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Playoffs
05-14-2013, 02:04 PM
Not sure I agree with the ordering of many of these players, but it at least is not the joke the NFL Network's list is -- and it's done by guys who watch & grade every game.

Certainly challenges conventional wisdom, but you have to go to the linked article (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/02/pffs-top-101-of-2012-30-to-21/) and backtrack to the rankings to read why they ended up where the did.

ProFootballFocus' Top 101 Players in the NFL (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/06/pffs-top-101-of-2012-the-full-list/)Every year the PFF team gets together, and every year there is mayhem.

Getting six individuals to put together an inherently subjective list of the top 101 players in the NFL in 2012 is a grueling process, but once again we’ve reached our destination.

Now some things are pretty important in understanding the criteria for the list;

- This is based solely on 2012 play. Nothing that happened in years previous was accounted for.

- This is created with an “all-positions created equal” mantra, so it asks for a leap of faith that you assume a guard is an important as a quarterback (there are some exceptions here with more situational roles not quite as equal).
https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/top101watt.png

1. J.J. Watt, DE, Houston Texans
2. Adrian Peterson, RB, Minnesota Vikings
3. Geno Atkins, DT, Cincinnati Bengals
4. Von Miller, OLB, Denver Broncos
5. Richard Sherman, CB, Seattle Seahawks
6. Evan Mathis, OG, Philadelphia Eagles
7. Peyton Manning, QB, Denver Broncos
8. Cameron Wake, DE, Miami Dolphins
9. Andre Johnson, WR, Houston Texans
10. Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers

11. Aaron Rodgers, QB, Green Bay Packers
12. Calvin Johnson, WR, Detroit Lions
13. Duane Brown, LT, Houston Texans
14. Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, New York Jets
15. Eric Weddle, S, San Diego Chargers
16. Joe Staley, LT, San Francisco 49ers
17. Matt Ryan, QB, Atlanta Falcons
18. C.J. Spiller, RB, Buffalo Bills
19. Charles Tillman, CB, Chicago Bears
20. Gerald McCoy, DT, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

21. Tom Brady, QB, New England Patriots
22. Kyle Williams, DT, Buffalo Bills
23. Russell Wilson, QB, Seattle Seahawks
24. Clay Matthews, OLB, Green Bay Packers
25. Jairus Byrd, S, Buffalo Bills
26. John Sullivan, C, Minnesota Vikings
27. Vincent Jackson, WR, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
28. Devin McCourty, DB, New England Patriots
29. Calais Campbell, DE, Arizona Cardinals
30. Brandon Marshall, WR, Chicago Bears

31. Robert Griffin III, QB, Washington Redskins
32. Marshal Yanda, RG, Baltimore Ravens
33. Antonio Cromartie, CB, New York Jets
34. Joe Thomas, LT, Cleveland Browns
35. Max Unger, C, Seattle Seahawks
36. Casey Hayward, CB, Green Bay Packers
37. Michael Crabtree, WR, San Francisco 49ers
38. Alfred Morris, RB, Washington Redskins
39. Vernon Davis, TE, San Francisco 49ers
40. Marshawn Lynch, RB, Seattle Seahawks

41. A.J. Green, WR, Cincinnati Bengals
42. Rob Gronkowski, TE, New England Patriots
43. Jerod Mayo, LB, New England Patriots
44. Tony Gonzalez, TE, Atlanta Falcons
45. Demaryius Thomas, WR, Denver Broncos
46. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, New York Giants
47. Ryan Clady, LT, Denver Broncos
48. Reshad Jones, S, Miami Dolphins
49. Roddy White, WR, Atlanta Falcons
50. Alex Boone, RG, San Francisco 49ers

51. Percy Harvin, WR, Minnesota Vikings
52. Michael Roos, LT, Tennessee Titans
53. Mike Iupati, LG, San Francisco 49ers
54. Sebastian Vollmer, RT, New England Patriots
55. Russell Okung, LT, Seattle Seahawks
56. Reggie Wayne, WR, Indianapolis Colts
57. Aldon Smith, OLB, San Francisco 49ers
58. Antoine Winfield, CB, Minnesota Vikings
59. NaVorro Bowman, LB, San Francisco 49ers
60. Ndamukong Suh, DT, Detroit Lions

61. Bobby Wagner, LB, Seattle Seahawks
62. Jason Witten, TE, Dallas Cowboys
63. Anquan Boldin, WR, Baltimore Ravens
64. Chris Harris, CB, Denver Broncos
65. Derrick Morgan, DE, Tennessee Titans
66. Anthony Spencer, OLB, Dallas Cowboys
67. Derrick Johnson, LB, Kansas City Chiefs
68. Nick Fairley, DT, Detroit Lions
69. Charles Johnson, DE, Carolina Panthers
70. Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Pittsburgh Steelers

