs because you know what sorts of players they are. You also know the struggles you had with an inexperienced line last year with no true fullback.

So how would you do it?

Maybe you decide that you aren't blown away by your UDFA RBs. Mostly guys smaller than your normal 3 down Texans running back.

So you go Foster/Tate 1 & 2. And then go FB as your 3rd back. Jones could be that guy. And you put a UDFA on p-squad.

You hope your 3rd RB doesn't get that many carries, and you get the benefit of two quality FBs in case one gets hurt. Yeah, FB doesn't get many snaps, but neither does 3rd RB in the ideal world.

And you'd have two fast bruisers you could potentially use for ST if you wanted.

I'm not saying that is ideal. Trend is to use no roster space on FBs. And you don't want to use much money on FB either, especially when it is dear.

Just trying to figure out why you might be inclined to do this and if so how would you structure your roster.

I still think that they aren't really after him but being respectful to him, and throwing him a bone to get more interest in him from others.

Texans_Chick
06-13-2013, 10:32 PM
If either Jones or Leach were younger and were willing to contribute heavy on ST or if Jones could be kind of a hybrid TB/FB type then it might be possible, but I just can't see it.

Leach played ST last time he was here.

DocBar
06-13-2013, 11:15 PM
Paying two FB's in todays NFL world would be a disaster. Stop all this offseason mental masturbation over a marginal position and concentrate on real positions of weakness like DT, ILB and RT. I'd rather see Eric Winston line up at RT than Leach at FB. That includes passing downs and distances. RT should be more of a concern than FB at this stage of the game. Leach is just a "name" that we are familiar with but should be considered less of an improvement at a position than Winston.

Texn4life
06-14-2013, 12:50 AM
Leach played ST last time he was here.

You're right, I remember him contributing for us on ST but I don't recall seeing him on any Baltimore ST. Could have overlooked seeing him, but I can't remember him being on any for them. Factor in 2 additional years of banging and you have to wonder how willing and effective he would be doing it here now.

I'm honestly 50/50 on the idea. If Jones at his older age gets knicked up or injured then we'd be limited offensively especially in the RZ. I see potential benefits with it, but I'd personally rather use that roster spot on another position.

ObsiWan
06-14-2013, 12:56 AM
If either Jones or Leach were younger and were willing to contribute heavy on ST or if Jones could be kind of a hybrid TB/FB type then it might be possible, but I just can't see it.
Wasn't Leach a ST standout while here?

Texn4life
06-14-2013, 01:27 AM
Wasn't Leach a ST standout while here?

Read one post above you.

IDEXAN
06-14-2013, 09:46 AM
Why the hell is Kubiak spending any time on our FB situation when we've already signed a very competent player in Jones to handle that position ? He should instead direct his attention on much important personnel issues like at RT and LB (both inside and outside) ?

PapaL
06-14-2013, 10:33 AM
Why the hell is Kubiak spending any time on our FB situation when we've already signed a very competent player in Jones to handle that position ? He should instead direct his attention on much important personnel issues like at RT and LB (both inside and outside) ?

When asked, he answered a question. He didn't write a dissertation on it. Calm down.

badboy
06-14-2013, 10:39 AM
Paying two FB's in todays NFL world would be a disaster. Stop all this offseason mental masturbation over a marginal position and concentrate on real positions of weakness like DT, ILB and RT. I'd rather see Eric Winston line up at RT than Leach at FB. That includes passing downs and distances. RT should be more of a concern than FB at this stage of the game. Leach is just a "name" that we are familiar with but should be considered less of an improvement at a position than Winston.

Why the hell is Kubiak spending any time on our FB situation when we've already signed a very competent player in Jones to handle that position ? He should instead direct his attention on much important personnel issues like at RT and LB (both inside and outside) ?If we can improve team, why is any position trivial? Why cannot we and Kubiak focus on multi areas? If Winston make his price right, he could be signed as well as Vontae; but maybe just maybe Kubiak sees Harris, Newton and Williams as ample to fill the position. Prior to his injury, Derek was looking good and Gary has constantly said so. Most recent feedback is Newton and Williams will be available in training camp. Nothing negative has been said about Ryan Harris and he should be better as will Gardner. Until proven different, I really like our options on Oline.

Did we really have a good option at FB last season? Perhaps that is why we used one 35% as quoted elsewhere. We went with what we had especially with AJ having great season. A healthy Tate and Foster with fewer attempts behind a rotation of Jones and Leach would be awesome. A strong, fresh FB in almost every play is a good thing for team. We all want to keep the opponent's defense on the field.

Porky
06-14-2013, 11:09 AM
I don't get the Vonta hate - as if adding a good player to any position is some how depleting another area. And let's not forget his ST ability. If they can't fit him under the cap it won't happen. If they can, it very well may.

It's really simple stuff. Don't over think this people. :kubepalm:

beerlover
06-14-2013, 11:12 AM
More protection for Schaub > than numbers can count.

IDEXAN
06-14-2013, 11:37 AM
When asked, he answered a question. He didn't write a dissertation on it. Calm down.
Jones made a commitment to play for the Texas, so the Texans reciprocate by talking openly and publically about perhaps negotiating with a second FB prospect which is the same as saying they might release Jones. Is Kubiak out of line for doing it, not technically but not really good for Jone's morale or for that matter team morale ? Kubiak is usually pretty tight-lipped, but for whatever reason he had a garrulous moment that serves no purpose.

Blake
06-14-2013, 01:43 PM
I always consider adding talented players on the cheap, but I dont know who deserves the boot to make room for him on the roster.

Cap Space? How much does he want?
Roster Space? Who gets released?

welsh texan
06-14-2013, 01:58 PM
I haven't read the whole thread through, but there is the fact that Vonta is a known quantity in this system, and I'm sure that the Jones contract allows him to be a cheap TC cut.

Is it possible that, in our system, we can get better at FB and save money by doing this.

Both guys have made their money now and Jones would catch on elsewhere pretty damn quick. You can't really get upset at a multi-millionaire losing a few quid in the NFL.

HOU-TEX
06-14-2013, 02:16 PM
My thoughts:

I like Vonta a lot and I was upset he left at the time. However, if we're going to use some of our limited money I'd rather spend it on a position of need. I'm kinda kickin myself for what I'm getting ready to say. BUT, I'd use the money on the RT position by bringing Winston back (depending on $, of course). I know, I know, I was one of the one's that harped on him a lot and was satisfied with letting him go. Given what I saw last year and what we're looking at thus far, I'd do it.

