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View Full Version : Ed Reed will miss OTA's due to hip surgery.


SW H-TOWN
05-03-2013, 12:53 PM
$#*@

http://profootballzone.com/nfl/ed-reed-underwent-hip-surgery-will-miss-otas-and-minicamp/

rolyat93
05-03-2013, 12:54 PM
Part of the deal with him. As long as he's ready to go for the start of the real season, it's no big deal.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2013, 01:01 PM
This was reported as something that was going to happen before he even signed.

Although I believe the "hip" part is wrong. I'm pretty sure it's his shoulder.

SW H-TOWN
05-03-2013, 01:06 PM
Swearinger, "Jungle Boi"...hilarious nickname, better bring his a game to OTA's and training camp. Hope Ed Reed heals fast, maybe he can get some dear antler spray from Ray.

SW H-TOWN
05-03-2013, 01:09 PM
This was reported as something that was going to happen before he even signed.

Although I believe the "hip" part is wrong. I'm pretty sure it's his shoulder.

Hope they knew about it before he signed. Anybody got a link? Probably showed up when they did his medical but I'm just curious because I had not heard anything about this prior to today.

Rey
05-03-2013, 01:21 PM
Did he already have the surgery?

If not, why wait so late to have it?

Jackie Chiles
05-03-2013, 01:29 PM
Ugh, I already bought my OTA playoff tickets too. Non-refundable even!

CloakNNNdagger
05-03-2013, 01:31 PM
Did he already have the surgery?

If not, why wait so late to have it?

If I remember correctly, he actually had major hip reconstruction some years ago. No mention if this recent (last week) arthroscopic surgery was on the same hip.

Rey
05-03-2013, 01:35 PM
If I remember correctly, he actually had major hip reconstruction some years ago. No mention if this recent (last week) arthroscopic surgery was on the same hip.

Is there any reason why they'd wait until the tail end of the off season to do this surgery?

CloakNNNdagger
05-03-2013, 02:07 PM
Is there any reason why thpley'd wait until the tail end of the off season to do this surgery?

When dealing with a "minor" tear, players can many times rehab by trying to strengthen the muscles around the hip joint. If they continue to have significant debilitating pain or limited free range of motion, arthroscopy is performed. The Texans may have seen that the rehab alone wasn't working and rather see him attend to it now rather than into the season. Seeing that Reed made his original injury much worse by trying to work through the pain before finally succumbing to major reconstructive surgery (found a link:
Jun 26, 2010
Ravens S Ed Reed says hip is healing and he wants to play at least one more year (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/06/ravens-s-ed-reed-says-hip-is-healing-and-he-wants-to-play-at-least-one-more-year/1#.UYQDQL4o5rQ)), he may have not told anyone that he was having problems at all and the Texans medical staff may not have caught it when signing him up........probably being more concerned about his shoulder.

We are not told if this is the same previously reconstructed or the other hip joint.........as each may carry their own unique implications.

bhsman
05-03-2013, 03:18 PM
Ugh, I already bought my OTA playoff tickets too. Non-refundable even!

Poor bastard, you might have to talk to JJ and Arian instead. :kitten:

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2013, 03:19 PM
This was reported as something that was going to happen before he even signed.

Although I believe the "hip" part is wrong. I'm pretty sure it's his shoulder.

Well.

I knew about his shoulder labrum having an issue last year. I wasn't aware that his hip was still bothering him.

Insideop
05-03-2013, 04:13 PM
If I remember correctly, he actually had major hip reconstruction some years ago. No mention if this recent (last week) arthroscopic surgery was on the same hip.

Doc, this doesn't sound good. I know Reed is not the player he was a number of years ago but this sounds like something that is normally career ending for most. Is he more susceptible to a career ending hip injury now or is his hip stronger since the surgery and it's a non issue?

kingtexan
05-03-2013, 05:05 PM
Tony. Boselli.

chenjy9
05-03-2013, 05:16 PM
Doesn't he usually skip out on OTA's anyways?

CloakNNNdagger
05-03-2013, 05:18 PM
Doc, this doesn't sound good. I know Reed is not the player he was a number of years ago but this sounds like something that is normally career ending for most. Is he more susceptible to a career ending hip injury now or is his hip stronger since the surgery and it's a non issue?

At this point, there are a lot of holes in the information available. If it is his other hip and it is indeed "minor" requiring only minor debridement, I have seen patients weight bear within 1 week and be back within 4-6 weeks. On the other hand, if this is to go back into the previously reconstructed hip, return could be anywhere from 8-24 weeks, depending on the extent of surgery was necessary and if it involved revision of the iliotibial band graft which I found was used to reconstruct the labrum.

