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michaelm
05-22-2013, 11:49 AM
I'm at work, so haven't listened to the audio yet, but wanted to post it anyway.


Emmett: ‘Astrodome Will Be Torn Down Or Renovated By Super Bowl’

Harris County Judge Ed Emmett joined In The Loop with Nick and Lopez and they talked about the Astrodome and what the possibilities are for it and will there be a decision and resolution before the Super Bowl in Houston in 2017.


http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/22/emmett-reasonable-assurance-astrodome-will-be-torn-down-by-super-bowl/

eriadoc
05-22-2013, 03:09 PM
I clicked on this thread really hoping for audio from Emmitt rather than Emmett.

Norg
05-22-2013, 05:22 PM
tear it down and just plant a giant forest in its place


yes a giant greenery in the middle of a parking lot :kitten:

Double Barrel
05-22-2013, 05:42 PM
He's basically just saying that its eventual fate will be demolition. No way are they going to spend the tens of millions required to get the place up to code, much less whatever amount it would take to fancy it up for a Super Bowl.

I like Norg's idea of a park, but with the added feature of a giant Earl statue in the middle of it.

Lucky
05-22-2013, 07:58 PM
I clicked on this thread really hoping for audio from Emmitt rather than Emmett.
Emmitt Smith says,"The Dome will be debacled."

CloakNNNdagger
05-22-2013, 08:20 PM
“The Super Bowl was awarded based on a bid that had nothing to do with the Astrodome,” Emmett said.

Houston Super Bowl Bid Committee Chair Ric Campo said when pressed he would say Houston had a Super Bowl in 2004 with the Astrodome standing and it won’t be a problem again.

“Something needs to happen with it and they believe fundamentally that the process the county is going through right now is a reasonable, rational process or they wouldn’t give us the Super Bowl,” Campo said. “They were not connected. It was a positive event having this plan going forward.”

Emmett said the county has set a deadline of June 10 for private entities to offer financially sound ideas for the use of the dome. After that, public entities will have until June 25. He said it was likely a bond election would follow that gave voters the option between whatever option they decided was best and demolishing the Astrodome.

Emmett said he expects it to be resolved before the 2017 Super Bowl.
link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/05/county-sets-june-deadlines-for-astrodome-proposals/)

Why do I have the feeling that after whatever all is said and done with the Astrodome before the SuperBowl, we Harris County residents and Texans fans will have to fight for our pockets not to be picked?.........again......under the guise of the SuperBowl..........

eriadoc
05-22-2013, 09:21 PM
Emmitt Smith says,"The Dome will be debacled."

LOL, exactly!

TexanSam
05-22-2013, 09:30 PM
Tear it down and replace it with green space. Maybe include a small museum or something that includes a history of the dome and it's greatest moments.

pissknocker
05-22-2013, 09:37 PM
Tear it down and replace it with green space. Maybe include a small museum or something that includes a history of the dome and it's greatest moments.

HA green space dont equal no dollars. There aint one thing happening on Kirby that aint about the real green. Sorry but I say more parking spaces:kingkong:

chicagotexan2
05-22-2013, 10:01 PM
Emmitt Smith says,"The Dome will be debacled."

Emmit smith says 'turn the dome upside down and mâke it a giant swimmin poo and turn it into ****terbun like tha one in new brownsvilles'

CloakNNNdagger
05-22-2013, 10:16 PM
HA green space dont equal no dollars. There aint one thing happening on Kirby that aint about the real green. Sorry but I say more parking spaces:kingkong:

No, definitely a higher money generator needed.........maybe a family-oriented strip joint...........a (modified) Chuck E Cheezy............kid game areas in the perimeter areas and "adult activities" in the inner backrooms. :kitten:

paycheck71
05-22-2013, 11:06 PM
Emmitt Smith says,"The Dome will be debacled."

He also says, "There is a lot of poo-poo in the Astrodome..."

steelbtexan
05-23-2013, 10:43 AM
I want the Dome to stay, not only for it's historical relevance. But also because I dont want BoB to get his way. He has done eveything in his power to make sure the Dome is not a viable entity and he wants it to be torn down.

It's worth $200 a day to make BoB the carpetbagger not be able to force his will upon the taxpayers in Houston.

Mr teX
05-23-2013, 12:23 PM
I want the Dome to stay, not only for it's historical relevance. But also because I dont want BoB to get his way. He has done eveything in his power to make sure the Dome is not a viable entity and he wants it to be torn down.

It's worth $200 a day to make BoB the carpetbagger not be able to force is will upon the taxpayers in Houston.

If bob was smart he'd find some way to turn it into something profitable that involved the texans...

Hervoyel
05-23-2013, 12:24 PM
I say it all the time and the fact that I don't have several hundred million dollars laying around doesn't make it less true. You are talking about a building that covers over 9 acres of land with 2.5 million cubic feet of refrigerated air in a city where summers are filled with 100+ degree days.

If the people of Harris County can't collectively find something to do with that then they're too stupid and too unimaginative to deserve to keep it. I could walk into Ed Emmett's office today with a plan that would not only make money but would turn Reliant Park into a place that would draw events like the Super Bowl to it regularly and not just every 13 years or so IF someone else drops the ball.

The fact that I can't pay for it just gets in the way.

Parking garage underneath, massive climate controlled green space above wrapped in a hotel along the 610 side of the building that is fed traffic by a set of elevated entrance/exit roads running across the parking lot (providing shade for tailgaters in the process) and filled with events all summer long when the Texans and Rodeo use the place least.

The way to use the dome is obvious. The way to pay for it is the problem.

Double Barrel
05-23-2013, 01:06 PM
The way to use the dome is obvious. The way to pay for it is the problem.

BINGO. It's always about the money.

eriadoc
05-23-2013, 01:09 PM
The way to pay for it is the problem.

Actually, the way to pay for it isn't even the problem. It's who they want to pay for it. Bob McNair and his buddies could come up with the scratch to make that happen, but they won't because they know that in the end they can bilk the tax payers for it. All they have to do is hold out long enough, let the Dome because enough of an eyesore, let enough articles out that talk about how it's filled with rats, and let people forget that we're still paying off the bonds from Bud's renovation. The tax payers will eventually cave and they know it.

Norg
05-23-2013, 02:33 PM
ok if not green space just indulge in adult things I guess that's what people want rite


tear the dome down and put a new building there

Bar
Texans Showcase hall
Bar again
Tv's LOL

Hervoyel
05-23-2013, 02:59 PM
ok if not green space just indulge in adult things I guess that's what people want rite


tear the dome down and put a new building there

Bar
Texans Showcase hall
Bar again
Tv's LOL

Should be cheaper to put a new building inside the shell of what is already there.

Yankee_In_TX
05-23-2013, 03:06 PM
Sounds like all the proposals and ideas have been unfunded.

Unless a private proposal that includes private funding is made by June 10, then the county commissioners will likely put to the public a 'shell' / meeting space idea, and IIRC it had a $100,000,000.00 price tag.

If that is voted down by the public they will move forward with demolition.

It was interesting, he said by law they cannot present A, B, C and D for a vote, they have to make a decision and that is what the public votes on.

2012Champs
05-23-2013, 03:53 PM
Sounds like all the proposals and ideas have been unfunded.

Unless a private proposal that includes private funding is made by June 10, then the county commissioners will likely put to the public a 'shell' / meeting space idea, and IIRC it had a $100,000,000.00 price tag.

If that is voted down by the public they will move forward with demolition.