I'm willing to bet we've already looked into it and he might've wanted more than we could spend. I dunno, but I remain very skeptical of an injured rook, an injured and below average Newton, a 6th round rook from a small school and a career back up in.

b0ng
06-14-2013, 02:25 PM
I don't see how this would work unless he was signed to a non-guaranteed contract and could be cut in TC if he wasn't as good as Jones in our system. I highly doubt that he refused to re-structure his contract with the Ravens so he could come down to Houston on an extended try-out.

CloakNNNdagger
06-14-2013, 02:47 PM
I don't see how this would work unless he was signed to a non-guaranteed contract and could be cut in TC if he wasn't as good as Jones in our system. I highly doubt that he refused to re-structure his contract with the Ravens so he could come down to Houston on an extended try-out.

May not be the case. To apply some ball park numbers to what Leach may be seeking. From BaltimoreRavens.com (http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-612-Why-Cut--Vonta-Leach-Now-Something-Up-Ozzies-Sleeve/90461a74-ea7e-448c-997a-eb3a9258a0ed) :


“The obvious answer is ultimately, the Ravens decided that they needed the salary cap space more than Leach and it just didn’t make sense for essentially a part-time player to take up $4.33 million in cap room,” Zrebiec wrote. “Still, the pending move does spur some questions …


And while paying $3 million to a part-time player at a position that is fading in the NFL was almost certainly a factor, the timing of Leach’s cut also coincides with the Ravens’ ability to get a good look at their fourth-round draft pick Kyle Juszczyk. After a few weeks of practice, the team has a better idea of whether he’s capable to take over the starting fullback role.

“[The Ravens] wanted to keep [Leach] and thought they’d be able to work something out,” wrote Zrebiec. “If they didn’t, they would have made the move immediately after they drafted Harvard’s Kyle Juszczyk in the fourth round in April. However, as they got closer to training camp, the Ravens’ top decision makers ultimately put more value on salary cap space than Leach’s skill set.

“It’s also important to point out that the team has had several weeks now to evaluate Juszczyk. If they didn’t think he could handle the role, they wouldn’t have made the move.”

Leach Moving On Quickly, Teams Showing Interest

When the Ravens announced Leach’s release, Newsome left the door open for the fullback to return after he’s explored the free agent market.

At this point, a Leach return doesn’t appear likely as several teams are reportedly showing interest.

Leach is scheduled for a visit with the Miami Dolphins, and the Denver Broncos and Kansas City Chiefs may also make a play for the fullback, reports USA Today’s Mike Garafolo. The Star-Ledger reported the New York Giants have "reached out" to Leach.

For Leach to return, these teams would have to offer less than the Ravens. According to Garafolo, Ravens executives were asking for roughly a $1 million pay cut, which he could have made back via playtime and Pro Bowl incentives.

If Leach had his way, he would return to the Houston Texans, where he played from 2006 to 2010 and led the way for running back Arian Foster.

"My first choice would be to come back to Houston," Leach told KRIV-TV, per NFL.com. "I know the offense. I know all the guys there. So obviously that would be my first choice so I can go back there and finish my career where it started to blossom.

ObsiWan
06-14-2013, 03:40 PM
Jones made a commitment to play for the Texas, so the Texans reciprocate by talking openly and publically about perhaps negotiating with a second FB prospect which is the same as saying they might release Jones. Is Kubiak out of line for doing it, not technically but not really good for Jone's morale or for that matter team morale ? Kubiak is usually pretty tight-lipped, but for whatever reason he had a garrulous moment that serves no purpose.

Jones signed a contract and is ready to play. And he looks like a guy comes to play hard. He doesn't seem to be the kind of wuss who would sit around and think of things to pout about. Doesn't seem like the kind of player that would sit around and sulk because there might be some competition at his position.

but that's just my take...

...seems like you're proposing he would be

CloakNNNdagger
06-15-2013, 11:33 AM
From the Sun-Sentinel (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-free-agent-fullback-vonta-leach-continues-weighing-his-options-20130614,0,6207697.story):

The Dolphins, whom Leach visited on Wednesday, and the Houston Texans are the two teams openly pursuing the three-time Pro Bowler, who is viewed as one of the NFL’s best lead blockers. USA Today claims the Kansas City Chiefs and Denver Broncos might reach out to Leach, and the Newark Star-Ledger reported that the New York Giants have “reached out” to Leach’s camp.

Playoffs
06-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Spot on. Subterfuge, administered out of respect for Leach mind you, may be the operative word here.

Remember, too, there's no love lost between Texans & Jeff Ireland. Ireland blocked the Texans from adding Sage Rosenfels when Schaub & Leinart went down. Miami had no use for him, but waited until after we had signed two backups to waive him. Worked out well with T.J., but still...

NitroGSXR
06-15-2013, 05:00 PM
Jones in theory is the better runner but he hasn't received any significant carries in 6 years.

To be fair... neither has Vonta. I was not a fan of him getting the ball. He is super stiff when it comes to catching or carrying.

As an aside, I am neither for nor against signing Vonta Leach. This is a debate that is above my means. I like Leach and think he's sledgehammer. I also like Jones.

PapaL
06-15-2013, 05:04 PM
I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.

Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/50769/why-texans-shouldnt-chase-leach

"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."

"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.

“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”

How much better a blocker, I asked.

“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"

Wolf
06-15-2013, 05:31 PM
If you aren't improving, your losing.

I think this is much about nothing. IIRC Gary has stated that they are always looking for ways to improve the ball club no matter what.

But it is good for offseason talk :)

CloakNNNdagger
06-15-2013, 05:51 PM
I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.

Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/50769/why-texans-shouldnt-chase-leach

"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."

"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.

“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”

How much better a blocker, I asked.

“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"

ESPN speaks of swallowing $400,000 guaranteed money. This is not technically correct. Spotrac lays out his guaranteed money as his $160,000 signing bonus + ONLY $80,000 of his base 2013 $840,000 salary = $240,000.

BullBlitz
06-15-2013, 06:32 PM
I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.

Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/50769/why-texans-shouldnt-chase-leach

"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."

"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.

“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”

How much better a blocker, I asked.

“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"

Given the right side of our line, I'd rather have the Pro Bowl blocking FB.