In either case, it has been shown if there is significant chondromalacia (essentially destruction of the cartilage) in the joint present, which is almost certainly the case in an example of major labral reconstruction, arthritis becomes a major factor in obtaining long-term success/performance. Even small labral tears may be associated with significant underlying areas of cartilage damage.

As always, we will need to wait for additional information or just have to be patient to see how his rehab progresses to extrapolate the extent of his injury(ies).

Fili
05-03-2013, 06:28 PM
One reason why the Ravens didn't sign him.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2013, 10:03 PM
One reason why the Ravens didn't sign him.

You know they offered him almost as much money as we did, right?

Fili
05-03-2013, 10:34 PM
You know they offered him almost as much money as we did, right?

Yeah but they didn't go more.

BlueSteel
05-04-2013, 12:31 AM
Yeah but they didn't go more.

I think his point was that they TRIED to sign him back. Your post implied that the did not want him anymore.

DocBar
05-05-2013, 10:33 PM
I had arthroscopic hip surgery in Aug. 2009 for femoral-acetabular impingement and articular and labrum tears in my right hip. I was on crutches for 2 weeks and rehabbed for a month. I felt better the day after surgery than the day before. I'm not overly concerned about Reed's surgery. I would let him rehab it till training camp or longer. Reed is a smart veteran that can learn the defense from the sidelines.

CloakNNNdagger
05-06-2013, 09:52 AM
I had arthroscopic hip surgery in Aug. 2009 for femoral-acetabular impingement and articular and labrum tears in my right hip. I was on crutches for 2 weeks and rehabbed for a month. I felt better the day after surgery than the day before. I'm not overly concerned about Reed's surgery. I would let him rehab it till training camp or longer. Reed is a smart veteran that can learn the defense from the sidelines.

DocBar, from my recollection of our discussions, your surgery did not involve a graft harvested from a remote site. Is my memory faulty?

BullNation4Life
05-06-2013, 10:11 AM
As far as I am concerned , Ed Reed can sit out the entire training camp, which I bet he milks this until end of TC, as long as he is good to go Game 1 of the season.

I think it is stupid for veterans, especially 10 + year vets, to have to attend training camp, or at least partial camp. What are you going to teach a 10 + year vet that he doesn't already know?

badboy
05-06-2013, 10:12 AM
Keep in mind the previous hip injury was in 2010 and he played 10 games. 2011 & 2012 played 16 games each with 52 and 58 tackles respectfully. I am not worried.

srrono
05-06-2013, 01:18 PM
Texans a 'little concerned' about Ed Reed's hip surgery (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000167099/article/houston-texans-a-little-concerned-about-ed-reeds-surgery?campaign=Twitter_atl)

Following Ed Reed's recent hip surgery, we got the "minor" and "will be ready for camp" routine. This ignored the fact that Reed turns 35 in September and he had surgery on his hip. It's always minor when it's someone else.

A few days after the news first broke, the Houston Texans are already sounding more realistic. Owner Bob McNair admitted Monday that Reed might not be ready until "the middle" of training camp, according to Nick Scurfield of HoustonTexans.com.

Defensive coordinator Wade Phillips admitted he's a "little concerned" with Reed's surgery because of the timing. Reed didn't undergo surgery right after the season, presumably because it wouldn't be a good look as he searched for a new team in free agency. The delay could wind up costing Reed the entire OTA/minicamp season in addition to a chunk of the preseason.

Reed has been a very durable player throughout his career, but there's reason to think he'll only last one season in Houston.
Did Reed conceal this injury?
Is this an reocuring injury?
Where do the Texans go from here?
Sign another vet?

drs23
05-06-2013, 01:27 PM
Texans a 'little concerned' about Ed Reed's hip surgery (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000167099/article/houston-texans-a-little-concerned-about-ed-reeds-surgery?campaign=Twitter_atl)


Did Reed conceal this injury?
Is this an reocuring injury?
Where do the Texans go from here?
Sign another vet?

Giddy Up, DJ!

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 01:27 PM
The Texans need to be patient with Reed. His importance to the team won't be during the beginning of the season anyway. The overall goal should be having him healthy by Week 1. If he's ready before then, well great. If its a week or 2 after week 1 then its no big deal IMO. We do need him healthy towards the latter half of the season and into the playoffs though. No reason to rush him at this point.

srrono
05-06-2013, 01:39 PM
Giddy Up, DJ!