71. Frank Gore, RB, San Francisco 49ers
72. Antonio Smith, DE, Houston Texans
73. Julio Jones, WR, Atlanta Falcons
74. Daryl Washington, LB, Arizona Cardinals
75. Tarrell Brown, CB, San Francisco 49ers
76. Brandon Graham, DE, Philadelphia Eagles
77. Jason Hatcher, DE, Dallas Cowboys
78. Brandon Moore, RG, New York Jets
79. Drew Brees, QB, New Orleans Saints
80. Anthony Davis, RT, San Francisco 49ers

81. Colin Kaepernick, QB, San Francisco 49ers
82. Lavonte David, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
83. Patrick Peterson, CB, Arizona Cardinals
84. Henry Melton, DT, Chicago Bears
85. Will Beatty, LT, New York Giants
86. Greg Hardy, DE, Carolina Panthers
87. Justin Smith, DE, San Francisco 49ers
88. Doug Martin, RB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
89. Lawrence Timmons, LB, Pittsburgh Steelers
90. Eli Manning, QB, New York Giants

91. Dwayne Allen, TE, Indianapolis Colts
92. Ray Rice, RB, Baltimore Ravens
93. Sam Shields, CB, Green Bay Packers
94. Jared Veldheer, LT, Oakland Raiders
95. Jurrell Casey, DT, Tennessee Titans
96. Dez Bryant, WR, Dallas Cowboys
97. T.J. Ward, S, Cleveland Browns
98. Champ Bailey, CB, Denver Broncos
99. Reggie Nelson, S, Cincinnati Bengals
100. Joe Flacco, QB, Baltimore Ravens
101. Blair Walsh, K, Minnesota Vikings

eriadoc
05-14-2013, 02:27 PM
I didn't go through the entire list, but I agree with Watt being #1. He had absolutely as much impact on the Texans' wins as any player in football had for their team. He was dominant from start to finish, and had one of the two or three best seasons from a defensive player in my lifetime.

The Pencil Neck
05-14-2013, 02:35 PM
I just can't believe Arian's not on the list. 15 rushing TDs should count for something.

Double Barrel
05-14-2013, 02:51 PM
lol @ Joe Flacco being no. 100 on the list. Dude had one of the best post season performances in NFL history, won the Super Bowl and earned the SB MVP, yet a couple of flashy rookies are higher on the list.

yeah, that's credible. :rake: I'm not even a Flacco fanboy

Playoffs
05-14-2013, 03:03 PM
lol @ Joe Flacco being no. 100 on the list. Dude had one of the best post season performances in NFL history, won the Super Bowl and earned the SB MVP, yet a couple of flashy rookies are higher on the list.

yeah, that's credible. :rake: I'm not even a Flacco fanboy

What PFF said...

100. Joe Flacco, QB, Baltimore Ravens (Unranked last year)

If this list were built solely on those four postseason games that culminated with the Ravens’ quarterback hoisting the Lombardi Trophy, then Joe Flacco would rank right at the very top. But it’s not, and there were 16 other games that can’t be discounted where Flacco struggled with accuracy for a Ravens team that stumbled into the playoffs. Flacco was truly special in the playoffs, showing the kind of poise and knack for the big play that was integral in his team winning it all.

Best Performance: Week 16 versus New York Giants, +6.8

Key Stat: Owned a stunning 16 touchdowns to zero interception ratio on all balls thrown at least 20 yards in the air.

A poor game is any rating below-1. In the regular season Brady & Rogers had no game ratings below -1, Manning had one, Flacco had five and Schaub four(barely missing on two others). Sanchez had eight, fwiw.

Firing Cam Cameron helped greatly.

Double Barrel
05-14-2013, 03:10 PM
What PFF said...



A poor game is any rating below-1. In the regular season Brady & Rogers had no game ratings below -1, Manning had one, Flacco had five and Schaub four(barely missing on two others). Sanchez had eight, fwiw.

Firing Cam Cameron helped greatly.

I understand all of that. I just disagree.

Regular season is merely a means to an end. That end is getting to the playoffs.

I put a LOT more emphasis on post season performance and outcome than PFT seems to put on it, and I'm cool with the disagreement. I do not share their perspectives on quantifying regular season stats as high as they seem to do.

I guess I should ask where is Matt Schaub since the regular season means so much to them. Dude had his third 4000+ passing season in 2012. Even won a playoff game.

