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Playoffs
06-07-2013, 06:55 PM
LZ -- Ranking the Top 40 Texans for 2013 (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/06/ranking-the-top-40-texans-for-2013/)

I’ve compiled a list of the top 40 Houston Texans based on the current roster, but I need to spell out how I decided to rank the players. My rankings aren’t based on overall value to the team or the ratings would start with “1. Matt Schaub, 2. Andre Johnson.”

Instead, I decided to try to rank the Texans as “football players.” I’m trying to decide how good a football player each player is relative to each other and how I come to my conclusions is certainly bound to be different from how you come to your conclusions. What you did in the past just factors in slightly as I’m looking to stack players based on where I think they are right now as players.

Keep in mind that some of my rankings will have players who have “never done anything” ahead of players who have experience under their belt. Oh well. In some cases I’m obviously projecting based on how I think they would play if given the opportunity that others have had. Here is my final list of the Texans Top 40. ...

Texans Top 40

* The numbers in parenthesis is the rankings of the players last year. FA means they were free agents this year while players who were added during the season will be designated as unranked.

1. J.J. Watt, DT/DE (5) - Last year I had Watt at #5 because I wanted to see him perform at a higher level for a little bit longer before I moved him to top of this list. Well played, Mr. Watt. Well played. After Watt put together what may go down as the most dominant season of any defensive lineman in history, it is safe to say that the top spot on the team is his. He has an absolutely elite combination of power, quickness, size and hand usage and for as good as he is on the field, he might be just as good off the field. It is unlikely that he will match last year’s ridiculous sack output (20.5), but there is no reason to believe that he won’t be in double digits once again.

2. Duane Brown, LT (3) - Make no mistake about it – Duane Brown was even better in 2011 than he was in 2012. I’m not saying that Brown wasn’t good in 2012 because he was, but I think he started to get a little too heavy. How did Brown respond to his 2012 season? He came into OTAs as light as I’ve seen him as a Texan. Brown has shed the excess weight and I think we’ll see a focused, dominant season from one of the best in the business.

3. Arian Foster, RB (1) - It is easy to focus on Foster’s declining yards per carry and his increasing workload, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that Foster gets the cheese. His 47 touchdowns over the last three years is a great example of the nose that Foster has for the endzone and his ability to be a workhorse for the Texans shouldn’t be held against him, but rather lauded. I don’t know how much longer Foster can continue to handle the high number of touches that he has been saddled with over the last three years, but I do know that he shows up in the big games and we will see his YPC go back up if the Texans can get their run blocking sorted out this year.
...http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/06/ranking-the-top-40-texans-for-2013/

False Start
06-07-2013, 07:54 PM
Good read, thanks a lot! :jam: :cool:

thunderkyss
06-07-2013, 08:35 PM
LZ -- Ranking the Top 40 Texans for 2013 (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/06/ranking-the-top-40-texans-for-2013/)
Instead, I decided to try to rank the Texans as “football players.” I’m trying to decide how good a football player each player is relative to each other and how I come to my conclusions is certainly bound to be different from how you come to your conclusions.
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/06/ranking-the-top-40-texans-for-2013/


And so we begin.

First, this makes even less sense than giving draft grades, but I've got nothing better to do.

I question his logic on some of these. Brandon Brooks shot up his board, from 36 to 19, but Newton dropped from 28 to 33.... Whut?? I think Newton was a much better RT than Brooks was RG & both players improved throughout the season, at least until Newton's injury.

I don't have a problem with him ranking Brooks ahead of Newton, if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. But for Brooks to shoot up so far & Newton to drop so far... just doesn't make sense.

Then he's got Braman at 29. Brandon Harris isn't even in the top 40... yeah, I'm not seeing it. I like Braman, but if I were going to classify only one of those two as a football player.... it'd be Harris.