Not what I mean. If Reed gone yes DJ steps in but the huge problem is who steps in for DJ as 3rd safety. I really don't want to see more of Keo.

srrono
05-06-2013, 01:49 PM
Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley 14m Think #Texans fans putting Boselli/A Green on Ed Reed overlearning lessons. Each player unique. That said, buyer beware on $100 Reed jersey.

HOU-TEX
05-06-2013, 01:49 PM
Didn't we do a physical on him?

Nick Scurfield ‏@NickScurfield 27m
Kubiak on Ed Reed (hip): "We didn't expect it, but it started bothering him. That's when we got aggressive in what we needed to do"

The Pencil Neck
05-06-2013, 01:54 PM
Didn't we do a physical on him?

That sounds like it was a known issue that wasn't bothering him when we did the physical. Then after we signed him, he started having some pain or something and so we jumped on it aggressively.

sigh

HoustonFrog
05-06-2013, 02:11 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/261272/football-headlines?r=1

Coach Gary Kubiak acknowledged Monday that the Texans did not expect FS Ed Reed to need hip surgery when they signed him in March.
On March 20, the Texans signed (Ahman Green) Reed to a three-year, $15 million deal with $6 million guaranteed. "We didn't expect it, but it started bothering him," said Kubiak. "That's when we got aggressive in what we needed to do." It's believed owner Bob McNair was the driving force behind the Texans' pursuit of Reed after the club lost Glover Quin and Connor Barwin in free agency. McNair conceded Monday that Reed may not be ready for training camp.

HoustonRaven
05-06-2013, 02:34 PM
Hate to say I told you so but ....

Lurvinator11
05-06-2013, 03:14 PM
Hate to say I told you so but ....

Don't count your eggs before they are hatched....

chenjy9
05-06-2013, 03:42 PM
Hate to say I told you so but ....

You seem to have forgotten that we also drafted a hard hitting safety in the 2nd round. Reed will come back, but either way DJ will benefit from the additional playing time and attention from the coaches.

CloakNNNdagger
05-06-2013, 03:44 PM
That sounds like it was a known issue that wasn't bothering him when we did the physical. Then after we signed him, he started having some pain or something and so we jumped on it aggressively.

sigh

You can be sure that if his hip was bothering him in April, it was bothering him at the end of the season. Whatever pathology was there at the time of surgery was there at the time we signed him.......and at a time that he would have supposedly had a "thorough" evaluation by the medical staff. He had a major hip labrum reconstruction in April 2010..........having had problems for at least 6 months prior to giving into the surgery. His injury required an iliotibial band graft. For those that don’t understand the implication of the use of this graft, it is used to reconstruct large absent/unsalvageable portions of the labrum........meaning that the labrum was destroyed and could not be simply “cleaned up”/trimmed and tacked back down to the underlying structures (which is the most common type of surgery required).


From June 25, 2010:

"They had to go in and reconstruct my whole hip. They took about 6-7 inches from my IT band, replaced my labrum that I tore. They went in in two spots, so I mean it's a slow process. Plus I have other injuries that, you know, really probably had an effect on causing this that I have to pay attention to also. So I'm just taking my time.

"I played the last couple of games with a torn labrum and just messed my hip up worse, you know, going back out there and doing things the way I was able to do things," he said

http://www.masnsports.com/dan_kolko/2010/06/ed-reed-im-at-35-percent-status-for-start-of-season-uncertain.html

It is not a good sign that the same hip required ANY further surgery. Approximately 75% of those returning for arthroscopic labral tear/“revision” result in the findings of additional significant cartilage damage. Keep in mind that studies have found that anywhere from 1 out of 4 to 1 out of 3 of those undergoing major hip labrum reconstruction go on to require hip replacement by 4-5 years following their initial INJURY not surgery.

All we can realistically do at this time is hope for the best.

Rey
05-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Hate to say I told you so but ....

Just a quick browse of your posting history and I only saw one injury related post from you and it was about his neck.


As a matter of fact you were insistent that Reed wasn't signing here. Your last post since this one was about how Reed wasn't signing here.

Who told who so again?

76Texan
05-06-2013, 03:51 PM
Why I only had one caveat: A bonus structure in his contract for games played, for example.

AJ had an escalation in his contract!

TheRealJoker
05-06-2013, 04:32 PM
JJ Watt did pretty well without playing in preseason last year.

Cushing too in his rookie year...

DX-TEX
05-06-2013, 04:46 PM
JJ Watt did pretty well without playing in preseason last year.

Cushing too in his rookie year...