It was interesting, he said by law they cannot present A, B, C and D for a vote, they have to make a decision and that is what the public votes on.


I do believe a new cost analysis was presented not too long ago and it was much lower

Marcus
05-23-2013, 04:20 PM
It's real easy for someone who doesn't have the money to tell someone who has money where to go spend it.

You come up with all these ideas on what to do with the dome, yet don't back up the ideas with any money.

And what's even worse, you want people who have the money to spend it on your little idea, not giving one rip whether or not it might actually have a chance of turning a profit. And then get pissed off because the people who have the money don't wish to throw their money down a rat hole? Perfect.

All because of some silly sentimentalism over some unused, obsolete sports stadium.

CloakNNNdagger
05-23-2013, 04:50 PM
Everyone interested in the difficulties involved in the determination of the fate of the Astrodome needs to read this article published back in April 2012.



The expected price tag to demolish the Reliant Astrodome that Harris County officials have cited in recent years far exceeds the cost of razing other stadiums across the country, including domes of comparable size.

Officials with the Harris County Sports and Convention Corp. are preparing to release a study next month comparing the cost of knocking down the Dome with the price of renovating it in several forms.

Willie Loston, executive director of the Sports Corp., said the estimated cost of demolition is lower than that produced by a similar study two years ago, but declined to say the new number before members of Commissioners Court are informed.

The 2010 study estimated the cost of demolition at $78 million, including $10 million for asbestos removal and $10 million to put a “plaza” on the site after demolition. That does not include the $29.9 million the county still owes on the building, which has sat empty since the city deemed it unfit for occupancy in 2009, and has not been home to a team for more than a decade.

The priciest stadium demolition a Houston Chronicle examination found was $22 million for New York’s Yankee Stadium, which was completed in 2010.

Indianapolis’ RCA Dome cost $13 million to raze in 2008.

The Seattle Kingdome was imploded in 2000 for about $10 million, as was Giants Stadium in New Jersey, which was razed in 2010.

All had seating capacities similar to or larger than the Astrodome.

Edgardo Colon, board chairman for the Sports Corp., said several factors would drive up the cost of a Dome demolition, including its proximity to Reliant Stadium and its 30-foot-deep concrete substructure.

Loston added that the water table is high at the site, and said engineers have told him no building constructed like the Astrodome has been imploded.

“This is not your basic metro-dome implosion or anything like that, where there’s only parking lot that’s surrounding the stadium,” Colon said. “It’s a much more complicated endeavor.”

Demolition experts said the county’s estimate sounds high. Issues such as the substructure and proximity to other buildings, they said, are common with many demolition jobs.

Cincinnati’s Cinergy Field and Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers Stadium were blown up within feet of the new parks that replaced them, for example.

“Wow,” said Mike Taylor, executive director of the National Association of Demolition Contractors, when told of the estimate. “I should go back in the business if they’re going to give me $78 million to bring that down. I know my boots are somewhere.”

Mike Dokell, demolition division manager for Houston-based Cherry Demolition, and Jim Redyke, of Tulsa-based Dykon Explosive Demolition Corp., agreed.

“I think their estimate includes a lot of contingencies and a lot of worst-case scenarios and when they go out for bid they’ll be pleasantly surprised,” Dokell said. “The 78 (million) number includes a lot of things a demo guy is typically not going to include.”

The demolition experts said the only factor that would greatly drive up the cost of razing the Dome would be if the county chose to pull all of the concrete out of the ground to make it easier to build on the site in the future, as opposed to simply filling it with dirt and creating a plaza or parking lot.REST OF THE STORY (http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/04/16/experts-say-astrodome-demolition-price-tag-seems-high/)

2012Champs
05-23-2013, 04:58 PM
Everyone interested in the difficulties involved in the determination of the fate of the Astrodome needs to read this article published back in April 2012.



REST OF THE STORY (http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/04/16/experts-say-astrodome-demolition-price-tag-seems-high/)



this one came in at 29 million

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2013/03/20/texans-hlsr-study-says-astrodome.html

CloakNNNdagger
05-23-2013, 05:19 PM
this one came in at 29 million

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2013/03/20/texans-hlsr-study-says-astrodome.html

That's interesting. I spoke to one of the persons involved in the demolition process last year, and they said that $10 million for the abatement alone was very questionably low ball, and if the Dome base were then simply "filled in" and covered over with asphalt/concrete, it could not likely safely serve as base later for any substantial new future structure.....with a "dig out deconstruction" much more expensive than if it is done at the time that the asphalt/cement parking lot is laid.

Sounds much like a "pay me now or pay me later."

eriadoc
05-23-2013, 05:27 PM
It's real easy for someone who doesn't have the money to tell someone who has money where to go spend it.

Exactly, take note, McNair/Emmett/NFL.

You come up with all these ideas on what to do with the dome, yet don't back up the ideas with any money.

Exactly! It's all about what the tax payers can do for them.

And what's even worse, you want people who have the money to spend it on your little idea, not giving one rip whether or not it might actually have a chance of turning a profit.

And if it does turn a profit, they get to keep it all instead of it returning to the investors (tax payers).

And then get pissed off because the people who have the money don't wish to throw their money down a rat hole? Perfect.

Pissed? I don't know if they're pissed, but they sure do bring it up as a problem a lot. Whiners. Just because he has to watch it rot every day.

Oh wait ... you weren't going for that angle, were you? ;)

steelbtexan
05-23-2013, 05:33 PM
[QUOTE=eriadoc;2167543]Exactly, take note, McNair/Emmett/NFL.



Exactly! It's all about what the tax payers can do for them.



And if it does turn a profit, they get to keep it all instead of it returning to the investors (tax payers).



Pissed? I don't know if they're pissed, but they sure do bring it up as a problem a lot. Whiners. Just because he has to watch it rot every day.

Oh wait ... you weren't going for that angle, were you? ;)[/QUOTE}

MSR

It's good to see you understand what's going on in Texan land. BoB, watch it rot.

Maybe Marcus will get it? Probably not.

Marcus
05-23-2013, 08:11 PM
Maybe Marcus will get it? Probably not.

What I "get" is that you've hated "BoB" since effin Day One, as if he molested your daughter in Reliant's bathroom or something. That, I get, and have gotten a long time. It's a wonder why you have anything to do with the team at all, you're so f'king jaded.

Norg
05-25-2013, 04:03 PM
just hire a bunch of workers from mexico with some sledge hammers and drills and a couple of cases of C4 and TNT feed them and pay them and there get the job done :kitten: that wont cost 30 Million maybe half dat price like 8.8 million

ObsiWan
05-25-2013, 06:53 PM
No, definitely a higher money generator needed.........maybe a family-oriented strip joint...........a (modified) Chuck E Cheezy............kid game areas in the perimeter areas and "adult activities" in the inner backrooms. :kitten:
Jean!!:mcnugget:
I'm honestly taken aback.

The image I had for you is now... :pop:

You need to stay away from TB and DreadHead. They are corrupting you man.
:kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2013, 07:21 PM
Jean!!:mcnugget:
I'm honestly taken aback.

The image I had for you is now... :pop:

You need to stay away from TB and DreadHead. They are corrupting you man.
:kitten:

Sam!!!

I'm extremely concerned over your acute state of deteriorating mental state. You must call my office on Monday for a thorough examination. It is concerning to me that you have begun to suffer from severely distorted and diminished interpretive skills.:)

http://www.dearshrink.com/eyeofbeholder.jpg

ObsiWan
05-28-2013, 02:30 PM
Sam!!!