No big deal. It's not my list.

Texn4life
05-14-2013, 03:56 PM
Its crazy how many 49ers are on that list. Damn that's a stacked team! If they don't win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years it'll be a colossal failure.

Fili
05-14-2013, 05:14 PM
Matt Ryan over Tom Brady... eh

thunderkyss
05-14-2013, 05:48 PM
I understand all of that. I just disagree.

Regular season is merely a means to an end. That end is getting to the playoffs.

I put a LOT more emphasis on post season performance and outcome than PFT seems to put on it, and I'm cool with the disagreement. I do not share their perspectives on quantifying regular season stats as high as they seem to do.

I guess I should ask where is Matt Schaub since the regular season means so much to them. Dude had his third 4000+ passing season in 2012. Even won a playoff game.

No big deal. It's not my list.

Well... he didn't play well enough to get to the postseason. His team did. Even with the 4 play-off wins, I don't think he had a better season than Matt Schaub.

& I don't like Matt Schaub.

Flacco was bleh... in the play-offs. Really good in the Super Bowl. Nope, I don't agree with him being the Super Bowl MVP.. Jacoby Jones stole the momentum with his kickoff return for a TD & he scored on that big play... with the underthrown ball. Take those two plays away & SF wins the SuperBowl.

I get that you disagree & that's great. That's what makes discussions interesting. But I'm more "concerned" about that list when Flacco is on it & Matt Schaub isn't.

Hell, I'm more concerned that Dwayne Allen is on the list & Matt Schaub isn't.

Double Barrel
05-14-2013, 06:04 PM
Well... he didn't play well enough to get to the postseason. His team did. Even with the 4 play-off wins, I don't think he had a better season than Matt Schaub.

& I don't like Matt Schaub.

Flacco was bleh... in the play-offs. Really good in the Super Bowl. Nope, I don't agree with him being the Super Bowl MVP.. Jacoby Jones stole the momentum with his kickoff return for a TD & he scored on that big play... with the underthrown ball. Take those two plays away & SF wins the SuperBowl.

I get that you disagree & that's great. That's what makes discussions interesting. But I'm more "concerned" about that list when Flacco is on it & Matt Schaub isn't.

Hell, I'm more concerned that Dwayne Allen is on the list & Matt Schaub isn't.

We could probably dissect just about every QBs post season games in a team sport. Watch NFL Films on a regular basis and you often see the margins between winning and losing are very slim at that level.

But saying Joe Flacco had "bleh" playoff performance is just out of touch, man.

Zero picks and 11 TDs in four post season wins. Dude had a fantastic post season performance by anyone's standards. It will most likely go down as his best ever. I wish we would see the same from Schaub. We could only be so lucky, y'know?

I'm far from a Flacco fan, but I am a fan of the NFL in general. I love seeing performances like that, even with a team I might dislike. But I have no problem in agreeing to disagree, especially about something so superficially trivial.

I think PFT's list is a lot of bias, both for and against. No Schaub, but Big Ben gets no. 70?? PFT seems to quantify everything with stats and percentages. But, it's their list, so doesn't bother me a bit. Just like I could not care less about Rolling Stone's Top 100 Albums of All Time or Guitar World's 100 Greatest Guitarists, it's all opinion based on some arbitrary set of rules. Take it as the opinions that these lists represent and with a grain of salt.

Playoffs
05-14-2013, 06:12 PM
Flacco was bleh... in the play-offs.

Flacco was excellent in the playoffs, rated equal to Matt Ryan by PFF just ahead of Kaepernick.

And I'd give your left nut for Dwayne Allen.

RazorOye
05-15-2013, 08:40 AM
I think PFT's list is a lot of bias, both for and against. No Schaub, but Big Ben gets no. 70?? PFT seems to quantify everything with stats and percentages. But, it's their list, so doesn't bother me a bit. Just like I could not care less about Rolling Stone's Top 100 Albums of All Time or Guitar World's 100 Greatest Guitarists, it's all opinion based on some arbitrary set of rules. Take it as the opinions that these lists represent and with a grain of salt.

agreed...

and I'd take the guy at number 79 over Big Ben and a lot of other QBs ranked ahead of him

b0ng
05-15-2013, 09:08 AM
lol @ Joe Flacco being no. 100 on the list. Dude had one of the best post season performances in NFL history, won the Super Bowl and earned the SB MVP, yet a couple of flashy rookies are higher on the list.

yeah, that's credible. :rake: I'm not even a Flacco fanboy

After watching just how bad he was against the Texans, I have no problem seeing Joe Flacco at the bottom of a top 100.

eriadoc
05-15-2013, 10:27 AM
and I'd take the guy at number 79 over Big Ben and a lot of other QBs ranked ahead of him

Yeah, I don't get that at all. If you have a QB that threw for over 5000 yards (for the 3rd time, no less) and 43 TDs rated #79, you kind of suck at rating players.

nero THE zero
05-15-2013, 12:54 PM
Had no idea Muhammad Wilkerson had that good of a year last year.