PapaL
06-15-2013, 09:46 PM
Given the right side of our line, I'd rather have the Pro Bowl blocking FB.

Jones was a Pro Bowl Alt in '07 and Leach has gone twice. Personally, Pro Bowl FB means to much to me as Pro Bowl ST'er.

Both guys have proven not only a willingness but a desire to block.

infantrycak
06-15-2013, 09:52 PM
Jones was a Pro Bowl Alt in '07 and Leach has gone twice. Personally, Pro Bowl FB means to much to me as Pro Bowl ST'er.

Both guys have proven not only a willingness but a desire to block.

Leach is a 3 timer and 3 time 1st team All Pro. Jones is excellent and I was very glad to see the Texans sign him. Aside from ordinary duties, Leach is an enforcer. I don't know either way about Jones on that.

badboy
06-16-2013, 01:23 AM
If Leach cap could be made right, I'd still like to have both and dump a bench guy at another position. BTW, Clutts is still on roster I believe at $555,000 cap space, non guaranteed with no dead $. Not much but that could go to Leach as part of his deal.

CloakNNNdagger
06-16-2013, 08:22 AM
If Leach cap could be made right, I'd still like to have both and dump a bench guy at another position. BTW, Clutts is still on roster I believe at $555,000 cap space, non guaranteed with no dead $. Not much but that could go to Leach as part of his deal.

I can see both Leach and Jones ending up on this year's roster.........Leach lives here, identifies with the Texans, likely to give a home town discount............and I truly believe that Kubiak is actively pursuing him........wanting him and the creative FB-heavy packages he and Jones could bring with it for critical situations that the Texans had few answers and little success in the past.

Lurvinator11
06-16-2013, 01:52 PM
If Leach cap could be made right, I'd still like to have both and dump a bench guy at another position. BTW, Clutts is still on roster I believe at $555,000 cap space, non guaranteed with no dead $. Not much but that could go to Leach as part of his deal.

To me, I feel like the reason we kept CLutts on the roster after we signed Jones, was to run a 2 FB set every now and then. IF we could land Leach, I'm certain we release Clutts, and have a great blocking tandem in Leach and Jones.

When Jones gets tired, get Leach in there, or vice versa.

infantrycak
06-16-2013, 02:51 PM
To me, I feel like the reason we kept CLutts on the roster after we signed Jones, was to run a 2 FB set every now and then.

Please show some of the 2 FB sets used in the NFL last year.

CloakNNNdagger
06-16-2013, 03:32 PM
It would be interesting to see a variation of the old T-formation.

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1021630/T_Formation_PNG.png

PapaL
06-16-2013, 04:38 PM
We probably still wouldn't PA Fake on 1st Goal w that offense. 3 runs and a FG.

Nawzer
06-16-2013, 05:34 PM
There's a 6 page thread about a fullback. My god the off season is long!

DocBar
06-16-2013, 09:36 PM
There's a 6 page thread about a fullback. My god the off season is long!And it's gonna seem longer if we get into talking about 2 FB sets. Jiminy Cricket!! A 2 FB set??? Really?? Hell, it might be so crazy it could work a couple of times. :chef:

welsh texan
06-17-2013, 03:05 AM
Hasn't Kubes been keeping 2 FB's of late? Vickers and that other guy both stuck around with Casey. I know the Casey thing was experimental but this isn't a huge departure guys.

Lurvinator11
06-17-2013, 03:28 AM
Please show some of the 2 FB sets used in the NFL last year.

Just speculation.

ObsiWan
06-17-2013, 04:20 AM
We probably still wouldn't PA Fake on 1st Goal w that offense. 3 runs and a FG.
I dunno.... we've done P/A passes out of three TE sets. Snuck one of the TEs into the flat while Schaub/Foster sells the run. Dreessen used to be pretty good at that in the redzone.

No reason why two TEs and 3 RB sets (with Jones on the end like the third TE and Leach in the backfield) wouldn't totally sell the run fake and get one of the TEs loose for an easy catch.


Heck, maybe Schaub could keep it and bootleg it into the endzone....
:hides:

PapaL
06-17-2013, 07:52 AM
I dunno.... we've done P/A passes out of three TE sets. Snuck one of the TEs into the flat while Schaub/Foster sells the run. Dreessen used to be pretty good at that in the redzone.

No reason why two TEs and 3 RB sets (with Jones on the end like the third TE and Leach in the backfield) wouldn't totally sell the run fake and get one of the TEs loose for an easy catch.


Heck, maybe Schaub could keep it and bootleg it into the endzone....
:hides:

The award for first chuckle of the day goes to you sir. :spit:
Hahaha good way to start a Monday.

Rey
06-17-2013, 08:37 AM
Jones was a Pro Bowl Alt in '07 and Leach has gone twice. Personally, Pro Bowl FB means to much to me as Pro Bowl ST'er.

Both guys have proven not only a willingness but a desire to block.

I think lack of team success has hurt jones in some regard. Leach is not head and shoulders better than Greg jones.

I think it was Cushing that said he was glad that he wouldn't have to be meeting jones in the hole anymore when playing the jags.

deucetx
06-17-2013, 09:24 AM
There's a 6 page thread about a fullback. My god the off season is long!

LOL I had to rep this because I thought the same thing. Six pages on a guy most likely not on the radar just shows how much we miss football.

Hasn't Kubes been keeping 2 FB's of late? Vickers and that other guy both stuck around with Casey. I know the Casey thing was experimental but this isn't a huge departure guys.

No, we just had Vickers and Casey and that was because Casey wasn't a good lead blocker. There wasn't any other FB and of course Casey wasn't just a FB. Jones and Leach are FB's and nothing more. So I would say it's a bit of a reach especially citing the money equation in it all. It would be something else if our FB was...well...Clutts since he's rather poor at blocking. But we're talking Greg Jones one of the better run blocking FB's in the league.

Just doesn't make sense to invest that type of money in one position that sees the field 35-40% of the time.

PapaL
06-17-2013, 09:46 AM
I think lack of team success has hurt jones in some regard. Leach is not head and shoulders better than Greg jones.

I think it was Cushing that said he was glad that he wouldn't have to be meeting jones in the hole anymore when playing the jags.

Good Lord I butchered that post...glad someone was able to make sense of it.

I think they're easily the best 2 FBs in the league. Can't go wrong with either but can we afford a roster spot for a 2nd FB/STer? That would be one hell of a 2 man "wedge", Leach and Jones.