I'm extremely concerned over your acute state of deteriorating mental state. You must call my office on Monday for a thorough examination. It is concerning to me that you have begun to suffer from severely distorted and diminished interpretive skills.:)

http://www.dearshrink.com/eyeofbeholder.jpg

Hey!!
I thought doctor/patient privledge prohibited you from posting my picture and telling all about my "sessions"
:foottap:

CloakNNNdagger
05-28-2013, 08:45 PM
Hey!!
I thought doctor/patient privledge prohibited you from posting my picture and telling all about my "sessions"
:foottap:

Well, if you would have just written your name in the right place, we wouldn't be having to deal with this whole mess!:kitten:

http://my2ndheartbeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/hipaa.jpg?w=640

steelbtexan
05-28-2013, 09:30 PM
What I "get" is that you've hated "BoB" since effin Day One, as if he molested your daughter in Reliant's bathroom or something. That, I get, and have gotten a long time. It's a wonder why you have anything to do with the team at all, you're so f'king jaded.

If you mean jaded as in I dont like my tax $$$$ going to billionaires so that they can build lavish playpens and then have the hudzpah to ask for these same taxpayers to pay for tearing down the only worlwide drawing card this city has ever had and also was the major contributor to the Dome becoming the run down piece of crap it is today. Just so BoB's taxpayer subsidized playpen can get a few more $$$$ out of the parking concessions, you are correct sir.

However I'm able to separate my dislike for BoB the businessman from BoB the owner of the Texans. I just dont care for the BoB fanboys who think BoB started the Texans as some kind of Salvation Army project because he wanted to right the wrong that Bud (Another fraud) perputrated on this city. BoB bought the Texans and has profited handsomely from that decision. Despite having put a marginal product, with questionable leadership at best for the better part of a decade.

Do you think BoB has done everything in his power to put the best product possible on the field at all times. If you do that's where we differ. But this difference doesn't make either one of us less of a Texans fan. I just happen to think BoB is in this for a different reason than you do.

BTW, do a little reasearch on BoB, Enron and how BoB made the $$$ to purchase the Texans. You will quickly find out that BoB greatly profited off of others misery in the Enron debacle. But no, BoB really cares about the city of Houston and its future.

PS, I noticed you didn't respond to Eridoc's post. I would like to know your thoughts.

steelbtexan
05-28-2013, 09:33 PM
Well, if you would have just written your name in the right place, we wouldn't be having to deal with this whole mess!:kitten:

http://my2ndheartbeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/hipaa.jpg?w=640

LOL

Texan_Bill
05-28-2013, 09:39 PM
A one time junior architect that worked on the plans of the Dome and now a very well respected local architect for a national firm told me nearly 10 years ago, abatement of asbestos alone would be nearly $30 million BEFORE implosion and excavation.

I've posted these $ numbers several times. And YES, sorry Honorable Judge Ed Emmett, the price tag of $80 mill. is not that far off.

steelbtexan
05-28-2013, 09:43 PM
A one time junior architect that worked on the plans of the Dome and now a very well respected local architect for a national firm told me nearly 10 years ago, abatement of asbestos alone would be nearly $30 million BEFORE implosion and excavation.

I've posted these $ numbers several times. And YES, sorry Honorable Judge Ed Emmett, the price tag of $80 mill. is not that far off.

Is spending 80 mil worth a SB to you?

infantrycak
05-28-2013, 09:51 PM
Is spending 80 mil worth a SB to you?

It is city property. Why is it you think the city shouldn't be the one to deal with it in some fashion (other than your epic hatred of all things connected with McNair)?

steelbtexan
05-28-2013, 10:11 PM
It is city property. Why is it you think the city shouldn't be the one to deal with it in some fashion (other than your epic hatred of all things connected with McNair)?

Not hatred,

I just dont think taxpayer $$$ should be spent to tear it down. So that BoB can profit. Especially when bonds are still being held on the property. Are you for paying more tax $$$$ so that BoB can have a bigger parking lot?

In short, BoB has the county by the short hairs and he knows this. The county/private enterprise cant renovate the Dome without BoB's/HLSR's approval. (Not gonna happen)

So if the County is smart they will let BoB look at it rot every day. (Doubtful)

Why does getting a SB seem to be contingent on tearing down the Dome? This wasn't a problem with the previous SB. Could it be that County comissioners/BoB/HSLR are using the SB as an excuse to do what they've wanted to do all along? (Tear down the Dome) Leverage?

What is not true about my statements in regards to BoB's business practices? I'm suprised more people aren't appalled about how BoB conducts his business. (Souless) I guess that BoB bringing football back to Houston trumps all. Regardless of all of the damage done to all of the poor Enron souls. Maybe this makes me an idealist, (Not a hater) but I just have a little more compassion for those that lost their life savings than most on this MB. Of course I realize that this is a Texans MB and my opinion will be in the minority.

I've got no problem taking an unpopular stance when I know people who have suffered thru the Enron debacle.

infantrycak
05-28-2013, 10:27 PM
Not hatred,

I just dont think taxpayer $$$ should be spent to tear it down. So that BoB can profit. Especially when bonds are still being held on the property. Are you for paying more tax $$$$ so that BoB can have a bigger parking lot?

In short, BoB has the county by the short hairs and he knows this. The county/private enterprise cant renovate the Dome without BoB's/HLSR's approval. (Not gonna happen)

So if the County is smart they will let BoB look at it rot every day. (Doubtful)

Why does getting a SB seem to be contingent on tearing down the Dome? This wasn't a problem with the previous SB. Could it be that County comissioners/BoB/HSLR are using the SB as an excuse to do what they've wanted to do all along? (Tear down the Dome)

Yes hatred and it has been clear from your posts for years. Try having any sense of objectivity at all.

The SB was not contingent hence us getting another one without a plan for the Astrodome - end of argument on that point.

Why do you blame McNair instead of HLSR?

Please explain how the county benefits by paying $1.5 mil per year for nothing.

You don't like McNair and you are pissed off about past decisions having nothing to do with how to resolve the current situation.

steelbtexan
05-28-2013, 11:38 PM
Yes hatred and it has been clear from your posts for years. Try having any sense of objectivity at all.

{Quote///} Really, LOL lets get past the hatred thingy. I dont like spending taxpayer $$$$ on sporting complexes.

The SB was not contingent hence us getting another one without a plan for the Astrodome - end of argument on that point.

{Quote///} And you konw this how? BoB must have told you. LOL

Why do you blame McNair instead of HLSR? {Quote////} I blame both of them

Please explain how the county benefits by paying $1.5 mil per year for nothing.

{Quote///} The county was able to pay down the debt on the bonds and I believe if the Dome had torn down the abilty to pay the bond debt off would have been compromised. If BoB/HLSR had allowed the Dome to be renovated into something that would have created profits then then the bonds would've already been paid off. Now all we have is an eye sore.

You don't like McNair and you are pissed off about past decisions having nothing to do with how to resolve the current situation.

There are many things I dont care for about how BoB does business. This Is just another example. My main problem with Bob is 1. I dont believe he dies everything possible to put the best peoduct on the field as possible. 2. His association with the with he Enron debacle.

Sorry to get off this thread topic. Lets try to stay on the Astrodome topic. You konw what they say, never play pool with a hustler and never argue with a lawyer. LOL

2012Champs
05-29-2013, 12:45 AM
There are many things I dont care for about how BoB does business. This Is just another example. My main problem with Bob is 1. I dont believe he dies everything possible to put the best peoduct on the field as possible. 2. His association with the with he Enron debacle.