Then he feels the Texans have little confidence in Braman & that lack of confidence prompted the drafting of two players to play ahead of him... but he puts Brooks Reed at 18, Mercilus at 21..... hello??? If they're drafting players to play OLB, neither of these guys should be close to the top 20.

jmo

Now, I do agree that JjWatt, Duane Brown, Andre Johnson, & Arian Foster are our best 4 players. But Cushing rounds out the top 5 & it's not even close.

Jjo, had a great 2011. Had a solid career before that, but only solid. I'd love to see another pro bowl season from the man before I put him in our top 5.

Lastly, Ben Jones. Z says this:
30. Ben Jones, G/C (Unranked) - Jones showed good footwork and solid technique but he lacked the power needed to play with consistency at guard. I think Jones has a great shot at becoming the starting center by 2015, but until then, he’ll likely provide depth at both guard and center while potentially getting a shot to start at LG by 2014.

As far as making the calls & snapping the ball, of course that was all Chris Myers. But once the ball was snapped Chris Myers & Mike Briesel performed extremely similar roles depending on where the play was going & how the DT was lined up. On most other teams, if I'm the Mike I know I've got to look out for Chris Myers on run plays to my side. If the DT has him, I'm home free. But with Briesel... or Ben Jones I can't just read that DT, I've got to look for that RG.

Brandon Brooks is a fine player, but he doesn't have the speed or agility that BenJones or Briesel does. If he's pushing the DT back onto Myers, as the Mike I'll probably get past him before he's free. Yes, Brooks is the more powerful player, but he plays more like the guy WadeSmith was in 2010.

Now I don't know if Kubiak wants a 2010 WadeSmith on both sides of Myers. If that's what he wants he'll probably get that in 2013, but we'll need to replace Wade Smith soon. But I really liked the versatility we had starting Briesel (who Ben Jones is a younger better version) & we'd be much closer to the 2010 league leading offensive line with Ben Jones (a younger better Briesel) at RG and Brandon Brooks (a younger better Wade Smith) playing at LG.

Other than that.... good article.

Thorn
06-07-2013, 10:31 PM
Damn. I can not wait until the first game. I am so tired of projections and lists and whatever. Not that I discount lists where Texan players are ranked high, it's just I'm tired of words already.

HJam72
06-08-2013, 11:42 AM
Damn. I can not wait until the first game. I am so tired of projections and lists and whatever. Not that I discount lists where Texan players are ranked high, it's just I'm tired of words already.

OK, now it's time to rank the top 50,000 Texans fans. :stirpot:

The Pencil Neck
06-08-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't have a problem with him ranking Brooks ahead of Newton, if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. But for Brooks to shoot up so far & Newton to drop so far... just doesn't make sense.

This isn't about how they performed last year, this is how they're expected to perform THIS year... and I believe it's based on what Lance has seen and heard that OTAs. So he's looking at something most of us haven't had access to.

Judging from Steph's reports, Brooks has been looking like one of (if not THE) the most improved player so far. And what you saw last year, where the Mike didn't have to worry about him getting to the second level, that might be a thing of the past. It certainly sounds like it from early reports.

And with Newton on the sideline and from some reports having weight issues, Newton may have taken a big step back because of that.

BUT... like any grade that projects, it's all just an opinion.

IDEXAN
06-08-2013, 01:58 PM
The one that stumps me is safety Manning being ranked #7 on that list ?

thunderkyss
06-08-2013, 02:20 PM
The one that stumps me is safety Manning being ranked #7 on that list ?

I thought that about a lot of the rankings, but after myIf they're drafting players to play OLB, neither of these guys should be close to the top 20. comment..... I started thinking it might be hard to find 20 players more worthy than Brooks Reed & Whitney Mercilus.

So.... let's make our own list. I'll start with the top 5.


Jj Watt
Andre Johnson
Duane Brown
Arian Foster
Brian Cushing


What do y'all think?

EllisUnit
06-08-2013, 05:58 PM
OK, now it's time to rank the top 50,000 Texans fans. :stirpot:

yeah i dont feel like i need to be personally spot lighted. So We can skip #1 and do the top #2-50,000 texans fans. Just saying guys :smiliedance:

Wolf6151
06-08-2013, 07:28 PM
Damn. I can not wait until the first game. I am so tired of projections and lists and whatever. Not that I discount lists where Texan players are ranked high, it's just I'm tired of words already.