ObsiWan
06-17-2013, 10:34 AM
Good Lord I butchered that post...glad someone was able to make sense of it.

I think they're easily the best 2 FBs in the league. Can't go wrong with either but can we afford a roster spot for a 2nd FB/STer? That would be one hell of a 2 man "wedge", Leach and Jones.

Ooooh... Now THERE'S a very interesting thought...
:texflag:

CloakNNNdagger
06-17-2013, 11:00 AM
Ooooh... Now THERE'S a very interesting thought...
:texflag:

.....then would the player caught in the middle be called "The Wedgee"??........:D

PapaL
06-17-2013, 11:08 AM
Ooooh... Now THERE'S a very interesting thought...
:texflag:

Never have two grown men holding hands been more intimidating! They'd have to be good for an extra 5-10 yards.

badboy
06-17-2013, 12:19 PM
Just to clarify, I am not calling for sets with two full backs. I am saying I would like to see a more run dominated offense with Foster/ Tate running behind Jones/Leach.

Doppelganger
06-17-2013, 05:50 PM
Couple ideas:

1. Could Greg Jones become the #2 RB behind Foster and be used in short yardage? A system where Leach makes a hole for Jones would be potentially scary.

2. Jones has better hands than Leach. Could Jones become the safety valve TE/FB option that acts like a blocker and then drops into the flats to get a pass or two?

3. Use a 2 FB set where each FB runs forward and makes a whole one one side of the OL. This confuses defenses since they don't know which hole the RB would go through. This would make the defense flinch for a second or two which could result in an improved running game.

infantrycak
06-17-2013, 05:58 PM
2. Jones has better hands than Leach.

Why does this keep getting asserted? Jones is a better open field runner I can understand.

PapaL
06-17-2013, 06:16 PM
Why does this keep getting asserted? Jones is a better open field runner I can understand.

It's the offseason. We can't beat each other with any more facts so we might as well :deadhorse

Doppelganger
06-17-2013, 06:39 PM
Why does this keep getting asserted? Jones is a better open field runner I can understand.

I guess I didn't say it as clearly as I wanted. What I mean is he is able to catch the ball a little more easily which enables him to get into his open field running a bit better than Leach. While Leach can certainly catch he is not the same type of open field runner. Jones is a more fluid catcher (i think he was used that way in college too) and can certainly make moves in the open field. Leach is not quite as good, but when he gets the ball will run you over.

I am not sure I would want to sign leach, I was just trying to come up with ways to use him. In a perfect world. I would use the money I would have given leach to resign Winston to play RT...

DocBar
06-17-2013, 07:34 PM
I guess I didn't say it as clearly as I wanted. What I mean is he is able to catch the ball a little more easily which enables him to get into his open field running a bit better than Leach. While Leach can certainly catch he is not the same type of open field runner. Jones is a more fluid catcher (i think he was used that way in college too) and can certainly make moves in the open field. Leach is not quite as good, but when he gets the ball will run you over.

I am not sure I would want to sign leach, I was just trying to come up with ways to use him. In a perfect world. I would use the money I would have given leach to resign Winston to play RT...As much as I disliked Winston, I'd go for this. He's much better than what we have to choose from this year, especially early in the year.

Playoffs
06-18-2013, 10:42 AM
"I know I can play in this league, and I've got some teams that are courting me," Leach said Friday, according to the Daily Reflector. "In the next two weeks, I know where I'll be playing."

Leach has called a return to the Houston Texans, where he earned his first Pro Bowl selection in 2010, his first choice. He visited with the Miami Dolphins last week. Nearly every team that features a fullback has been connected to Leach at some point in the last week.

"There are a lot of teams out there that want me; about seven teams," Leach said. "Me and my agent are going to take our time and see what's the best fit for me. I'm probably going to play three more years before I hang it up."http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000212870/article/vonta-leach-says-hell-pick-new-team-within-two-weeks

disaacks3
06-18-2013, 11:10 AM
As much as I disliked Winston, I'd go for this. He's much better than what we have to choose from this year, especially early in the year. I never disliked him, per se, just understood his weaknesses against speed rushers. He's still a better option right now than anything the Texans have ready.

Can we have both?

:kitten:

b0ng
06-18-2013, 12:36 PM
I never disliked him, per se, just understood his weaknesses against speed rushers. He's still a better option right now than anything the Texans have ready.

Can we have both?

:kitten:

Probably not. There's about 4 or 5 million reasons a year why Winston isn't currently signed. He's probably also going to actually look in earnest for a job once teams are into TC, so he doesn't have to go through that again.

thunderkyss
06-18-2013, 12:53 PM
I never disliked him, per se, just understood his weaknesses against speed rushers. He's still a better option right now than anything the Texans have ready.


I think Newton was an instant upgrade in pass protection until his injury.

I don't like to "hope" that a guy can return to form when preparing for next year. & being that our new guy is also coming off injury... I really don't like the situation we are in.

Picking up Eric would be nice, we can cross that off the list. But at what cost. I don't think he should play over a healthy Newton. So.... how much money do we want sitting on our bench?

Harris fits that bill. We're not paying him so much that he'll go to waste on our bench. We can cut him before the season starts if Newton & Williams are 100% (which we should know a few weeks into camp).

Worse case scenario, we go into the season with Harris starting & Quiz is our only "healthy" second option. For that to happen, both Newton & Williams has to have major set backs with their injuries.

I think that is an acceptable risk/rewards option & I don't see the point of bringing Winston back.

If I looked at the whole team that way my only concern is NT.

Not because we don't have a big fat guy for the position, but because Eric Mitchell is the only known commodity to me. I don't know any of the back up guys. I've seen Crick take a few snaps there, but I don't think it's a position he can "hold down" if needed.

& Safety. Keo is still too high on the depth chart.

CloakNNNdagger
06-18-2013, 02:17 PM
I think Newton was an instant upgrade in pass protection until his injury.

I don't like to "hope" that a guy can return to form when preparing for next year. & being that our new guy is also coming off injury... I really don't like the situation we are in.

Picking up Eric would be nice, we can cross that off the list. But at what cost. I don't think he should play over a healthy Newton. So.... how much money do we want sitting on our bench?