Sorry to get off this thread topic. Lets try to stay on the Astrodome topic. You konw what they say, never play pool with a hustler and never argue with a lawyer. LOL



I'd love for you to go into detail about McNair, cogen tech and Enron and why all of which makes you so angry. If it needs another thread it could be started

steelbtexan
05-29-2013, 01:07 AM
I'd love for you to go into detail about McNair, cogen tech and Enron and why all of which makes you so angry. If it needs another thread it could be started

I'm not angry

He sold Cogen to Enron basically for stock. Then sold said stock just before Enron went just like Lay/Fastow/Skilling did. Only somehow he got away with it. (Guessing he got an inside tip and wasn't prosecuted because he wasn't an employ.)

Anyway, he tripled his $$$$. (Just as he has with the Texans.) Meanwhile most Enron employees lost all of their retirement and had to start new careers late in their lives instead of retiring.

But maybe BoB is just an unbelieveably great businessman, with an immpecable sense of timing.

2012Champs
05-29-2013, 01:34 AM
I'm not angry

He sold Cogen to Enron basically for stock. Then sold said stock just before Enron went just like Lay/Fastow/Skilling did. Only somehow he got away with it. (Guessing he got an inside tip and wasn't prosecuted because he wasn't an employ.)

Anyway, he tripled his $$$$. (Just as he has with the Texans.) Meanwhile most Enron employees lost all of their retirement and had to start new careers late in their lives instead of retiring.

But maybe BoB is just an unbelieveably great businessman, with an immpecable sense of timing.


I think your timing might be off


''If they had been going a slower speed, the results would not have been disastrous,'' said Bob McNair, a Houston energy entrepreneur who sold the bulk of his own company to Enron three years ago. But Enron, he said in an interview this month, was like a race car, and the markets like an unforgiving track. ''It's a lot harder to keep it on the track at 200 miles per hour,'' he said. ''You hit a bump and you're off the track.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/29/business/enron-s-collapse-the-chief-executive-foundation-gives-way-on-chief-s-big-dream.html?pagewanted=all

b0ng
05-29-2013, 09:02 AM
I'm not angry

He sold Cogen to Enron basically for stock. Then sold said stock just before Enron went just like Lay/Fastow/Skilling did. Only somehow he got away with it. (Guessing he got an inside tip and wasn't prosecuted because he wasn't an employ.)

Anyway, he tripled his $$$$. (Just as he has with the Texans.) Meanwhile most Enron employees lost all of their retirement and had to start new careers late in their lives instead of retiring.

But maybe BoB is just an unbelieveably great businessman, with an immpecable sense of timing.

That's some really hokey ass reasoning to spew bile about a person on message boards for years.

steelbtexan
05-29-2013, 09:56 AM
That's some really hokey ass reasoning to spew bile about a person on message boards for years.

Not bile, why is it when anybody disagrees with anything BoB/Texan related they are called a hater. I am just pointing out that BoB has flaws just like the rest of us. He's an opportunist. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Look my wife and I disagree on many things and I'm glad she doesn't see me as a hater. LOL

She calls me alot worse names than Hokey though. LOL

2012Champs
05-29-2013, 10:29 AM
Not bile, why is it when anybody disagrees with anything BoB/Texan related they are called a hater. I am just pointing out that BoB has flaws just like the rest of us. He's an opportunist. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Look my wife and I disagree on many things and I'm glad she doesn't see me as a hater. LOL

She calls me alot worse names than Hokey though. LOL



I dont think its a simple disagreement that is in question but rather your rant anytime something comes up. That and its not all fact based either.


Did you or your wife work for Enron?

steelbtexan
05-29-2013, 11:28 AM
I dont think its a simple disagreement that is in question but rather your rant anytime something comes up. That and its not all fact based either.


Did you or your wife work for Enron?

No

And did BoB profiteer off of Enron, while others lost their shirts? I just have compassion for the peons when it comes to the Enron fiasco. My grandfather taught math to the guy who created the Forney perpetual loop, that created the California blackouts.

Are you saying for sure there was no insider trading, although it seemed to be the order of the day at Enron?

I dont see discussing this topic as a rant. I'm just saying anybody that had upper level access isn't lily white as BoB appears to be. But to each his own.

2012Champs
05-29-2013, 11:59 AM
No.




I would have guessed otherwise given your hate for Bob and looping him in with Enron's collapse

And did BoB profiteer off of Enron, while others lost their shirts? I just have compassion for the peons when it comes to the Enron fiasco. My grandfather taught math to the guy who created the Forney perpetual loop, that created the California blackouts.


What I do know if that Bob founded Cogen Tech and sold most of the company and its assets to the California Public Employee Retirement System and Enron. Did Bob make money? I am sure he did and why shouldnt he? The guy built a company, took risks and multiple parties wanted to buy it from him. This has nothing to do with Peons other than you tying emotion into your hate for Bob. Bob didnt make money at the sametime others lost their shirts, your timing/memory is off

Are you saying for sure there was no insider trading, although it seemed to be the order of the day at Enron?

I cant speak either way to say if there was or wasnt anything illegal when this transaction went through and you cant either. I will tell you though to me it is a lot less likely that someone would dump everything they own in a stock years before it went bankrupt. More likely Bob was willing to take the stock as payment but didnt think the company was run well and got out.




I dont see discussing this topic as a rant. I'm just saying anybody that had upper level access isn't lily white as BoB appears to be. But to each his own.




The rant would be the slow addition of every negative mention whenever you get the chance even if it doesnt fit.

Marcus
05-29-2013, 12:03 PM
No

And did BoB profiteer off of Enron, while others lost their shirts? I just have compassion for the peons when it comes to the Enron fiasco. My grandfather taught math to the guy who created the Forney perpetual loop, that created the California blackouts.

Are you saying for sure there was no insider trading, although it seemed to be the order of the day at Enron?

I dont see discussing this topic as a rant. I'm just saying anybody that had upper level access isn't lily white as BoB appears to be. But to each his own.

Anytime you post something which has the word "BoB" in it, which is ALL the time, you're on a rant . . . again. You wouldn't know what 'being objective' was if jumped up and bit you in the ass.

Regarding eriadoc, he doesn't want tax dollars spent on tearing it down. That's fine. But the taxpayers are already pouring 1.5 million down a black hole for the annual maintenance and upkeep. When is that going to end? By just letting it sit there and rotting? I don't think so.

steelbtexan
05-29-2013, 12:15 PM
Anytime you post something which has the word "BoB" in it, which is ALL the time, you're on a rant . . . again. You wouldn't know what 'being objective' was if jumped up and bit you in the ass.

Regarding eriadoc, he doesn't want tax dollars spent on tearing it down. That's fine. But the taxpayers are already pouring 1.5 million down a black hole for the annual maintenance and upkeep. When is that going to end? By just letting it sit there and rotting? I don't think so.

Are you judge and jury of some so called rant police?

You are right they are going to tear it down at the Taxpayers expense. So when you need public services and they are slow or dont show up at all just remember where you wanted your tax $$$$ to be spent.

The county should have never signed off on a deal that gave BoB/HSLR the power to decide whether the Dome should be renovated or give them the power to to make the dome fall in such disrepair that it would have to be demolished. It was really shortsighted thinking on the county officials at the time.

This is not a rant, but I did use the name BoB 1 time in this post. LOL

ChampionTexan
05-29-2013, 01:14 PM
I'm not angry

He sold Cogen to Enron basically for stock. Then sold said stock just before Enron went just like Lay/Fastow/Skilling did. Only somehow he got away with it. (Guessing he got an inside tip and wasn't prosecuted because he wasn't an employ.)