I agree, these lists are silly.

Vance87
06-08-2013, 07:40 PM
Damn. I can not wait until the first game. I am so tired of projections and lists and whatever. Not that I discount lists where Texan players are ranked high, it's just I'm tired of words already.

Sucks that we have to wait until literally the last game of the 1st week. From the first game thursday to our game monday night at 9pm central time will feel like an eternity.

thunderkyss
06-08-2013, 07:46 PM
Sucks that we have to wait until literally the last game of the 1st week. From the first game thursday to our game monday night at 9pm central time will feel like an eternity.

I hate it... but I get to watch more football that way.

If the Texans played Thursday night, I would be too preoccupied "studying" the game to watch any other.

If the Texans played Sunday morning, I'd watch the Thursday game, then the Texans.... then I'm "studying" the Texans game. If they play Sunday afternoon or night, something similar.

Being Monday night, I can watch all the games then Texans last & then pick it apart till next Sunday.

badboy
06-10-2013, 04:08 PM
Chris Myers dead money after '13 is $4m but only two if cut after '14. Chris Jones should be ready. I agree with LZ.

Mitchell. I didn't see it last season but hope Lance is right and Mitchell will become another Chris Myers in middle of the line, undersized but solid.

Crick imo should replace Smith in '14. Not heartbroken if he extends but big savings if not.

Brooks is OG of future just which side. We also have time to see if Q will work out before having to look for OG in 2014. Then there is Cody White.

IDEXAN
06-10-2013, 05:46 PM
Ben Jones started lots of games last year @ RG and was voted the Texans top rookie, but have heard nothing about him this year so far ?

thunderkyss
06-10-2013, 09:47 PM
Ben Jones started lots of games last year @ RG and was voted the Texans top rookie, but have heard nothing about him this year so far ?

I think he's finishing up his college degree. (http://dogbytesonline.com/loran-smith-texans-made-wise-investment-in-ben-jones-71621/) Says he took 12 hours at Georgia for the spring semester.

Should be around for mini-camp I would think.

badboy
06-11-2013, 05:30 PM
Ben Jones started lots of games last year @ RG and was voted the Texans top rookie, but have heard nothing about him this year so far ?

Someone said he was getting reps at RG in OTAs

theNumber80
06-16-2013, 05:06 PM
Arian Foster and Duane Brown ranked higher than Andre Johnson is a joke. ESPECIALLY Foster. Duane Brown is IMO the best LT in the game so I could somewhat accept that but no way in hell is Foster better than Andre. Not even a top 5 RB in my opinion.

ObsiWan
06-16-2013, 09:56 PM
Arian Foster and Duane Brown ranked higher than Andre Johnson is a joke. ESPECIALLY Foster. Duane Brown is IMO the best LT in the game so I could somewhat accept that but no way in hell is Foster better than Andre. Not even a top 5 RB in my opinion.
Despite your moniker - which kinda says you're not unbiased - you might want to rethink that.

Foster had 17 TDs last year (led the league in rushing TDs by the way), A.J. had 4. Just from a scoring impact, Foster is ahead of A.J.

And for the record, I think they both should be in the top five.

theNumber80
06-16-2013, 10:34 PM
Despite your moniker - which kinda says you're not unbiased - you might want to rethink that.

Foster had 17 TDs last year (led the league in rushing TDs by the way), A.J. had 4. Just from a scoring impact, Foster is ahead of A.J.

And for the record, I think they both should be in the top five.

You mean those 17 TDs inside the 5 yard line? REAL impressive. Did you watch Foster? He can't break a tackle to save his life, doesn't fight for extra yardage, and lacks explosiveness which is why his longest run was 52 yards...He didn't do much in the receiving game either. He falls down if someone lays a finger on him, don't even compare him to Andre Johnson. Andre provided a much bigger impact on offense than Foster did. Touchdowns are one of the most skewed stats by the way so you bringing it up is useless. We run a ridiculous amount at the goal line which is why Foster's TDs are so inflated and Andre's TD numbers are so low. Texans' fans should know this by now...