Harris fits that bill. We're not paying him so much that he'll go to waste on our bench. We can cut him before the season starts if Newton & Williams are 100% (which we should know a few weeks into camp).Worse case scenario, we go into the season with Harris starting & Quiz is our only "healthy" second option. For that to happen, both Newton & Williams has to have major set backs with their injuries.

I think that is an acceptable risk/rewards option & I don't see the point of bringing Winston back.

If I looked at the whole team that way my only concern is NT.

Not because we don't have a big fat guy for the position, but because Eric Mitchell is the only known commodity to me. I don't know any of the back up guys. I've seen Crick take a few snaps there, but I don't think it's a position he can "hold down" if needed.

& Safety. Keo is still too high on the depth chart.

I think I know who you meant.

On the other question, my guess is that Harris/Quiz may very well be the two a RT. I have questions of both Newton and Williams being fully game ready by the beginning of the season. I feel that as far as Winston, his idea of a "home town discount" would run something like 1%....he thinks way too much of himself.

False Start
06-18-2013, 03:09 PM
Every since this story came out, its been on my mind. I REALLY hope they can maneuver some cash around to get him here.

Scooter
06-18-2013, 03:54 PM
Please show some of the 2 FB sets used in the NFL last year.

green bay still runs the full house package, and some of the pistol/option teams are using 3 back sets. of course it's usually 2 halfbacks instead of fullbacks, but i could certainly see kubiak doing something like this, especially late in games with a lead.

BullBlitz
06-18-2013, 04:15 PM
I think lack of team success has hurt jones in some regard. Leach is not head and shoulders better than Greg jones.

I think it was Cushing that said he was glad that he wouldn't have to be meeting jones in the hole anymore when playing the jags.

Both of the above statements made because Jones is on the roster.

badboy
06-18-2013, 04:22 PM
Both of the above statements made because Jones is on the roster.

or maybe Cushing actually meant what he said.

Doppelganger
06-18-2013, 04:46 PM
I think I know who you meant.

On the other question, my guess is that Harris/Quiz may very well be the two a RT. I have questions of both Newton and Williams being fully game ready by the beginning of the season. I feel that as far as Winston, his idea of a "home town discount" would run something like 1%....he thinks way too much of himself.

My concern is Williams moreso than Newton. Newton played last year and has some experience. Williams got hurt the first day or two of OTAs. He is WAY behind Quiz and Harris. Considering he is that far behind, I would not be surprised if he is IRed in order to give Quiz and Harris some more snaps. I think we will know in thee first couple of weeks of camp. If they bring in a Winston type at that point it suggests Newton is further behind than indicated. If they don't, perhaps they think Harris/Quiz can hold down the fort until Newton is ready to go.

Rey
06-18-2013, 04:53 PM
Both of the above statements made because Jones is on the roster.

Well thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Has nothing to do with whether the statements are sincere.

thunderkyss
06-18-2013, 05:30 PM
or maybe Cushing actually meant what he said.

Year in & year out, MJD has been among the leagues leading rushers.

CloakNNNdagger
06-18-2013, 06:23 PM
Year in & year out, MJD has been among the leagues leading rushers.

For those arguing that you don't want to spend money on someone who is going to be playing a lesser percentage of plays.

In 2009, MJD's most productive year, Jones was in on only 40% of total offensive plays. Some positions can create great impact with limited appearances.

Leach was on the field for the Ravens ~ 37% of the offensive plays and ~ the same for the Texans..........but the teams were made much better for it.

TheMatrix31
06-21-2013, 04:09 PM
John Clayton says we're in on him. Too lazy to grab the quotes from Twitter.

I GUESS they can balance Jones and Leach?

infantrycak
06-21-2013, 04:25 PM
John Clayton says we're in on him. Too lazy to grab the quotes from Twitter.

I GUESS they can balance Jones and Leach?

Greg Jones only has $240k guaranteed money so it is pretty much guat in the grand scheme.

TexansSeminole
06-21-2013, 04:42 PM
I wouldn't mind having Greg Jones for special teams and as an emergency running back, assuming we pick up Leach. It can't hurt to have a back-up fullback like Jones who is versatile and also cheap.

rolyat93
06-21-2013, 11:57 PM
I wouldn't mind having Greg Jones for special teams and as an emergency running back, assuming we pick up Leach. It can't hurt to have a back-up fullback like Jones who is versatile and also cheap.

Who's our 3rd RB?

Brisco_County
06-22-2013, 02:07 PM
John Clayton says we're in on him. Too lazy to grab the quotes from Twitter.

I GUESS they can balance Jones and Leach?

Laziness has its rewards.

John Clayton ‏@ClaytonESPN 21h

It's interesting that former Ravens FB Vonta Leach is talking with his old team, the Texans. He might go to Miami, but Texans are interested

John Clayton ‏@ClaytonESPN 21h

Two teams other than the Texans and Dolphins are talking to Vonta Leach. He'll pick a team early next week.

CloakNNNdagger
06-22-2013, 06:21 PM
With fullback Henry Hynoski still recovering from knee surgery, and with concerns that he won't be ready for the start of the regular season, the Giants are pondering a last-ditch effort to sign free agent fullback Vonta Leach, the Daily News has learned.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/fb-needy-giants-reach-leach-article-1.1379984#ixzz2WzCiqoAB (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/fb-needy-giants-reach-leach-article-1.1379984#ixzz2WzCiqoAB)

badboy
06-22-2013, 10:24 PM
I don't see Texans in a bidding war. He went for the money last time and I think he will again.

AngryNateFTW
06-22-2013, 11:26 PM
I don't see Texans in a bidding war. He went for the money last time and I think he will again.

Every player is different. Shane Lechler would have come to Houston years back but didn't because of his HUGE contract by the Raiders.

Now that money is no longer a necessity he's come here for cheap.

It COULD happen with Leach. He loves it here and he thinks of Houston as his real home.

thunderkyss
06-22-2013, 11:48 PM
Every player is different. Shane Lechler would have come to Houston years back but didn't because of his HUGE contract by the Raiders.

Now that money is no longer a necessity he's come here for cheap.


That & there probably isn't a big market for punters right now.

If New York is entering the reach for Leach, that could spark a bidding war.

If we really want Leach, we need to dump Clutts to dilute the market.

TEXANS84
06-23-2013, 11:32 AM
Look what Vonta just tweeted:

@vleach44: Who's next? 281.......