Anyway, he tripled his $$$$. (Just as he has with the Texans.) Meanwhile most Enron employees lost all of their retirement and had to start new careers late in their lives instead of retiring.

But maybe BoB is just an unbelieveably great businessman, with an immpecable sense of timing.

Okay SBT - one question (the last sentence in the post):

Enron's acquisition of Cogen was announced in late Oct./early Nov. 1998. At that time, Enron stock was around $27 or $28 per share. The deal was stated to have a value of $1.45 Billion (keep in mind this is at a per share value below $30).
The Enron Corporation agreed yesterday to acquire interests in three power plants in New Jersey from the privately held Cogen Technologies for $1.1 billion plus assumed debt of $350 million.
LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/31/business/company-news-enron-to-purchase-stakes-in-cogen-power-plants.html)

Over the next three years, Enron stock rose to the upper $80's in late 2000 (or more than triple the price Bob received it at), and then dropped to essentially zero by the end of 2001.

Essentially, based on these values, had Bob sold at the peak, the shares he received for his $1.45 Billion sale would have been worth in excess of $3 Billion.

What makes you believe he sold at the peak as opposed to selling shortly after he divested his firm - well before Enron's stock price was at it's peak?

Hervoyel
05-29-2013, 01:20 PM
What I can't figure out is why this has to be done in a single monolithic project with a ridiculous price tag. I'd approach the problem as a series of steps that start with the decision to save it.

Step one following that would be to stabilize the situation and replace the dilapidated exterior so that it ceases to be an eyesore. How much would it cost to simply re-do the exterior in the same smooth silver material that covers Reliant Center and parts of Reliant Stadium?

This stuff
http://wayfinding-consultants.com/project%20images/rc01.jpg

Eyesore gone. Attractive building at the center of Reliant Park that no one can complain about accomplished.

Now for step 2 focus on interior demolition. Remove the seating and in fact most everything inside the shell as every plan mentioned to date has suggested. No one outside the Astrodome would even know there was work going on inside. Once the seating is removed you take as much of the interior floor of the dome as possible down to the playing surface level 35' below grade.

How much does it cost to design and build a parking garage? Constructing it inside the Astrodome would at least have the advantage of never being slowed by weather. 2 stories? 3 stories? put enough in to bring the new "floor" of the dome up to roughly ground level.

Inside underground parking for 18-21 acres of cars would remove a lot of cars from the surface lots that are not involved in tailgating. That would free up even more space for tailgaters so don't just think of money made from people who would be parking there. Think of the money people would pay to get more room to tailgate. Think of what you could put in space freed up by those cars.

8-10 games a year (plus playoffs) the party just got bigger and at the same time more convenient for people who just want to get in and go to the game. More people means more money even if they are just staying in the parking lot tailgating all day.

Now you have an empty shell that's got a flat floor with 2-3 levels of parking underneath. It's climate controlled, it's not unattractive from outside, and it contributes something that wasn't there before to offset its expense.

Put something in it. Call it expanded Reliant Center space and put nothing in it if you like. At this point there's no need to rush to decide what to do with it. It can be used for events as is.

2012Champs
05-29-2013, 01:36 PM
What I can't figure out is why this has to be done in a single monolithic project with a ridiculous price tag. I'd approach the problem as a series of steps that start with the decision to save it.

Step one following that would be to stabilize the situation and replace the dilapidated exterior so that it ceases to be an eyesore. How much would it cost to simply re-do the exterior in the same smooth silver material that covers Reliant Center and parts of Reliant Stadium?

This stuff
http://wayfinding-consultants.com/project%20images/rc01.jpg

Eyesore gone. Attractive building at the center of Reliant Park that no one can complain about accomplished.

Now for step 2 focus on interior demolition. Remove the seating and in fact most everything inside the shell as every plan mentioned to date has suggested. No one outside the Astrodome would even know there was work going on inside. Once the seating is removed you take as much of the interior floor of the dome as possible down to the playing surface level 35' below grade.

How much does it cost to design and build a parking garage? Constructing it inside the Astrodome would at least have the advantage of never being slowed by weather. 2 stories? 3 stories? put enough in to bring the new "floor" of the dome up to roughly ground level.

Inside underground parking for 18-21 acres of cars would remove a lot of cars from the surface lots that are not involved in tailgating. That would free up even more space for tailgaters so don't just think of money made from people who would be parking there. Think of the money people would pay to get more room to tailgate. Think of what you could put in space freed up by those cars.

8-10 games a year (plus playoffs) the party just got bigger and at the same time more convenient for people who just want to get in and go to the game. More people means more money even if they are just staying in the parking lot tailgating all day.

Now you have an empty shell that's got a flat floor with 2-3 levels of parking underneath. It's climate controlled, it's not unattractive from outside, and it contributes something that wasn't there before to offset its expense.

Put something in it. Call it expanded Reliant Center space and put nothing in it if you like. At this point there's no need to rush to decide what to do with it. It can be used for events as is.


You simply are just throwing around ideas as though they are feasible. If this plan was in anyway a profitble possible venture it would more than likely be in the works. Reskinning and rebuilding the dome from the inside out would seem to be too big of a risk

eriadoc
05-29-2013, 01:50 PM
Regarding eriadoc, he doesn't want tax dollars spent on tearing it down. That's fine. But the taxpayers are already pouring 1.5 million down a black hole for the annual maintenance and upkeep. When is that going to end? By just letting it sit there and rotting? I don't think so.

Minor clarification - I don't want tax payer dollars spent tearing it down if it's just going to be handed over to a private entity for private profit. I'm OK with spending tax payer dollars to tear it down and either leave it empty (not preferable) or build something that pays back the tax payers (even a parking lot). What I suspect will actually happen is it'll be turned into parking for Reliant and Bob will get a huge chunk of the proceeds. And I am against THAT.

Hervoyel
05-29-2013, 02:32 PM
You simply are just throwing around ideas as though they are feasible. If this plan was in anyway a profitble possible venture it would more than likely be in the works. Reskinning and rebuilding the dome from the inside out would seem to be too big of a risk

You're making the assumption that if it would work someone certainly would have already proposed it. If the principles aren't interested in anything but a parking lot then why would they suggest anything like this? All I've seen over the years have been grandiose ideas that hadn't a hope in hell of being approved by voters. I've yet to see anyone propose something as modest as a half parking garage, half expansion to Reliant Center slash replacement for Reliant Arena.

So far it's been swing for the fences regardless of whether it makes sense or just tear it down. I don't think that's working. Nobody has come up with a homerun/money-machine idea and they aren't going to because it isn't there.

On the other hand the George R. Brown isn't getting any bigger.... ever. It's pretty much hemmed in and all across the country people are building bigger, more amazing convention centers to compete for big-dollar events. Reliant Center is already big but Reliant Center plus the Reliant Astrodome is on another level entirely.

It could keep getting used by the HLS&R as exhibition space. They could move the entire carnival indoors for the whole run of the rodeo if they wanted to.

It could be used by the Texans as indoor event space during games

If we're going to tear something down in Reliant Park lets make it Reliant Arena and not the Astrodome.

2012Champs
05-29-2013, 02:43 PM
You're making the assumption that if it would work someone certainly would have already proposed it. If the principles aren't interested in anything but a parking lot then why would they suggest anything like this? All I've seen over the years have been grandiose ideas that hadn't a hope in hell of being approved by voters. I've yet to see anyone propose something as modest as a half parking garage, half expansion to Reliant Center slash replacement for Reliant Arena.