Andre Johnson >>>> Arian Foster

It's not even a debate.

DocBar
06-16-2013, 10:42 PM
You mean those 17 TDs inside the 5 yard line? REAL impressive. Did you watch Foster? He can't break a tackle to save his life, doesn't fight for extra yardage, and lacks explosiveness which is why his longest run was 52 yards...He didn't do much in the receiving game either. He falls down if someone lays a finger on him, don't even compare him to Andre Johnson. Andre provided a much bigger impact on offense than Foster did. Touchdowns are one of the most skewed stats by the way so you bringing it up is useless. We run a ridiculous amount at the goal line which is why Foster's TDs are so inflated and Andre's TD numbers are so low. Texans' fans should know this by now...

Andre Johnson >>>> Arian Foster

It's not even a debate.You, sir, are an idiot. It has less to do with the personnel on the field and more about the philosophy behind the offense. The Texans WILL run the ball, at will. They WILL make you honor that. You can harken back to an older era, where a forward pass has 3 outcomes and two of them are bad, when you look at a Kubiak offense. Kubiak believes in owning the clock and running the football. Nothing will change his mind on that. That's how it's gonna be.

thunderkyss
06-16-2013, 11:27 PM
You mean those 17 TDs inside the 5 yard line? REAL impressive.

Touchdowns are one of the most skewed stats by the way so you bringing it up is useless. We run a ridiculous amount at the goal line which is why Foster's TDs are so inflated and Andre's TD numbers are so low. Texans' fans should know this by now...



:tinfoil:

Are you serious? TDs are skewed? You either get them or you don't. You get more than your opponent & you win games. The other team will try to stop you from getting that TD whether you're on the 50 or the 5..... actually they try harder if you're on the 5.

It's ok to think Andre is a better Texans than Arian, but Arian's no chump.

ObsiWan
06-17-2013, 04:09 AM
You mean those 17 TDs inside the 5 yard line? REAL impressive. Did you watch Foster? He can't break a tackle to save his life, doesn't fight for extra yardage, and lacks explosiveness which is why his longest run was 52 yards...He didn't do much in the receiving game either. He falls down if someone lays a finger on him, don't even compare him to Andre Johnson. Andre provided a much bigger impact on offense than Foster did. Touchdowns are one of the most skewed stats by the way so you bringing it up is useless. We run a ridiculous amount at the goal line which is why Foster's TDs are so inflated and Andre's TD numbers are so low. Texans' fans should know this by now...

Andre Johnson >>>> Arian Foster

It's not even a debate.

you're right. it's not.

Look we ALL love A.J. but Foster was responsible for over one third of the TD output (17 of 46) of the whole team during the regular season and two thirds of our TD output in the playoffs (6 of our 9 TDs in four games).

You don't score, you don't win.
How the heck can TDs be over-rated?
:smiliepalm:

theNumber80
06-17-2013, 12:19 PM
you're right. it's not.

Look we ALL love A.J. but Foster was responsible for over one third of the TD output (17 of 46) of the whole team during the regular season and two thirds of our TD output in the playoffs (6 of our 9 TDs in four games).

You don't score, you don't win.
How the heck can TDs be over-rated?
:smiliepalm:

Cause TDs usually rely on playcalling? How on earth is Andre suppose to rack up more TDs when we basically run every time we're in the red zone? Arian had 17 TDs and yet anybody who actually watched football knows he wasn't even close to being a top 5 RB. Did you guys even watch him? I think he broke 5 tackles...TOTAL for the season. Andre had 1600 receiving yards as the ONLY threat in the passing game and made clutch catches time and time again throughout the season. Arian Foster relies on his offensive line a lot more than other running backs do and that's pretty clear. Is he a scrub? No. Is he a top 5 RB? Nope.