Also pretty shocking that Spiller is the second best RB in the league.

thunderkyss
06-01-2013, 07:49 PM
Have you guys seen this?

PFF Top 101 (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/06/pffs-top-101-of-2012-the-full-list/)
For those not doing the math the San Francisco 49ers led all teams with 13 players selected. The next most were Denver and Seattle with six each, followed by Minnesota and New England with five.

Only Jacksonville and St Louis failed to land a player on the list.

Jj Watt is number 1,
Andre is 9
Duane Brown 13
Antonio Smifff is 72


No Myers, Schaub, or Foster.

paycheck71
06-01-2013, 08:43 PM
Oops...

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100151

thunderkyss
06-01-2013, 10:02 PM
I guess y'all did see it......


& apparently so did I.

:embarrass:

tru80texan
06-02-2013, 01:23 AM
Have you guys seen this?

PFF Top 101 (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/06/pffs-top-101-of-2012-the-full-list/)


Jj Watt is number 1,
Andre is 9
Duane Brown 13
Antonio Smifff is 72


No Myers, Schaub, or Foster.

I think the biggest snub is Foster.

Schaub...well...we all know what happened there.:deadhorse:

Myers is a ZBS guy & it seems he is being overlooked based in it. Some may say the same about Foster, but I have my doubts that he could not be highly productive in other schemes.

Marshall
06-02-2013, 06:01 AM
Not sure I agree with the ordering of many of these players, but it at least is not the joke the NFL Network's list is -- and it's done by guys who watch & grade every game.

Certainly challenges conventional wisdom, but you have to go to the linked article (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/02/pffs-top-101-of-2012-30-to-21/) and backtrack to the rankings to read why they ended up where the did.

ProFootballFocus' Top 101 Players in the NFL (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/06/pffs-top-101-of-2012-the-full-list/)
https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/top101watt.png

If Arian Foster isn't on the list, it is suspect at best and ridiculous to me.

welsh texan
06-02-2013, 06:54 AM
If Arian Foster isn't on the list, it is suspect at best and ridiculous to me.

Yeh, the dude wasn't at his immaculate best last season but he wasn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, I'd still take him, at his age, in our system, over anyone else in the league right now.

The ZBS we run relies on the whole of the line playing well, and Myers had a lot of rotation to his right side with very young guys and Wade Smith to his left who is JAG these days after a good debut season as a Texan. If your job is to work your blocks to other guys and move on, then you kinda rely on the guy you are passing him on to to make you look good.

I don't think we can blame anti-ZBS bias on the lack of Myers in the top 101 here, PFF have been jizzing all over Myers for a number of years previously, but that was when he was playing with a better Wade Smith, a perfectly suited and healthy Mike Briesel, and an excellent run-game OT in Eric Winston. I personally am beginning to get the impression the Texans are well set-up to get back to their best on that front within the next couple of years with the young talent they've stockpiled of late.

thunderkyss
06-02-2013, 12:18 PM
Myers is a ZBS guy & it seems he is being overlooked based in it. Some may say the same about Foster, but I have my doubts that he could not be highly productive in other schemes.

Everybody is playing in a system. Some guys are playing extremely well in the system they are playing, some guys aren't. Whether Foster or Myers is playing in the ZBS shouldn't be seen as any different than RG3 playing out of the pistol offense.

tru80texan
06-03-2013, 03:23 AM
Everybody is playing in a system. Some guys are playing extremely well in the system they are playing, some guys aren't. Whether Foster or Myers is playing in the ZBS shouldn't be seen as any different than RG3 playing out of the pistol offense.

You don't say... Everyone is playing in a system??? LOL! Just messing w/ you!

The point is Myers is not believed to be interchangable in any system. Some question whether or not ZBS o-lineman would actually be successful in other systems based on their size & skill set. I'm not saying I agree, but it is nothing new to hear this nor is it a surprise for some players to not receive their due credit for their play simply based on the ZBS. Some say the same of Arian, the difference is I believe Arian could thrive in other systems based on his God given talent. Im not sure the same could be said about Myers.