So far it's been swing for the fences regardless of whether it makes sense or just tear it down. I don't think that's working. Nobody has come up with a homerun/money-machine idea and they aren't going to because it isn't there.

On the other hand the George R. Brown isn't getting any bigger.... ever. It's pretty much hemmed in and all across the country people are building bigger, more amazing convention centers to compete for big-dollar events. Reliant Center is already big but Reliant Center plus the Reliant Astrodome is on another level entirely.

It could keep getting used by the HLS&R as exhibition space. They could move the entire carnival indoors for the whole run of the rodeo if they wanted to.

It could be used by the Texans as indoor event space during games

If we're going to tear something down in Reliant Park lets make it Reliant Arena and not the Astrodome.


Is said it someone thought they could make money off of it it would be in the works. Dont sit here and act like the dome has gone unused to a year or two its been a while that nothing has happend

Hervoyel
05-29-2013, 05:12 PM
Is said it someone thought they could make money off of it it would be in the works. Dont sit here and act like the dome has gone unused to a year or two its been a while that nothing has happend

I've said many times over the past decade that I believe the reason the dome has been sitting unused is that the intent has always been to demolish it but the political courage necessary to step up and say "We're tearing it down" has been lacking.

I don't think that anyone in office has wanted to go out in the open and lead the charge to demo the dome so it sits. I don't think that anyone in a position to do anything about it has any interest in an affordable and modest plan to use the facility. That's what I think. That's all I'm saying.

ObsiWan
05-29-2013, 06:35 PM
No

And did BoB profiteer off of Enron, while others lost their shirts? I just have compassion for the peons when it comes to the Enron fiasco. My grandfather taught math to the guy who created the Forney perpetual loop, that created the California blackouts.

Are you saying for sure there was no insider trading, although it seemed to be the order of the day at Enron?

I dont see discussing this topic as a rant. I'm just saying anybody that had upper level access isn't lily white as BoB appears to be. But to each his own.

From Forbes magazine...
Bob McNair celebrated the best year ever for his NFL team as the Houston Texans went 12-4 in the regular season. He and his partners paid $700 million for the expansion team a decade ago. Forbes ranks the Texans as the 5th most valuable football team, worth $1.3 billion; McNair owns the vast majority. He made his fortune selling power plant operator Cogen Technologies to Enron in 1999, and he still owns stakes in a couple power plants. The Robert and Janice McNair Foundation funds college scholarships for kids in his home state of North Carolina; in 2007 he donated $100 million to Baylor College of Medicine in Houston to attract top-notch doctors.

Enron went under in 2001. McNair sold an energy company that ran power plants (he still owns some in NY state) to Enron two years before they collapsed. And McNair used that money to attract other investors so he could get an NFL team back in Houston.

You're timing is way off on this one SteelB.

but maybe this article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/10/07/nfl-owners-love-the-gop/) will make you feel better...


The NFL is filled with fat cat owners who have gotten rich on the backs of their football teams like Jerry Jones (http://www.forbes.com/profile/jerry-jones) and Dallas Cowboys. Others have built their empires through outside means like Paul Allen (http://www.forbes.com/profile/paul-allen) and Microsoft (http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=msft&tab=searchtabquotesdark). By our count there are 15 NFL owners with net worths of at least $1 billion (http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2011/08/31/the-nfls-billionaire-owners/).
Not surprisingly, these owners overwhelmingly funnel their political contributions to candidates in the Republican Party according to a new study by the Center for Responsive Politics (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/10/nfl-teams-play-political-football.html) that looked at contributions of NFL owners, players and coaches.

Leading the way is Houston Texans owner Robert McNair (http://www.forbes.com/profile/robert-mcnair) who made his fortune when he sold power operator Cogen Technologies to Enron in 1999. McNair, worth $1.5 billion, contributed $215,200 to Republican political candidates since January 2009. Democrats got nothing. Led by McNair, the Texans are the most politically active team with total contributions of $293,100. A couple of Texans broke ranks from the boss with $5,800 steered towards Democratic candidates.

...hell, now *I* may have to find a new team
:D

CloakNNNdagger
05-29-2013, 07:59 PM
Here's a deconstructionist view of the Astrodome built on old swamp land (not desert as it may appear), as seen in late 1963 before the exoskeleton was covered.

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/562750727/Astrodome5.jpg

steelbtexan
05-30-2013, 12:07 AM
From Forbes magazine...


Enron went under in 2001. McNair sold an energy company that ran power plants (he still owns some in NY state) to Enron two years before they collapsed. And McNair used that money to attract other investors so he could get an NFL team back in Houston.

You're timing is way off on this one SteelB.

but maybe this article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/10/07/nfl-owners-love-the-gop/) will make you feel better...



...hell, now *I* may have to find a new team
:D

When did he sell the stock he received from the sell of his company? When did upper management at Enron realize the company was going down the tubes? I would love to know the time frame that BoB sold his stock, Lay sold his stock, Fastow, Skilling ect...

No need to find a new team, too much is already invested in this one.

steelbtexan
05-30-2013, 12:09 AM
Here's a deconstructionist view of the Astrodome built on old swamp land (not desert as it may appear), as seen in late 1963 before the exoskeleton was covered.

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/562750727/Astrodome5.jpg

Cool pic

ChampionTexan
05-30-2013, 01:17 AM
When did he sell the stock he received from the sell of his company? When did upper management at Enron realize the company was going down the tubes? I would love to know the time frame that BoB sold his stock, Lay sold his stock, Fastow, Skilling ect...

No need to find a new team, too much is already invested in this one.
According to Forbes, he sold the stock right away (meaning at about a third of it's ultimate peak).

Sold Cogen Technologies to Enron for $1.5 billion in cash and stock at peak of tech bubble; avoided exposure to free-falling market, Enron bankruptcy by selling stock right after deal closed. Used cash to become hometown hero; brought football back to Houston in 2002 NFL expansion. Stake in Houston Texans worth $618 million today. Team's home commands the priciest naming rights in U.S. sports: Reliant Energy paid $300 million in 2000 to call stadium Reliant Park for 30 years. Horseman sold Kentucky's Stonerside Stables to Dubai's Sheik Mohammed last year.
link (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/10/billionaires-2009-richest-people_Robert-McNair_ZDPI.html)

ObsiWan
05-30-2013, 03:42 AM
When did he sell the stock he received from the sell of his company? When did upper management at Enron realize the company was going down the tubes? I would love to know the time frame that BoB sold his stock, Lay sold his stock, Fastow, Skilling ect...

No need to find a new team, too much is already invested in this one.

http://www.time.com/time/interactive/0,31813,2013797,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2021097_2023262,00.html

this Wiki piece is really in-depth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

The web is full of Enron articles and disections on how it all went down. There are waaay more references/connections to Dick Chaney and Dubya than McNair. I went thru half a dozen of them and no where is there even a mention of the company McNair sold to Enron. Bob sold power plant assets to Enron in 1999. Enron started to completely unravel in 2001.

2012Champs
05-30-2013, 08:01 AM
When did he sell the stock he received from the sell of his company? When did upper management at Enron realize the company was going down the tubes? I would love to know the time frame that BoB sold his stock, Lay sold his stock, Fastow, Skilling ect...

No need to find a new team, too much is already invested in this one.