And yes I know scoring points is the main objective but to bring it up as an argument against Andre for Foster is weak considering the way Kubiak calls the plays....Arian's YPC was 4.1 by the way...that's ridiculously weak for an "elite" running back.

beerlover
06-17-2013, 12:27 PM
dead zone off season & LZ comes through with his valued insight after OTA's. Have no problems with it & hope Brooks is as good as advertised. RT remains the big question mark but there is always going to be something we can nitpick. At this point it would be wise to keep resting both Brennan & Derek until ready thus Harris will be opening day starter. Should provide adequate stop gap until Newton or Williams win battle as health allows.

After Watt the big three, Andre, Foster & Brown are interchangeable all deserving. Next I would say Cushing, Joseph & Schaub then Manning, Jackson Reed. Would not put punter that high on list, know Hopkins is only a rookie but expect big things from him immediately giving Owen Daniels a run for his money.

After which there is a pretty decisive drop off. LB play/rotation next biggest concern after RT. Brooks could really surprise inside, meaning his ceiling could be higher with move inside than Lance thinks. Mercilus will hold the WOLB position while Sam & Trevardo rotate & compete with each other to improve weekly.

Good article by LZ, agree w/thunderkyss however & choose my unsung Texan not listed in his top 40 as David Quessenberry who could replace Wade Smith (22) by seasons end, now that would be impressive.

BL :wesmantexanfan:

thunderkyss
06-17-2013, 12:29 PM
And yes I know scoring points is the main objective but to bring it up as an argument against Andre for Foster is weak considering the way Kubiak calls the plays....Arian's YPC was 4.1 by the way...that's ridiculously weak for an "elite" running back.

In a bad year, Arian had 17 TDs, 1400 yards, a 4.1 ypc avg...... This is his "bad" year.

And as far as throwing it to Andre in the endzone. We've been there, done that, it don't work. Whether it's a Schaub issue or an Andre issue, or a Defense on a short field issue, doesn't matter. We don't do it, because it don't work.

Give the ball to Arian..... that works.

EllisUnit
06-17-2013, 05:32 PM
In a bad year, Arian had 17 TDs, 1400 yards, a 4.1 ypc avg...... This is his "bad" year.

And as far as throwing it to Andre in the endzone. We've been there, done that, it don't work. Whether it's a Schaub issue or an Andre issue, or a Defense on a short field issue, doesn't matter. We don't do it, because it don't work.

Give the ball to Arian..... that works.

HARD TO REALLY SAY IF IT WORKS OR NOT WHEN WE ONLY TRY IT A FEW TIMES A SEASON. Aj IS A BIG GUY, HOW OFTEN DO U SEE THEM JUST THROW IT UP FOR HIM TO GO GET IT ? HE WOULD WIN THOSE BATTLES 8 OUT OF 10 TIMES.

ObsiWan
06-17-2013, 07:12 PM
HARD TO REALLY SAY IF IT WORKS OR NOT WHEN WE ONLY TRY IT A FEW TIMES A SEASON. Aj IS A BIG GUY, HOW OFTEN DO U SEE THEM JUST THROW IT UP FOR HIM TO GO GET IT ? HE WOULD WIN THOSE BATTLES 8 OUT OF 10 TIMES.

While I've seen him go up and get the ball on some occasions an 80% success rate is a pretty bold prediction. No sane offensive coordinator/head coach would turn away from that sort of success rate.

And why are you shouting?

EllisUnit
06-17-2013, 07:51 PM
While I've seen him go up and get the ball on some occasions an 80% success rate is a pretty bold prediction. No sane offensive coordinator/head coach would turn away from that sort of success rate.

And why are you shouting?

haha damn caps. dude we have all seen the hard headed kubiak and his stubborness. i wonder what ajs td redzone rate was with carr compared to schaub. seems like we went to him more in the redzone then than post capers era

DocBar
06-17-2013, 09:07 PM
In a bad year, Arian had 17 TDs, 1400 yards, a 4.1 ypc avg...... This is his "bad" year.