Cushing and JJ were not a 105 years old.

kingtexan
05-06-2013, 07:59 PM
Tony. Boselli.

I stand pat for now

Vance87
05-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Cushing and JJ were not a 105 years old.

Reed looks GREAT for 105, I gotta say.

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 10:05 PM
You can be sure that if his hip was bothering him in April, it was bothering him at the end of the season. Whatever pathology was there at the time of surgery was there at the time we signed him.......and at a time that he would have supposedly had a "thorough" evaluation by the medical staff. He had a major hip labrum reconstruction in April 2010..........having had problems for at least 6 months prior to giving into the surgery. His injury required an iliotibial band graft. For those that don’t understand the implication of the use of this graft, it is used to reconstruct large absent/unsalvageable portions of the labrum........meaning that the labrum was destroyed and could not be simply “cleaned up”/trimmed and tacked back down to the underlying structures (which is the most common type of surgery required).


From June 25, 2010:





http://www.masnsports.com/dan_kolko/2010/06/ed-reed-im-at-35-percent-status-for-start-of-season-uncertain.html

It is not a good sign that the same hip required ANY further surgery. Approximately 75% of those returning for arthroscopic labral tear/“revision” result in the findings of additional significant cartilage damage. Keep in mind that studies have found that anywhere from 1 out of 4 to 1 out of 3 of those undergoing major hip labrum reconstruction go on to require hip replacement by 4-5 years following their initial INJURY not surgery.

All we can realistically do at this time is hope for the best.

It's the other hip..

“He has had this issue on the other side before, so once it started happening, that's when we got aggressive in what we needed to do to get him ready to play this season."


http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...6-ffc772585adf

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 10:06 PM
Texans a 'little concerned' about Ed Reed's hip surgery (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000167099/article/houston-texans-a-little-concerned-about-ed-reeds-surgery?campaign=Twitter_atl)


Did Reed conceal this injury?
Is this an reocuring injury?
Where do the Texans go from here?
Sign another vet?

Reed underwent a lengthy physical when he visited the Texans before agreeing to sign in Houston. This wasn’t an issue that came up then.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans...at-the-latest/

They gave him a lengthy physical. This is something that probably just started bothering him a bit and they wanted to nip it as soon as they could. We're lucky it was minor and not the same hip as 2010.

Dutchrudder
05-07-2013, 12:06 AM
So when do we get to start callling Ed The Six Million Dollar Man?

CloakNNNdagger
05-07-2013, 07:51 AM
It's the other hip..

“He has had this issue on the other side before, so once it started happening, that's when we got aggressive in what we needed to do to get him ready to play this season."


http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...6-ffc772585adf

I read that last night. Most of my previous posts still stand re. the originally injured hip, and a "minor" tear of a contralateral hip (cartilaginous damage). With this confirmation of the new tear being on the contralateral hip, there brings into play the possibility of presence of a classic "triad" which is not uncommonly closely associated with these injuries.........i.e., hip labral tears, rectus abdominis tears, and adductor strains in NFL players have come to be formally coined the “Sports Hip Triad.” There is nothing to be getting relaxed about by the revelation of any additional injuries to Reed's hip, even though it is on the other side. It only affirms progression of an injury history. Yet time will tell what affect it has in terms of short-term and long-term performance.

Playoffs
05-07-2013, 08:21 AM
Beginning to sound like we got taken to the cleaners a bit on this.

One of the benefits of having Reed in the fold was supposed to be his mentoring our young guys. Now it sounds like he won't be around to do that, perhaps until middle of training camp. That's a lot of missed opportunity for "Coach" Reed's contribution.

greekdbag
05-07-2013, 08:26 AM
Beginning to sound like we got taken to the cleaners a bit on this.

One of the benefits of having Reed in the fold was supposed to be his mentoring our young guys. Now it sounds like he won't be around to do that, perhaps until middle of training camp. That's a lot of missed opportunity for "Coach" Reed's contribution.

Getting taken to the cleaners would mean he was out for the year or most of it, including the playoffs. He's not even going to miss much of training camp.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 09:12 AM
HoustonTexans.com reported that Ed Reed will be ready for TC.

Also, both Kubiak and Wade said that Cushing is looking good and ready to go.

BullNation4Life
05-07-2013, 01:13 PM
So when do we get to start callling Ed The Six Million Dollar Man?

This Steve Austin is better...

http://blog.ringoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/stone-cold-steve-austin.jpg


OOOOOoooH Heeeeellll YEAH!!!