You were off base on this one and its time to just admit one of the main reasons you had to hate Bob has no factual basis. There were YEARS between Bobs sale and Enron's demise

Marcus
05-30-2013, 10:28 AM
You were off base on this one and its time to just admit one of the main reasons you had to hate Bob has no factual basis. There were YEARS between Bobs sale and Enron's demise

He knows good and well that he has no factual basis for any of it. He's just concocting a bunch of BS because he knows himself how silly it makes him look to constantly hate on McNair all because McNair doesn't happen to be running the team the way HE wants it to be run.

steelbtexan
05-30-2013, 05:44 PM
He knows good and well that he has no factual basis for any of it. He's just concocting a bunch of BS because he knows himself how silly it makes him look to constantly hate on McNair all because McNair doesn't happen to be running the team the way HE wants it to be run.

What does that have to do with the Astrodome thingy. One of the former Enron employee told me that McNair was in deep with the scum at Enron. I believed him. Facts appear to be different.

As far as running the team goes if you mean putting the best product possible on the field at all times is how I would like to see the team run you are correct sir.

2012Champs
05-30-2013, 06:24 PM
What does that have to do with the Astrodome thingy. One of the former Enron employee told me that McNair was in deep with the scum at Enron. I believed him. Facts appear to be different.

As far as running the team goes if you mean putting the best product possible on the field at all times is how I would like to see the team run you are correct sir.


I knew there had to be an employment angle to your anger. "An employee told me" I'm sure a lot of the same assumptions on their part and certainly not jaded at all

Double Barrel
06-18-2013, 06:48 PM
We drove by the Astrodome last Sunday and my wife had a good question: Why don't they pressure wash it?

Seriously, that alone would improve the look of it.

Texan_Bill
06-18-2013, 08:25 PM
We drove by the Astrodome last Sunday and my wife had a good question: Why don't they pressure wash it?

Seriously, that alone would improve the look of it.

Your wife is a smart woman. I've been asking myself that same question since September 8th, 2002 (or technically several months, even a year before that while on jobsite visits).

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2013, 06:05 PM
Does the Astrodome need a bath? (http://www.khou.com/news/local/Does-the-Astrodome-need-a-bath--205314481.html)


$500,000???????? http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss261/fem1992/smiley_drunkonchair.gif

Heath Shuler
06-19-2013, 06:10 PM
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Sports-Corp-recommends-converting-Dome-into-4610316.php


Sports Corp. promises 'new Dome experience'




Saying none of the 19 privately submitted ideas for repurposing the Astrodome met the required criteria, Harris County Sports and Convention Corp. officials said they will recommend converting the Dome into a massive convention and exhibition space, promising "a new Dome experience."

"We feel we have the best idea," Sports Corporation Executive Director Willie Loston said. "That idea is a space that will allow many of the ideas that the proposals brought forward to take place."

Under the $194 million plan being recommended by the Sports Corp., the seating would be removed and the existing below-ground portion of the stadium would be filled in to create a street-level exhibit space of 355,000 square feet. The exterior of the structure would transformed into "an inviting green plaza," officials said.

The proposal will be officially presented to Harris County Commissioners Court at its June 25 capital improvement projects meeting, though Harris County Ed Emmett's office issued a statement saying sports corporation officials have briefed court members throughout the selection process.

In a statement released during the meeting, Emmett praised the sports corporation's plan.

"The concept is excellent," Emmett said. "It not only preserves an iconic structure, but it gives Houston and Harris County a truly unique and historic venue for conferences and events. Meeting planners around the world will want to use the space."

In order to be considered, privately submitted proposals had to include private funding, must be compatible with lease agreements with the Houston Texans and the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, as well as the master plan of the Reliant Park complex. None of the ideas submitted by private groups or individuals met those criteria, Loston said.

Loston previously had said that some of the submissions were little more than ideas, while a few appeared to be professionally developed proposals.

HJam72
06-19-2013, 06:37 PM
What about my idea for an indoor, air-conditioned topless bar/amusement park? :foottap:

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2013, 06:59 PM
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Sports-Corp-recommends-converting-Dome-into-4610316.php


Sports Corp. promises 'new Dome experience'

The way it is worded, it does not seem this is going to be strictly "private".............it is not even worded as to assuring that it is not entirely taxpayer funded.

Heath Shuler
06-19-2013, 07:28 PM
The way it is worded, it does not seem this is going to be strictly "private".............it is not even worded as to assuring that it is not entirely taxpayer funded.

http://reliantpark.com/sites/reliantpark.com/files/DomeExperience.pdf

Here is the press release from the Harris County Sports &
Convention Corporation (HCSCC). I don't see anything about where the money is coming from.

Playoffs
06-19-2013, 07:41 PM
The way it is worded, it does not seem this is going to be strictly "private".............it is not even worded as to assuring that it is not entirely taxpayer funded.

The private funding will be $100 each per commissioner -- funded through kickbacks.

The remaining $193,999,000 will come out of taxpayer's pockets, as will the $100,000,000 in cost overruns.

Hervoyel
06-20-2013, 11:14 AM
Does the Astrodome need a bath? (http://www.khou.com/news/local/Does-the-Astrodome-need-a-bath--205314481.html)


$500,000???????? http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss261/fem1992/smiley_drunkonchair.gif


It does need a bath. I mean, that's what you do with assets that you have invested money in. You maintain them and part of maintaining buildings is cleaning them. You see window washers downtown all the time. That skyline doesn't stay shiny all by itself you know.

Whenever the "Tear it down" folks get together all you hear about is how nasty it is and how bad it looks. Pictures of splitting seat covers and dust covered stuff are everywhere. Old Astroturf stacked in a haphazard manner.

Like anyone intends to keep any of the seats when it's redeveloped? Really? Those are coming out and we all know that. Dust cleans up. Astroturf can be hauled away, sold in pieces to nostalgic football or baseball fans. All those old computers and TV sets that are covered in dust are coming out. Nobody points to dangerous, rusted beams because the building is fine. It's a big cleanup project away from basically looking like its old self.

Pressure wash it or better yet get started on replacing the exterior façade. It does look dated clean or not. If it were wrapped in something that looks like Reliant Stadium and Reliant Center it would be perfect. Clean the roof, get the paint off of the skylights, and actually maintain the damn thing and it won't be the eyesore that so many complain about.

I like this plan. I'm willing to chip in my share to help pay for it. I think it's a good investment.

2012Champs
06-20-2013, 01:25 PM
It does need a bath. I mean, that's what you do with assets that you have invested money in. You maintain them and part of maintaining buildings is cleaning them. You see window washers downtown all the time. That skyline doesn't stay shiny all by itself you know.

Whenever the "Tear it down" folks get together all you hear about is how nasty it is and how bad it looks. Pictures of splitting seat covers and dust covered stuff are everywhere. Old Astroturf stacked in a haphazard manner.

Like anyone intends to keep any of the seats when it's redeveloped? Really? Those are coming out and we all know that. Dust cleans up. Astroturf can be hauled away, sold in pieces to nostalgic football or baseball fans. All those old computers and TV sets that are covered in dust are coming out. Nobody points to dangerous, rusted beams because the building is fine. It's a big cleanup project away from basically looking like its old self.

Pressure wash it or better yet get started on replacing the exterior façade. It does look dated clean or not. If it were wrapped in something that looks like Reliant Stadium and Reliant Center it would be perfect. Clean the roof, get the paint off of the skylights, and actually maintain the damn thing and it won't be the eyesore that so many complain about.