TEXANRED
06-23-2013, 11:46 AM
Look what Vonta just tweeted:

Oh hell yeah! Leach+Jones+Foster+Tate=Superbowl Champions!

TEXANS84
06-23-2013, 11:48 AM
Oh hell yeah! Leach+Jones+Foster+Tate=Superbowl Champions!

Boo!!!!!

@vleach44: Gm tweeps have a blessed day I see someone hacked my account this morning

CloakNNNdagger
06-23-2013, 12:19 PM
Look what Vonta just tweeted:


From THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2013/06/giants-may-still-make-a-run-at-vonta-leach)

With no other fullbacks on the roster, tight end Bear Pascoe filled in at that position during mini-camp, but the Giants would prefer to have a full-time fullback fill that position. The 6-foot-, 260-pound Leach – whom the Giants pursued back in 2007 when they signed him to a restricted free agent offer sheet that the Houston Texans eventually matched -- would be a huge upgrade if the Giants can figure out how to fit him under the salary cap. That won’t be easy, though, because he was cut by the Ravens after they couldn’t reach an agreement on a restructured contract, and a source said he has no intentions of signing anywhere for one year and a minimum salary.

That puts the Giants in a bind because they have only $3.3 million of room under the salary cap according to NFLPA records and the Dolphins, the only team Leach has visited, has $17.6 million of room. The Houston Texans are also interested in Leach, according to a source, but they have even less cap room than the Giants ($2.8 million).

To lure Leach, the Giants would have to get creative to keep the first-year cap number low, and would likely need to offer a multi-year deal. Leach visited the Dolphins on June 12 and they still remain the favorites to sign him. A source said eight teams expressed some interest in signing Leach, but he has no immediate plans to make any more free-agent visits.

ChampionTexan
06-23-2013, 01:46 PM
From THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2013/06/giants-may-still-make-a-run-at-vonta-leach)

It should surprise nobody that the Giants have a serious interest in Vonta. In addition to their compelling need, this was the team who's offer the Texans matched way back when Vonta was a restricted FA. Granted, that's been six years ago, but Jerry Reese and Tom Coughlin are both around now, just as they were in 2007.

Still, I'm not liking the odds of him being either a Texan or a Giant in 2013. If I'm wrong, it will be far from the first (or last) time, but I'm thinking unless one of the two decide they want to free up some additional cap room for Vonta, he'll be a Dolphin by the end of the week. That just doesn't strike me as the Giants way of doing business, and while I love Vonta, I don't love him enough to want the Texans to push current cap dollars to future years in order to resign him.

Brisco_County
06-23-2013, 01:58 PM
Due to the Dolphins cap space, Leach is allowing a bidding war that the Texans don't need to engage in. He won't be coming to Houston.

HOU-TEX
06-24-2013, 09:49 AM
IIRC, the Giants wanted him back in 06. I think they even signed him to an offer sheet before he re-signed with the Texans. It'd be nice if he shunned them again.

ChampionTexan
06-24-2013, 10:10 AM
IIRC, the Giants wanted him back in 06. I think they even signed him to an offer sheet before he re-signed with the Texans. It'd be nice if he shunned them again.

Look two posts above yours.

HOU-TEX
06-24-2013, 10:18 AM
Look two posts above yours.

Ha, sorry CT. Just got back from vacay and might be a little web-headed this morning.

ChampionTexan
06-24-2013, 10:23 AM
Ha, sorry CT. Just got back from vacay and might be a little web-headed this morning.

No worries - I'm just kind of hoping Leach makes his decision soon, so we can move on from the thought he might be coming back.

CloakNNNdagger
06-24-2013, 11:06 AM
Some believe that the Ravens are waiting in the wings for if Leach finds that things out there in FA are not all that great.

Hello again, Vonta?

The Ravens are still quietly monitoring the situation with former fullback Vonta Leach. The Miami Dolphins appear to be the frontrunner for Leach, with the Houston Texans and Tennessee Titans also in contention.

But if the Dolphins were offering such an attractive package, Leach would have signed by now. The Ravens reportedly offered Leach a contact worth $2 million and loaded with incentives, but those close to Leach don't believe those incentives were realistic for him to reach.
Leach was expected to make $3 million this season before the Ravens recently cut him.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-column-0622-20130621,0,7205386.column?page=2&track=rss#ixzz2X9864r47

76Texan
06-24-2013, 11:44 AM
Some believe that the Ravens are waiting in the wings for if Leach finds that things out there in FA are not all that great.




http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-column-0622-20130621,0,7205386.column?page=2&track=rss#ixzz2X9864r47

So a $2M contract with achievable incentives can get this done?

srrono
06-24-2013, 04:43 PM
I would perfer HOU to sign a vet LB or NT but if a signing had to be a ex Texan RT Winston would be my #1 target.

michaelm
06-26-2013, 05:49 PM
Sign Leach and trade Jones to the Giants?


..."here's to you, Mr. preposterous trade proposer..."

darnbni99a
06-26-2013, 06:29 PM
this should be interesting!!

TEXANRED
06-26-2013, 07:28 PM
this should be interesting!!

What should?

Nawzer
06-26-2013, 07:43 PM
I would perfer HOU to sign a vet LB or NT but if a signing had to be a ex Texan RT Winston would be my #1 target.

This.

ChampionTexan
06-26-2013, 07:46 PM
this should be interesting!!

What should?

This.

:thinking:

DocBar
06-26-2013, 07:59 PM
I would perfer HOU to sign a vet LB or NT but if a signing had to be a ex Texan RT Winston would be my #1 target.As much as I've griped about Winston, I'd much rather see the Texans sign him than Leach. It would be money much better spent, imho. I can't think of an ILB that piques my interest as much.

Texan_Bill
06-26-2013, 08:53 PM
As much as I've griped about Winston, I'd much rather see the Texans sign him than Leach. It would be money much better spent, imho. I can't think of an ILB that piques my interest as much.

I don't understand.

Just because the Texans signed Greg Jones, why couldn't they sign Leach and Winston???

If there is guaranteed money for Jones I would kinda get it, with regards to signing Leach. I didn't realize there was guaranteed money for him. If not, sign all three with modest contracts and cut 1, 2 or all three if necessary.

If there is no "guaranteed" money, the Texans aren't required to pay them a dime as it relates to the salary cap...

Winston and Leach both understand that they made way more than the market value for their worth (and I'm sure they both expected to come back to Earth) with modest contracts.