EVOLVIST
05-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Just great! We thought we were getting this:


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/EVOLVIST/9f99830a-ad0c-4b1e-b455-330f4e2e84ae_zpsa77f48ab.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/EVOLVIST/media/9f99830a-ad0c-4b1e-b455-330f4e2e84ae_zpsa77f48ab.jpg.html)



But instead we're getting this:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/EVOLVIST/Reed_49_zpsded73576.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/EVOLVIST/media/Reed_49_zpsded73576.jpg.html)

bckey
05-07-2013, 08:37 PM
HoustonTexans.com reported that Ed Reed will be ready for TC.

The Texans are never very truthful when it comes to injuries and how much time a player could miss. It doesn't mean Reed won't be ready for tc but it sure doesn'r mean he will either.

CloakNNNdagger
05-16-2013, 05:11 PM
Earlier I voiced my strong concern over Ed Reed's "minor" surgery......and postoperative length of return to play/performance progression. Remember my emphatic statement that if he had the problem in April, he had the problem during the end of the season.....whether he hid it from the Texans, and the Texans missed it, or they minimized it and hoped he could simply rehab through it.

Dr. First was interviewed on 610 earlier today and had very much the same concerns. (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/could-ed-reed-miss-the-beginning-of-the-regular-season/)

Minimization is easy as seen by statements such as John McClain's on 610 this hour where he stated that it was JUST a "scope." Well, John, full major hip labrum reconstructions using grafts are now routinely performed through the arthroscope.

DocBar
05-16-2013, 08:21 PM
DocBar, from my recollection of our discussions, your surgery did not involve a graft harvested from a remote site. Is my memory faulty?Your memory is spot on, as usual. Mine was simply a clean up job that did wonders. I feel like a 42 year old now. :doot:

Texn4life
05-16-2013, 09:44 PM
Earlier I voiced my strong concern over Ed Reed's "minor" surgery......and postoperative length of return to play/performance progression. Remember my emphatic statement that if he had the problem in April, he had the problem during the end of the season.....whether he hid it from the Texans, and the Texans missed it, or they minimized it and hoped he could simply rehab through it.

Dr. First was interviewed on 610 earlier today and had very much the same concerns. (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/could-ed-reed-miss-the-beginning-of-the-regular-season/)

Minimization is easy as seen by statements such as John McClain's on 610 this hour where he stated that it was JUST a "scope." Well, John, full major hip labrum reconstructions using grafts are now routinely performed through the arthroscope.

Doc, I'm almost afraid to read your posts sometimes. Its like when Dr. James Andrews is mentioned regarding a player. Its almost always bad news. You're the expert here, but I'm just hoping he'll be able to give us 1 good season.

HOU-TEX
05-17-2013, 09:04 AM
Earlier I voiced my strong concern over Ed Reed's "minor" surgery......and postoperative length of return to play/performance progression. Remember my emphatic statement that if he had the problem in April, he had the problem during the end of the season.....whether he hid it from the Texans, and the Texans missed it, or they minimized it and hoped he could simply rehab through it.

Dr. First was interviewed on 610 earlier today and had very much the same concerns. (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/could-ed-reed-miss-the-beginning-of-the-regular-season/)

Minimization is easy as seen by statements such as John McClain's on 610 this hour where he stated that it was JUST a "scope." Well, John, full major hip labrum reconstructions using grafts are now routinely performed through the arthroscope.

I used to feel the same way about scopes until my latest shoulder surgery. Good grief! It took practically a year to get right. I reckon new technology allows docs to do a lot more work with "scopes". I had 4 anchors put in for the labrum tear, labral cyst removed, rotator cuff tear (forgot how many stitches) and a clavicle resection done all by scope.

My 1st surgery on my left shoulder was done back in the 90's. I can't remember what all was done, but before the surgery I used to wake up in the morning with my arm out of socket. Needless to say, I waited waaay too long to get it repaired. After the first 3 dislocations I could put my arm back into socket myself lol. Anywho, the scar after that one wraps from just under my armpit up to the top of the shoulder. Could that have been done by scope these days? I dunno

Playoffs
05-17-2013, 09:11 AM
Why does this song come to mind when I read Dr. CND's posts about Reed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVA1xRrWBuk

b0ng
05-17-2013, 09:15 AM
The unfortunate bit about getting medical opinions on athletes is that the only guys who are really qualified to answer pointed questions about a players health (aka the guys who have actually seen Ed Reed's chart) aren't legally allowed to talk about such things on public places like internet forums or radio.