And as far as throwing it to Andre in the endzone. We've been there, done that, it don't work. Whether it's a Schaub issue or an Andre issue, or a Defense on a short field issue, doesn't matter. We don't do it, because it don't work.

Give the ball to Arian..... that works.MSR!!! I'm more interested in points and wins than personal stats. I'd venture to say that AJ feels the same way.

Texan_Bill
06-17-2013, 09:57 PM
HARD TO REALLY SAY IF IT WORKS OR NOT WHEN WE ONLY TRY IT A FEW TIMES A SEASON. Aj IS A BIG GUY, HOW OFTEN DO U SEE THEM JUST THROW IT UP FOR HIM TO GO GET IT ? HE WOULD WIN THOSE BATTLES 8 OUT OF 10 TIMES.

8.5 to be exact! ;)

thunderkyss
06-18-2013, 08:08 PM
I didn't think this deserved its own thread, so I'm putting it here.

Top 5 Texans: Offense (http://www.football.com/en-us/top-5-players-on-the-texans-offense/)


I'll warn you. It's "slideshow" style.... kinda bleacherReportish, but it's not the BleacherReport.

Another warning...... Andre is not #1, so if you're one of those guys that get bent out of shape if Andre isn't listed as #1, you probably shouldn't look.

ObsiWan
06-18-2013, 09:44 PM
I didn't think this deserved its own thread, so I'm putting it here.

Top 5 Texans: Offense (http://www.football.com/en-us/top-5-players-on-the-texans-offense/)


I'll warn you. It's "slideshow" style.... kinda bleacherReportish, but it's not the BleacherReport.

Another warning...... Andre is not #1, so if you're one of those guys that get bent out of shape if Andre isn't listed as #1, you probably shouldn't look.
I'll go ahead and post the names; you can read the verbiage at your leisure... (or not :D )
1. Arian Foster
2. Andre Johnson
3. Matt Schaub
4. Owen Daniels
5. The Offensive Line

I did this not to start another ranking discussion but to ask how do you think the list will look after this coming season....

I guess what I'm really asking is do you think Hopkins will crack the top five? Do you think, with A.J., Hopkins, and Keyshawn Martin (and maybe Posey) the WR corps will be the driving force of the 2013 Texans' offense? Maybe they supplant O.D. in importance this year...
What say you?

thunderkyss
06-18-2013, 10:16 PM
I guess what I'm really asking is do you think Hopkins will crack the top five? Do you think, with A.J., Hopkins, and Keyshawn Martin (and maybe Posey) the WR corps will be the driving force of the 2013 Texans' offense? Maybe they supplant O.D. in importance this year...
What say you?

I tried to get some numbers on our expectations for Hopkins' I got more coach speech from a bunch of guys who can't stand coach speech.

That said, for Hopkins to get into the top 5, he'll have to change our offense. By that I mean that I believe our offense looks conservative primarily because we've only got one deep threat & secondly we haven't been running the ball like we've quickly grown accustomed to.

Both of those can be attributed to the quality of #2 WR we've got on our team. If Hopkins forces the LBs to play deeper, opening up our run game were we can put up some big plays with the ol' rope-a-dope.... I'm saying yeah.

For that to happen, he's got to have a Torrey Smith type rookie year. 40-50 catches, 16+ avg.

badboy
06-18-2013, 10:32 PM
I'll go ahead and post the names; you can read the verbiage at your leisure... (or not :D )
1. Arian Foster
2. Andre Johnson
3. Matt Schaub
4. Owen Daniels
5. The Offensive Line

I did this not to start another ranking discussion but to ask how do you think the list will look after this coming season....

I guess what I'm really asking is do you think Hopkins will crack the top five? Do you think, with A.J., Hopkins, and Keyshawn Martin (and maybe Posey) the WR corps will be the driving force of the 2013 Texans' offense? Maybe they supplant O.D. in importance this year...
What say you?As much as I hope WRs 2-? do well, I think RBs will do better than 2-?