DocBar
06-26-2013, 09:35 PM
I don't understand.

Just because the Texans signed Greg Jones, why couldn't they sign Leach and Winston???

If there is guaranteed money for Jones I would kinda get it, with regards to signing Leach. I didn't realize there was guaranteed money for him. If not, sign all three with modest contracts and cut 1, 2 or all three if necessary.

If there is no "guaranteed" money, the Texans aren't required to pay them a dime as it relates to the salary cap...

Winston and Leach both understand that they made way more than the market value for their worth (and I'm sure they both expected to come back to Earth) with modest contracts.The Texans are less than $3 mil under the cap. There are still rookies left to sign. The Texans are in cap hell. Screw Leach and sign a more productive player, both in % of plays and overall ability to help the team right now.

Leach is a marginal upgrade over Clutts, not a clear cut better player. Winston is better than anyone that's healthy right now.

Personally I'd rather sign neither, especially Leach. If we have to burn cap space, RT is a much more pressing need than FB. FB might play 40% of the offensive snaps. Winston could come in and play 100% of the snaps and be a temporary upgrade that allows a newer player to adjust to the NFL.

Winston might actually be the easier player to sign to a short term, incentive-laden contract, also. His familiarity with the Texans' system also trumps Leach, imo.

Lastly, Leach still has a SB ring and Winston is coming off of a year with the Chiefs. where he got cut from a sad-sack, relatively unproductive, OL. Leverage.

Texan_Bill
06-26-2013, 09:55 PM
The Texans are less than $3 mil under the cap. There are still rookies left to sign. The Texans are in cap hell. Screw Leach and sign a more productive player, both in % of plays and overall ability to help the team right now.

Leach is a marginal upgrade over Clutts, not a clear cut better player. Winston is better than anyone that's healthy right now.

Personally I'd rather sign neither, especially Leach. If we have to burn cap space, RT is a much more pressing need than FB. FB might play 40% of the offensive snaps. Winston could come in and play 100% of the snaps and be a temporary upgrade that allows a newer player to adjust to the NFL.

Winston might actually be the easier player to sign to a short term, incentive-laden contract, also. His familiarity with the Texans' system also trumps Leach, imo.

Lastly, Leach still has a SB ring and Winston is coming off of a year with the Chiefs. where he got cut from a sad-sack, relatively unproductive, OL. Leverage.

You're missing my point. OR Maybe I have it wrong.

As long as a contract doesn't have guaranteed money, you can sign anyone you want, irrespective of the cap. Then you can cut or make any roster moves you need to make "rookies" signed including those with no guaranteed money.

Apparently I have that all wrong and will defer to you.

DocBar
06-26-2013, 10:03 PM
You're missing my point. OR Maybe I have it wrong.

As long as a contract doesn't have guaranteed money, you can sign anyone you want, irrespective of the cap. Then you can cut or make any roster moves you need to make "rookies" signed including those with no guaranteed money.

Apparently I have that all wrong and will defer to you.As far as I know, signing a player affects the cap. The way it's structured affects how much it affects the cap and when, including guaranteed money(which is due if you cut the player and affects the cap the most). I do not, in any way, shape or form, pretend to even remotely understand the salary cap.

I do not think that either Leach or Winston would sign anything, at all, that had no guarantees in it. It's mho that Winston would be the wiser signing of the two, regardless of how much I've griped about Winston's play at RT.

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2013, 12:00 AM
The Texans are in cap hell.

This is NOT cap hell.

If we need space to sign someone, we can make more room. Extending Antonio Smith is an example. We can't afford to sign someone to a BIG contract, but we've got enough room to play.

And just signing someone doesn't count against the cap in the preseason. Only the top 50* contracts count. Signing one player may push another player out of the top 50 and so you just add the DIFFERENCE in their contracts to our cap number, you don't add that person's whole salary. And if they're not in the top 50, you don't count them at all.

* I believe it's 50. If it's not 50, it's close to 50.

There are 4 or 5 teams with less cap money than we have at this point.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2013, 09:32 AM
This is NOT cap hell.

If we need space to sign someone, we can make more room. Extending Antonio Smith is an example. We can't afford to sign someone to a BIG contract, but we've got enough room to play.

And just signing someone doesn't count against the cap in the preseason. Only the top 50* contracts count. Signing one player may push another player out of the top 50 and so you just add the DIFFERENCE in their contracts to our cap number, you don't add that person's whole salary. And if they're not in the top 50, you don't count them at all.

* I believe it's 50. If it's not 50, it's close to 50.

There are 4 or 5 teams with less cap money than we have at this point.


Good post! Only one small revision..........it's The Top 51 Rule.

Rey
06-27-2013, 09:49 AM
I had a dream that we signed Leach and he got hurt....

No real meaning to it I guess, but I figured this was a good place to share...

deucetx
06-27-2013, 02:35 PM
I had a dream that we signed Leach and he got hurt....

No real meaning to it I guess, but I figured this was a good place to share...

You, my friend, are ready for some football lol. Maybe the fact this thread is nine pages about a FB we really don't need has crept into your subconscience, heh.

badboy
06-28-2013, 10:46 PM
The Texans are less than $3 mil under the cap. There are still rookies left to sign. The Texans are in cap hell. Screw Leach and sign a more productive player, both in % of plays and overall ability to help the team right now.

Leach is a marginal upgrade over Clutts, not a clear cut better player. Winston is better than anyone that's healthy right now.

Personally I'd rather sign neither, especially Leach. If we have to burn cap space, RT is a much more pressing need than FB. FB might play 40% of the offensive snaps. Winston could come in and play 100% of the snaps and be a temporary upgrade that allows a newer player to adjust to the NFL.

Winston might actually be the easier player to sign to a short term, incentive-laden contract, also. His familiarity with the Texans' system also trumps Leach, imo.

Lastly, Leach still has a SB ring and Winston is coming off of a year with the Chiefs. where he got cut from a sad-sack, relatively unproductive, OL. Leverage.Toward first bolded comment, I think it is would Winston be better than anyone on roster in September not now. Last year's starter is supposedly going to be ready by game one. Williams also healthy could be equal to Winston quickly, he is that good. I will go on a limb & say Quessenbury could be better than Winston by end of season so I am in no hurry to sign anyone. Barring injuries later, no team appears to be in a panic to sign him.