While I do not doubt the knowledge of CnD or Dr. First, and I myself believe that we won't be seeing Reed during training camp, all of us are basically guessing. Some are more educated guesses than others, but in the end these are guesses that are based off of heresay, rumors and news articles, and not an actual examination of the player themselves.

bckey
05-17-2013, 02:40 PM
Check out this article about Reed from profootballtalk.com. If this ends up keeping Reed out into the season it could get ugly.

Here is an excerpt from the article:

"it’s amazing that more hasn’t been said about Reed’s ability to sign a multi-year deal with the Texans despite a not-insignificant condition about which his new team didn’t know"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/17/ravens-suspected-reed-had-hip-problem-texans-apparently-didnt/

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2013, 01:07 PM
From the 2011 CBA (http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA.pdf) FYI


ARTICLE 44
INJURY GRIEVANCE
Section 1. Definition: An "Injury Grievance" is a claim or complaint that, at the time a
player's NFL Player Contract or Practice Squad Player Contract was terminated by a
Club, the player was physically unable to perform the services required of him by that
contract because of an injury incurred in the performance of his services under that
contract. All time limitations in this Article may be extended by mutual agreement of the
parties.
Section 2. Filing: Any player and/or the NFLP A must present an Injury Grievance in
writing to a Club, with a copy to the Management Council, within twenty-five (25) days
from the date it became known or should have become known to the player that his
contract had been terminated. The grievance will set forth the approximate date of the
alleged injury and its general nature. If a grievance is ftled by a player without the involvement
of the NFLP A, the Management Council will prompdy send copies of the
grievance and the answer to the NFLP A.
Section 3. Answer:
(a) The Club to which an Injury Grievance has been presented will answer in
writing within ten (1 0) days. If the answer contains a denial of the claim, the general
grounds for such denial will be set forth. The answer may raise any special defense, including
but not limited to the following:
(1) That the player did not pass the physical examination administered by the
Club physician at the beginning of the preseason training camp for the year in question.
This defense will not be available if: (i) the Player was injured during offseason workouts
at the club facility under the direction of a club official prior to not passing the physical
examination or (ii) the player participated in any team drills following his physical examination
or in any preseason or regular season game; provided, however, that the Club
physician may require the player to undergo certain exercises or activities, not team drills,
to determine whether the player will pass the physical examination;
(2) That the player failed to make full and complete disclosure of his known
physical or mental condition when questioned during a physical examination by the
Club;
(3) That the player's injury occurred prior to the physical examination and
the player knowingly executed a waiver or release prior to the physical examination or his
commencement of practice for the season in question which specifically pertained to
such prior injury;
(4) That the player's injury arose solely from a non-football-related cause
subsequent to the physical examination;
(5) That subsequent to the physical examination the player suffered no new
football-related injury;
(6) That subsequent to the physical examination the player suffered no football-
related aggravation of a prior injury reducing his physical capacity below the level

bckey
05-18-2013, 02:15 PM
If Reed's hip turns out to be worse than they are saying and it keeps him out an significant amount of regular season play the Texans got screwed twice. By Reed not disclosing (if he knew) the injury it prevented the Texans from switching to and signing Charles Woodson. So the Texans would get an injured player (screwed once) which prevented them from pursuing another option, Charles Woodson. (screwed twice) If Reed plays this season then this will be much ado about nothing.

Doc, according to the portion of the cba you posted is it too late now for a grievance to be filed? Or:

2- could one have been filed and we just don't know about it Or:

3-The Texans decided it isn't worth it and they will just take their chances that Reed will be ready to go for the season.

SW H-TOWN
05-18-2013, 02:54 PM
Well on the bright side at least it is not as bad as Gronk, guy is falling apart.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/17/source-gronkowski-probably-needs-back-surgery/related/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/05/16/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-scheduled-surgery-forearm/2192763/

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2013, 03:02 PM
If Reed's hip turns out to be worse than they are saying and it keeps him out an significant amount of regular season play the Texans got screwed twice. By Reed not disclosing (if he knew) the injury it prevented the Texans from switching to and signing Charles Woodson. So the Texans would get an injured player (screwed once) which prevented them from pursuing another option, Charles Woodson. (screwed twice) If Reed plays this season then this will be much ado about nothing.

Doc, according to the portion of the cba you posted is it too late now for a grievance to be filed? Or:

2- could one have been filed and we just don't know about it Or:

3-The Texans decided it isn't worth it and they will just take their chances that Reed will be ready to go for the season.