I like this plan. I'm willing to chip in my share to help pay for it. I think it's a good investment.




its very hard to determine how good of an investment it may be due to the total lack of numbers around the idea. You want to keep it partially due to emotional attatchment which is typically a bad way to invest

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2013, 01:35 PM
If the Dome were to be power washed, in order to avoid it quickly returning to its present state, it would require the metal and concrete to be sealed in a separate operation, probably tripling the cost. Removing paint from the roof would require attention to 4,600 separate skylights. Once removed the two layers of plastic sandwiched between the inner and outer glass of each of the glass panels would be burned to a cinder by now and would leave a brown mottled even uglier appearance to the roof. If they were to repaint the roof after stripping it, it would require preparation and two coats of paint just like the original painting process which in 1964 cost $40,000 (for a Dome whose total cost in those days were $35 million.) I believe the costs of doing a basic "cleanup" of the exterior of the Dome could easily creep substantially from the bare power wash in order to make things "acceptable."

eriadoc
06-20-2013, 01:39 PM
It does need a bath. I mean, that's what you do with assets that you have invested money in. You maintain them and part of maintaining buildings is cleaning them. You see window washers downtown all the time. That skyline doesn't stay shiny all by itself you know.

Whenever the "Tear it down" folks get together all you hear about is how nasty it is and how bad it looks. Pictures of splitting seat covers and dust covered stuff are everywhere. Old Astroturf stacked in a haphazard manner.

Like anyone intends to keep any of the seats when it's redeveloped? Really? Those are coming out and we all know that. Dust cleans up. Astroturf can be hauled away, sold in pieces to nostalgic football or baseball fans. All those old computers and TV sets that are covered in dust are coming out. Nobody points to dangerous, rusted beams because the building is fine. It's a big cleanup project away from basically looking like its old self.

Pressure wash it or better yet get started on replacing the exterior façade. It does look dated clean or not. If it were wrapped in something that looks like Reliant Stadium and Reliant Center it would be perfect. Clean the roof, get the paint off of the skylights, and actually maintain the damn thing and it won't be the eyesore that so many complain about.

I like this plan. I'm willing to chip in my share to help pay for it. I think it's a good investment.

Agreed. Sucks that it took all these years to come to the conclusion that they could use it as a space to put events in. That's as detailed as their plan is currently, and people have been saying that since the Astros left the facility.

Hervoyel
06-20-2013, 03:40 PM
You simply are just throwing around ideas as though they are feasible. If this plan was in anyway a profitble possible venture it would more than likely be in the works. Reskinning and rebuilding the dome from the inside out would seem to be too big of a risk


With the exception of the parking underneath (which I think they really should consider because it would free up so much more space outside for tailgating passes) they basically chose my idea.

Guess they thought it was maybe a little feasible after all.

Hervoyel
06-20-2013, 03:49 PM
If the Dome were to be power washed, in order to avoid it quickly returning to its present state, it would require the metal and concrete to be sealed in a separate operation, probably tripling the cost. Removing paint from the roof would require attention to 4,600 separate skylights. Once removed the two layers of plastic sandwiched between the inner and outer glass of each of the glass panels would be burned to a cinder by now and would leave a brown mottled even uglier appearance to the roof. If they were to repaint the roof after stripping it, it would require preparation and two coats of paint just like the original painting process which in 1964 cost $40,000 (for a Dome whose total cost in those days were $35 million.) I believe the costs of doing a basic "cleanup" of the exterior of the Dome could easily creep substantially from the bare power wash in order to make things "acceptable."


It took 48 years to reach its present state. I question your definition of "quickly" in this case.

But that does make me wonder something. When was the last time anyone cleaned the outside of the dome? Have they ever done it? Did they seal it then?

As for the roof I agree, the more things you decide to fix the more money it is going to cost. Since the power washing @ $500,000 was going to cost us each 12 cents (or somewhere in that neighborhood) I think we should go ahead and each pay a full buck to get the deluxe treatment. That way it would last longer.

2012Champs
06-20-2013, 03:54 PM
With the exception of the parking underneath (which I think they really should consider because it would free up so much more space outside for tailgating passes) they basically chose my idea.

Guess they thought it was maybe a little feasible after all.



Nothing is actually done nor would it prove be be cost efficient or a money maker. Dont go tooting your own horn before anything is done

Hervoyel
06-20-2013, 04:00 PM
its very hard to determine how good of an investment it may be due to the total lack of numbers around the idea. You want to keep it partially due to emotional attatchment which is typically a bad way to invest


The presence of emotional attachment doesn't preclude a logical desire to see something the taxpayers already have a significant investment in maintained and repurposed to extend its useful life.

What they are proposing appears to me to make the dome an asset and to provide a viable replacement for the space that would be lost should they choose to tear down Reliant Arena. I am guessing that saving the dome probably means that Reliant Arena will be on its way out and that's fine. It's probably a much cheaper structure to remove than the dome.

Doing that would give the Texans and HLS&R the parking and space they crave while putting the events that would have been in the Reliant Arena into the Dome which is closer to Reliant Center and the stadium.

Hervoyel
06-20-2013, 04:08 PM
Nothing is actually done nor would it prove be be cost efficient or a money maker. Dont go tooting your own horn before anything is done

Nothing is done. No doubt an election will need to be held to approve financing of some sort. I just said they appear to have chosen the same kind of idea I put forth. I'm going to enjoy just a little horn tooting whether you like it or not.

:bguitar::coolb:

Can't find a smiley with a horn to toot so I'm gonna play some guitar instead.

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2013, 06:50 PM
It took 48 years to reach its present state. I question your definition of "quickly" in this case.

But that does make me wonder something. When was the last time anyone cleaned the outside of the dome? Have they ever done it? Did they seal it then?

As for the roof I agree, the more things you decide to fix the more money it is going to cost. Since the power washing @ $500,000 was going to cost us each 12 cents (or somewhere in that neighborhood) I think we should go ahead and each pay a full buck to get the deluxe treatment. That way it would last longer.

By that calculation, we could all pitch in a mere $71 and get another $300 million dollar stadium.:texflag:

Hervoyel
06-20-2013, 08:06 PM
By that calculation, we could all pitch in a mere $71 and get another $300 million dollar stadium.:texflag:

I sense that 2012Champs and other would balk at such a princely sum.

2012Champs
06-21-2013, 11:22 AM
I sense that 2012Champs and other would balk at such a princely sum.



Im sure there was a hint in sarcasm in there

Marcus
06-21-2013, 11:47 AM
Since the power washing @ $500,000 was going to cost us each 12 cents (or somewhere in that neighborhood) I think we should go ahead and each pay a full buck to get the deluxe treatment. That way it would last longer.

There's a whole slew of things that could be bought if we just "chipped in a buck". Like building some better schools or hiring some more police officers.

Bottom line, is this is going to be put to the voters, asking them to increase their taxes, to do what now? That's a snowball's chance in hell if I ever saw one.

Hervoyel
06-21-2013, 12:00 PM
There's a whole slew of things that could be bought if we just "chipped in a buck". Like building some better schools or hiring some more police officers.

Bottom line, is this is going to be put to the voters, asking them to increase their taxes, to do what now? That's a snowball's chance in hell if I ever saw one.

I've seen the voters do stranger things in my time and I'd wager so have you. Until the votes are in I'm not taking anything for granted. I know what I'd like to see and hope I see but I have to agree with 2012Champs about it not being a done deal. That's true either way.

Hervoyel
06-21-2013, 12:01 PM
Im sure there was a hint in sarcasm in there


Maybe a smidgen or so. :)