Bolded comment #2 if Winston was willing to sign a short term, incentive laden contract, why has he not said so?

OBTW, if Eric is familiar with system, would not Leach be also? Forgot to bold that one.

the wonger need food
06-29-2013, 12:45 AM
The Texans are less than $3 mil under the cap. There are still rookies left to sign. The Texans are in cap hell. Screw Leach and sign a more productive player, both in % of plays and overall ability to help the team right now.

Leach is a marginal upgrade over Clutts, not a clear cut better player. Winston is better than anyone that's healthy right now.

Personally I'd rather sign neither, especially Leach. If we have to burn cap space, RT is a much more pressing need than FB. FB might play 40% of the offensive snaps. Winston could come in and play 100% of the snaps and be a temporary upgrade that allows a newer player to adjust to the NFL.

Winston might actually be the easier player to sign to a short term, incentive-laden contract, also. His familiarity with the Texans' system also trumps Leach, imo.

Lastly, Leach still has a SB ring and Winston is coming off of a year with the Chiefs. where he got cut from a sad-sack, relatively unproductive, OL. Leverage.

The Texans are nowhere near "cap hell". That is a term generally used for teams that owe a lot of dead money on players no longer on the roster. Are they in great shape, obviously not, but "cap hell" is an exaggeration.

Leach is an All-Pro. Clutts is a journeyman. They are not close in terms of talent.

If Winston had anything left someone would have already signed him. His pass blocking abilities were declining drastically while he was still in Houston and there's a good reason why he was cut from one of the NFL's worst teams.

Neither one of these guys will be back. Both are too proud to take a vet min. contract which is about all the Texans are looking for at this point, if anything. Barring a major injury the opening day players are already on the roster.

CloakNNNdagger
06-29-2013, 08:41 AM
Just had to post this, just for his quote at the end if nothing more.

"Rowland is my home, Rowland always will be my home, it's always a really special place in my heart," said Leach.

And he couldn't be more excited to hold his first fundraiser in North Carolina in the county where he grew up. More than 300 people turned out in Lumberton Friday evening for a casino night at the Southeastern North Carolina Agricultural Center. All proceeds from the event went to the Vonta Leach Foundation, which was started by Leach in 2006. The foundation provides scholarships for local students and other youth activities.

Leach also invited more than 20 other pro football players to mingle with guests, so they could see how they're all just everyday guys. Joe Flacco, Michael Oher, and Ray Rice were just a few among the star-studded guest list.

"Just for people to interact with the guys, without helmets on, just to see what kind of person that they are, seeing that football players are just normal everyday guys, just to mingle with them and just have a conversation," he said.

And because he considers himself an everyday guy, Leach makes sure he helps others get to the top as well.

"If I don't help somebody else get to the next level, then it didn't do me any good just to be where I am today," said Leach. "You have to lift somebody as you climb; as I go higher up, I have to reach back and lift somebody up, for the cycle to continue."link (http://www.wbtw.com/story/22720234/vonta-leach-holds-fundraiser-that-benefits-local-kids)

This is the type of player that is what we would like to believe "Texans prototype."

CloakNNNdagger
07-12-2013, 05:38 PM
Leach still isn't signed holding out for a multi-year contract.

Now today, the Cowboys have released Vickers. It's important to know that Vickers is coming off of back surgery this offseason.

drs23
07-13-2013, 04:27 PM
Leach still isn't signed holding out for a multi-year contract.

Now today, the Cowboys have released Vickers. It's important to know that Vickers is coming off of back surgery this offseason.

So Leach wears a star now. Don't think the K'boys can afford him, can they?

CloakNNNdagger
07-13-2013, 04:43 PM
So Leach wears a star now. Don't think the K'boys can afford him, can they?

Even though the Girls don't have a FB on the roster, I think they've spent their wad on promising TEs to go with Witten...........a 2nd rounder, a 2nd year vet FA and another vet FA (don't remember their names). They're probably going to go the route of the failed Casey experiment.

beerlover
07-13-2013, 09:26 PM
Even though the Girls don't have a FB on the roster, I think they've spent their wad on promising TEs to go with Witten...........a 2nd rounder, a 2nd year vet FA and another vet FA (don't remember their names). They're probably going to go the route of the failed Casey experiment.

Gavin Escobar, San Diego State. He was considered the 3rd/4th best TE talent in the 13 class. In the end he will be Witten's replacement, nearly 6'6" 257 with frame to tack on another 10 easy can run like the wind, shift on the line (which Cowboys embrace) with huge catching radius. To go with Terrance Williams both I had rated higher than Frederick but what difference does that make now or what order they got them all in first three rounds. Plus they bolstered secondary with an excellent safety prospect in Wilcox then a fav of mine @ CB BW Webb. Adding Joseph was a steal. Overall too much focus on their #1 overall selection.

Vonta would help OL protection for Romo, good pick up if true.

paycheck71
07-13-2013, 09:33 PM
So Leach wears a star now. Don't think the K'boys can afford him, can they?

They're about $10MM under the cap this year, so they could afford him for one year if they wanted to, but they're already about $20MM over the projected cap next year. Plus, as has already been mentioned, they want to use their TE's more and probably don't need an expensive FB like Leach.

htowntexans1985
07-26-2013, 08:06 AM
Welp, looks like Leach is going to be back in his ratnest this season

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/26/report-vonta-leach-expected-to-re-sign-with-ravens/

mattieuk
07-26-2013, 11:26 AM
ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/72483/wake-up-leach-re-signing-with-ravens)

The Ravens released Leach last month when the sides couldn't come to terms on reducing his $3 million salary this year. But the Ravens reportedly have a standing offer of $2 million plus incentives.

I guess the free market wasn't as kindly paying as Vonta thought it would be.

Shame would have loved to see him a Texan again.

drs23
07-26-2013, 11:49 AM
ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/72483/wake-up-leach-re-signing-with-ravens)



I guess the free market wasn't as kindly paying as Vonta thought it would be.

Shame would have loved to see him a Texan again.

I think we'll be fine at FB. We still have a couple of bruisers.

Heath Shuler
07-29-2013, 05:08 PM
Jeff Zrebiec ‏@jeffzrebiecsun 9m

Not sure a deal is done but fullback Vonta Leach has been at Ravens facility today taking physical and working out.

...

Playoffs
07-29-2013, 05:31 PM
Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
John Harbaugh Vonta Leach 'signing as we speak'