I don't know that it would be "too late," but I'm not sure that if filed now it would cover monies already paid out to Reed. In that case, it might not be productive to do so, at this time at least. I'd have to defer the definitive answer to that.

bckey
05-18-2013, 03:37 PM
I don't know that it would be "too late," but I'm not sure that if filed now it would cover monies already paid out to Reed. In that case, it might not be productive to do so, at this time at least. I'd have to defer the definitive answer to that.

This is what I was thinking. Hopefully Reed will heal up fast and be ready to play football this season and none of this will matter.

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2013, 03:48 PM
Well on the bright side at least it is not as bad as Gronk, guy is falling apart.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/17/source-gronkowski-probably-needs-back-surgery/related/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/05/16/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-scheduled-surgery-forearm/2192763/

At least it wasn't due to Gronkowski possibly hiding anything.

His 4th arm surgery would be to change out the hardware, which would have been contaminated by his previously treated pus draining infection. However, if the bone infection (osteomyelitis) accounting for the last surgery and antibiotics have not entirely eradicated the infection, they will have to remove part of the infected bone..........wait until the infection is totally gone (and hopefully also delaying placing a new set of hardware [that can again be contaminated by the continuing infection] after removing the existing hardware.......unlike what was done last surgery).........then a 5th surgery to possibly bone graft support the missing portion of bone (if large enough) + or - supportive hardware again (which at one point in time further in the future would then require a 6th surgery for removal of new hardware)...........It all depends on what they find during the 4th arm surgery infection-wise.

Furthermore, if there are any residual signs of infection in the arm, they will not be proceeding with the back surgery. His back surgery will be a minimally invasive disc procedure. Sounds quick and easy, but the recovery is still at least ~5 months. For those that don't remember, he had similar minimally invasive back disc (microdiscectomy) surgery in 2009 and missed the entire season.

I don't envy Gronk.

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2013, 03:49 PM
This is what I was thinking. Hopefully Reed will heal up fast and be ready to play football this season and none of this will matter.

I'm sure that we are ALL hoping that.

SW H-TOWN
05-18-2013, 04:06 PM
Well on the bright side at least it is not as bad as Gronk, guy is falling apart.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/17/source-gronkowski-probably-needs-back-surgery/related/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/05/16/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-scheduled-surgery-forearm/2192763/

At least it wasn't due to Gronkowski possibly hiding anything.

His 4th arm surgery would be to change out the hardware, which would have been contaminated by his previously treated pus draining infection. However, if the bone infection (osteomyelitis) accounting for the last surgery and antibiotics have not entirely eradicated the infection, they will have to remove part of the infected bone..........wait until the infection is totally gone (and hopefully also delaying placing a new set of hardware [that can again be contaminated by the continuing infection] after removing the existing hardware.......unlike what was done last surgery).........then a 5th surgery to possibly bone graft support the missing portion of bone (if large enough) + or - supportive hardware again (which at one point in time further in the future would then require a 6th surgery for removal of new hardware)...........It all depends on what they find during the 4th arm surgery infection-wise.

Furthermore, if there are any residual signs of infection in the arm, they will not be proceeding with the back surgery. His back surgery will be a minimally invasive disc procedure. Sounds quick and easy, but the recovery is still at least ~5 months. For those that don't remember, he had similar minimally invasive back disc (microdiscectomy) surgery in 2009 and missed the entire season.

I don't envy Gronk.


Yea, if Ed Reed did not mention his problem or the Texans knew about the injury and gave him that kind of contract...either way it's bad IMO.

As for Gronk, he does not seem to heal like Adrian Peterson to say the least.

thunderkyss
05-19-2013, 08:53 AM
It is what it is. Doesn't really make sense to dole on it now.

He's either going to play or he won't. If he plays, great. I think he can help out that side of the ball tremendously. More-so for his approach, demeanor, savvy, and what not.

If he doesn't play, Bob is out a bit of money, we'll probably carry about $5M of dead money for the next three years. Problem yes. . Insurmountable, no.

So let's cross our fingers & hope for the best.

bckey
05-19-2013, 11:59 AM
It is what it is. Doesn't really make sense to dole on it now.

He's either going to play or he won't. If he plays, great. I think he can help out that side of the ball tremendously. More-so for his approach, demeanor, savvy, and what not.

If he doesn't play, Bob is out a bit of money, we'll probably carry about $5M of dead money for the next three years. Problem yes. . Insurmountable, no.

So let's cross our fingers & hope for the best.

I think IF Ed Reed knew then to me that doesn't say very good things about his character. Of course in this day and age I'm sure there are many that would defend his actions. Its a selfish world with rapidly eroding morals.

And yes TK I think you could say that there isn't even 1 Texan fan not hoping for the best.

badboy
05-20-2013, 03:01 PM
The Collective Bargaining Agreement ratified by the NFLPA in 2011 has several sections that place the burden on the player. The most applicable is under Article 44, Injury Grievance. In Section 3 (a) (2), one of the grounds for denial of a grievance is “That the player failed to make full and complete disclosure of his known physical or mental condition when questioned during a physical examination by the Club.”

Under this protection, the Texans could conceivably release Reed from his contract due to the injury. The club might even recoup the deferred portion of his signing bonus. This is unlikely to happen, and any recent cases where this has occurred have been difficult to identify.

In all probability, the former Raven will be on the roster of the 2013 Houston Texans—although it may take four to six months to recover from the surgery, according to Dr. First.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1643838-houston-texans-who-is-to-blame-for-not-uncovering-ed-reeds-injury?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=houston-texans

Insideop
05-20-2013, 03:19 PM
Saw this article in the chron today; http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/05/ed-reed-rehabbing-in-colorado-as-otas-begin/ and there were several things that caught my eye.

First was this bit of good news about Sharpton;
Though defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said inside linebacker Darryl Sharpton wasn’t cleared two weeks ago, Sharpton was cleared in time for today’s practice, in which he participated fully.

Second was this quote from Kubes about Brooks Reed;
“Brooks is repping inside, so that lets (draft picks) Trevardo (Williams) and Sam (Montgomery) work with the first and second group, and (Bryan) Braman rep with the first group,” Kubiak said. “Brooks can always move. … Brooks can play outside tomorrow.”

Rey
05-20-2013, 03:24 PM
So Braman was the starting OLB today?

Insideop
05-20-2013, 03:57 PM
So Braman was the starting OLB today?

Sure sounds like it.

drs23
05-20-2013, 04:10 PM
So Braman was the starting OLB today?

That's what it sounds like Rey. As many have questioned here prior and the consensus seemed to be that he wasn't ready yet...pass recognition, run stopping ability and the such. Great to hear that Wade seems like he's up to speed enough to at least look at running with the ones. One more body to keep Brooks on the inside though the team storyline has poo-pooed it from day one.

I really liked the tweet about Brooks preferring to play inside. I think he'll be a hoss beside #56!

And poof, there goes the ILB concerns!

steelbtexan
05-20-2013, 09:20 PM
The unfortunate bit about getting medical opinions on athletes is that the only guys who are really qualified to answer pointed questions about a players health (aka the guys who have actually seen Ed Reed's chart) aren't legally allowed to talk about such things on public places like internet forums or radio.

While I do not doubt the knowledge of CnD or Dr. First, and I myself believe that we won't be seeing Reed during training camp, all of us are basically guessing. Some are more educated guesses than others, but in the end these are guesses that are based off of heresay, rumors and news articles, and not an actual examination of the player themselves.

Guesses made by Dr. First and CND are educated guesses that are backed up by experience. I wouldn't question their educated guesses.

bckey
05-21-2013, 08:32 PM
A new article out today about electronic medical records reporting for players. Of course the article brings up the Ed Reed situation. Here is an excerpt:


Eight teams, including the New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers and San Francisco 49ers, are participating in the first stage of what the league calls "electronic medical records" reporting starting this offseason. EMR will be a comprehensive database for information on player injuries that a league source said will help eliminate troubling disclosures after an acquisition such as the one brought up in the Reed case.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--source--nfl-teams-implementing-electronic-medical-records-system-for-protection-from-undisclosed-injuries-215808776.html

CloakNNNdagger
05-22-2013, 01:02 PM
FWIW, recent release from Scurfield at HT.Com:

Free safety Ed Reed has not been at Texans OTAs while recovering from hip surgery, but the Texans expect him to be ready for the start of the regular season.

Reed had minor surgery in late April, about a month after signing with the Texans from the Baltimore Ravens. The nine-time Pro Bowler is expected to leave Colorado, where he had the surgery, later this week.

“We know what we know,” Texans coach Gary Kubiak said on Tuesday. “He had the surgery. Everything went well. He went through the process of staying in Colorado, which was part of the deal, part of the rehab process. Now, he’s supposed to be turned loose this week. Everything that we know is on schedule and our expectations are to look at camp at some point and be ready to go at the opening of the season.”

Indeed, "We know what we know."

Blake
05-22-2013, 01:22 PM
FWIW, recent release from Scurfield at HT.Com:

Indeed, "We know what we know."

lol So basically shut up about it.